Cd Swag With Explicit Lyrics, Is This Ok?

[MrsTuffPaws]

I was thinking of burning a few mix albums onto CD for geocaching swag, with a label that clearly indicates "Parental Advisory, Explicit Lyrics." Is this OK? I don't want to upset people.

[uber_bike_geek]

I would say no, some kids go caching alone/with friends (although I'd hope that they're old enough and that they've got enough sense to know what their parents will let them have (or not)...) and if they come home with CDs with explicit lyrics and their parents don't like it, nasty rumors about geocaching might start to spread...

Also... unless you have permission, you shouldn't be burning mix CDs (especially for distribution)

 

Just my $0.02 (USD)

 

Happy Caching

Jeff

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I was thinking of burning a few mix albums onto CD for geocaching swag, with a label that clearly indicates "Parental Advisory, Explicit Lyrics." Is this OK? I don't want to upset people.

Sounds like those are copyrighted works. It is illegal to make copies for distribution, even if you're not charging anything for them.

 

If this is your own band or you have permission to make copies, then that's ok. However, I'd stay away from non-family-friendly music. It may have its place in this world, but that place isn't anywhere near a geocache.

[+Team Cotati]

Let's make this very simple: NO

[+carleenp]

If the songs are copyrighted works of others that are not freely distibuted in the public domain, I say no on that level alone. As for explicit lyrics, I think it could upset some people since many cache with children.

 

If you want to leave CDs, I suggest doing mixes of stuff that are freely distributed in the public domain. There is quite a bit of that out there. I left some CD's of a favorite local band once (with their permission, since they also sell the CDs). Many unsigned bands freely distibute some good music in order to get more people to hear it. I would avoid explicit lyrics and attach a label stating that the works are public domain or distributed with permission.

[+Team Cotati]

I find it more than interesting that the inclusion of children seems to alter people's view of the acceptability of this stuff. Amazing.

 

In my mind, it just makes it slightly less objectionable and disgusting. But still totally inappropriate...copyrighted or not.

Edited April 30, 2005 by Team cotati697

[+sTeamTraen]

I find it more than interesting that the inclusion of children seems to alter people's view of the acceptability of this stuff. Amazing.

 

In my mind, it just makes it slightly less objectionable and disgusting. But still totally inappropriate...copyrighted or not.

Those "Parental Advisory: Explicit Lyrics" stickers are just badges of pride for kids. You can buy 4ftx3ft posters just of the sticker.

 

My objection to this would be much more on the copyright level. It's not (quite) the same as porn or knives, in that the kids have to take the CDs home to play them, and presumably their parents have some say in what they listen to. (And if the parents don't have a say, well, chances are the kids aren't listening to Barney's greatest hits anyway.)

 

That said, from the point of view of the game, it's clearly no on both counts.

[JohnX]

I find the argument that you should not leave cd's with explicit lyrics because "children may find them" totally absurd. Any child old enough to use a gps, travel to a cache location and find it already has access to more music than you can imagine. Also, consider even signing onto the internet to search for a cache on www.geocaching.com. There is more adult only content just clicks away than you would like to know about. For instance, I once typed in what I thought was the address www.wilwheaton.net, the URL for a "celebrity" geocacher. Either I spelled something wrong or typed in .com or .org and I was sent to a page with pictures so disgusting I would not even call them pornography.

 

I place the responsibility for what young children find on the parents. Let your child on the internet unsupervised and you give them free access to the contents of thousands of porn shops. There are numbers of internet radio stations where a child can listen to all the explicit lyrics right on a computer in their own homes. If your let your chid take your GPS and travel alone to caches then there is a bigger problem than copied cds with explicit lyrics in a cache.

[+carleenp]

I find it more than interesting that the inclusion of children seems to alter people's view of the acceptability of this stuff. Amazing.

 

In my mind, it just makes it slightly less objectionable and disgusting. But still totally inappropriate...copyrighted or not.

I'm confused. Are you saying that people should or should not consider the possible presence of children at caches when choosing cache items? I read your comment as expressing surprise at that, but the second line seemed opposite???? Or did you mean adults might find explicit lyrics objectional too? That is certainly true. They could.

 

Anyway, I aim for things that are family friendly even if some things might be allowed by the guidelines. I figure why cause issues? So I might leave say a G rated or even PG rated movie in a cache (new, not a pirated thing), but not an R rated one. I view explicit lyrics the same. If I wanted to put public domain, or a non-pirated CD in a cache, well, I might know of some good songs with explicit lyrics, but I would leave those out. There are plenty of good songs out there that do not risk offending anyone. I see no point in risking offending people with cache items. This is supposed to be a fun game for everyone.

[+Team Cotati]

I find it more than interesting that the inclusion of children seems to alter people's view of the acceptability of this stuff. Amazing.

 

In my mind, it just makes it slightly less objectionable and disgusting. But still totally inappropriate...copyrighted or not.

I'm confused. Are you saying that people should or should not consider the possible presence of children at caches when choosing cache items? I read your comment as expressing surprise at that, but the second line seemed opposite???? Or did you mean adults might find explicit lyrics objectional too? That is certainly true. They could.

 

Anyway, I aim for things that are family friendly even if some things might be allowed by the guidelines. I figure why cause issues? So I might leave say a G rated or even PG rated movie in a cache (new, not a pirated thing), but not an R rated one. I view explicit lyrics the same. If I wanted to put public domain, or a non-pirated CD in a cache, well, I might know of some good songs with explicit lyrics, but I would leave those out. There are plenty of good songs out there that do not risk offending anyone. I see no point in risking offending people with cache items. This is supposed to be a fun game for everyone.

What I am saying is that such caches as the ones being 'discussed' herein are simply inappropriate on their own merits. The potential audience can only make them worse.

 

Could I ask what you thought that my phrase "totally inappropriate" was trying to communicate? And this: "Let's make this very simple: NO" ?

 

I hope that this helps.

Edited April 30, 2005 by Team cotati697

[+Kai Team]

What I am saying is that such caches as the ones being 'discussed' herein are simply inappropriate on their own merits. The potential audience can only make them worse.

 

I hope that this helps.

I agree with everyone else. CD's with explicit lyrics are inappropriate, regardless of the audience. There's no need to put those songs on a CD you're leaving in a cache, so why risk offending people (adults or kids)?

 

Beyond that, in New York State Parks, which now require a permit to place a cache, "adult" material in a cache can result in the permit being revoked. Unless you know the regulations that apply to the cache where you're leaving the CD, you could be causing the cache owner a lot of grief.

[+carleenp]

What I am saying is that such caches as the ones being 'discussed' herein are simply inappropriate on their own merits. The potential audience can only make them worse.

 

Could I ask what you thought that my phrase "totally inappropriate" was trying to communicate? And this: "Let's make this very simple: NO" ?

 

I hope that this helps.

I agree with you.

 

I was confused because your first line seemed to express surprise that the presence of children would be a factor, but your other comments made clear you did not think the item was appropriate. I figured you meant that there was more to it than the potential audience, but was not sure and was curious.

[+Team Cotati]

"Beyond that, in New York State Parks, which now require a permit to place a cache". Now there's a concept that I can get behind. Perfect.

[+briansnat]

I find the argument that you should not leave cd's with explicit lyrics because "children may find them " totally absurd.

 

I agree.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I find the argument that you should not leave cd's with explicit lyrics because "children may find them" totally absurd. Any child old enough to use a gps, travel to a cache location and find it already has access to more music than you can imagine. <snip>

What about leaving knives or alcohol in caches? Surely a kid that's old enough to go caching already has his own stash of booze and a few knives.

[+Team Cotati]

I find the argument that you should not leave cd's with explicit lyrics because "children may find them" totally absurd. Any child old enough to use a gps, travel to a cache location and find it already has access to more music than you can imagine. <snip>

What about leaving knives or alcohol in caches? Surely a kid that's old enough to go caching already has his own stash of booze and a few knives.

Yeah, that's a great idea. By the way, how old DOES a kid need to be before he goes cache hunting?

Edited April 30, 2005 by Team cotati697

[+Team Cotati]

I find the argument that you should not leave cd's with explicit lyrics because "children may find them " totally absurd.

 

I agree.

Carleen?

[JohnX]

I find the argument that you should not leave cd's with explicit lyrics because "children may find them" totally absurd. Any child old enough to use a gps, travel to a cache location and find it already has access to more music than you can imagine. <snip>

What about leaving knives or alcohol in caches? Surely a kid that's old enough to go caching already has his own stash of booze and a few knives.

I said nothing about knives or alcohol in my post, but I'll bite anyway.

 

Any child who can open a kitchen drawer has access to sharp knives. Yes, the child does have access to a stash of knives. Good point you made.

 

Also, any child who lives in a home where alcohol is not locked away has access to a stash of liquor. Another excellent point you made.

 

Oops, as I was typing this, I realized your use of the "rolling eye smiley" was a hint that your reply was subtle sarcasm. I almost ended up looking like I respond to posts without thinking.

[+briansnat]

I find the argument that you should not leave cd's with explicit lyrics because "children may find them" totally absurd. Any child old enough to use a gps, travel to a cache location and find it already has access to more music than you can imagine. <snip>

What about leaving knives or alcohol in caches? Surely a kid that's old enough to go caching already has his own stash of booze and a few knives.

Its illegal for a kid to have booze. Its not illegal for them to listen to the Beastie Boys.

[+Team Cotati]

I find the argument that you should not leave cd's with explicit lyrics because "children may find them" totally absurd. Any child old enough to use a gps, travel to a cache location and find it already has access to more music than you can imagine. <snip>

What about leaving knives or alcohol in caches? Surely a kid that's old enough to go caching already has his own stash of booze and a few knives.

Its illegal for a kid to have booze. Its not illegal for them to listen to the Beastie Boys.

If it ain't illegal.............do it 'til it feels good.

Edited April 30, 2005 by Team cotati697

[Golden_Spike]

It would make my day to find a decent knife or some booze in a cache! I dunno if i'd drink the booze i found in a cache but the bottle could look cool on my cache item shelf or something.

 

I think eliminating these "adult" items (knives especially, the booze is still a little far fetched) is part of the reason that lots of people dont trade. Besides the "banned" items there are plenty of cool things that would be of interest to adults, but trading seems to be so child oriented. After finding a hundred caches or so you probably have more mctoys than you know what to do with as well as one of everything from the dollar store that can fit inside an ammo box. Sure, its great to have some items "for the kids", but if there were more things of interest to adults, who probably do the majority of the caching anyway, i think people would trade a lot more.

 

As far as burned cds with explicit lyrics go i bet kids hear worse lyrics in the bus on the way to school, and as long as you label it then parents wont (or at least shouldnt) give it to their 4 year olds to put in their Fisher-Price cd players. I suppose it might not be a good idea because of the copyright, but if i found a burned cd with a mix of some quality music in a cache it would be the first thing i'd take. except for the booze maybe...

[+carleenp]

I find the argument that you should not leave cd's with explicit lyrics because "children may find them " totally absurd.

 

I agree.

Carleen?

I don't find it absurd because as I said why go there and cause angst? I have some songs that I like with explicit lyrics, but I won't impose them on others as part of a fun game that is supposed to be family friendly. Nobody will be harmed by me not leaving them. Those who want to find them, regardless of age, can find them outside of caching if they so desire. I like angst avoidance. I would hate to have a person write to me complaining about my choice in cache items, especially if they could be right. It is not like finding cool family friendly things to leave is difficult.

[JohnX]

I don't find it absurd because as I said why go there and cause angst? I have some songs that I like with explicit lyrics, but I won't impose them on others as part of a fun game that is supposed to be family friendly. Nobody will be harmed by me not leaving them. Those who want to find them, regardless of age, can find them outside of caching if they so desire. I like angst avoidance. I would hate to have a person write to me complaining about my choice in cache items, especially if they could be right. It is not like finding cool family friendly things to leave is difficult.

I don't find it absurd because as I said why go there and cause angst?

If you read the forums the most angst causing items seem to be McToys and golf balls. People complain that pamphlets they don't like ruin the whole cache experience for them. It's not the object that causes the angst, it's that a cacher uses the "angst excuse" in an attempt to control what other people do.

 

Nobody will be harmed by me not leaving them.

Nobody is harmed by you leaving them either.

 

I have some songs that I like with explicit lyrics, but I won't impose them on others as part of a fun game that is supposed to be family friendly.

Sorry, you are not imposing the music on anyone, unless your cache is electronically rigged to play the song when the cache is opened. If someone takes a CD out of a cache and listens to it then they are an active participant in the adventure and assume the risk of being offended.

 

Those who want to find them, regardless of age, can find them outside of caching if they so desire.

Disregarding handmade signature items, you can find any item in a cache outside of caching, usually of better quality and not damp and musty.

 

It is not like finding cool family friendly things to leave is difficult.

Please list a few.

Edited May 1, 2005 by JohnX

[+briansnat]

I've left many CDs in caches over the years and to be honest I never checked the label for warnings about lyrics. It never even crossed my mind to do so. Probably because warnings are not a factor when I buy a CD or listen to music.

 

Looking back, I'm pretty sure the singer dropped the "F word" in one of the songs on one CD. The person who traded it out was very grateful, as the artist was a favorite of his and he didn't have that particular CD. If someone had complained to me about the CD I would have told him not to bother listening to it if it offended him.

 

Putting myself in the place of a parent with a young child (as I once was), if we were to encounter a CD like that, I'd just tell my child that it wasn't appropriate for her and have her select something else (and if I liked the artist I'd trade it out for my collection).

[The Band of Brothers]

I'd have to say flat out NO. No excuses, it's a bad idea

[+pwcorg]

I find the argument that you should not leave cd's with explicit lyrics because "children may find them" totally absurd. Any child old enough to use a gps, travel to a cache location and find it already has access to more music than you can imagine. Also, consider even signing onto the internet to search for a cache on www.geocaching.com. There is more adult only content just clicks away than you would like to know about. For instance, I once typed in what I thought was the address www.wilwheaton.net, the URL for a "celebrity" geocacher. Either I spelled something wrong or typed in .com or .org and I was sent to a page with pictures so disgusting I would not even call them pornography.

 

I place the responsibility for what young children find on the parents. Let your child on the internet unsupervised and you give them free access to the contents of thousands of porn shops. There are numbers of internet radio stations where a child can listen to all the explicit lyrics right on a computer in their own homes. If your let your chid take your GPS and travel alone to caches then there is a bigger problem than copied cds with explicit lyrics in a cache.

I agree. Let GC.com manage the caches and make the parents manage the children.

[+Renegade Knight]

I was thinking of burning a few mix albums onto CD for geocaching swag, with a label that clearly indicates "Parental Advisory, Explicit Lyrics."  Is this OK?  I don't want to upset people.

I'm late on this issue, but here are my two cents anyway.

 

1) Burning and leaving copyrighted CD's is a bad idea. Leaving the originals or uncopryright (or other legit permission) is ok.

 

2) If a 10 Year old can buy a CD at a CD store with Explicit lyrics then you are good to go in that aspect. If not, better pass. It other words follow your local laws about what children can have access too.

Edited May 2, 2005 by Renegade Knight

[+carleenp]

I was thinking of burning a few mix albums onto CD for geocaching swag, with a label that clearly indicates "Parental Advisory, Explicit Lyrics."  Is this OK?  I don't want to upset people.

I'm late on this issue, but here are my two cents anyway.

 

1) Burning and leaving copyrighted CD's is a bad idea. Leaving the originals or uncopryright (or other legit permission) is ok.

 

2) If a 10 Year old can buy a CD at a CD store with Explicit lyrics then you are good to go in that aspect. If not, better pass. It other words follow your local laws about what children can have access too.

I think in the end that I will just sign on to RK's comment. I gave my opinions and respect differing ones, but don't care to heavily debate the issue since I only posted originally to give a view on a question. I don't care to get stuck in a debate over it. I'm not the debating sort of person. The rest of you happily debate away though.

[+Jeep_Dog]

I find the argument that you should not leave cd's with explicit lyrics because "children may find them" totally absurd. Any child old enough to use a gps, travel to a cache location and find it already has access to more music than you can imagine.

The OP stated a "burned" disk. Now, the OP's idea is bad based on that alone, as Carleen already pointed out in a non-angst and quite friendly sort of way.

 

The argument is quite plausible. You assume all kids that make it to caches do so on their own, and this type of kids can get access to any music they want. This is not the case. Many kids get to caches along with their caching parents.

 

Alas! You point out it is a parental duty to safeguard children from such material if we believe it is not appropriate for them. I agree....

 

However, given that there is no warning label on the disk preventing a good parent from knowing what is on the disk. I apologize, but I do not know every explicit lyric group out there. Also, given even Bluegrass has some weird names for groups, there's no knowing what type of music is on the disk. If the disk was burned, I'd throw it in just to make sure it wasn't a perfectly legal home-recording (wow, that would be a cool signature item!), and normally I'd do so without kids around... then again, sometimes 2 year olds can be, well, two year olds, and I can easily see some parents throwing in the disk in the car if their toddler screamed loud enough...

[+Jeep_Dog]

I don't care to get stuck in a debate over it. I'm not the debating sort of person. The rest of you happily debate away though.

Alas, the Queen of Peace, slayer of Ansgt. Listen to her wise words.

 

Besides, debates are best saved for the courtroom.

[+DaveA]

My opinion is that the burned CD is fine unless you are buring copyrighted material which most certainly can cause a land manager a 'straw that broke the camel's back' experience. Depending on the area you cache in this may or may not be an issue. I can't even fathom anyone where I live caring at all about caching. Some states seem to be uptight about it though, at least from what I read here.

 

Having said that I don't think the explicit lyrics are an issue. Of course as you can read in this thread there are many who disagree.

 

I think the idea that a kid caching by themselves or without parents is some innocent that must be protected from naughty words is somewhat amusing. Parents/adults living in denial comes to mind.

 

Many cachers feel that every cache should be a kid or family friendly experience. Other cachers have a 'screw the kids' they are the parent's responsibilty attitude. I fall into the latter category although I would never intentionally *try* to offend someone or 'corrupt' a kid. I simply don't give the issue much thought.

 

Ultimately there are rules on what you can place in a cache that you list on this site, but there are no rules regarding what you may place into an existing cache nor can there be because there is no enforcement mechanism.

 

So, make up your own mind and do as you will. If you wish to avoid the potential of offending someone then leave something kid friendly like a Mc Toy. Oh, wait. Those offend some as well.

 

The moral of the story as far as I am concerned is if you come to this forum and ask "is this OK" you will get a lot of 'no' answers regardless of the question.

[+briansnat]

The moral of the story as far as I am concerned is if you come to this forum and ask "is this OK" you will get a lot of 'no' answers regardless of the question.

 

Yep, some trade items that have caused debate in the forums:

 

Pocket knives

multi tools

P37 can openers

laser pointers

lighters

batteries

CDs with certain lyrics

religious items

political bumper stickers

water

bottles of bubbles

McToys

waterproof matches

business cards

AOL CDs

golf balls

Wheresgeorge dollars

soap

crayons

 

So it goes to show ya, there is always someone out there who has a problem with something.

[vfrpilot]

I would say no, some kids go caching alone/with friends (although I'd hope that they're old enough and that they've got enough sense to know what their parents will let them have (or not)...)

 

• they don't

 

• they won't

 

Why do they call it common sense? Becasue it isn't common

 

just my opinion

[+slapshot52]

I guess you have to let your conscious be your guide; I’m against censoring what goes into caches or any other part of my life. It is a slippery slope. If you are offended by religious tracks or cds with language that may not be suitable for everyone I would just ask that you label that content so that people who want to avoid it can do so. I liked the CS Lewis (a conservative Christian author by the way) quote that is part of Briansnat’s signature line so much that copied it and I believe that it applies to many of the things discussed here.

 

I think we need to be careful on things that are dangerous such as sharp edges and flammables, but if someone wants to leave a message with their trade then that’s part of the openness of the community. I work for an intellectual property company, so I’m very against leaving pirated copyrighted material in a cache or anywhere else. That is not a matter of opinion or sensibilities about the nature of the content; it’s just illegal. If find things that are objectionable to me in a cache I just leave them for someone else who might be interested, sign the log and move on.

[+sbell111]

... I’m against censoring what goes into caches or any other part of my life. ...

While I understand what you are trying to say, and I agree with you to some extent. This is not a freedom of speech issue nor was the question posed as one. As I read it, the OP merely asked what others would think if he put a cd with explicit lirics in a cache.

 

He certainly got enough opinions to allow him to gauge these feelings.

 

That being said, as I get older, I've noticed that some 'artists' think that they are on the cutting edge by pushing the explicit envelope. IMO, this is done as a mask for little actual lyrical ability.

[+Maclir]

So, just what are "explicit lyrics"? Who remembers "Snoopy vs the Red Barron" from the 1960s - "the Bloody Red Barron" was bleeped out. When I was a teenager, I several albums I had contained questionable lyrics (who remembers Jethro Tull?). Did it turn me into a sick and twisted individual?

 

Personally, there is far more sickening stuff in terms of violence on the TV every night that worries me more than a couple of racy songs on a cd.

[+PlasteredDragon]

On the matter of distributing copyrighted material, that's easy... NO.

 

On the explicit lyrics business... I think the issue is not so much that children will find it as it is that hypersensitive parents will find it and overreact.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Did it turn me into a sick and twisted individual?...

Is that a trick question?

Edited May 4, 2005 by Renegade Knight

[+briansnat]

If find things that are objectionable to me in a cache I just leave them for someone else who might be interested, sign the log and move on.

 

I wish more people had that attitude. We really don't need a bunch of self appointed "Commissioners of Cache Decency" running around out there cleansing our caches.

Edited May 4, 2005 by briansnat

[+suzylou]

I've been very interested reading this thread by how many people just say "don't put in copied CDs, it's illegal".

 

Now, I'm not going to argue with that - yep, it's illegal. But the strength of feeling in here that you shouldn't do it seems very different from the opinions/actions amongst my peers both in "real life" and other parts of the internet.

 

If I saw a CD in a cache it's probably the first thing I would take - copied or not. Similarly, I have put copied CDs in caches - not direct rips of albums but rather mixes of a certain style or a certain artist that I like. I'm hoping with that to introduce people to music that then if they like it, they might go out and buy. If they don't like it, they can pass the CD along.

 

Am I really alone in the geocaching world in thinking (strict legality aside) that this shouldn't be a big deal?

 

And to stay at least a little on topic - nothing wrong with putting in explicit lyrics but at least label the CD as such. Parents out caching with their kids should be responsible for what they pick up, if they consider it inappropriate, don't take it! :>

[+miles58]

In today's homophobic world I wonder could Dylan get away with Desolation Row?

 

"One hand is tied to the tightrope walker, and the other is in his pants"

 

If you have a kid who listens to Dylan what earthly difference could it possibly make for you to try to censor what s/he saw and heard?

 

If you spend your life looking under rocks you're bound to find strange things. Isn't that *WHY* we do this?

[+Team Perks]

On the explicit lyrics business... I think the issue is not so much that children will find it as it is that hypersensitive parents will find it and overreact.

I agree. It's gonna bother the parents more than the kids. The newer parents that I know trend toward being absurdly overprotective these days.

 

Honestly. Any kid capable of using a GPS to find a cache on their own, without ANY sort of parental supervision, has already heard more curse words than the parents are willing to admit.

 

Any trade item has the potential to be offensive to someone, somewhere.

[+briansnat]

In today's homophobic world ...

 

[+miles58]

Honestly. Any kid capable of using a GPS to find a cache on their own, without ANY sort of parental supervision, has already heard more curse words than the parents are willing to admit.

 

And if that kid has tried to log his finds on Sunday night he's learned to use them context appropriate.