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Verifying Finds


Kit Fox
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After reading the thread about signing the log to claim a find, I decided to verify a find from a new cacher who didn't sign the log.

 

Background story:

 

One of my newer caches was found recently, by a new cacher. I happened to be .1 miles away, waiting for a dentist appointment. I found the cache and was looking at the all the logs. the new cacher's log was nowhere to be found.

 

I emailed him the following:

 

 

Hi,

 

I noticed that you logged one of my caches (name ommitted). I happened to be in the area today, so I paid a visit to the cache.

 

I checked on the condition of the log, and didn't see your signature anywhere. How did you log this cache as a find, without a signature, on the cache logbook?

 

If your adamant that you did find the cache, describe the cache container for me.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Bill,

 

This is the cacher's response:

 

Sorry, I had no pen with me and that fake PINECONE had no pen in it...so how is that for ya....If you want to be an a$%^≤ then just delete it, I really don't give a s%^t, it's just a

game...some people!!

 

 

Ever had this happen to you :laughing:

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What a jerk. He should have thanked you for being a responsible enough cache owner to check up on it. Second.. a fake pinecone!? That twirp outta be thankful (not only for a cache to find, but) for the awesome camo job. Any moron can throw a 35mm micro in a bush.

 

Screw that cacher. He's either a jerk or a victim of a bad day.

 

(or She)

Edited by Marcie/Eric
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I found a local cache which had been last logged online by a group of 4-digit cachers. When I read through the logbook, none of their names were there.

 

I emailed all of them, very politely asking about the apparent discrepency.

 

The first response I got was somewhat curt, but not rude, asking me how he's supposed to remember which caches he found, especially given the several months that had passed.

 

Then I got responses from a couple of the others admitting that they'd made a clerical error when keeping track of their finds.

 

Of the five (I think) cachers, three of them changed their log to a note and altered the text to explain that they mistakenly logged the cache. I even got a couple of emails from them thanking me for alerting them of the error.

 

I thought that was reasonable. The response you got from that cacher was not reasonable. Some people.

 

BTW... was the cache a fake pine cone? Does it sound like he found the cache? Did you respond to his impolite email?

 

Jamie

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I would have likely written in "angst avoidance" mode. Something like this:

 

"Hi! I see that you logged my cache! Thanks! But I went by there a bit after to check the cache and did not see your name in the logbook. Normally to log a find a signature is expected in the log book, but maybe you didn't have a writing utensil with you? Could you please send me a description of the cache so that I can verify your find? That will work for me. Thanks! :laughing:"

 

Note the smilie and exclamation points "angst avoidance tools." :laughing:

 

Regardless, your note was OK and the response overboard. I say if it meets the cache description (a fake pinecone) let it stand and then either (1) ignore and have no angst, or (2) nicely write back using "angst avoidance tools" and explain why owners check logs etc. And then have no angst.

 

Of course if it isn't a fake pinecone, then delete away and again have no angst! <_<

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Here was my reply to him.

 

Excuse me Sir!

 

I asked a simple question, and never accused you of cheating. I understand forgetting your pen, but you didn't have to call me derogatory names. I didn't delete your log, nor did I threaten to do so.

 

Why the attitude, I tried to be as tactful as possible? Once I asked another geocacher to delete his second found log on the same cache. He didn't cuss me out.

 

Good day.

 

:laughing:

 

Yes the cache was a real pinecone, drilled out, with a gold vial as the waterproof logholder.

 

I even used the "9 key Selector" with the icon to bring a pen or pencil :laughing: .

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I like your repsonse Carleen, it was even more tactful than mine. I'll send him another email with your signature explanation.

Use smilies and exclamation points. They can do wonders!!!!! :laughing:<_<:P:laughing:<_<<_<

 

!!!!!!!!!! :P:P

 

Edit: DISCLAIMER: Angst avoidance tools are not 100% effective. If they don't work, use the ULTIMATE ANGST AVOIDANCE TOOL (patent pending): Ignore the mean angsty person. :)

Edited by carleenp
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I emailed him the following:

 

Hi,

 

I noticed that you logged one of my caches SNIP

 

If your adamant that you did find the cache, describe the cache container for me.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

:

He’s probably pissed at your grammar faux pa. You’re = you are. Fix that and re-send the email, I bet he’ll be much nicer.

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I sent him this (Thanks to Carleen)

 

Let's start over.

 

Normally the correct method to log a find, is a signature in the log book, but you told me you forgot a writing utensil, and verified what the cache was, so I have no problem with letting the found log stand.

 

Here is some background on this standard. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=96911

 

Bill,

 

During my email to him, he sent me this in response to my reply to his original email.

 

What you should be asking yourself is why would I hide a container with out a pen if I am were so worried about people signing their logs? If someone finds it and does not sign your cheep home made log then they did not find it? You really need to find something better to do with your spare time than making sure that someone is not lying about finding a bulls%^& container that is not worth finding in the back of a shopping center.

 

Get a life pal..

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I am really sorry that you have had to encounter someone like that. It really makes you want to just pull the cache and say it isn't worth the trouble. But for every bad cacher, there are 100s of ones that would write, "wow, love the container". Keep up the good work.

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After reading the thread about signing the log to claim a find, I decided to verify a find from a new cacher who didn't sign the log.

 

Background story:

 

One of my newer caches was found recently, by a new cacher. I happened to be .1 miles away, waiting for a dentist appointment. I found the cache and was looking at the all the logs. the new cacher's log was nowhere to be found.

 

I emailed him the following:

 

 

Hi,

 

I noticed that you logged one of my caches (name ommitted). I happened to be in the area today, so I paid a visit to the cache.

 

I checked on the condition of the log, and didn't see your signature anywhere. How did you log this cache as a find, without a signature, on the cache logbook?

 

If your adamant that you did find the cache, describe the cache container for me.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Bill,

 

This is the cacher's response:

 

Sorry, I had no pen with me and that fake PINECONE had no pen in it...so how is that for ya....If you want to be an a$%^≤ then just delete it, I really don't give a s%^t, it's just a

game...some people!!

 

 

Ever had this happen to you :laughing:

"If your adamant ...", you're

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I emailed him the following:

 

Hi,

 

I noticed that you logged one of my caches SNIP

 

If your adamant that you did find the cache, describe the cache container for me.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

:

He’s probably pissed at your grammar faux pa. You’re = you are. Fix that and re-send the email, I bet he’ll be much nicer.

I seriously doubt that. So their.

Edited by Team cotati697
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He said go ahead and delete the blankin find... well, do just that! Simple solution. (Btw, we have had the problem of being penles, and people have used the antiangst method, and we described the cache, and how we impressed the log witha stick. One of them verified the impression of our name. The rest took it at our word. It works!)

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Sheee is this for real it is hard to believe someone is so crass. I am sorry that you are experianceing/have experianced this. It amazes me that someone is this way. I am without words................................................................

I guess maybe if he ever hides a cache take a large mondo sized felt tip pen and sign the log so it fills the WHOLE book take pictures etc... and then log the cache if he trys and recipicates then you got proof you signed the log. But I really think someone like this will not stay at caching very long. So just wait and see.

cheers

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He wouldn't swallow his pride, until I sent him to very polite emails explaining my reasoning. I won't push the issue further with the guy. He described the cache in detail, and I am satisfied that he did in fact find the cache.

 

I even posted the link to the forum topic about signing the log to get credit. It was funny that he took so much time to berate my cache, and the other caches he found were nothing to write home about.

 

At least mine was handcrafted, and I put some effort into it. The location was away from muggles, in a nicely landscaped area.

 

You can't please everyone.

 

Thanks for all the replies.

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I would have likely written in "angst avoidance" mode. Something like this:

 

"Hi! I see that you logged my cache! Thanks! But I went by there a bit after to check the cache and did not see your name in the logbook. Normally to log a find a signature is expected in the log book, but maybe you didn't have a writing utensil with you? Could you please send me a description of the cache so that I can verify your find? That will work for me. Thanks! :laughing:"

Hmmm. I ran the original qoute through babelfish's non-angst translator. This is what it came up with:

 

"Greetings, kind and gentle soul. My organic environmental sensors indicated that there is a very high probablility that you very well may have stopped by my earth-friendly sporting collection device. While out and about on unrelated business to our shared joy of our sport, it was decided upon by a 2/3 majority of those presently assembled to visit the earth-friendly sporting collection device. The intent of the spontaneous visit was to ensure the viability of this device in continuing to selflessly serve future visitors. It was noted that your signature was mysteriously nonexistant in the logbook. Since I understand that you are a completely honest geocacher with a kind and gentle heart, I fret over the mysterious universal conspiracy that endeavors to eliminate your writings from logs! I fear that the same conspirators could possibly have lead you to a doppleganger cache, so if you could be so kind as to provide me a description of the cache so that I can rest assured that you were not unduly mislead by these conspirators. If the very slight chance exists that your writing device jumped out of your pocket and rolled down a storm drain, I would be happy to meet you at the cache with a writing device and bravely ward off conspirators. Please have a nice day as defined by your upbringing and culture!"

 

Wow. I then ran this non-angst translation through the bablefish redneck translator and received this result:

 

"You said you logged this stinkin' cache. I'm always lookin' out fer fellers who say they found my caches but really ain't. You know the type I'm talkin' about, they be the ones who always say they went and caught a big fish, but didn't get nothin' but bait minnows, and those they done put on the hooks theirselves. Yeah, well, I think you are one of those folks, since you didn't put yer mark in the log. Hell, you coulda' even pissed on it, and Old Blue woulda sniffed that out. But you didn't, so I know you ain't been to the cache. If ya'll wanna nother chance at keepin your liar log, then you better tell me what you think the cache looks like, ya hear? If'n not, I'll scratch out yer lyin' scribblin'!" And if'n you lied, piss off.

 

Hmm. To each their own.

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It's like any activity, there are just going to be people that are jerks no matter what. I have only had to deal with one cacher that was an idiot re. one of my hides. I deleted their log untill because they include all the information to complete one of my multis and they did not understand why.

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Responding to anger with sickeningly sweet overtones of goodwill and helpful tips will almost invariably come across in print as condescending or even sardonic. The person already has a chip on their shoulder (for whatever reason) and for you to return with anything other than a concluding remark (like "Pinecone it is, thanks, cya") will be received as an attempt to knock the chip off.

 

Your first message wasn't a really big setup for anger, but it wasn't disarming either. For someone to have to be "adamant" in response to your query, they're going to have to polarize themself against you. You also make it sound as if you checked on the log specifically because they had logged it online. That comes across like you made it personal.

 

I can understand their annoyance at having their integrity questioned over a geocache. Of course, if I were them, I would have said in my online log that I had no pen and possibly that I'd even return to sign it later when I had one on me. But you're right to simply drop it at this point. Question asked, answered, and now you know.

Edited by ju66l3r
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I can understand their annoyance at having their integrity questioned over a geocache.

I agree. I usually note in my online log if I didn't have a pen or couldn't sign the log for some reason. Your first email would have put me on the defensive from the beginning too. I doubt there are many people logging finds just for the fun of it.

 

Why is it so important to you that they did physically find the cache anyway? It is just a game afterall and there are no winners or losers. B)

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Why is it so important to you that they did physically find the cache anyway? It is just a game afterall and there are no winners or losers. B)

Correct, but since the gist of the game is to note that you were there physically, signing the log would be the way to do that. This may be somewhat historical since much like letterboxing, even geocaching began before there was an organized log system setup online. While it's lost this connotation in popular press and so on, any online log system should be seen as secondary to the written log which is the main point of there being somewhere to go to in the first place.

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Why is it so important to you that they did physically find the cache anyway? It is just a game afterall and there are no winners or losers.

 

I play with integrity. If I don't find a cache, or have not signed the logs, I don't claim a find.

 

Football and Baseball are games and they have rules.

 

This was my last email to him, and then I dropped the issue. Like CarleenP said, he might not of known that cacher's are expected to sign the log.

 

His last reply to me:

 

Maybe we have gotten off on the wrong foot with each other. I now live in city ommitted and from the looks of things we are now neighbors. I just do not put up with beat around the bush bulls$%^; I get enough of that in the military. If you think I am a liar then just say so and we can move on with our lives. This game has been fun up until now and I am seeing from looking at the treasures to be found you are just a small chest piece in this board game, and I am playing for checkmate. So please be careful with your next move.

 

Here is my final reply

I'm in agreement with you. I really didn't want to bother you about the missing signature, because no matter how I wrote the email, most would feel like they were being accused of cheating, or being a liar. I wanted to believe you did in fact find it, that is why I asked you to describe the cache for me.

 

Sorry this issue has soured you on geocaching. Believe me, this game is both fun, and addictive, and there is plenty of room for both of us. If you happen to be in an area where one of my caches is placed, feel free to find it. I won't check to see if you actually signed the log (added a smiley here)

 

The majority of my hidden caches are not in urban settings, they are in the hills. I wouldn't wan't to hide an ammo can behind a shopping center, for fear that the bomb squad might blow it up. Caches actually do get blown up, in urban settings often enough for me to decide against a full sized cache "in town."

 

Half the treasure of geocaching is the hunt, the other half is the find.

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From a different viewpoint, who cares if the guy actually found your cache or not? I mean, really... if you feel you have to cheat (and there ARE some cheaters out there!), then it's wayyyyy beyond just being a game for you, huh?

 

I have 11 active hides, and if someone wants to log a find from 3 states away, more power to them. I have never deleted a log, and never will, as long as the language in them remains family oriented. I view this as a great pasttime, and if others want to view it as a do-or-die contest, then that's THEIR problem!

 

Just my opinion...and we all know what they say about them...

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Well I don't want to say anything to defame someones character but now I see why he has such a seathing short fused personality. Also it is CHESS not CHEST, but that is beside the point though I did not think you could ever compare geocaching to CHESS.

Kit I think you were not wrong and I can imagine you were suprised to see a NOOB finding you well placed camoed cache. But his response in EVERY case has been vulgar an unwarrented. Again I hope he finds geocaching to boring and moves on or changes his ways.

cheers

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Why is it so important to you that they did physically find the cache anyway?  It is just a game afterall and there are no winners or losers. :blink:

You must be kidding . . . B)

 

There are winners . . . those who find the cache and sign the logbook in the cache. :lol:

 

And there are losers . . . the people who don't play by the rules of the game. :(

 

And then there are the losers . . . people with defensive attitudes who cuss out cache owners. Sheeesh!

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. . .

 

His last reply to me:

 

Maybe we have gotten off on the wrong foot with each other. I now live in city ommitted and from the looks of things we are now neighbors. I just do not put up with beat around the bush bulls$%^; I get enough of that in the military. If you think I am a liar then just say so and we can move on with our lives. This game has been fun up until now and I am seeing from looking at the treasures to be found you are just a small chest piece in this board game, and I am playing for checkmate.

 

So please be careful with your next move.

 

This guy is in the military!

 

Wow, that is scary! B)

 

And that last sentence sounds like a threat . . . :blink:

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Why is it so important to you that they did physically find the cache anyway?  It is just a game afterall and there are no winners or losers. B)

You must be kidding . . . :blink:

 

Nope, not kidding. It is a game. This is not something worth getting upset about. I think we all have more important things to worry about than if somebody really did/ did not find our cache.

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Nope, not kidding.  It is a game.  This is not something worth getting upset about.  I think we all have more important things to worry about than if somebody really did/ did not find our cache.

Sure its only a game, but if someone is logging finds for caches they didn't actually find, that gives you a window into their integrity . . . or lack of it. B)

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It is a game. This is not something worth getting upset about. I think we all have more important things to worry about than if somebody really did/ did not find our cache.

I agree wholeheartedly that this is just a game. But it is a game that is cheapened by those who flagrantly disobey the rules. The only reason I care if someone logs a find on one of my caches without actually finding it is because I took the time to prepare, place, and maintain the cache, and others have taken the time to actually find it.

 

Geocaching is a way for people to work together to create a wholesome activity. Letting people "get away" with flouting the rules degrades what we do. If I don't care that people take the time to find one of my hides, I may as well toss an Altoids tin full of paper clips into the nearest Albertson's parking lot as I drive by.

 

The things we say and do matter, even if we're just playing a game.

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Exactly . . .

 

And, logging finds also influences what happens to other cachers.

 

Recently I looked at the last log in my Palm and since the cache had been found just a few days earlier, I walked the 1/10 of a mile, even though my knee was really hurting.

 

However, when I got to the location, I couldn't find the cache. B)

 

That was when I looked at the previous logs to the most recent one, and saw that other very experienced cachers had not found that cache.

 

If I had seen those, instead of the note saying the cache was there, I wouldn't have walked to that particular cache that day.

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Why is it so important to you that they did physically find the cache anyway?  It is just a game afterall and there are no winners or losers. B)

You must be kidding . . . :blink:

 

Nope, not kidding. It is a game. This is not something worth getting upset about. I think we all have more important things to worry about than if somebody really did/ did not find our cache.

It really wouldn't be fair play to the cachers that have found the cache and did log said cache.... Same way with the Virts and Locationless Caches .... If you don't comply with the requirements .. then you don't log them.

 

Really simple basic rules , that most all of us play by .

 

Star

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Why is it so important to you that they did physically find the cache anyway?  It is just a game afterall and there are no winners or losers. B)

You must be kidding . . . :blink:

 

Nope, not kidding. It is a game. This is not something worth getting upset about. I think we all have more important things to worry about than if somebody really did/ did not find our cache.

Then neither you nor the individual that sparked the topic would mind if the cache owner deleted a log with out the verification of find.

 

To say it's a game doesn't change that people don't like their logs deleted or that some owners do prefer that the log is signed. To say this is a game builds as much of a case for deleting the logs as it does for signing them to begin with. If anything saying this is a game means that cheaters should not be tolerated and the rules should be fairly enforced.

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Did you delete the log yet, or what?  B)

He described my cache, and my handmade log, which is prima facia evidence that he did in fact find my cache. I'll give him a chance to return to the cache, and sign the log.

 

The last thing I want is him turning into a cache maggot, and destroying all 43 of my hard placed caches. :

Edited by Kit Fox
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My thoughts:

 

I relooked at the first letter that Kit sent, I don't think that it makes it look like Kit was checking up on this person. Kit very carefully said... in the area, checking log condition, didn't happen to see you there...can't be any more generic than that. If someone sees that as being checked up on, I think that they must have a guilty attitude.

 

I'm amazed that a person could find a pinecone cache for their very first find. B)

 

I wonder why he is caching, since by his comments about your cache, he doesn't seem to like caching very much. :blink:

 

And I wouldn't delete anything, either. I would hate for him to feel like retaliating. This could become a nightmare. Like others have said, hopefully he will lose interest in caching. You can only hope that he doesn't start placing caches, he might get on a power trip and never leave the sport.

 

I think you handled it well, and just learned that the world is made up of different sort of people. That's what makes it interesting, right? :lol:

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His last reply to me:

 

Maybe we have gotten off on the wrong foot with each other. I now live in city ommitted and from the looks of things we are now neighbors. I just do not put up with beat around the bush bulls$%^; I get enough of that in the military. If you think I am a liar then just say so and we can move on with our lives. This game has been fun up until now and I am seeing from looking at the treasures to be found you are just a small chest piece in this board game, and I am playing for checkmate. So please be careful with your next move.

 

I'm just not sure; what a small chest piece? :blink:B)

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....I just do not put up with beat around the bush bulls$%^; I get enough of that in the military. If you think I am a liar then just say so and we can move on with our lives. This game has been fun up until now and I am seeing from looking at the treasures to be found you are just a small chest piece in this board game, and I am playing for checkmate. So please be careful with your next move...

KF the guy you quoted is an a**, deserving of contempt. Enough said.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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The guy had a change of heart:

 

First I would like to say that I am not the most tactful person in the world, for that I am sorry. I canceled that I found your geocaches and if I continue to play this game I will go and write my name in them. Please accept my apologies for being out of bounds yesterday but everyone has a bad day now and then.

 

Now it's time to close this thread

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