Power Trails

[+Simply Paul]

I set a series of 5 caches along a canal last October, and have been very happy with them. More recently I did a 10 cache 7 mile circular walk, which I really enjoyed too.

 

Now I've had an idea for a longer trail of caches. The location(s) would make a lot of sense and it is a nice area, worthy of a series. The question is, would 20-30 caches over something like a 10 mile walk be something people would like? Reading about power trails in the US they seem a great way to get a lot of caches in a little time, but does that 'devalue' caching?

 

I'd like to get a feel for peoples thoughts before going ahead and putting a lot of hard work into trying to make them all interesting, unique and worthwhile.

 

Any feedback would be gratefully received!

 

SP

[+klaus23]

I'd be slightly opposed to a power trail of that size... unless it was a really special or spectacular walk. But don't let that put you off.

 

I do think it leans towards the "because we can" school of cache placement - while at the same time, I would be torn between opposition and the prospect of 20 finds.

 

Arrgh... it's a conundrum

[+Pengy&Tigger]

I'd like to get a feel for peoples thoughts before going ahead and putting a lot of hard work into trying to make them all interesting, unique and worthwhile.

That's the key to it I think. If they all have something worthwhile then why not? Plus that'll be some COTM score

[Nediam]

I have no objection to quantity OR distance. I'm planning to do a couple of "power trails" in the near future and may place a series myself.

 

The distance doesn't really matter as you don't HAVE to do them all in one go

 

I recently did a series of caches round 3 reservoirs and the variation in hiding locations and cache containers made it a bit more interesting.

 

So my only tip would be to vary the containers and hiding locations....I don't think many people would want to do 20-30 film canisters all "hidden in the hole in the tree"

 

Best of luck with the series..

[+Simply Paul]

Rest assured, it's a great walk. However, individually I'd not place caches on it as I know of no spot SO outstanding it needs a cache - Except those bits that already have a cache! But, taken as a set of locations visited in order, each cache would become more significant. It's a case of a series becoming greater than the sum of its parts.

 

As you say, the ability to do it isn't a good enough reason to do it, which is why I'm canvassing opinion.

 

SP

Edited April 26, 2005 by Simply Paul

[+Roberts-tribe]

Is that 10 mile circular or 20 miles total with return?

[+littlejim]

I think just try it and see what happens! I've just put out 6 on a 20 mile walk over some of the highest ground in England - whether anybody actually likes the series is anybodies guess! Good feedback suggests a success - no feedback, well, perhaps the idea wasn't so good after all...

[+Simply Paul]

Is that 10 mile circular or 20 miles total with return?

The walk isn't circular, which is why I'd suggest people do odd numbers on the way out and even ones on the way back, to keep things interesting. I'd also hide them like this, I think. Probably by bicycle (pushed when inappropriate/dangerous/restricted)

 

SP

[+kbootb]

Cycleable (?sp) as well? Gets even better. Go for it. I'd trust your judgement that the route itself is interesting and that the caches would be varied enough.

 

I have a handlebar mount on order and looking for excuses to use it.

[+Roberts-tribe]

Sounds good, especially if a bike is an option.

[+McDeHack]

Last week I laid a 10 cache series of 6 miles along a local canal. a mix of micros and tuppers. The path is very cycle friendly. It has so far been completed twice, and others have done part of them. I am hoping in the near future to it extend further. I like this type of series so I hope others would too.

[davester]

This is what GeoHikes is all about.

 

And I'd love to hear about your 10 cache 7 mile walk.

[+Simply Paul]

This is what GeoHikes is all about.

 

And I'd love to hear about your 10 cache 7 mile walk.

As I read it, Geohikes is about walks where you can pick up some caches along the way. What I'm proposing is a rather more intensive trail, which caches perhaps only 0.3-0.4 miles apart.

 

It's not mine, it's Andybug&Ladybird's Universally Challenged series.

 

SP

[+littlejim]

As I read it, Geohikes is about walks where you can pick up some caches along the way. What I'm proposing is a rather more intensive trail, which caches perhaps only 0.3-0.4 miles apart

That sound fine for geohikes

[+Learned Gerbil]

It seems to me that cache trails, to be really worthwhile should be on the lines of Hadrian's Wall, Offa's Dyke, or the North/South Divide.

[+House Of Boo]

Hello Paul,

 

Far be it from telling you how to lay your own caches, but 20 - 30 caches over a ten mile walk seems a bit OTT and might drown out some of the better locations along the way... but on the other hand, from a numbers POV, Im sure it will "benefit" alot of cachers by bumping up their numbers (ourselves included)!!!

 

Good luck on setting a good series either way!

 

House Of Boo

[+Kitty Hawk]

I'd been reading about the power trails as well - I'm all for them.

 

I did some of the Kennet and Avon Canal series with my 6 year old, they were spaced out roughly 0.4 apart on average and it was very enjoyable. I'd have no objection to them being closer together, but I do agree with the observation that 20 film cannisters may get a bit tedious.

 

Adrian

[Beer Monster]

Why do it as a trail of separately loggable caches? Surely each cache would then have to have some merit in its placement. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to do it as a multi-cache, albeit a rather large one?

[+jochta]

What's the difference between this and a normal multi-cache with micros telling you the location of the next place to visit? Why do they have to be done as 10-20 individual caches with nothing really outstanding about any of them apart from being a means to an end?

 

Maybe it's because long multi-caches with many steps are not that popular? And we are all obsessed with upping our cache counts?!

 

Each to their own I suppose...

[Remote Part]

It seems fair enough if their is something that makes each cache unique and 'special' - not just another number to increase your finds count.

Just hiding a box in a bush every few hundreds metres, seems a bit boring to me.

 

But if it was all part of the same multicache it would seem much more of a challenge, as you would have to find each and every one.

Or maybe split it into one or two separate multicaches (so long as each is unique / interesting).

 

Hust making it a 'power trail' seems like (some) cachers will do it for the numbers, not for whether it is a nice location etc or not.

[+The Hokesters]

If you would like to do it on a Sustrans route then I can put you in touch with a cache enthusiastic Sustrans warden.

[nobby.nobbs]

ok if it's possible to grab a few at a time. i'd love to be able to go that distance in one go but it ain't going to happen. so i'd have to do it at several goes.

 

as has been said. as long as each is worth it then no probs go for it.

[+2202]

You are a lazy toe-rag SP!

Given the chance of a 13km, 5 cache 'power walk' (if thats what you want to call it) series, eg Chiltern Hundreds, you and Dan only did two and then you drove between them.

It takes the retired Happy Hippo to be the first to complete and in the correct manner.

 

And therein lies the crunch, too long a walk and it puts others off, the carrot you are offering, as does Universely Challanged, is the numbers game (10 in a 6.5km walk).

There is another advantage of many caches in that it is a deterant to going back to the car and driving further on.

Personally I would cut the numbers at least to 1km apart

[+McDeHack]

It is said that 'golf' spoils a good walk. Geocaching makes a good walk more interesting.

I personaly do not like long walks. I can maybe do a couple of miles at a time.

 

Why walk when on many trails you can bike it.

[+Pharisee]

For my next 'landmark' cache I'm planning a round trip of over 400 miles, take on a circular walk of 9 miles with an elevation change of over 2000 feet..... for ONE cache. Ok, there are actually two on the route but I've already logged one of them. The prospect of completing that I find immeasurably more exciting than walking 9 miles round muddy fields picking up a damp 35mm film container every few hundred yards.

[+Chris n Maria]

I really enjoyed the universally challenged series - it was a great walk and you can pick up a series of caches on the way. Another series like this would be welcome in my book but 20-30 caches and ten miles of walking would take quite a time to complete, If you allow 10 minutes searching/logging per cache thats up to 5 hours gone before you allow for the time it takes to walk it!

 

The nice thing about UC was it made it clear how far you were going and how much walking you were signing up for. The problem with a lot of multis is you dont know if you can walk between the points or have to get back in the car.

 

Chris

[Lactodorum]

This is a topic that has had much discussion on the Reviewers' private forum and even there opinions are very mixed. This is one of those wonderful "Grey" areas where interpretation of the intent of the guidelines is key.

 

On one hand there is the normal restriction on not placing caches closer than 0.1 mile so in theory it's fine to have 10 micro's in a single 1 mile walk, and on the other you are reminded not to flood an area with caches just because you can.

 

I have personally done the two extremes. While in California I have done "micro trails" which while good for getting numbers up have nothing else to recommend them. Then again I did the UC series and enjoyed it more than almost any single cache I can recall.

 

So the bottom line is use common sense and your experience of what makes a good cache. If you think the "trail" warrants separate caches do it that way, otherwise make it a multi.

 

At the end of the day it's only a bit of fun and I know I can trust you

[+daleswalker]

A cache intensive trail like you suggest would be ideal for a newbie (like me) who is still trying to get his head around using his wonderful new GPSr, i.e lots of practice in one outing...any chance of you taking a trip up to Gods country SP and placing it in N. Yorks!!! Only joking but I would certainly be interested in having a go, although I think my absolute limit would be a 10 miler.

 

Si.

[+Alibags]

ah, so is that why you were spotted walking in my area yesterday then Paul? My spies are everywhere!

 

I have placed some caches aong my local section of the Grand Union canal, and I intend to extend the series North and South when I get the chance (and have some goodies to put in new caches). I like such trails myself. The Kennet and Avon series is universally popular, it seems.

 

BTW, if anybody else wishes to come and play, I don't think I can realistically maintain caches all the way to London and Braunston but it would nice for other local cachers to contribute and make this a mega series along the whole 80 or so miles of the GU.

[+bargee]

Don't forget the grand union carries on from braunston through leamington and warwickand into the centre of birmingham via solihull.

now that would be some cache hike. Even too long for a geohike challenge walk!!

[+The Forester]

all interesting, unique and worthwhile

I'd say that speaks for itself.

 

My only reservation would be about designing a 10 mile walk which is not circular in some way, unless there is public transport to bring you back the 10 miles.

 

For example, Edinburgh's Water of Leith Cache Trail is a similar distance and also non-circular and has lots of worthwhile caches (more being installed for all geocachers as I write!), but there is a perfectly useable bus service to take you from one end to the other before or after the walk.

 

Cheers, The Forester

[+Haggis Hunter]

How about something along the lines of The Water of Leith Cache Trail in Edinburgh.

Reading through the comments above it has got something for everyone.

 

1. It's 12 miles long, running straight through the City of Edinburgh, and you wouldn't even realise it, even as you go past the City centre.

2. It is one way, but there is a good bus service which can get you back to the beginning if need be.

3. It has a total of 18 caches on it.

4. You can walk it (albeit a long day but can be done), Cycle, use your car and bag a few at a time, or even the bus on the same principles.

5. It has various types of caches, from regular to puzzles, with a multi which has to be done by travelling the whole lenght of the walk.

6. The sizes of caches go from a Macro Micro to a large 5 litre container.

7. The nearest together are 0.1 mile apart and the furthest are about 1.5 km apart.

 

Something for everyone there, and I haven't yet seen a bad post on any of the caches.

 

Edit: I was typing this up at the same time as The Forester, So I'm not trying to pinch his comments

Edited April 27, 2005 by Haggis Hunter

[+Simply Paul]

You are a lazy toe-rag SP!

Given the chance of a 13km, 5 cache 'power walk' (if thats what you want to call it) series, eg Chiltern Hundreds, you and Dan only did two and then you drove between them.

It takes the retired Happy Hippo to be the first to complete and in the correct manner.

 

And therein lies the crunch, too long a walk and it puts others off, the carrot you are offering, as does Universely Challanged, is the numbers game (10 in a 6.5km walk).

There is another advantage of many caches in that it is a deterant to going back to the car and driving further on.

Personally I would cut the numbers at least to 1km apart

Ah, but this is the problem. Dan and I were pushed for time as neither of us are retired and he had to get to work by 3pm. By placing caches far apart (5 in 12km is one every 2.6km/1.6m on average) in an area well served by roads you encourage people to return to their car. Congratulations to Happy Hippo for doing your series properly.

 

I'm sure the UC series (that's the 'bugs one, not yours Tony) is 6.5miles, not 6.5km but I can't check as the server has been taken out the back and shot. Since I returned to one stage I added about .5 miles to my walk.

 

As Lacto says, it's a lovely walk in an interesting area and it adds up to a great caching experience. Individually each cache would be ok...nice even... but nothing too special. Together, on a nice day with good caching company, it's simply wonderful. If you'd walk .35m to and from a single cache from a car, then offering 10 in a similar distance, all walked, doesn't seem unreasonable. Placing an arbitrary limit (beyond the sensible 0.1 miles) is to restrict possible placements. If two great spots are 0.2m apart, wouldn't it make sense to make both places you want to stop, catch your breath and have a quick hunt?

 

On the subject of making it a big multi-chain (or two) I have reservations about asking people to do large distances for a single cache - unless it's at the top of a mountain, or similar. I think it results in infrequent visits and is therefor less satisfying for me as a setter. I place caches to be found and enjoyed. A long chain multi has the danger of elements going missing and perhaps making the whole thing burgered. Individual caches not only reward the player with big numbers, and encourage more frequent finds (which rewards the setter) but also don't have the fragility of a multi.

 

Note for Ali: If I was seen at Ashridge, I was there walking a dog with a friend. If it was Aldbury, I was doing a cache there. No research, I promise!

 

SP

[Alan White]

Any feedback would be gratefully received!

Feedback from The White Family (sorry, couldn't bothered logging out and in again).

 

Every question of this nature always elicits a whole variety of responses from "yes, I'd definitely do it" to "not on your nelly". At the end of the day it's your choice whether to place them, and you'll be rewarded when they're found by those who chose to do them.

 

Would we do them? Probably not as described. A 10-mile walk with 20 caches is fine so long as either it's circular or with train stations at each end. Otherwise the only other option is to take two cars, which is more costly and more messy.

 

What you're really suggesting is a 20-mile walk with 20-30 caches. Definitely not for us. We'd probably do some of the caches, provided they could be split into smaller circles.

[+Boneychest & Catsuey]

"Power Trails, Great or Hate?"

 

Hate!

 

Definitely!

 

If the locations are worth placing a cache then place one but if it's just for the route then either make it a multi or log it on the Geohike site.

[markandlynn]

It depends.

If you like numbers then lots of caches.

If you dont care about the number then a long multi.

I would set lots of caches leading to another cache and make the clues transfereable so if any go missing its easy to reset from home.

Also variety in the hides would be good, different heights, containers, hiding holes etc.

[+Team Maddie UK]

I think that the variety of responses in this thread hold the key. Lynn and I were having a discussion just last night on similar lines. There are those of us who prefer the more challenging caches and are willing to walk some distance/climb to a great height to retrieve a cache and enjoy the experience. There are also those who are perhaps not quite as fit for whom the slightly more relaxed stroll with a few caches is more appealing. I don't think either should be excluded from the sport. One of the nice things about Geocaching is the variety of type/difficulty etc. As long as the caches fit the rules and the placer feels that they are appropriate, go for it!

 

Martin & Lynn

[Jumbo Village]

I don't know if it's just me either, but if caches are close together, you spend most of your time looking at the GPS and faffing around with GPX Sonar/View (or maybe paper!), and not taking in the scenery!

 

Being someone who is on 70 caches right now, I should be keen to get some power hikes in, but I kinda' like the fact that 100 is such a tough target.

 

So my answer would be "sort of" ! How about 1 cache per mile? That would mean a cache an hour(ish). Surely that's pretty good?

 

Cheers

Richard

[+GAZ,NES and LAYLA]

OUCH 20 MILES? Thats a long one. A 10 mile circular would be great and we would love doing that (especially getting loads of caches on the way)

That was the great bit about the "universally challenged" series......the circular walk.

AND....We dont have pushbikes,we got an X11 and a Honda blackbird but guess we cant do it on motorbikes?

PLEASE make it a circular if you can and we would DEFINATELY be up for it

NES (from GAZ NES and LAYLA ) xxx

[+kbootb]

 

Being someone who is on 70 caches right now, I should be keen to get some power hikes in, but I kinda' like the fact that 100 is such a tough target.

 

Which ID are you logging under now? I hadn't seen the Jumbo Village account clocking up and I was wondering if you were becoming an armchair cacher.

 

I fell into this category for a while. There were a couple of months when I only do a single cache. I had set myself a target of findong at least one each month so I didn't have a blank bar in my geocacheuk.com graph, but it was quite an effort.

 

Normal service is now resumed with the better weather.

[+2202]

Universally Challenged is a good circular walk albeit on relative level ground. I have not had the chance to do it,although fully intend to. (the wife will want dropping off at Champneys first!) but for more varied terrain then try Chiltern Hundreds.

Not for wimps though.

Edited April 27, 2005 by 2202

[+Simply Paul]

...but for more varied terrain then try Chiltern Hundreds.

Not for wimps though.

I can vouch for that. On a warm, humid day I was puffin' like a Puffin up the hill Dan and I walked down to do one of the CH series.

 

I was researching the path I'm thinking about today (even placed a couple of quick micros in spots that were most worthy of a little lone cache anyway, quite apart from any power trail ideas) and can confirm it's going to feature lots of different terrain, environments and difficulties. Sadly there is NO way it can be made circular, but I will put elements in that can only be done (without backtracking) in one direction, to make it a very VERY flat ellipse walk, rather than circular

 

The feeling on the forum, as I read it, seems to be a power trail isn't a bad idea in itself, so long as the locations are worthy of a cache. Which is essentially my thoughts on them too. I've tried to hide a wide variety of caches and a significant 'canal' style power trail is one area I've not touched on, so it seems an obvious project for me to try to do a great job of.

 

Watch this space

 

SP

[+The Spokes]

I could not be bothered to do all of those in a 10 mile trail. I did last week one cache on a canal path. Passing at least 3 others on the way and not bothering with another which was close by. I covered a total of 40 miles in 3 hours on my bike. Slow I know but did I stop to chat to a couple of people on the way, and to watch a Narrow Boat go through a lock. I also saw a lot of wild life which slowed me down.

For me a cache is a reason to go somewhere I would not otherwise visit.

I think our tally says it all. We may make the 80 mark in 3 years.

I said it once before and I will say it again. I think that the buzz will go out of caching when there is a cache under every rock and log.

[Jumbo Village]

I am now logging under "The Canary Dwarfs" ! A couple of us at work go lunchtime caching... Although it is getting harder and harder to fit in to an hour!

 

Can anyone reccomend a power hike in North Kent (ideally near Orpington) ? Not that I encourage that sort of thing you understand!

 

Cheers

Richard

[+jochta]

I said it once before and I will say it again. I think that the buzz will go out of caching when there is a cache under every rock and log.

I agree with this sentiment (although a bit OT). I predict that geocaching will 'implode' at some point in the future. There will be either be a high profile case of damage/injury/something else which will get into the tabloids "Geocaching killed X" or the sheer number of caches/cachers will debase the whole game.

 

Four hundred new caches in the last month (or something)? Are we only feeding the FTFers? I've set two new ones in the last month and apart from a quick FTF haven't been busy at all.

 

I can spot others that have been hidden in the last few months in this area (Oxon, Berks, Bucks) that have had a brief flurry of activity and then nothing (or very little).

 

A quick stat check on geocacheuk shows 1069 caches that haven't been found for over a month - maybe there will have to be a cull at some point

 

Let's enjoy it while it lasts....

[+2202]

Agree with Jochta's sentiments, I have already started archieving / culling some of mine. Think this subject should form a new thread.

[+Wilburii]

I like the idea of a good trail's worth of caches. Last month on my birthday I went to Gt Bedwyn and took the train to Hungerford and walked back, along the Kennet and Avon canal and picked up 14 caches during a day's walking. I was then able to pick up my car, which I'd left at the railway station and drive home happy that I'd had a really good day's walking and caching. I picked up my 100th during the course of the day so it was a little bit more special for me. I have to cache on odd days when I can, so if I can plan a whole day's worth and get a good bag then that's my idea of a grand day out. I would look forward to a power trail even if it meant a bit of an expedition to get there. Better, for me as a lone cacher, would be to have it as a circular walk, so there's no messing about with cars, or with ready access to a train. In a similar vein I'm looking forward to going to do the Alchemy series, either as a really long day out, or over a weekend, if I can get permission to abandon the troops for that long! So, a series or a power trail, I'm up for it!

[+Kitty Hawk]

I said it once before and I will say it again. I think that the buzz will go out of caching when there is a cache under every rock and log.

I suspect that there's nothing to worry about - Letter Boxing has this issue, with something like 22000 letterbox locations in the OK, mostly, as far as I can tell crammed into some specific locations, like National Parks.

 

I gather that it is feasible with letterboxing to have one box at one end of a log and another at the other end, and there's Tor's on Dartmoor with 20 or so on one peak.

 

Letterboxing hasn't diminished though, and my impression is that it's still more of a subculture than caching owing to their disinclination to embrace the internet.

 

EDIT - for OK read UK, I'm still precaffienated.

Edited May 1, 2005 by Kitty Hawk

[+third-degree-witch]

Having done a fair chunk of the Ridgeway Walk series i would say the 'Power Trail' idea works ok..I walk the Ridgeway often so get a double bonus .Are there to be any more to continue along the trail from the Chinnor end ??????

[+Simply Paul]

There may be one or two more to go in, but only as far as the M40. Beyond that I hope another cacher, local to that stretch, will take up the baton. Glad the trail has worked for you as it was designed to. I've submitted a 40 cache, 23ish mile walk to GeoHikes, but it's not been listed yet.

 

SP