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Takeing All The Cache Goodies


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My brother and I have just set up a whole trail of caches. We have one guy out there who admitts to raiding the swag on the first-to-finds of the series. This bothers us a little bit. we have spent some money on the swag items to have them start out as high quality cahce trade items. We or the game does not intend on haveing 1 person take all atitude. We did contact this person and explain our disatisfaction. Are we over reacting? what are your thoughts. This is how he logged the cache with.

 

"I was the first to find this cache. This was the first of the GRRP caches for me to find (closest to home). Very easy to find and filled with goodies. This was my very first-first time finder, so I got a little greedy and took all the goodies (excellent puzzle games) I left some beads. The weather was great and the road was in very good shape. From here I went to the bonus cache part 1. It was easy to find and very close to this cache (took only 15 minutes to travel from here to finding the bonus cache part 1) From there went to GRRP3 cache.

dnelson1"

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If he thinks it's fair to trade a few beads for all the contents of a cache, perhaps you could demonstrate how it feels by going back to your cache, restocking it with normal trade items, taking his beads, then going to one of *his* caches and exchanging all the contents for the beads. :rolleyes: Be sure to leave an effusive log entry. "I am leaving some beads that are so valuable, a guy traded them for $22 worth of stuff at the cache I picked them up from."

 

(I am not advocating the systematic plunder of all his caches, but merely a single object lesson.)

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I don't think your over-reacting at all!! Simply amazing!! It has happened to many of us. Still I go back out and re-stock them......sigh.

 

however........ you gotta give the guy credit for at least being semi-honest enough to log exactly what he did. A tiny little itty bitty fraction better than some anonymous plundering.....

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If he thinks it's fair to trade a few beads for all the contents of a cache, perhaps you could demonstrate how it feels by going back to your cache, restocking it with normal trade items, taking his beads, then going to one of *his* caches and exchanging all the contents for the beads. :rolleyes: Be sure to leave an effusive log entry. "I am leaving some beads that are so valuable, a guy traded them for $22 worth of stuff at the cache I picked them up from."

 

(I am not advocating the systematic plunder of all his caches, but merely a single object lesson.)

I could get to like that idea :(

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I am Timber Hawk's brother and we worked together to set up this series of caches. Here's what dnelson1 wrote on my cache log:

 

"I waw first to find this cache as part of the GRRP. The view up here was great. The cache was easy to find and raid (still feeling greedy) Left a toy car and hamburger. There seemed to be just enough light left to go look for 1 more part of the GRRP cache list. dnelson1"

 

He actually admits to "raid"ing the cache. How do you deal with a guy like this? He is ruining it for the 2nd and 3rd to finders. I hope he didn't leave a real hamburger in the cache. That could get nasty! At least, I think, he is returning the containers.

 

medoug.

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I can't tell if the person is ignorant, or if it is someone who is behaving badly to annoy people and get attention. Often in cases where someone is purposely seeking to annoy, it is best to ignore them. Ignore the logs, quielty restock the caches etc and try not to give them attention. But if the person is just plain ignorant a nice email explaining the ethics of trading could be a good idea. I suppose you could send the email and if the response shows that the person is really out to just annoy people, then you can start ignoring them and report it to Groundspeak. They can't do anything about general ignorant or greedy people, but they can ban the accounts of cache pirate/maggots.

Edited by carleenp
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Here is the log from the guys first cache: This was my first geocache. Beautiful day, took plastic gold medallion and left a Lewis and Clarke quarter. The then traded the plastic coin for some other thing. He always seemed to CITO where he went etc... but then on the mentioned cache he went brain dead. I dont know he is a teacher, so says his profile. I don't know maybe a email or two and you can help to educate him. I don't know I guess why it doesn't pay to put good stuff in caches, that and TNLNSL. Sorry but I would try to talk to him he is NEW.

cheers

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dnelson1 sounds immature. Sorry about the setback. :rolleyes:

I'd say a little green is more like it. I'm not sure that "took all the goodies" means he emptied the cache. It may just mean he took what he considered to be the best things in the cache. A friendly email explaining that it is common practice to trade even or up when caching might take care of it.

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I think I would check your caches to see what's still in them before you jump to conclusions. I'll admit from the wording it does sound like this cacher took the good stuff and left nothing of equal or better value. But until you actually see what's in your caches, it's really not fair to speculate.

 

After you check your caches, then email this person and tell them the guidelines for caching are to trade up or even, and that you don't think he did this on his recent cache visits. Explain why you're displeased and ask that he refrain from "raiding" caches in the future.

Edited by AtlantaGal
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Here is what I sent him:

 

"I understand that you are new to geocaching. Perhaps you don't understand how geocaching works. You are supposed to take only one item out of the cache in exchange for replacing it with another item. This ensures that there are cache items for other geocachers. Geocaching is not a "raiding/free-for-all" game. It is a sharing game. There is no tolerance for greed. If you can't play by the rules, please don't play the game. Timber Hawk and I have put a lot of work into establishing the GRR passage of caches and have invested our own money to supply our caches with high quality starting items. You essentially stole from us and other cachers visiting our caches by taking all of the items out of our caches. If this message makes you feel guilty, good, that was its intent. If you have half a concience, you will return all but one of the items in each cache. Hopefully, this was just a misunderstanding and you will do the right thing.

 

medoug."

 

Here is what Timber Hawk sent him:

 

" I sure you were joking about taking ALL the puzzles from the cache. We have

stocked that cache with nice swag items. Wouldn't it be disappointing to be the

second or third-to-find on a puzzle cache only to find a few beads. One general

guide line to trading swag items is if you take an item you should leave an item

of the same general value or trade up. There have been plenty of discussions

about this in the forums. NEVER take all the items.

If you are not joking about taking all the items (I hope you were) I ask that

you PLEASE! Put back the puzzles except for 1 into the cache. These were meant

for several people to enjoy not just one. I am sure this will not be a problem

since you state that you do live near this location. If you chose not to do

this, I do ask you please do not visit any more of the GRRP caches or any other

caches placed by myself "TIMBER HAWK" or placed by "MEDOUG" in the future.

If this comes across as being a little harsh I do apologize. It is just that

Medoug and myself have spent countless hours setting up this series and several

dollars to have most of the caches stocked with higher quality items for all to

enjoy. As you being a schoolteacher, I am sure you can understand the

importance and ethnics of being able to share with other geocache seekers.

 

Sincerely,

Timber Hawk"

 

We both sent these messages independent of each other before starting this forum discussion. Neither of us has received a reply back from him. We tried to be as diplomatic as possible without expressing our full resentment. I hope he changes his ways.

 

Unfortunately, he has made it clear that he also plans to visit the other caches in the series. This is Timber Hawk's and mine first time placing caches and we are both becoming a bit disheartened after this experience. I guess we shouldn't hide good stuff in the woods. We expected that it wouldn't take long before our good starting stuff in the cache would be depleted, but we never imagined that it would happen with one visit.

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You are supposed to take only one item out of the cache in exchange for replacing it with another item.

 

 

I always thought you could trade out as many items as you wanted as long as you replaced them with the same number of items of equal or greater value.

 

When I first started, I made a few inequitable trades. I quickly realized the error of my ways, and now I carry a variety of swag and cache first-aid items (when I don't leave it in the car) and I try to leave a cache better than I found it.

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I finally received a response. He is pleading misunderstanding of the rules. Here is his posting:

 

"Medoug,

Sorry about raiding the caches. I did look through the forums before ever starting out to see what the rules were for geocaching (see copy from the official rules forum page below)

What are the rules in Geocaching?

Geocaching is a relatively new phenomenon. Therefore, the rules are very simple:

1. Take something from the cache

2. Leave something in the cache

3. Write about it in the logbook

Where you place a cache is up to you.

 

What is usually in a cache?

A cache can come in many forms but the first item should always be the logbook. In its simplest form a cache can be just a logbook and nothing else. The logbook contains information from the founder of the cache and notes from the cache's visitors. The logbook can contain much valuable, rewarding, and entertaining information. A logbook might contain information about nearby attractions, coordinates to other unpublished caches, and even jokes written by visitors. If you get some information from a logbook you should give some back. At the very least you can leave the date and time you visited the cache.

Larger caches may consist of a waterproof plastic bucket placed tastefully within the local terrain. The bucket will contain the logbook and any number of more or less valuable items. These items turn the cache into a true treasure hunt. You never know what the founder or other visitors of the cache may have left there for you to enjoy. Remember, if you take something, its only fair for you to leave something in return. Items in a bucket cache could be: Maps, books, software, hardware, CD's, videos, pictures, money, jewelry, tickets, antiques, tools, games, etc. It is recommended that items in a bucket cache be individually packaged in a clear zipped plastic bag to protect them.

 

As you can see, there is nothing in the rules for what you can take or how much. I did leave stuff in each of them as the rules state. As for feeling guilty, I don't, since I was following the official guidelines for geocaching. However, I will return the items back to the caches since it was never my intent to break any unofficial rules, conduct or expected practices. It may be helpful to ask to have the rules expanded to include the take ONE leave ONE practice for any other new comer to geocaching.

 

dnelson1

PS- I'm sure you tried to contact me BEFORE posting anything on the forums since that too would be unethical"

 

Oops on the PS portion. Are we really that bad for discussing this here? (And, yes, we did try to contact him before we posted here. Perhaps he did not have access to his computer to reply during the day.) Anyway, here was my response:

 

"Thank you for the response. We appreciate that you plan to the return most of the items (keep 1 item for yourself) to the caches. After doing so, feel free to enjoy the GRR passage of caches.

 

As far as the rules, I believe you misunderstood. Notice that the single word "something" is used, not the two words "some things". "Something" means 1 item. "Some things" would mean multiple items. Hopefully this is a learning experience.

 

medoug.

 

P.S. In the future, it might be best to not use the terms "raid" or "greedy" in you logs. These terms definitely give other cachers the impression that you are up to no good and only concerned about helping yourself."

 

Well, at least he is willing to put back the items, and now he understands the rules, written or unwritten. If he does as he says, all will be forgiven. Hopefully he will become a "good" part of the geocaching community. I consider this issue closed.

 

Thank you all for the moral support.

medoug.

Edited by medoug
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Are you sure this guy isn't a lawyer? It did not take a thorough reading of the rules for me (or most of you) to figure out that a cache should not be looted. I find the response disingenuous. Still, you made your point and we will see if he gets it. :lol:

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Well there is NO rule as to how many items you can trade for but just Trade Fair is the only real rule. My 3 kids will all take and item and leave an item. So as long as his trades are fair he can take everything if e leaves a fair trade. But usually I don't see why one would other then just the joy of the find and the moment overwhelms someone. So I am glad he is now educated.

cheers

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My question is did they really take it all? I sometimes put joking logs on my friend's caches. If no one is watching a log, I will sometimes post a find (since the owner gets a copy of the post) with something really crazy and then I go edit it or simply delete it. Like my logs of leaving a chili cheese dog in a magnetic hide a key.

 

But in reality, I hope the log is a joke. I'd hate to have to send my friend Luigi over to take care of some legs. hahahahaha

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I don't know if it was a real hamburger. If it was, I would guess that S10 would have removed it yesterday during his visits since he was kind enough to restock these caches with a few items after discovering that they had been raided.

 

S10, if you read this forum: Thank you for helping out these raided caches with your items. We need more cachers like you. And good luck in completing the Great River Road Passage of caches!

 

medoug.

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Here is what I sent him:

 

"...If you can't play by the rules, please don't play the game. ...You essentially stole from us and other cachers visiting our caches by taking all of the items out of our caches. If this message makes you feel guilty, good, that was its intent. "

Clearly this guy was in the wrong, but I find your message to him to be far from diplomatic. Timberhawk's note was better. You're lucky you got as friendly of a response as you did.

 

It seems to me that his "lawyer"-ish response was only in defense of accusing him of stealing and asking him not to play anymore.

 

I'm glad he seems to be on the right road now, though.

 

Jamie

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Here is what I sent him:

 

"...If you can't play by the rules, please don't play the game.  ...You essentially stole from us and other cachers visiting our caches by taking all of the items out of our caches.  If this message makes you feel guilty, good, that was its intent. "

Clearly this guy was in the wrong, but I find your message to him to be far from diplomatic. Timberhawk's note was better. You're lucky you got as friendly of a response as you did.

 

It seems to me that his "lawyer"-ish response was only in defense of accusing him of stealing and asking him not to play anymore.

I'm in total agreement here. Yes, the guy did something that doesn't fit the norm, but it probably doesn't help much to chew him out like that. Don't forget that the people you p-off here and via email will likely be the same people you are going to be sitting with face-to-face at the next event cache. Why create bad blood?

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(I am not advocating the systematic plunder of all his caches, but merely a single object lesson.)

Why not advocate busting his caches?

 

Jerk behavior is what got us the SC mess. If we don't do something about the goobers that screw up the game, there seems to be at least group of people who are more than happy to.

 

A simpler way to do it is to post the loser's ID and have the mods beat up on his caches and logs for a few weeks.

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