We Gotta Do Something

[+sbell111]

Everytime I see this topic, I'm reminded of my Ops Mgmt professor in grad school. The class was case-based and he was fond of making sure we thought of all alternatives. The two which were frequently neglected is 'don't change a thing' and 'close up shop and move to Barbados'.

 

Strangely, these are the only two alternatives the 'we' have. Jeremy has already stated that he's aware of the issue and he's working on it. Since we don't work for Jeremy and he doesn't directly report to any of us, our alternatives become 'make do until it is resolved' or 'quit'.

 

I'm going to make do until the issue is resolved. I'll still try to log caches whenever I want to, but if the site is slow. I'll do it some other time. No big deal.

[ZoopD|ngle]

Why not limit access on the weekends to people whose accounts have been active less than a couple of months? These are the people who are debating whether or not to spend the money on a membership

 

and, those who have paid really don't need weekend access.

So treat the people thinking about giving you money better than the ones who already do is a good buisness decision? I'm not sure that would work in any business yet alone a service.

<snip>

In this particular business (a de facto monopoly) it makes perfect sense. Think about it; you have no viable alternative; paying members have nowhere else to go. Most of them will be back. Besides, for each member that left, there would be more then enough to replace her.

[+sbell111]

I'm among those that think that that would not be a good business model. Why piss off paying customers if you don't have to?

[+pghlooking]

Besides, for each member that left, there would be more then enough to replace her.

Are you one of the ones going to be doing the replacing by coughing up the 30 bucks to support the site that you use? We need more people like yourself willing to do that to help maintain this place. Now will that be cash, check,or paypal?

[+CacheKestrel]

GeoCaching.com continues to provide the best caching site on the web (IMHO) and it would be a shame if its own popularity causes people to seek other services.

 

Please keep us updated on any progress that is made to correct this problem.

 

Thank You.

[+sbell111]

I suspect that our update will come in the form of quick logging on Sundays and Mondays.

[ZoopD|ngle]

Besides, for each member that left, there would  be more then enough to replace her.

Are you one of the ones going to be doing the replacing by coughing up the 30 bucks to support the site that you use? We need more people like yourself willing to do that to help maintain this place. Now will that be cash, check,or paypal?

If I could access the site on the weekends I might cough up the 30 bucks. As it stands though, I am quite content to not bother logging at all.

[+fizzymagic]

I know you've been tracking this, so you have an exact figure, but if memory serves me correct, the amount of weekly logs is a bit more then double since November.

 

EDIT: OK, I'm slightly off. Looks like in Nov. 2004 they were getting 65,000-70,000 logs a week. I know the site has exceeded 120,000 logs by mid-week the last few weeks. So not quite doubled.

Average logs/day (rounded up to nearest 100):

 

May 2004: 9400

Nov. 2004: 10100

March 2005: 14400

 

Not even close to doubling since last November. It has not even doubled in the last year.

 

I obtained my numbers by using the log ID#, and doing a manual binary search to find the first log for each month. No scripts were used, and no electrons were harmed in this process.

[+tls11823]

People just don't appreciate the effort required to maintain a system and/or a database. I spend quite a bit of my time helping people tune the performance of their systems. It can be complex and time-consuming, and you can't always play around with alternatives in an environment that has to be available around the clock. The problem may be hardware, software, database configuration, log configuration (which I've seen mentioned here as a likely cause), RAID configuration, bad programming constructs, and any number of other things. Most of these can't be fixed by flipping a switch.

 

While the administrators are trying to diagnose all this, they need to keep the environment running, and deal with other demands of the business. Everybody needs to take a chill pill and acknowledge that these systems are more complex than the PC you're using to complain about this stuff.

 

In the meantime, "We gotta do something" - OK, wise guy. What do you propose that we do? Pissing and moaning hasn't generated results, so you'll have to move to plan B.

[+Logscaler and Red]

The following is my opinion on this subject and if you (generic you) get insulted easy, skip to the next comment.

 

3...

 

2..

 

1.

 

I want it.

 

I want it all.

 

I want it ALL NOW!

 

I wish that slow logging was my only concern. Life would be so sweet then.

 

You (still a generic you) who have a problem could all quit your day jobs, get a swing shift job and that would put you up and wide awake at something like 2 in the morning.

 

Or you (same generic you) could get a graveyard shift and that would put you in front of your screen at somewhere around 7 in the morning. Then you could take your own sweet time logging all your caches.

 

How cool would that be?

 

Seems to me like the complaints I see here are like gas pumps, check out lanes, traffic control lights, etcetc.

 

You (same generic you as above) hate having to wait in line yet you keep showing up at the same time and running into the same problem. And bitching about it again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again.

 

And Red just capped it for me.

 

quityerbitchinandgetalife.

 

I warned you and if you have a problem with it, tough.

 

Logscaler.

[+planetrobert]

I warned you and if you have a problem with it, tough.

 

well said, i just log my sunday caches on like thursday usually, partly to avoid the slows... partly cause i am slow getting to things.

[+StarBrand]

I mentioned a week or 2 ago that 1 simple solution here would be for about 1000 of us could donate an extra $25 one time and that would allow TPTB to get some addtional hardware to bump things up a bit (or hire someone to help tweak or whatever).

 

I am willing - are you???

[+mantis7]

How about 'status quo'?

 

 

I think this forum should be renamed. Instead of website improvements it should be called "lets not change anything, K?"

[+AtoZ]

Servers cost about $30,000.00 for a barebones system so get multi processors etc.... with gigs of onboard ran is expnesive up to $60,000.00+.

Actually, Friendster is handling millions of page views, queries, users on White box systems that I'll be don't cost anywhere near that much...

 

From an excellent article on their performance issues: "During the summer of 2003, Friendster was plagued by performance issues. Often, the millions of users pounding the site where unable to access it, and when they could, results were inconsistent from page to page. "

 

Deja vu.

 

Friendster scales the network with open source

 

To echo the sentiment that keeps flying around...everyone appreciates what TPTB have been able to accomplish with limited manpower and for fairly low cost to users.

 

At the same time, why should I not be able to use the site as it's intended - to search for caches and log my finds when I'm ready? I don't think it's selfish to be able to log finds on a Sunday evening. Maybe I'm headed on vacation, maybe I work all week and don't get online then, maybe I just like to get things wrapped up while I'm thinking about it....users shouldn't need to change their basic actions to overcome site limitations like this!

The problem is not straight SELECT queries but doing updates and inserts cause page and table locks depending hnow the database is cinfigured. So if your just looking up info then it is easier on a database then if your updating which is what people say the problem is. But there is just a basic webserivces issue too where when you just try to log onto GC.com it is slow. This to me says there is a bandwidth issue as well since the webpage is so slow to come up.

cheers

[+sbell111]

I think this forum should be renamed. Instead of website improvements it should be called "lets not change anything, K?"

I was going to lobby for 'I know they're working on it, but my wife won't let me kick the dog anymore, so I'm going to rant for nothing for a while.'

 

Don Quixote strikes again!

[+nfa]

Let's just be grateful that the site works as well as it does, and not ask about why it gets slower and slower each weekend...it's not a bandwidth issue...unless it is...

 

When I was a kid, we had to log our finds over telegraph lines, and boy, you should have seen some of the waits we had back then...you don't know anything about waiting

Hi, I'm nfa, and I log my finds when I'm able, and also wonder why the site can't work faster ...please forgive me

 

nfa-jamie

 

{{{people who complain about complainers are meta-complainers}}}

Edited April 19, 2005 by NFA

[+Whiskerjinks]

If we could have a generic page that we would enter the GCid into and the log would go to the right cache. that would be cool.

 

EDIT:  I mean a log page.

Have ya tried the WAP site?? I love it, we sometimes log our finds while walking back to the car

Edited April 19, 2005 by Whiskerjinks

[+nfa]

If we could have a generic page that we would enter the GCid into and the log would go to the right cache. that would be cool.

 

EDIT:  I mean a log page.

Have ya tried the WAP site?? I love it, we sometimes log our finds while walking back to the car

does that access different servers? If so, I'll be logging through that until a real solution comes along....thanks

 

nfa-jamie

[+wimseyguy]

I like sbell's professor. I had a HS friend who did just that. After several years busting on Wall St. he took his first vacation to some Caribbean island. One windy day he wanted to buy a kite but discovered there was no kite store on the island. So after his vacation he went back to NYC, quit his brokerage job, sold everything, and moved to the island to open the kite store. Oh and come out of the closet too.

My only relevent thought to this topic is: it doesn't matter what is discussed and agreed upon in here; who will tell the 90+% of geocachers who do not read the forums that they should wait until Monday or Tuesday so we can log our finds on Sunday?

[+carleenp]

who will tell the 90+% of geocachers who do not read the forums that they should wait until Monday or Tuesday so we can log our finds on Sunday?    

I thought it was that we don't log on Sundays so that those who don't read the forums can? And if they still can't log we won't know about it because as non-forum users they won't come here and post!

 

So I figure I will just enjoy Sunday night TV and not even try to log. Then I won't have problems logging on Sunday nights! Ignorance is the anti-angst.

Edited April 19, 2005 by carleenp

[+planetrobert]

If we could have a generic page that we would enter the GCid into and the log would go to the right cache. that would be cool.

 

EDIT:  I mean a log page.

Have ya tried the WAP site?? I love it, we sometimes log our finds while walking back to the car

does that access different servers? If so, I'll be logging through that until a real solution comes along....thanks

 

nfa-jamie

no it doesn't

[+caderoux]

Here are some alternatives which ARE within peoples' power while they are waiting for gc.com to be able to handle the load:

 

1. Log in GSAK

 

2. Don't log at all (there are plenty of people who don't log "lame micros", for some reason)

 

3. Build another system - post your own logs on your own site and just link to gc.com via the waypoint

 

4. Go to another geocache listing site and hunt and log caches there

[+JohnnyCacheAz]

At 2.39 per gallon of gas......whats $3.00 per month to our favorite website? If only half of the cachers paid this small pittance.....Think of what an incredibly fast website this could be!

[+caderoux]

Oddly enough, for all the talk here of monetary support and clamoring for that as part of the structure of the solution (separate members-only servers, etc.), I haven't seen anyone say whether a direct cause is monetary.

 

Money's important, and paying members are important - but will having more money actually improve anything more quickly in any way?

[+Cheminer Will]

How about 'status quo'?

I think the folks that run the website got the message. I like the site as it is, and expect to like it even more in the future with additional features and upgrades my paid membership will bring. To my view, compared to a lot of forums out there, this one is well run and managed. I am sure they will get the slow server problem fixed as soon as possible.

 

I suspect the problem is not money. I belong to a couple of other websites with very large forums. (much larger than geo.com). These both charge 19.99 per year for upgraded features for paying members and rarely have server slowness issues. The one time I remember it happening on one of them, I recall the administrator explaining that they had increased usage to the point they were going to have to increase technology, and or hardware. A month or so later, there were a few middle of the night shutdowns to do this and the problems disappeared.

[+Cheminer Will]

Well even though my previous post was somewhat sympathetic, I think the time has come for a detailed explanation of problems and plans from Jeremy or some other person in the know.

 

As I just noted in the other thread the site has gone from very slow on Sunday to very slow Friday and Saturday, and totally unavailable on Sunday!

 

edited for spelling

Edited April 24, 2005 by Cheminer Will

[+John & Donna]

I think the time has come for a detailed explanation of problems and plans from Jeremy or some other person in the know. 

 

I agree it's time for an explanation. We premium members are paying customers.

[+CacheKestrel]

Here you go... I guess I will do my posts tomorrow.

Server Error in '/' Application.

Timeout expired. The timeout period elapsed prior to completion of the operation or the server is not responding.

Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code.

 

Exception Details: System.Data.SqlClient.SqlException: Timeout expired. The timeout period elapsed prior to completion of the operation or the server is not responding.

[+Team Cotati]

Here you go... I guess I will do my posts tomorrow.

Server Error in '/' Application.

Timeout expired. The timeout period elapsed prior to completion of the operation or the server is not responding.

Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code.

 

Exception Details: System.Data.SqlClient.SqlException: Timeout expired. The timeout period elapsed prior to completion of the operation or the server is not responding.

I was wondering. What caused you to post this?

[+CacheKestrel]

This is the error the Geocaching website burped up when I was trying to search a TB. I got the same message the past three Sundays. The server is busy and can not process my request. This is why I must wait until Monday to complete any logs.

[+sbell111]

I'm happy to report that I just logged my finds from Saturday afternoon and this morning. All went well.

[Keystone]

I think the time has come for a detailed explanation of problems and plans from Jeremy or some other person in the know. 

 

I agree it's time for an explanation. We premium members are paying customers.

Jeremy has posted twice in the past week alone about changes he is making so that the site "runs faster" from the user's perspective. I think it's safe to say that he hasn't abandoned the plans he described; rather, he and the team are likely "workin' on it." And if you search a bit further back in time, you'll find some more posts that summarize the "problems," which relate principally to database load rather than of bandwidth, etc.

 

I don't know whether you can expect a separate explanation each time when a thread is started, so until we all hear another update I suggest reading what's already here.

[+NoLemon]

As I just noted in the other thread the site has gone from very slow on Sunday to very slow Friday and Saturday, and totally unavailable on Sunday!

I have to disagree with the 'totally unavailable on Sunday' comment. Between Saturday afternoon and Sunday afternoon I had 21 finds. I logged 19 of the 21 finds on Sunday night between 7 and 10 pm CDT. I did not receive a single time out message or error. Yes, the site wasn't quite as responsive as it is on say a Tuesday morning, but it was more than acceptable.

 

I would have logged the other two finds but I stopped to go watch some TV.

 

As someone who works in the field of Information Technology, I understand that there are problems that can't be solved just by throwing more hardware or bandwidth at it. I trust that Jeremy and crew are working to improve the situation (remember, this is their livelyhood as far as we know) and I can be patient. They don't need to be bitched at every Sunday because the site isn't as responsive as people would like.

 

When there is an accident blocking the highway, does it really help speed things up when everyone starts honking?

[+pghlooking]

I have to disagree with the 'totally unavailable on Sunday' comment. Between Saturday afternoon and Sunday afternoon I had 21 finds. I logged 19 of the 21 finds on Sunday night between 7 and 10 pm CDT. I did not receive a single time out message or error. Yes, the site wasn't quite as responsive as it is on say a Tuesday morning, but it was more than acceptable.

Don't forget that the weather in alot of areas wasn't what it has been nor will be for most of the summer. I know in Pittsburgh it was miserable with snow and rain so there were alot less cachers out like it was winter again. If you look at the past weeks when the has been slow, the weather also has been nice in the northern parts. Don't be mislead by this past weekend.

[+sbell111]

And yet the latest, and most strident complaint was made on this Sunday.

 

Just relax, the problem is being worked on.

[+CacheKestrel]

This is encouraging. It looks like they are trying to fix the problem.

 

Geocaching.com is down for maintenance

 

We're in the process of upgrading our database servers. This should improve the speed of the web site. Thanks for your patience

 

In the meantime, you can visit the Groundspeak forums or check out the Groundspeak store. Both of these web sites do not rely on the Geocaching database.

[+Lostby7]

This is encouraging. It looks like they are trying to fix the problem.

 

Geocaching.com is down for maintenance

 

We're in the process of upgrading our database servers. This should improve the speed of the web site. Thanks for your patience

 

In the meantime, you can visit the Groundspeak forums or check out the Groundspeak store. Both of these web sites do not rely on the Geocaching database.

I sure hope it works as the delays are frustrating.

[gridlox]

I hope it works, just so everyone will stop Bitching!!

 

 

I mean get real!

So you can't log your find right when you WANT to.

Come back and log them later when the load isn't so bad.

 

I've logged mine a couple days later before.

There is the option of changing the date you found it, as opposed to the day you log it, you know.

 

In these days of fast food, instant messaging, cell phones, & broadband, EVERYONE expects to get instant results and when they don't then it's WAAAAA!!!

 

Geez folks!

 

Try going back to 14.4 dial-up access where you actually only were getting 9.5 or if you were one of the lucky ones and had really good phone lines, you could get really fast speeds of 12

 

The fine folks here provide you with a place to enjoy your sport/hobbie/....

And it is growing by leaps and bounds it seems.

 

It's no different than the real world when you get married and have kids. Eventually your going to need more room in your house.

 

Until you can get things worked out and buy you a new house with more room, you are going to have to make do with what you got.

 

Sure there are going to be times when you have to stand at the door dancing while waiting your turn to use the pot!!

 

Get used to it!

 

Before you start blasting me about not being a premium member and thinking I'd think different if I was, let me tell you that I am not one YET, mainly because financially it's out of the question at this time.

BUT, as soon as I can swing the little extra $$, I will definately becoome one.

 

Not because I want the extras that come with the membership, but because I fully want to support the site and what it affords ALL of us.

 

Have a nice day!

 

D-man