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Peanuthead

We Gotta Do Something

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I have a free account, so I try not to complain about anything.

 

But golly gee, it takes me 4 times longer to log my finds as it does to find them.

 

Do paying members have access to faster servers?

 

If not, I would pay double what the monthly fee is for membership if ALL the

 

money went to hire faster squirrels and stronger rubber bands.

 

Maybe we can start a Paypal donation account and take donations and then send

 

Groundspeak a check for new servers once we got up to a certain amount.

 

All responses are welcome, those in support and those that make fun of my

 

mother are fine. Just remember, if you make fun of my momma I reserve the

 

right to put skunky smelling dirty socks in all your caches.

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Maybe we can start a Paypal donation account and take donations and then send

 

Groundspeak a check for new servers once we got up to a certain amount

it's called premium membership. Try it, you'll like it.

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Do paying members have access to faster servers?

 

Nope.

 

ok, heres my plan. Those you on that side of the room, leave and don't come back till next wednesday. ;)

Half of those left, stop trying to log your finds and run searchs till early tuesday ;) . (so I can get mine done a little quicker :D:D:) )

 

(edited to add more smiles)

Edited by welch

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On Sundays the servers get hammered by all the cachers logging finds from their weekend hunts, uploading photos etc. I usually wait til monday to log.

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I could be wrong here (it's been known to happen every great once in a while) but I think I recall Jeremy stating one time that it's a SOFTWARE problem, not a HARDWARE problem, and "they're workin' on it".

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I suspect that software (database) issues are at the heart of it and suggest;

 

1) Everybody pays - Newbies get 30 days of free access, then pay or go away.

 

2) Raise the monthly rate to where you can hire whoever or buy whatever is needed to optimize the site - I would pay $10. / month.

 

Ed

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Maybe we can start a Paypal donation account and take donations and then send

 

Groundspeak a check for new servers once we got up to a certain amount

it's called premium membership. Try it, you'll like it.

You must have a better premium membership than me, because this site runs slower than a turtle for me on sundays. ;)

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2) Raise the monthly rate to where you can hire whoever ...

A while back Jeremy was looking for someone to help out, even looked within the geocaching ranks first. Don't know what happened, however this bit of code in on the homepage:

// Code added 10:10 AM 8-16-2004 by Sean
// forces site to run in own space (avoids hotmail bar when accessed from email link)
//---begin new code---

 

Who is Sean? Is he the new lackey?

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You must have a better premium membership than me, because this site runs slower than a turtle for me on sundays.

 

I wasn't suggesting that as a premium member the site runs any faster for me, just that the way to Paypal money to Groundspeak is to pay for premium membership. Also, I expect that if all users paid $30 annually, the cash for software/hardware would be available. (I'm on the east coast, the key to Sunday use is early early am, not a problem for me - and I'll do a couple of logs with a lot of pics on Monday or Tuesday).

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I suspect that software (database) issues are at the heart of it and suggest;

 

1) Everybody pays - Newbies get 30 days of free access, then pay or go away.

 

2) Raise the monthly rate to where you can hire whoever or buy whatever is needed to optimize the site - I would pay $10. / month.

 

Ed

I think I remember Jeremy once saying that he would NEVER charged money for access to the site's databases...

 

And so while people are paying $30 a year, supporting the site, people can still just get on and check it out without paying...

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This is not about the money, premium members and free accounts will have the exact same problem. It is the same servers after all. I agree that something needs to be done about the performance. Money can be used to restrict access during peak times.

 

Restrictions for non-premium members during peak times may provide some short term relief but the site is not scaled to handle these spikes in activity.

 

I share your grief… ;)

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I must agree with the slow server frustration. I'm experiencing it too, with a premium membership AND a cable modem. I have contact Groundspeak with a nice but concerned letter. I hope to receive a response to learn if something si in the works. I would pay extra as well to keep this wonderful service running well. All the folks at Groundspeak have done a fabulous job!

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I have a REALLY slow Internet connection over "dirty" phone lines and even I notice the slowness . . . ;)

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Sunday slowness is annoying at times, but I figure that my finds won't go away and I just wait to log on Monday. No real angst for me over that. B)

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We haven't had any real angst in a while. Slow servers on Sunday is a tradition here. Like Carleen, your finds won't disappear if they aren't logged on Sunday.

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I think I remember Jeremy once saying that he would NEVER charged money for access to the site's databases...

 

Yeah, I hear that a lot, but then I expect that when he said that he had no idea what this site, or this game, would become!

 

Stuations change, and you can't expect decisions not to. An unwavering dedication to such a statement would be foolhardy for a businessman. Flexibility is everything!

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Just by way of information Jeremy is aware of the problem and is working on it. Just so others are aware each week the web site is hitting a new record number of posts.As the sport continues to grow we all have to work with the system. I can't speak to specifics because it is above my simple mind but I know Jeremy has a number of areas he is working on to try and help with the situation. As Pika said wait until Monday when the site is not so bogged down and log your finds then.

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...So if everyone follows the advice to wait until Monday to do their logs, it will get to the point where Yogi might say: "Nobody comes to GC.com on Sundays anymore, it's too crowded!"

Edited by hukilaulau

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Great advice. Now would someone please tell the 95% of geocachers who never set fingertips in the forums. B):D:oB)

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I think it would be great if premium members were given enhanced access to servers for logging, or if non-paying members were restricted from logging on Sundays, but for now, I'm ok with trying to log on a different day.

 

nfa-jamie

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No it is just all the poeple that dont care about numbers are logging all there finds for the week end so everyone can see how many caches that they don't care about finding, sorry just thought it was funny.

But no members do not have faster through put. It is just there is only so much bandwidth to go around. Maybe a OC3 line or something like that in to GC central. I just wait and do it a day or to later and all is happy in geocache land. Hope everyone had a nice caching weekend.

cheers

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Sundays are slow? I thought geocaching was dying ( B) joking about recent topic.).

 

Moving to the proper forum. (Geocaching Web Site)

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Logging finds the next day (or a week later) is fine except I prefer to log my finds ASAP. Not because I'm a bean counter but rather because I see it as a courtesy to other cachers, especially on newly listed caches. Again, not being a bean counter but logging a FTF is a fun little bonus.... I've gone out after a cache showing no logs only to find 3 or 4 signatures in the log book and someone who didn't log the find online until 2 days after the find.

 

I'll be getting my premium membership this week, and hopefully adding my little bit towards improving/maintaining GC.com.

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We haven't had any real angst in a while. Slow servers on Sunday is a tradition here. Like Carleen, your finds won't disappear if they aren't logged on Sunday.

Save your logs as a word document and post them on Monday or Tuesday.

 

Team Techmage, many of us remember when the baby was born, but where are some more recent photos? What’s up with that?

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Waiting to log your finds on another day is nice if thats how you want to do it, But if you want to log on the day you find, that too should be your option. As summer comes this will only get worse. I do feel that non-paying members should not really have much to say, as their support is to the game (no matter how much they do in other areas of the sport) and not the site (my opinion only). As a paying member i notice lots of people taking the polite or high road of, wait till another day. I also question if this was another site you were paying a monthly or yearly fee to access and use would you be so gracious as to pay for a service that was not available when you wanted it? If it was your cable/DSL access and they told you to wait till Monday to check your e-mail or stock quotes because your neighbor was using the service, would you just say sure that sounds good to me? I doubt it highly. Not "trying" to poke the nest but am wanting some people to look at it from another view. I like to log my finds the day i cache. To me its just another stage of the cache itself and a courtesy to the owner and other finders. I like to know when people visited my cache and want them to know i was here today and enjoyed. By the same token if there was a problem with the cache and i dont log for 3 days, how many others will be there hunting it since they were unaware of a problem? And same goes to the FTF hunters mentioned by another above. Although someone points out that Jeremy said he will never charge access to the databases, i dont think restricting them would be a bad idea. At least till the speed issues are resolved. Sometimes restrictions are what it takes to get people to open up their moth encrusted wallets and put out a couple dollars for the enjoyment they have in hand. I am sure most people would argee that $30 a year or 60 cents a week is worth the amount they get back from here. Just my opinion.

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Just by way of information Jeremy is aware of the problem and is working on it. Just so others are aware each week the web site is hitting a new record number of posts..

The problem with slow speed is not on this server and with all the posts here. I believe it is with another sever that has the website itself. I think 30.00 per year is a fair price for what you get as a premium member. I agree that you should not force people to pay, but a nag screen after 60 days or something is probably reasonable.

 

I tried to use the web site yesterday and had real bad luck. I was not logging finds, just was the only day I had real time available to try to learn and do some things. I have also seen a couple of complaints from people using laptops while on a search and not being able to get the site to work. That would be tough.

 

Also, even though Sunday certainly is the worst, I have noticed that the site can be slow at other times also.

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"Posts" was referring to new or changed information being submitted to the database server, which is the source of the slowdowns. For example, 115,475 logs were submitted in the week prior to the time of this post, by 21,797 account holders. Topping 100,000 logs or 20,000 cachers in a week would've been laughed at three years ago. That's very close to one log every five seconds, all week long. On top of that is all the searching, querying and other hits on the database.

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One I work with database, as a developer, the more people you trying to work on them the slower. Two is band width going in IT COST MONEY!!!! The three dollars a month is not much.

The last thing that this stikes me at is the selfishness that people have expressed here. I got in last night from caching from 8:30 in morning to 7:00 at night I wanted to log my finds but it was SLOW. So I just went and ate dinner and put the list of logs in my bag so I could log it today. Why is that so hard. But what I hear is I WANT TO DO IT NOW. What a selfish lot. Sorry if I tread on anyone toes but your not paying a whole lot for what you get. I am a premium member for one reason POCKET QUERIES that I run during the week. But I'll try to log my finds on Mondays so some people can have it their way.

Sorry but the truth is well the truth.

cheers

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What a selfish lot.

Uh, what's so selfish about wanting to log a cache on the day you found it, especially if it's been compromised in some way (missing, muggled, etc)? I want to let other cachers know my experience and/or alert the owner to possible problems so that others don't waste their time. It's common courtesy, not selfishness. Geez.

 

I'm on the west coast and find that after about 11 pm on Saturday and Sunday nights the site speeds up enough that I can log my finds for the day. I always try to log my Saturday finds that day for the benefit of the people going after them on Sunday.

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On topic:

I bandwith were a problem, TPTB would propbly have chosen to limit the size/number of pictures uploaded to the server.

 

Off topic:

But golly gee, it takes me 4 times longer to log my finds as it does to find them.

Try some of our literature caches - that'll teach you... :unsure:

 

BS/2

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I am too lazy to markwell but bandwidth is NOT NOT NOT a problem.

well then...what IS, IS, IS the problem?

 

nfa-jamie

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As much as I would hate to use it, I think that offline logging with submission by e-mail has it's merits.

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If we could have a generic page that we would enter the GCid into and the log would go to the right cache. that would be cool.

 

EDIT: I mean a log page.

Edited by ralann

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I am too lazy to markwell but bandwidth is NOT NOT NOT a problem.

well then...what IS, IS, IS the problem?

 

nfa-jamie

Okay if it is not bandwidth then it is simple database performance. When you put in a query for data the harddrives on the server have to move from where they are to where they need to be to find the data. There is only such RAM that the database can cache in. This is the problem with ALL database but better hardware can bring some rememdy to the problem to a point. I am not sure what type of database GC uses. maybe MySQL or what. But it is expensive for storage space as well, abpit $100,000.oo a terabyte. This is not the cheep stuff you buy off the shelf that would break down within a fewdays with the loads that I am sure GC experiances. Servers cost about $30,000.00 for a barebones system so get multi processors etc.... with gigs of onboard ran is expnesive up to $60,000.00+. They are probable not using the top end I have seen very little if no downtime for GC other then routine maintenance and VERY LITTLE of that in about the last year. I am sure they are working on it.

 

But the spirit of most the post I have read thought putting in a altuistic plug seem to be very me I want to do it NOW orientated. Sorry but that is what I hear well read.

cheers

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We haven't had any real angst in a while.  Slow servers on Sunday is a tradition here.  Like Carleen, your finds won't disappear if they aren't logged on Sunday.

Save your logs as a word document and post them on Monday or Tuesday.

 

Team Techmage, many of us remember when the baby was born, but where are some more recent photos? What’s up with that?

What is this? Cyber stocking??? :unsure:

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Servers cost about $30,000.00 for a barebones system so get multi processors etc.... with gigs of onboard ran is expnesive up to $60,000.00+.

Actually, Friendster is handling millions of page views, queries, users on White box systems that I'll be don't cost anywhere near that much...

 

From an excellent article on their performance issues: "During the summer of 2003, Friendster was plagued by performance issues. Often, the millions of users pounding the site where unable to access it, and when they could, results were inconsistent from page to page. "

 

Deja vu.

 

Friendster scales the network with open source

 

To echo the sentiment that keeps flying around...everyone appreciates what TPTB have been able to accomplish with limited manpower and for fairly low cost to users.

 

At the same time, why should I not be able to use the site as it's intended - to search for caches and log my finds when I'm ready? I don't think it's selfish to be able to log finds on a Sunday evening. Maybe I'm headed on vacation, maybe I work all week and don't get online then, maybe I just like to get things wrapped up while I'm thinking about it....users shouldn't need to change their basic actions to overcome site limitations like this!

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But what I hear is I WANT TO DO IT NOW. What a selfish lot.

I don't think its selfsh at all. I do appreciate what has been accomplished with what they have to this point. But like everything else there comes a time when its just not keeping up. I am not blaming anyone or trying to complain too much, but i dont think selfish is what we should be labeled as. You pay for phone service monthly. If you need to make a call and can't get a dial tone because your neighbor is using your phone line for free. Would you wait patiently till Tuesday to make your call? Should you have to. Like everything in life, those who pay move to the front. When times are good no one cares if anyone is paying. When times are like this we want what we paid for. I pay for the PQ and i do feel the need to help the site with their costs of me using their site. But when they set the costs and i pay them, then i expect a certain level of service. I don't think the level of service of "i would like to log my caches today" is an unrealistic request. I'm very sorry if this comes across as being selfish to you.

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For example, 115,475 logs were submitted in the week prior to the time of this post, by 21,797 account holders.  Topping 100,000 logs or 20,000 cachers in a week would've been laughed at three years ago.

You seem to be arguing that the site is undergoing an increase in traffic that could not have been foreseen. Just for the sake of curiosity, by exactly how much do you think traffic (as measured by the number of new logs) has increased since the same time a year ago? How much since last November, when the last major upgrade occurred?

 

I know the number; I just wondering if anyone else has any idea, or is arguing out of any knowledge of the facts, instead of emotion.

Edited by fizzymagic

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For example, 115,475 logs were submitted in the week prior to the time of this post, by 21,797 account holders.  Topping 100,000 logs or 20,000 cachers in a week would've been laughed at three years ago.

You seem to be arguing that the site is undergoing an increase in traffic that could not have been foreseen. Just for the sake of curiosity, by exactly how much do you think traffic (as measured by the number of new logs) has increased since the same time a year ago? How much since last November, when the last major upgrade occurred?

 

I know the number; I just wondering if anyone else has any idea, or is arguing out of any knowledge of the facts, instead of emotion.

I know you've been tracking this, so you have an exact figure, but if memory serves me correct, the amount of weekly logs is a bit more then double since November.

 

EDIT: OK, I'm slightly off. Looks like in Nov. 2004 they were getting 65,000-70,000 logs a week. I know the site has exceeded 120,000 logs by mid-week the last few weeks. So not quite doubled.

 

A random sampling of the summer of 2004 appears the amount of logs stayed pretty steady around the 70,000/week mark.

Summer of 2003 was less then 30,000 logs a week. It would appear site use has increased almost five-fold in 2yrs.

Edited by Mopar

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Other than to turn up the angst-o-matic up a notch, what is the point to this thread?

 

A quick search will find that Jeremy had this to say about it just a few weeks ago...

I'm working on some logging optimization so the site performs better. Unfortunately the Mondays and Sunday afternoons have become a huge peak time for logging, while the rest of the week is pretty good.

 

So, TPTB are aware of and are working on the problem.

 

Beyond this, a number of people have offered a work-around until this issue can be fixed. This temporary solution is to simply wait a few days until you log your finds. Mid-week almost never has problems. Is this the preferred solution, of course not. It is human nature to want things when we want them. However, as a temporary solution, its great. Its simple and it allows for quick and easy logging.

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Why not limit access on the weekends to people whose accounts have been active less than a couple of months? These are the people who are debating whether or not to spend the money on a membership; hassle-free access might help encourage them to pay. Plus, I would imagine that most newcomers will try to access the database on a weekend so, from a business perspective, it makes sense to cater to them as well. A large percentage of people that have not paid after a few months probably never will so there's really no need to bend over backwards fixing the problem for them; and, those who have paid really don't need weekend access.

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Why not limit access on the weekends to people whose accounts have been active less than a couple of months? These are the people who are debating whether or not to spend the money on a membership

 

and, those who have paid really don't need weekend access.

So treat the people thinking about giving you money better than the ones who already do is a good buisness decision? I'm not sure that would work in any business yet alone a service. You would have to attract enough new customers to fill the spots vacated by the ones who left because of the lack of service and then pick up more to increase your buisness. Better yet is keep those you have happy and just word of mouth will increase your numbers. I would never rely on people who are browsing to decide. They make their decisions based by what alot of premiuims say the benefits are. Just look for the various threads as to why people are premium. Most will tell your PQ's and to help support the site. Stopping them/us from having access on weekends would be about the worse thing that could happen. Just not a good solution.

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Why not limit access on the weekends to people whose accounts have been active less than a couple of months? These are the people who are debating whether or not to spend the money on a membership; hassle-free access might help encourage them to pay. Plus, I would imagine that most newcomers will try to access the database on a weekend so, from a business perspective, it makes sense to cater to them as well. A large percentage of people that have not paid after a few months probably never will so there's really no need to bend over backwards fixing the problem for them; and, those who have paid really don't need weekend access.

So give n00bies all the access on the weekends and limit access to the paying members because they don't need it? :unsure:;) Something seems pretty far outta wack with that theory, but I just cant put my finger on it. :D Yeah, that just ain't gonna happen.

 

Yeah I wish the servers were faster, but I know what kind of load they see on the weekend and I don't need to log my finds the same day. Heck, I've logged caches sometimes weeks later. A find is a find, no matter when you log it.

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