International Cito Day

[+The Forester]

From the Geocaching.com front page:

April 16 is Cache In Trash Out Day

Every April, geocachers around the world get together and clean up their local parks. It's just one way we can contribute to the maintenance of our outdoor spaces and to say "thanks" to the land managers that help to make our parks a great place for geocaching.

 

There are CITO events tomorrow in the Czech Republic; Denmark; Finland; Germany; Luxembourg; Netherlands; New Zealand; Norway; Sweden; and Switzerland.

 

Is there one anywhere in Scotland?

 

I've been patiently negotiating cache-placement permission with a major landowner in Scotland and at the suggestion of a forum member I've used the CITO concept as a sweetener. This morning I've received an email from him asking about Scottish/British involvement in the International event and the attitudes shown by Scottish geocachers to CITO events in actual practice.

 

Can anyone help me with any indictation that Scottish geocachers have ever taken part in the International CITO event days. Has there ever been a CITO Event Day in Scotland? Perhaps on a day other that the official GC.com appointed day?

 

I'd appreciate any help anyone can give me with any information which indicates that the Scottish geocachers as enthusiastic about CITO as the cachers in the above listed countries apparently are. It would be very helpful in persuading the owner and the Factor of at least one very large estate in Scotland that the CITO thing is something other than lip-service. Litter really isn't a problem on that particular estate, but at many other places in Scotland, particularly in the lowlands, where there are existing caches, litter is readily visible.

 

 

Cheers, The Forester

[+snaik]

What a great idea your organise an event i'll turn up!

 

Snaik

[+Brenin Tegeingl]

Sounds like it's time for you to organise a CTO event. These are the one event cachers seem to shy away from organising in the UK, but I can promise from personal experiance, that if you organise one people will attend. unfortunatly whilst not in Scotland I'm in the process of organising one, and have contacted local CC's to nominate areas for a CITO event. And I know another cacher is considering one. Time for you to break the mold and be proactive regarding CITO.

 

Dave

[+perth pathfinders]

What a great idea!

 

Look forward to you organising such an event, and look forward to seeing your new caches.

 

cheers

[+Team Clova]

Yep - we'll be in that one!

 

Just let us know when you've organised the day and place! - we'll be there!

 

Thanks!

[+mongoose39uk]

Yep

 

Looks like the Forester has volunteered himself for organising a CITO

 

Cheers

 

Tony

[+The Forester]

It looks like there is some enthusiasm for a Scots CITO. Three volunteers in well under an hour, all of whom are infrequent posters to this forum; and that's during business hours hours on a weekday. It's a good sign! If we can get some of the Weegie and Embra cachers interested too, then it looks like we could make this thing work.

 

A bit late to cobble something together for this year's International CITO thingy, but not too early to out together some kind of plan for next year or for doing one of our own before the official GC.com one.

 

Location: TBA, but somewhere in the Clyde/Forth/Tay area seems logical.

Date: TBA.

 

Looks like the Forester has volunteered himself for organising a CITO

It feels like The Forester has been volunteered, but what the he11. It looks like we could do some good and have some fun while doing it. A satisfactory alternative to the prohibited act of charitable caching, I'd say.

 

Cheers, The Forester

[+The Forester]

These are the one event cachers seem to shy away from organising in the UK, but I can promise from personal experience, that if you organise one people will attend.

Thanks for the encouragement, Dave.

[+Brenin Tegeingl]

Thanks for the encouragement, Dave.

 

No thanks needed mate , but don't leave it until next year, there's another 8 months of this year yet . Hopefully your have more luck with the Scottish press in publicising geocaching and CITO than I did with the Welsh press .

 

Dave

[+klaus23]

You're not alone in Scotland having a CITO day. There's none in Ireland either. I don't think anyone was aware, at least it never came up in discussion. We did talk about having an event last year, but interest was limited.

[+The Forester]

I'm putting together an idea for a CITO event in Edinburgh for Sunday 24th April.

 

Initial schedule would be to start work on the Trash Out part in a riverine environment and its associated path) at 10:00am BST sharp. Only two or three hours of work. Much equipment will be provided and a skip will be appropriately located for proper disposal of the gathered trash. Then the Cache In bit afterwards.

 

To give me an idea of numbers and to assess whther there's enough interest, anyone who might be willing to attend, please let me know soonest as I've already started initial negotiations with the appropiate authorities and I need to know the scale of what facilities I need to organise.

 

I'd also appreciate it if any of the Embra area cachers would volunteer to place some slightly unusual caches beforehand. I'll explain the idea privately.

 

Either pop your name on this thread or drop me an email, please.

 

Thankyou.

[+G Force]

A couple weeks later I would be able to attend and assist. It seems I'm offshore for the Scottish events and am beginning to wonder if they plan them that way???

[+Team Ullium]

I'm putting together an idea for a CITO event in Edinburgh for Sunday 24th April.

 

Initial schedule would be to start work on the Trash Out part in a riverine environment and its associated path) at 10:00am BST sharp. Only two or three hours of work. Much equipment will be provided and a skip will be appropriately located for proper disposal of the gathered trash. Then the Cache In bit afterwards.

 

To give me an idea of numbers and to assess whther there's enough interest, anyone who might be willing to attend, please let me know soonest as I've already started initial negotiations with the appropiate authorities and I need to know the scale of what facilities I need to organise.

 

I'd also appreciate it if any of the Embra area cachers would volunteer to place some slightly unusual caches beforehand. I'll explain the idea privately.

 

Either pop your name on this thread or drop me an email, please.

 

Thankyou.

If we can possibly make it ... Angela and I will be up for this event

 

And I am very surprised no one has organised one before now!!!

But perhaps there has been one before we got involved with geocaching ???

[+Jan and the Percey Boys]

Come on Dave the boys are hoping to use CITO to get a green Blue Peter badge!!!

 

Bob

[+Haggis Hunter]

I'm putting together an idea for a CITO event in Edinburgh for Sunday 24th April.

 

I'd also appreciate it if any of the Embra area cachers would volunteer to place some slightly unusual caches beforehand. I'll explain the idea privately.

 

Either pop your name on this thread or drop me an email, please.

I'm actually working on the 24th April, but if I can get time off, then I will definitely turn up, otherwise it will be after 3pm before I could make it, and I don't think that would be fair on everyone else.

 

I'm afraid that I can't offer to place any caches, as I do a 9 day shift cycle, my first shift starts tonight and my last one is on the 24th. So I just wouldn't be able to place any caches during this time. All of my caches get placed on my days off S rry.

 

I know that the Water of Leith are organising a clean up day soon, so if this is the place that you are thinking of, I suggest that you speak to them. It would be a waste of time to follow in their footsteps, or them in ours.

 

Once the cache page is up, I will try and get the day booked off, but it is only 9 days away, for non forums readers to come along it will have to be posted sooner rather than later.

[+Haggis Hunter]

Forester, you should also explain to the land owner, that CITO doesn't just mean an event has to be organised, it also means that cachers that find rubbish lying about, whilst caching, will pick that rubbish up and remove it from the area.

Now I am the first to admit, that I don't practice this at every single cache that I visit, espescially City centre ones, as that is what I pay a hefty Council Tax for, but I have been known to remove rubbish from rural areas, and I know other cachers that practice in a similar way.

[+The Forester]

I've put some further thought and work into the notion that we hold a Scottish CITO event.

 

The location needs to fit several criteria:

It needs to be somewhere which is easy to get to for the people who are most likely to attend. That suggests the Forth/Tay/Clyde general area.

It needs to be somewhere which is of proven interest to geocachers.

It needs to be a place which has a known litter problem.

It needs to be quite soon, before the explosive growth of summer vergetation causes weeds to obscure the trash.

It needs to be a place where Geocaching's public reputation can be enhanced by furthering good relations with important landowners such as a Cooncil or a Trust or both.

It needs to be somewhere where the CITO participants can retire to a suitably nearby child-friendly hostelry for a swally after the litter-picking and/or after the caching.

Because I have zero experience of organising such a Geocaching gig before, it's best if I keep the organisation as simple as possible and make the best use of any existing or improvised infrastructure.

 

I came up with an idea which fits all seven of those criteria and I held exploratory talks with the appropriate authorities late on Friday afternoon. I talked to about half a dozen of the right people in Edinburgh Council and the Water of Leith Conservation Trust. They are interested in pro-actively co-operating with us, such as by providing a designated stretch of the river for us to work. They will provide us with material assistance, such as litter-grabbing tools, waders, suitably stout disposal bags, barrows and other handling equipment, and a skip to be pre-positioned for us to offload the collected garbage into, which will be taken away to the landfill site by Council workmen so that we don't have to take home a quarter ton of stinky oozey jaggy or bulky junk in our cars.

 

I canvassed all of the owners of caches within 20 miles of the proposed location, suggesting next Sunday as a date and received replies from all of the major players in the Edinburgh with the exception of one who is away on an extended cycling/geocaching tour of the East coast.

 

I've very carefully considered all of the responses to my straw poll about us holding a CITO Event and I've formed three very clear conclusions from the minimalist consultation exercise:

 

#1 There is clearly a good deal of support for the idea that we have a Scottish CITO event -- and soon.

 

#2 8 or 9 days notice of such an event is hopelessly inadequate. Most of the people who dearly wish to attend have already made arrangements for that weekend and really need much more notice.

 

#3 The basic gameplan is sound, but the timeline needs to be slid at least a fortnight to the right.

 

So, here's what I now propose. Let's consider and discuss holding the event on Sunday the 8th of May. The new location is a bit downriver of the one I mentioned earlier, very close to the 'Colony Co-op' cache, and 'our' patch will be downstream from there to a footbridge which I'll describe to you later. There's a tiny wee complication in confirming that location, as it depends on the American Ladies Residents Association of Stockbridge confirming their plans. If those ladies change their minds, we will alter our location to a stretch even further down the river, on the same date (Sunday the 8th of May), near the now defunct 'Bramble Path' cachesite, but I'll give everybody plenty of notice if that is going to happen.

 

Format for the day: Start work at 10:00am sharp, after a formal Safety Briefing. Only two or three hours of trash hauling, as mucky or as prissy as you like, then a washup and perhaps a wee drink and then a little bit of light geocaching. This is a CITO Event, not a bash.

 

Could anyone who is willing and able to turn up for a CITO event in Edinburgh on Sunday the 8th of May please let me know, either by a post here or by email via my profile or direct to my personal email address.

 

Thankyou.

 

The Forester

[+G Force]

I'll be able to attend on the 8th of May.

[+The Forester]

I'll be able to attend on the 8th of May.

Excellent!

 

Good to have you aboard.

[60North]

I remember reading somewhere an idea suggested by a Geocacher, but whether they were a UK Geocacher or a "foreigner" (said in the most unxenophobic Michael Howard tone), I can't remember.

 

They suggested putting a film canister in all caches where one could fit. Inside the canister could be placed a small pedal bin liner and notes about what CITO is all about. I suppose that one could even go as far as putting a CITO label on the outside of the pot.

 

A little advertising can go a long way!

[+Brenin Tegeingl]

I have a multi with a bonus cache which contains a log book and CITO containers, it's not logable on line, but most finders have gone on to find it and sign the log. The containers are 35mm canisters with a carrier bag inside (recycling and CITO at the same time) the label on the outside asks the taker to use the bag for CITO refill and place in another cache, it also has the web addresses of GC, GAGB and G:UK. The film canisters came from a local Photo shop who just throw them out and the bags from the family shopping, CITO means they are recycled and not just going straight to fill up a land fill.

 

And I got the idea off the forums

 

Dave

[+John Stead]

Good luck on 8th May - sorry its a bit far for me especially as I will be off on hols a couple of days later.

[+The Forester]

Cheers, John. Your good wishes are appreciated.

 

This CITO thing is worthwhile.

 

Cheers, The Forester

[+marmal]

I'm glad the date has moved to 8th May as I'd be struggling for this Sunday!

 

Put me down for an appearance. But I don't think the river is deep enough for a dive though!

 

Having walked the length of the Water of Leith Walkway last year - with a lot of excellent company - it will good to put a little something back, by taking something away... Does that make any sense? It's getting past my bedtime!

 

See you there!

[+wildlifewriter]

There's a tiny wee complication in confirming that location, as it depends on the American Ladies Residents Association of Stockbridge confirming their plans.

Interesting.

 

How could the actions of a non-existent organisation possibly affect the location of a cache event?

 

Is there a problem with the location...

 

... or was the location chosen, to cause a problem?

 

Interesting.

[+The Forester]

it will good to put a little something back, by taking something away

Nice thought, Marmal!

 

I like it so much that I've unashamedly plagiarised your comment on the cachepage of Scotland's First CITO Event.

 

The date is now confirmed as Sunday the 8th of May. The kickoff time is 10:00am sharp, at the nether end of Redbraes Grove.

 

The Murricane wimmins club, whose very existence WlW so bizarrely denies, have called off their river cleanup for that date, but as so many of their members live in Stockbridge and because they have had so much pleasure walking the Rocheid path, they want to bag that stretch of the river. We have therefore moved the location for our CITO event downriver somewhat.

 

It is quite common in America for social and charitable clubs, such as the Rotarians and masonic lodges, to 'adopt' a particular stretch of highway and to undertake to keep it clean and to prettify it by tree-planting and sowing approved wild seeds. The American Women's Club which I mentioned feel the same way about 'their' stretch of the Water of Leith, so the geocachers' bit will be elsewhere, now that the ladies will not be doing their thing on our day.

 

Good to have you aboard, marmal. See you there!

 

Cheers, The Forester

[+wildlifewriter]

The American Women's Club which I mentioned feel the same way about 'their' stretch of the Water of Leith, so the geocachers' bit will be elsewhere,

Ah, yes - the American Women's Club - of whom we all have heard.

 

I'm sure that THEY would have no objection to your original co-ordinates being identical to one of their existing caches a local clean-up along the river.

 

Keep up the good work.

[+Haggis Hunter]

I'm sorry this has got me curious and annoyed me slightly, so I have brought it over to the correct thread, as I felt that it was an attempt of a thread drift on 'The Mag topic', and thread drifts are something that I know you are totally against Forester.

 

I hope the regional co-ordinator for Scotland will participate in and actively support Scotland's First CITO Event.

 

GCNJW0

 

Cheers, The Forester

 

I really think that you have got a brass neck to post this comment.

 

The person in mention has supported 10 Events since she has started this hobby. 7 of those have been in Scotland.

 

You on the other hand have supported 1 in your time of doing this. None of which have been in Scotland.

Despite sending me an email saying that you didn't attend my event at Ratho because I didn't give you a mention on the list of people who where going, and that you didn't feel welcomed by this.

Please remind me where you actually said you where going to attend. I do remember you saying something along the lines of "This is great and the essence of Geocaching" but you didn't say you were coming!!

 

I am sorry but I am also curious to why your first attempt to getting this great CITO event up and running was going to be no more than 50 metres away from one of the above persons Geocaches.

When the dates weren't suitable you changed the start co-ordinates funnily enough to the start point to one of her Multi's. You then sent myself and another Scottish geocacher many emails saying that she was ruining your attempts to uploading the cache page. What did you want her to do 'Archive her cache so that you could have your event?'

 

Now that you have got your event up and running, (which I sincerely hope goes to plan) you have chosen the start point next to one of her archived caches, nothing wrong with that! But what I feel is wrong, is that you do know where she lives and you just so happen to arranged the event about 5 minutes from her house.

 

The Water of Leith walk is 12 miles long. I can't help thinking that all of this, just so happens to be a coincidence. Espescially when it is common knowledge that the two of you are not on talking terms.

 

I am available on the 8th of May, but with knowledge from private emails from yourself, I am uneasy for the reasons that this event has been put together. I will have to think hard on whether it runs with ethics and my principles to attend this event or not.

Which is a sad thing to say, as I have many caches on this river and would like to give something back to the conservation trust that was so accommodating on the putting together of the cache trail.

 

Also why is there now two topics on this event, is this partricular one getting a bit heated perhaps????

 

[+klaus23]

hmm... this is getting rather interesting

 

*sits back, and waits*

[+Team Ullium]

Unfortunately I may not be available to attend on the 8th of May as I expect to incapacitated somewhat round about that date!

 

However, even if it is possible for me to attend I will need to consider carefully the motives for choosing the venue for this event. Like Haggis Hunter I suspect this location and the previous one were just too much of a coincidence....especially with these not too subtle references to American Ladies Residence Associations or whatever this so called club is being named at present.

 

This whole idea of a Scottish CITO, which most of the Scottish geocachers welcomed with open arms when it was first proposed, must now be giving anyone who said they would attend room for second thoughts. Which is a grave shame because had it's organisation been conducted in a proper manner I am certain it would have been not only well attended but a resounding success.

Edited April 22, 2005 by Team Ullium

[+The Forester]

Haggis Hinter's bizarre conspiracy theory is quite simply wrong.

 

In putting together the CITO event I had several constraints. My first proposed date was this coming Sunday. By a ratio of about 4:1 most of those who replied said that they had prior engagements, but would otherwise like to attend. Those engagements varied from rostered work commitments to selling a house to conducting job interviews, there was even one chap who is booked to abseil off the Forth Bridge on that date!

 

I therefore re-examined all the available dates. In my opinion the months of June through September are not the best time to do a CITO because the very thick undergrowth will make seeing and collecting trash avoidably difficult. Ideally, April would have been the optimum month, but I was much too late in starting to plan this CITO event to make good use of any of the April weekends.

 

That leaves only May. I carefully considered all 5 weekends of that month.

 

Sun 30th -- ruled out because there is a major bash planned for Scotland for that weekend.

 

Sun 22nd -- the middle management and management trainees of a major supermarket chain have reserved that day. They have a corporate policy of requiring their people to spend at least one day a year engaged on a 'voluntary' community service project. This day is that day for them, so it is effectively ruled out for us.

 

Sun 15th -- the Conservation Trust co-ordinator(s) will be away attending a trade fair that weekend. I am unwilling to fund the cost of hiring a skip and ensuring that it is taken away promptly to avoid local neds howking the thing back into the river. I also would not want to have to foot the bill for providing hundreds of Pounds worth of handling equipment and protective gear such as waders. Therefore, that weekend is also ruled out.

 

Sun 1st -- This weekend has been reserved by the employees of a major life assurance company who are doing the Canonmills stretch of the river. Anyway, the lesson I learned from my first proposed date is that as much notice as possible is very important so that people can make an entry for the date in their diary.

 

That leaves only one feasible date -- Sunday the 8th of May.

 

The Trust people are the ones who know best which stretches of the river have been cleaned up most recently and they know best which stretches are most in need of a fresh cleanup. They also know which stretches, such as the one favoured by the American ladies of Stockbridge and the Canonmills one which is favoured by the people who work in the Standard Life building and the Belford Mill Weir which is being attended to by the members of the adjacent Edinburgh Sports Club are already spoken for.

 

While the American ladies of Stockbridge had provisonally made a booking for 'our' date, which was subject to confirmation or change, I was reluctant to submit the cachepage to the approvers as I knew that their work of assessing the page might be completely wasted if the American ladies withdrew. Within an hour of those ladies withdrawing late yesterday afternoon, I was in touch with the Trust people who explained that Rocheid Path (the bit between Inverleith and the Colonies) is reserved for the Stockbridge ladies.

 

The stretch of the river which has been allocated to us has been selected solely on its own merits.

 

Once I had the full details of our stretch, I submitted the cachepage and I'm very grateful to Ecky for approving it so very promptly. It was less than an hour from the trust giving us the details to Ecky reviewing the page and authorising it to go live.

 

Any conspiracy theory that the Trust has taken into account the location of any cache when allocating individual stretches of cleanup to individual groups is quite simply bonkers.

 

No doubt the conspiracy theorists will try to make some kind of issue out of the fact that the weir chosen for this Sunday's cleanup is extremely close to the 'Other Side of Edinburgh' cache, just as they've tried to make an issue out of the American ladies choice of the Falshaw Bridge as the most appropriate starting point for their cleanup session. Perhaps the conspiracy theorists will try to make some kind of mischief out of the fact that our allocated stretch of the river just happens to be pretty much slap bang in the middle of what is probably the longest cacheless stretch of the river below Balerno. I get the impression that they'd find something to complain about, no matter which stretch of the river had been allocated to us.

 

The conspiracy theorists are quite simply wrong. There is no conspiracy. There are no ulterior motives. The location has been selected by the Trust on its own merits, nothing else.

 

Both the Trust people and I have been doing our level best to pick the best date and place for Scotland's first CITO event. I hope that all geocachers (including the conspiracy theorists, in fact *especially* the conspiracy theorists) who are able to attend and participate will sign up on the cachepage.

 

Cheers, The Forester

[+Haggis Hunter]

The Fester (oops sorry your habit of changing people's names is catching on), If I am a conspiracy theorist, then I wouldn't like to say what you are???

 

I have got some unpleasant reading emails several pages long, that have came from you, all about one person only.

 

I won't list them here, as they don't make pleasant reading, but as they are all geocaching related, or so you think, I will forward them on to anyone who requests them. Then they can make their mind up for themselves.

 

I don't expect to be on here for a while, as I expect a ban for this posting.

 

Cache well everyone

[+Haggis Hunter]

Why did you delete this innocent post????

[+Team Ullium]

Haggis Hinter's bizarre conspiracy theory is quite simply wrong.

 

In putting together the CITO event I had several constraints. My first proposed date was this coming Sunday. By a ratio of about 4:1 most of those who replied said that they had prior engagements, but would otherwise like to attend. Those engagements varied from rostered work commitments to selling a house to conducting job interviews, there was even one chap who is booked to abseil off the Forth Bridge on that date!

 

I therefore re-examined all the available dates. In my opinion the months of June through September are not the best time to do a CITO because the very thick undergrowth will make seeing and collecting trash avoidably difficult. Ideally, April would have been the optimum month, but I was much too late in starting to plan this CITO event to make good use of any of the April weekends.

 

That leaves only May. I carefully considered all 5 weekends of that month.

 

Sun 30th -- ruled out because there is a major bash planned for Scotland for that weekend.

 

Sun 22nd -- the middle management and management trainees of a major supermarket chain have reserved that day. They have a corporate policy of requiring their people to spend at least one day a year engaged on a 'voluntary' community service project. This day is that day for them, so it is effectively ruled out for us.

 

Sun 15th -- the Conservation Trust co-ordinator(s) will be away attending a trade fair that weekend. I am unwilling to fund the cost of hiring a skip and ensuring that it is taken away promptly to avoid local neds howking the thing back into the river. I also would not want to have to foot the bill for providing hundreds of Pounds worth of handling equipment and protective gear such as waders. Therefore, that weekend is also ruled out.

 

Sun 1st -- This weekend has been reserved by the employees of a major life assurance company who are doing the Canonmills stretch of the river. Anyway, the lesson I learned from my first proposed date is that as much notice as possible is very important so that people can make an entry for the date in their diary.

 

That leaves only one feasible date -- Sunday the 8th of May.

 

The Trust people are the ones who know best which stretches of the river have been cleaned up most recently and they know best which stretches are most in need of a fresh cleanup. They also know which stretches, such as the one favoured by the American ladies of Stockbridge and the Canonmills one which is favoured by the people who work in the Standard Life building and the Belford Mill Weir which is being attended to by the members of the adjacent Edinburgh Sports Club are already spoken for.

 

While the American ladies of Stockbridge had provisonally made a booking for 'our' date, which was subject to confirmation or change, I was reluctant to submit the cachepage to the approvers as I knew that their work of assessing the page might be completely wasted if the American ladies withdrew. Within an hour of those ladies withdrawing late yesterday afternoon, I was in touch with the Trust people who explained that Rocheid Path (the bit between Inverleith and the Colonies) is reserved for the Stockbridge ladies.

 

The stretch of the river which has been allocated to us has been selected solely on its own merits.

 

Once I had the full details of our stretch, I submitted the cachepage and I'm very grateful to Ecky for approving it so very promptly. It was less than an hour from the trust giving us the details to Ecky reviewing the page and authorising it to go live.

 

Any conspiracy theory that the Trust has taken into account the location of any cache when allocating individual stretches of cleanup to individual groups is quite simply bonkers.

 

No doubt the conspiracy theorists will try to make some kind of issue out of the fact that the weir chosen for this Sunday's cleanup is extremely close to the 'Other Side of Edinburgh' cache, just as they've tried to make an issue out of the American ladies choice of the Falshaw Bridge as the most appropriate starting point for their cleanup session. Perhaps the conspiracy theorists will try to make some kind of mischief out of the fact that our allocated stretch of the river just happens to be pretty much slap bang in the middle of what is probably the longest cacheless stretch of the river below Balerno. I get the impression that they'd find something to complain about, no matter which stretch of the river had been allocated to us.

 

The conspiracy theorists are quite simply wrong. There is no conspiracy. There are no ulterior motives. The location has been selected by the Trust on its own merits, nothing else.

 

Both the Trust people and I have been doing our level best to pick the best date and place for Scotland's first CITO event. I hope that all geocachers (including the conspiracy theorists, in fact *especially* the conspiracy theorists) who are able to attend and participate will sign up on the cachepage.

 

Cheers, The Forester

I accept all your reasons Forester for choosing that particular date!

 

I also apologise for suspecting that 'The American Ladies of Stockbridge' was a reference to the fact that you emailed me accusing one particular American lady, who lives very close to your chosen venue, of purposely holding up your progress of organising this event!! So I think HH and myself could be forgiven if we suspected this very co-incidental reference to American Ladies !!

 

I still think, under the circumstances of your very negative feelings about this lady, that your choice of venue was to say the least unfortunate ??

 

With at least 12 miles to choose from one would imagine that this stretch of river (which already apparently had a clean-up event scheduled on it) would have been the least appropriate ??

 

However I still would like to see this event be a resounding success and the forerunner of an annual Scottish event and if Angela and myself can be there we certainly will be.

[+The Forester]

Ullium,

 

The choice of venue was not mine.

 

The choice of venue is not mine.

 

I accepted both of the proffered venues without prejudice.

 

There was never any kind of ulterior motive, either on my part or on the part of the lady from the Conservation Trust.

 

The fact that my own mother was perhaps the first American lady to settle in Stockbridge (1954 in Ann Street, after migrating from New York with a Wee Man subsequently called 'The Forester' in tow) is the reason why I chuckled about the American ladies 'adopting' that stretch of the river. The fact that one of the last activities I shared with my mother before her very long and distressing fatal illness was a cleanout of a very deep hole in the riverbed about 5 metres upstream of the Falshaw Bridge is the reason why I chuckled about the American ladies of Stockbridge adopting that place as the starting point of their proposed trash out day.

 

Look forward to you being able to join us, Ullium.

 

Cheers, The Forester

[+The Forester]

Whoops! Double post.

 

Sorree

Edited April 22, 2005 by The Forester

[markandlynn]

hmm... this is getting rather interesting

 

*sits back, and waits* 

True

[+Team Ullium]

Of course I accept what you say is perfectly true Forester !

 

But given the background to your dispute with FoF don't you think that we might have been expected to jump to this conclusion and perhaps you could have been excused that by giving us this explanation and information from the onset that you have now put forward at this later date ???

 

That way we would have had the knowledge that all this was purely coincidental and instead of heaving a groan of 'what now' we could have shrugged our shoulders and got on with looking forward to this coming event with eager anticipation....which I certainly was when you first accepted the responsibility of organising it ??

 

You probably know I am speaking the truth as I have often encouraged you to attend our events and let sleeping dogs lie...so that we could all get on with our lives and in particular geocaching ??

[+The Forester]

Ullium,

 

I don' t understand your apparent suggestion that your named individual is in any way involved in the CITO event or is even remotely interested.

 

Nothing that person has ever said gives the slightest indication of any interest in anything so open or so inclusive or so altruistic as CITO.

 

What has that person got to do with CITO? Sadly, it would appear, not very much, if anything.

 

That's a pity.

 

Let's move on. There are plenty of geocachers who have expressed an interest in participating in the Scottish CITO event. Let's not let one malign or indifferent individual hold us back.

 

Let's get on with the CITO event, even if one individual wishes us no goodwill. If that person has a change of heart and decides to come aboard, then so much the better, but let's not hold our breath. Let's all get out there and CITO together.

 

 

Cheers, The Forester

[+Haggis Hunter]

Why did you delete this innocent post????        

Why haven't you had the decency to explain why this benign post was deleted??

 

What has that person got to do with CITO? Sadly, it would appear, not very much, if anything.

 

Well we know different don't we?? and I have the emails to prove it!!!

 

Let's not let one malign or indifferent individual hold us back.

 

This is a cruel and vicious attack on an individual who is held extremely high within the Scottish and British Geocaching community. How dare you say such a thing about anyone. I haven't even refered to you in such a downgrading cancerous way, why?? because it is just simply cruel.

 

I have the proof that you have a fixation with Firth of Forth and feed this so called war at every opportunity. Despite the pleas from myself and the other Geocacher involved.

 

Edited April 22, 2005 by Haggis Hunter

[+Eckington]

Gentlemen,

 

I know that you have very good reasons for the statements that you are making.

 

However these need to be made to each other either in PM's, in emails, in snail mails, by telephone or face to face.

 

This public forum is not the place for a small number of members to sort out personality clashes, especially when public discussion could very likely cause one of your number a great deal of distress.

 

If you chose to do that in public I can't help feeling you do not have that honour I believed you to have.

 

I do not want to issue warning blips, nor close the thread about an important and germaine matter, but if I need to I will.

 

Peace please.

 

Eckington

[+Firth of Forth]

A CITO is undoubtedly a very worth cause, and noone would disagree with that. It is lamentable that personal differences have got in the way of this event.

 

I have been maintaining a discreet silence, and would have continued to do so. It is however, a matter of great concern to me to find out through third parties that The Forester has been emailing others and threatening to file a formal complaint with g.com against me. For what?

 

Apparently I was in some inexplicable manner holding up the registration of the CITO event, by reason of being an American lady with a multi cache starting at his chosen event coordinates. Having received no communication from The Forester on any matter related to this event, I find this very odd.

 

However, a solution to whatever the problem was has apparently been found and the event is now up and running. I think that enough has now been said, and I sincerely hope that Scottish cachers (and others) will not let these matters influence their support for this event.

 

The Forester must let me be the judge of whether it is appropriate for me to attend or not.

[+G Force]

I do not want to get involved with the personality conflicts that have arisen and overtaken this event. I am still planning to attend just for the CITO event, meet some more Scottish cachers and bag some Edinburgh caches. As far as I'm concerned that's what it is all about.

 

For the record I did receive an email from Firth of Forth encouraging me to attend and offering me advice on the local caches.

 

As a bonus to the local cachers who do have caches hidden nearby I have come across this cache GCN7CM where they would fit the criteria to log it if they chose to attend.

[+Haggis Hunter]

Eckington, FoF, G Force,

 

All three of you are completed correct, and I think I have put my case across.

 

I am however confused to why these two notes have been deleted without any explanation from The Forester. If I am told they are wrong, out of taste or anything like that, then I will accept the fact.

Note 1

Note 2

 

Considering he had an abusive log deleted from a cache just before Christmas, and then kicked up all hell about it, I am confused to why he hasn't at least informed me why they have been deleted. I did ask earlier on in this thread, but he had chose to ignore this request.

 

For anyone that thinks that I am the person trying to be cruel and ridicule The Forester, then I request that you look at my early posts to this thread, as you will see I have been supportive, and i was supportive in my emails, until they took a different form.

 

I will see how the next couple of weeks go, as I may still turn up to this worthy cause. The WoL Conservation Trust are great people to negotiate with, I wouldn't want to see our names be blackened because of an in house dispute.

 

As has been requested in private before, let's get over the hang ups and have peace.

Edited April 22, 2005 by Haggis Hunter

[+Team Maddie UK]

We would like to wish the Forrester every success with this event. When I returned the other day from my latest hitch and spoke to him, it was great to hear him so enthusiastic about its organisation. I heard all of the details. His interaction with authorities, the changes in plan and so on. Having spent my youth in and around Edinburgh, indeed several years within a stones throw of the Water of Leith in Colinton and Currie, my memories tell me that this is most probably a very suitable location for a CITO.

 

It is so sad that after an intial encouraging response from several people he has been once again attacked. Lynn and I know only too well how much thought has to go into organising an event and to be rewarded for these efforts by what would appear to me to be unfounded and uncalled for accusations would be a crushing blow for anyone.

Although we live some distance away, if it were not for my having to return to work in Dorset next week we would have driven up and attended ourselves.

 

Good luck Mate,,, It'll be a good do!

 

Martin, Lynn and Maddie

[+Team Maddie UK]

As has been requested in private before, let's get over the hang ups and have peace.

 

Here! Here!

[+Haggis Hunter]

Peeps,

 

I know that I have put down some strong reservations for this event, but this is because I know things that go against my principles. This is a personal thing and has nothing to do with Geocaching at all.

 

I would like to see this event getting supported, not for the sake of The Forester, but because the Water of Leith Conservation Trust, must be spending a few hundred pounds on supplying the equipment and official personnel.

 

The WoL trust have been extremely accommodating on the placement of caches along it's river, in fact we don't even have to seek prior permission, I don't want this CITO event being a failure and the trust not trusting us again, and perhaps even removing our caches that are placed along the river.

 

For the sake of the Cache Trail and the name of Geocaching lets support this like any other Scottish Event.

 

Cheers

HH

[+Firth of Forth]

I canvassed all of the owners of caches within 20 miles of the proposed location, suggesting next Sunday as a date and received replies from all of the major players in the Edinburgh with the exception of one who is away on an extended cycling/geocaching tour of the East coast.

 

Unfortunately, The Forester did not canvass me, even though my caches are closest to where the event was proposed. I have received no emails from him through g.com about it.

 

"Let's not let one malign or indifferent individual hold us back."

 

This event will be clearing up on my doorstep. Please go everyone!

Edited April 23, 2005 by Firth of Forth

[Lactodorum]

So I'm back from holiday and I see that despite his sabbatical from forum moderation Eckington has been forced to step in to try and keep this thread within the forum guidelines.

 

I am well aware of a lot of the background issues which have not, and will not get aired here. However I am sick and tired already of the sniping and innuendo expressed by several correspondents here.

 

If you want to discuss the CITO event's logistics here please feel free to do so. If you want to discuss personality clashes then take it off line and use e-mails or PM's. Now I can devote more time to monitoring the UK forum I'll be actively moderating anything I'm unhappy with.

 

Censorship? Possibly. But I'm determined that the UK forum can maintain its reputation as one of the most friendly ones on the Groundspeak site.

[+Haggis Hunter]

Lactodorum, Eckington and everyone else, I am sorry for posting this, but this is getting tedious , and after 2 log deletions, and myself requesting on here for an explanation, and still not getting one. It has happened again!!!

 

First of all I posted these logs, Log 1, Log 2, with no reason offered for them being deleted.

 

I then posted this log, at the time of posting this, it had not been deleted. The Forester answered with this log, which I have read into that he is saying, "A great idea to have a cache, but you can place it, as I am not". So with this in mind I answered with this log. As you can see I have listed my reservations, explained that I am not able to do so, offered to list his new caches onto my own cache page for the Water of Leith, and most importantly offered an open invitation for communication on the matter. What he has done is delete this without any offer of an explanation, making it look that I am going to be placing caches for HIS event.

 

All I am asking for is an explanation, in private if need be, and an open acknowledgement that you are aware I am not going to place any caches along this stretch of the river.

 

I honestly do not think that is asking for too much, if it is then everyone please accept my apologies in advance.

 

Thank you

 

Haggis Hunter