+CharlieP Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I heard on the news today that Eric Rudolph has told authorities he made some of his bombs by packing nails around dynamite inside an ammo can. If this is true, and it gets wider news coverage, it may cause some problems. Quote Link to comment
+nfa Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 pvc and metal pipe companies still do ok... Quote Link to comment
+High-Tech Redneck Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 The concern wouldn't be about the availability of them rather bomb squads expoding mysterious ammo cans found laying around in the woods. Be sure and clearly mark your caches! Of course any of you terrorists lurking around here should completely ignore this Quote Link to comment
+sTeamTraen Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 That seems to be rather old news: Salon, 11/11/1998. Unfortunately an ammo can, especially with a good gasket, makes an excellent bomb container, as the pressure of the explosion has nowhere to go to. Compare it to the average teen's first efforts with chlorate and sugar in the weedkiller tin - it'll make a nice bang but the first thing to happen will be the lid blows off. I still think it comes down to cache placement. Anything bigger than a 35mm film can in an urban setting invites suspicion. On the other hand, ammo cans in the deep woods will only contain bombs if there's some new age terrorist group dedicated to not actually being very likely to hurt anyone. Quote Link to comment
+TetrAmigos Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Geez.. I'm sure he could have made an explosive out of a loaf of bread if he really wanted to. The only "problems" this could potentially cause is extra hysteria.. hysteria we don't need, so let's just move on. Quote Link to comment
PyroDave Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 That seems to be rather old news: Salon, 11/11/1998. Unfortunately an ammo can, especially with a good gasket, makes an excellent bomb container, as the pressure of the explosion has nowhere to go to. Compare it to the average teen's first efforts with chlorate and sugar in the weedkiller tin - it'll make a nice bang but the first thing to happen will be the lid blows off. I still think it comes down to cache placement. Anything bigger than a 35mm film can in an urban setting invites suspicion. On the other hand, ammo cans in the deep woods will only contain bombs if there's some new age terrorist group dedicated to not actually being very likely to hurt anyone. hey do you have a recipy for the shugar thing; but Seriously i wouldnt get to woried about it. Quote Link to comment
davwil Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Oh good GRIEF!!! I've heard a bomb is a good use for a bomb! Please STOP THIS! Mods Please? Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 If this is true, and it gets wider news coverage, it may cause some problems. OK, I'll bite. How so? Quote Link to comment
davwil Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Like I said, please stop this?!? Quote Link to comment
+M&DofKJE Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Geez.. I'm sure he could have made an explosive out of a loaf of bread if he really wanted to. The only "problems" this could potentially cause is extra hysteria.. hysteria we don't need, so let's just move on. But where would the news organizations be if there wasn't any hysteria? Look at how many people you are trying to put out of work! Now help keep the information/news sector of our economy strong by spreading this story and causing hysteria. You'll be helping America.... Quote Link to comment
davwil Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 (edited) Look, I have met ALOT of guys who work for a friendly government who actually have been trained to use the kind of things you are talking about and they know WAY more about anything you are are talking about... AND THEY DO NOT TALK ABOUT IT ON THE INTERNET... Got IT! edit: Oh yeah gotta change my avatar (oops). Edited April 14, 2005 by davwil Quote Link to comment
+jlday70 Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 The concern wouldn't be about the availability of them rather bomb squads expoding mysterious ammo cans found laying around in the woods. Be sure and clearly mark your caches! Of course any of you terrorists lurking around here should completely ignore this Being a Former Military Bomb Tech I can agree hole hearted as long as we CLEARLY! mark the caches there won't be any problem. There is no need to worry about it. J Quote Link to comment
davwil Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 (edited) Sorry folks, but the discussion of any bomb making materials just sort of gets to me... I have seem people injured my home-made bombs... know people that have been killed by bombs and have atrtended a funeral for someone killed by a bomb (with his daughters ( 2 & 4 yrs. old) Thanks for all. Dave edit: I've also been in a school when it was bombed (Low Explosive in a loose package) when I was a High-School student (Still did alot of damage... blowing 12 lockers across the hall... etc. ) I do agree with jlday70 that if a cache is ID'd as a cache there is less risk to everyone.... I've never been blown up by tupperware (ummm... yet ... ) Edited April 14, 2005 by davwil Quote Link to comment
+mtn-man Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Like I said, please stop this?!? I think it is a valid discussion, so, no. I think it is good to remind people to clearly mark your container. Repaint old ammo boxes. Put geocaching stickers on them. Make sure you have permission so people know they are there. By the way, tupperware has been destroyed by bomb squads just as ammo boxes have been. My last few caches have been clear lock and lock containers since you can see the general stuff inside. Quote Link to comment
+baloo&bd Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 I think it is good to remind people to clearly mark your container. Repaint old ammo boxes. Put geocaching stickers on them. Make sure you have permission so people know they are there. While the markings MAY help with muggles, it will not make any difference to a bomb squad. "Oh look Bill. We can leave this one. It's marked as a GEOCACHE." What was mentioned earlier, micros or clear containers in populated areas and keep the ammo boxes in the woods. Other that that story in Indiana (I think), does anyone know if there have been a lot of caches mistaken for bombs or WMDs? Quote Link to comment
+Team Cotati Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 "Other that that story in Indiana (I think), does anyone know if there have been a lot of caches mistaken for bombs or WMDs?" Quite frankly, I wonder how one would come into possession of such information. Is there some publicly available centralized repository of information relating to the number and type of bombs found? Or do we have a Dept. of Homeland Security mole in our ranks? Quote Link to comment
+caderoux Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Oddly enough, at my election-themed Halloween party last year, we hid 3 ammo can's with WMD painted on them in the yard, and put prizes inside. Later, I repainted over the WMD stencil and used them as caches. Quote Link to comment
+Ambrosia Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 I agree that maybe marking the containers will help, but it is also true that all a bomber has to do is catch on and put geocaching all over them. Not likely, but marking it is not full-proof. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Once the bomb squad is called they will follow protocal and odds are they will blow up the cache. I have no problem sacraficing a cache if someone calls in an object that looks funny. That's what they are suppoed to do, that's what the bomb squad is supposed to do. The purpose of a cacher and of a terrorist or bomber are different. We obviously have different goals. That keeps the two activities separated in law and morality. Losing the occasional container regretable as it is, is a small price to pay. Quote Link to comment
WH Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Like I said, please stop this?!? If you don't like the topic, click the little "X" button at the top right corner of your screen and your problem is solved. Quote Link to comment
CacheNCarryMA Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Later, I repainted over the WMD stencil and used them as caches. Isn't that how Saddam was able to hide his WMD from Dubya? Quote Link to comment
+VegasCacheHounds Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Oddly enough, at my election-themed Halloween party last year, we hid 3 ammo can's with WMD painted on them in the yard, and put prizes inside. Later, I repainted over the WMD stencil and used them as caches. Hmm, I went caching in a park near my house last night wearing a shirt with "WMD" and the symbols for the different types on it. I wonder what the muggles around thought I was looking for In case you are wondering, it is a shirt from the WMD counterterrorism training facility somewhere in the Nevada desert. I may have done some work with them at one point. Hard to remember... Quote Link to comment
+baloo&bd Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Once the bomb squad is called they will follow protocal and odds are they will blow up the cache. I have no problem sacraficing a cache if someone calls in an object that looks funny. That's what they are suppoed to do, that's what the bomb squad is supposed to do. I have no problem with them dealing with it accordingly, I just was pointing out that the marking were for the hoep of muggles understanding and leaving alone (not removing) not the bomb squad to ignore it. To the comment about the statistics, I was just wondering if there was more buried somewhere in the forums. I know we "talk" a lot about it but I really haven't seen there being too much of an issue yet. To be honest, I think that the ammo cans would be less suspicious thant the PVC containers I see cropping up lately. Quote Link to comment
CacheNCarryMA Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 In case you are wondering, it is a shirt from the WMD counterterrorism training facility somewhere in the Nevada desert. I may have done some work with them at one point. Hard to remember... You'd tell us about it, but then you'd have to kill us, right? Quote Link to comment
+VegasCacheHounds Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 In case you are wondering, it is a shirt from the WMD counterterrorism training facility somewhere in the Nevada desert. I may have done some work with them at one point. Hard to remember... You'd tell us about it, but then you'd have to kill us, right? Yeah, wouldn't want to do that again Quote Link to comment
+TetrAmigos Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Ugg.. threads like this never end. Quote Link to comment
+VegasCacheHounds Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Ugg.. threads like this never end. Expecially if you keep posting to them Quote Link to comment
+Stunod Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Remember the railroad bombs in France about a year ago? Those were packaged in clear plastic boxes. CNN story The statement described the device as a small, translucent plastic box measuring 20 centimeters by 20 centimeters. The box contained nitrate fuel and a flat-shaped battery linked to seven detonators, The Associated Press reported. The container doesn't matter...we all just need to think about where we place them to avoid having them found by anyone other than cachers. Quote Link to comment
+TetrAmigos Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Ugg.. threads like this never end. Expecially if you keep posting to them Point taken. Quote Link to comment
+Greymane Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 "Other that that story in Indiana (I think), does anyone know if there have been a lot of caches mistaken for bombs or WMDs?" There was a cache in Salt Lake City (near the airport) that was blown up by the local bomb squad. Bad place for a cache anyway. Too much drug activity in the area at night. Quote Link to comment
+Codswallop Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 I heard on the news today that Eric Rudolph has told authorities he made some of his bombs by packing nails around dynamite inside an ammo can. If this is true, and it gets wider news coverage, it may cause some problems. Surprisingly, ammo cans are also occasionally used for ammo. If you are stupid enough to put an ammo can in a populated area, expect your cache to mysteriously disappear. If on the other hand you place it in the woods, well, what are people going to think, that terrorists are targeting trees now? Change your shorts and move on to something new. Quote Link to comment
+Anonymous' Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 The concern wouldn't be about the availability of them rather bomb squads expoding mysterious ammo cans found laying around in the woods. Be sure and clearly mark your caches! Of course any of you terrorists lurking around here should completely ignore this Quote Link to comment
+hydee Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 My two favorite bomb squad stories... We have actually received a call from a bomb squad in the field with a geocache sitting in front of them. Since there is no way for me to 100% assure them that the container they are staring at is actually a geocache I offered them another solution. They waited patiently while emailed a local cacher, the cacher arrived on the scene in time to verify it was a cache and open the container before it was blown up. The bomb squad was very happy with us, we saved their resources and they got a small lesson in geocaching from a local cacher. My second favorite story was when police officer responded to a call about a suspicious object, then called the local bomb squad. They got there laughed explained to the officer what geocaching was and then opened the container and signed the log book. In both cases the containers were well labeled, so my advice is label your caches!!! Quote Link to comment
+CYBret Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 In both cases the containers were well labeled, so my advice is label your caches!!! AND..... REMOVE/PAINT OVER military labels/stencils and information!!! Quote Link to comment
+M&DofKJE Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 Here's one that was mistaken for a bomb in Florida... State Borders Quote Link to comment
+caderoux Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 Come to think of it, the last cache I placed was made from a "Proximity Fuse" cylinder which I picked up from cheaperthandirt.com. Plus, it's in (a tree in a) a cemetary, so although I guess I might end up getting geocaching outlawed in Louisiana (like it looks like may happen with all the misunderstandings going on in SC), all the people in the cemetary are already dead! Yes, I did paint over it - it is quite roomy and has a rubber gasket. Quote Link to comment
+cachew nut Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 (edited) Later, I repainted over the WMD stencil and used them as caches. Isn't that how Saddam was able to hide his WMD from Dubya? Yeah, that must be it. Kerry lost, get over it. There won't be any Presidents coming out of MA anytime soon. "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998 "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998 "Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." --Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998 "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." --Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998 "[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." Letter to President Clinton, signed by: -- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998 "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998 "Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." -- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999 "There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." Letter to President Bush, Signed by: -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001 "We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." -- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002 "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002 "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." -- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002 "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002 "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002 "He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" -- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002 "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." -- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002 "We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002 "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003 "Doh!" -- cachew nut, Apr. 14, 2005 Edited April 15, 2005 by cachew nut Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 (edited) A W digression. Both Iran and Iraq used chemial weapons in their war. (WMD) Dr's without borders did a study to see who it was that used them on the Kurds in Iraq. Iran used short term chemicals. They break down quickly. Iraq longer term. They remain in a residual form for some time. The Dr's found the residual form where the Kurds said they were attached with the chemical weapons. The conclusion was that Iraq used WMD on their own people. Fast forward to the Gulf War era. Nobody is on record as to showing the WMD they did have and did use were gone or used up. Without proof you can only assume they are still there, or you risk the lives of our soldiers. Fast foward to Clinton and when the weapons inspectors were kicked out. Still no evidence the WMD were destroyed or used up. Fast forward to W. WMD were one reason used to justify the war, which had other reasons to happen. I'm convinced that many of those reasons are classified (but that's my opinion) and will not come out for some time. Meaning they had to justify the war to the american public using other methods. WMD being one of them. Fast forward to the occupation. No WMD were found. That may mean they used them up in the Iran-Iraq war, or sold them, or hid them. We can't know because nothing was ever confirmed or verified beyond that Iraq had them and used them. Edited April 15, 2005 by Renegade Knight Quote Link to comment
+hydee Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 This topic isn't about our current presidency, please bring it back on topic. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 This topic isn't about our current presidency, please bring it back on topic. I deleted that part of my post where I agreed that painting your container is a good idea. After that big rant it just didn't fit. Even the decon containers I have area all painted over. I wish I had a "Geocache" stencil in that smaller size. Quote Link to comment
+cachew nut Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 (edited) This topic isn't about our current presidency, please bring it back on topic. I agree that the forums should not be led off topic, but when they are, I appreciate the equal time for the truth. As much as I dislike ammo boxes, they are hard to beat as cache containers. Edited April 15, 2005 by cachew nut Quote Link to comment
+mtn-man Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 All of my ammo boxes that have been out since 2001 and have not been stolen are still in excellent shape except for one. They are tough. Quote Link to comment
+StarBrand Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 3 out of my 4 earliest caches are all Ammo cans (early 2002) and all are in excellent shape with no sign of extra wear and tear. Smallish rust spots haven't even grown. BTW - replaced a leaky tupperware type with an ammo can on the 4th one after a year. Quote Link to comment
WH Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 Ive got an underwater cache that uses an ammo can. The cache has been out about a year now and is still bone dry on the inside. Quote Link to comment
gridlox Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 Ive got an underwater cache that uses an ammo can. The cache has been out about a year now and is still bone dry on the inside. (Off Topic)How do you manage to keep it submerged? (Back on topic) I was recently standing in Home Depot piecing together PVC pipe pieces to make a couple of Geocaches to be hid in our downtown area, when I noticed one of the employees eyeing me. I felt really uneasy thinking that this guy is probably thinking I was getting pieces to make a pipe bomb. Then I looked at what I had in my hand and it looked about right for the size of a stick of dynomite! So, it'd be understandable how someone that is unknowledgeable about Geocaching to think the wrong thing. But I'm glad it happened, because it made me rethink my hides and I have come up with some much better & creative ways to hide them. D-man Quote Link to comment
gridlox Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 (edited) Another thought.... I was looking at some of the pictures that were posted online of the stuff recovered in North Carolina and some of the ways that Eric Rudolph had disquised his bombs and I could see some really cool devious ideas on hiding some Geocaches. I mean, just look at the post on creative cache containers and you can understand how some of the more stealthy hides could be misunderstood to be something that they are not "by the uneducated". In this day and age of post 9/11, honestly some of the hides there would have really had me worried a few years ago, if I were to have found them, not knowing what they were other than some sort of disquised container. What's the answer? Dunno. I really don't think plastering GEOCACHE boldly all over the outside of all containers is the right thing. How enjoyable would finding something that you just walked up to and was clearly labeled well enough that it jumped out at you when you spotted it. Why hide them at all? The thrill of the hunt is finding something that someone has hid well and presented you with a challenge. I would really hate to see my new found hobbie go to the point of being like going to the library. •Go to the computer •Look up your cache (book) •Go to the coordinates (numbered shelves) •Look for the label to stand out (Dewey Decimal numbers) •Log your find (pick out your book) ...Just in the name of making OUR sport/hobbie/.... more acceptable to outsiders. D-man Edited April 16, 2005 by gridlox Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 I really don't think plastering GEOCACHE boldly all over the outside of all containers is the right thing. How enjoyable would finding something that you just walked up to and was clearly labeled well enough that it jumped out at you when you spotted it. Why hide them at all? unsure.gif The thrill of the hunt is finding something that someone has hid well and presented you with a challenge. I don't see how proper labelling diminishes the experience. You don't have to paint "geocache" in big day-glo letters, but there should be something on the outside telling people what it is. Quote Link to comment
CoyoteRed Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 The lettering can be subtle and still be effective. I've not heard any complaints our caches are too easy to find! Quote Link to comment
gridlox Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 (edited) The lettering can be subtle and still be effective. I've not heard any complaints our caches are too easy to find! OK, Now that's Cool! I guess I just envisioned in my mind what briansnat said. Bold bright lettering to mark the caches Something like that is really appealling. Do you make the stencils yourself? D-man EDIT: Nevermind! I found the template on your site. Really Cool!! Edited April 17, 2005 by gridlox Quote Link to comment
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