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I've Been Bad!!!!


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:laughing: Thought i would have a go at seeing how quick i could get to a cache near Bristol airport an the way home from Spain so on went the gps and lo and behold we were travelling at 520 miles an hour at 38000 ft,then set it to the cache and i was surprised,17 miles a minuite!!!!!!

Could be a record breaking day i thought until i heard a voice saying what is that you have there? It was the flight attendant,this could be embarressing and yes it was and got the evil eye from the other half!!!

Mind you i bet i am not the only one to try this?

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When I went to rhodes last year I asked the flight attendent could I use the gps on the flight.

 

I have a geko 201 and was told I would not be able to use my mobile phone :laughing:

 

When I explaned that it was not a mobile phone, she took it to the captain and came back to say I could use it as long as I turned it off on takeoff and landing.

 

I even got a ftf on Rhodes :lol:

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I was told to turn it off very quickly as it was worse than a mobile phone!!!!

Anyone know why?

Because the flight attendants are not educated about these things.

 

Some airlines say they are OK, some say they must always be turned of. The civil aviation authorities say they are just as ok as a computer or electronic game, except during the take-off and landing stage.

 

I have frequently wedged my GPS behind the window blind on transatlantic flights with no problems.

 

Bob Aldridge

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I was told to turn it off very quickly as it was worse than a mobile phone

Ridiculous! A gpsr is only a receiver and as such can only radiate on what's called an IF (intermediate frequency) and then at very low levels - mobile phones transmit in order to tell the phone system they are active and at much higher power levels (even then it's very low compared with many transmitters).

Airlines have a policy of ban everything just in case - maybe that's not such a bad idea when you think about it though, just in case...

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I have frequently wedged my GPS behind the window blind on transatlantic flights with no problems.

That's probably fine because it puts it outside the metal frame of the aircraft where it can only be picked up by the aircraft antenna (on completely different frequencies). Mind you, from what I understand egnos (European WASS) will be used for aircraft positioning from next year, I would not like to be responsible for changing the co-ordinates of the aircraft I'm travelling in!

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Rather than risk not only a lecture, but a lot of hassle, you should check who allows GPS use.

 

For example, Aer Lingus (Irish National Carrier) allows units to be used in-flight, but not while in approach and taxiing. Ryanair does not allow the use of GPS units at all - and there's no talking to them, because they won't listen.

 

Logic would dictate that, if one company allows it there's nothing wrong with it. However, in a world where 2 drinks and a mild discussion with a stewardess will get an aircraft diverted and you into court in a foreign country, it's best to enquire at the point of booking if the use of receivers is allowed.

 

Oddly enough, I used mine for the first time coming into Bristol Airport. I don't know about 17 miles a minute - at 520 mph you'd be doing a mile every 7 seconds - or 8.5 per minute. It certainly is odd to see the miles ticking down like yards.

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I'm amazed you got a signal. The two times I've tried, even up against the window, I got one satellite.

 

Of course, specifically banning "GPS receivers" is stupid, not just for all the obvious reasons like "it's harmless", but because the airlines will happily allow you to use anything that the cabin attendants can "clearly see" is a PDA (after all, you might be an "executive", ha ha ha)... whether or not said Palm, Axim or Ipaq has the GPS module clamped to the back of it. :laughing:

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i think you'll find it has more to do with their fear of a bomb. gps only a receiver hence can't really have any effect on plane, but it could contain enough semtex to put decent sized hole in side of plane. if they stop people from playing with all electronic gear they cut down on the chances.

 

it's only a guess though. it's either that or plain ignorance.

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i think you'll find it has more to do with their fear of a bomb. gps only a receiver hence can't really have any effect on plane, but it could contain enough semtex to put decent sized hole in side of plane. if they stop people from playing with all electronic gear they cut down on the chances.

 

And if they force you to strip naked before you get on, they'll have much the same effect (I believe some US airports make people take their shoes off at security), and it would also entertain us all.

 

A small metallic case which was originally shipped from a Taiwanese factory containing GPS electronics, is no more likely to contain a bomb, than a similarly sized metallic case shipped from a Chinese factory containing a CD player (with laser, ooh) and an amplifier sufficient to drive a set of headphones. As far as I know, there are no "this will blow up a plane" gadgets for sale. However, you can buy GPS units *airside* (on the "plane" side of security) at many airports. Electronic gadgets for bored businessmen are one of the top revenue earners in airport stores. (Then they get back to the office and we poor sods in the IT department have to integrate yet another brand of PDA into the network.)

 

Pan Am flight 103 was apparently blown up by a bomb in a transistor radio case (in the hold) and the 9/11 hijackers used Stanley cutters. We need to stop attributing fiendish high-tech superhuman capabilities to terrorists. Dr No and other Bond villains with high-tech underground hideouts are fiction (*). And "cyberterrorists" all turn out to be kids with no life and some programming skills. If you spend all day with your nose in the Quran (or the Bible; there are plenty of proto-terror nutters in certain US states) looking for loopholes, it doesn't leave much time for C++.

 

(*) After 9/11 I saw an interview with a Hollywood scenario writer. Apparently the national security people had been asking him and his colleagues for ideas which terrorists might use. He found this rather worrying, as did I - I would have thought the security people were paid to come up with (credible) threats. As the Hollywood guy said, he can make up anything he likes, as the laws of physics can be suspended for the duration of filming - he didn't think the NSA people had grasped this, which is "kinda scary".

Edited by sTeamTraen
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On a flight back from Grenable to Gatwick recently, the flight was too short to show a film, so they had all the screens linked to a GPS system that rolled over pages every 10 seconds.

 

Europe map, zooom in, zoom in again, stats page in imperial units, stats page metric, distance to go, track covered. Now that was neat.

 

Except, we all saw Paris coming up on the map, all looked out the window, identified the land marks. Paris disappears in the mist behind us, we all settle down. 10 mins later the captain says 'if you look out the left window, we are just approaching Paris!'.

 

Now I'm worried.

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Europe map, zooom in, zoom in again, stats page in imperial units, stats page metric, distance to go, track covered. Now that was neat.

There's a problem common to all mapping systems, but which shows up particularly on a plane: the way in which place names are picked for display.

 

For example, in the flight you described, there will probably have been 3 or 4 stages of zoom on the map to show where you were. At one point there'll have been a map of Western Europe, say. When that appears, you might see "Paris" under the plane, but the only city in Spain will be "San Sebastian" , and the corner of England which you see will show something like "Reading" rather London.

 

It all depends on some algorithm used by the software to place towns at nice even distances, I suppose, but I remember trying to explain that to a very observant elderly lady next to me - she couldn't see why we couldn't have "Madrid" and "London"...

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Except, we all saw Paris coming up on the map, all looked out the window, identified the land marks. Paris disappears in the mist behind us, we all settle down. 10 mins later the captain says 'if you look out the left window, we are just approaching Paris!'.

 

Now I'm worried.

Reminds me of a Lufthansa flight from Manchester to Munich where I got onto the flight deck (as one used to) and had not been sure which landfall we had made in Europe to be told it was Amsterdam and that we had left the English coast at Dover. Strange as I had recognised the Humber Bridge and Spurn Point which I had flown over a few times in light aircraft! :(

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i think you'll find it has more to do with their fear of a bomb. gps only a receiver hence can't really have any effect on plane, but it could contain enough semtex to put decent sized hole in side of plane. if they stop people from playing with all electronic gear they cut down on the chances.

 

And if they force you to strip naked before you get on, they'll have much the same effect (I believe some US airports make people take their shoes off at security), and it would also entertain us all.

 

A small metallic case which was originally shipped from a Taiwanese factory containing GPS electronics, is no more likely to contain a bomb, than a similarly sized metallic case shipped from a Chinese factory containing a CD player (with laser, ooh) and an amplifier sufficient to drive a set of headphones. As far as I know, there are no "this will blow up a plane" gadgets for sale. However, you can buy GPS units *airside* (on the "plane" side of security) at many airports. Electronic gadgets for bored businessmen are one of the top revenue earners in airport stores. (Then they get back to the office and we poor sods in the IT department have to integrate yet another brand of PDA into the network.)

 

Pan Am flight 103 was apparently blown up by a bomb in a transistor radio case (in the hold) and the 9/11 hijackers used Stanley cutters. We need to stop attributing fiendish high-tech superhuman capabilities to terrorists. Dr No and other Bond villains with high-tech underground hideouts are fiction (*). And "cyberterrorists" all turn out to be kids with no life and some programming skills. If you spend all day with your nose in the Quran (or the Bible; there are plenty of proto-terror nutters in certain US states) looking for loopholes, it doesn't leave much time for C++.

 

(*) After 9/11 I saw an interview with a Hollywood scenario writer. Apparently the national security people had been asking him and his colleagues for ideas which terrorists might use. He found this rather worrying, as did I - I would have thought the security people were paid to come up with (credible) threats. As the Hollywood guy said, he can make up anything he likes, as the laws of physics can be suspended for the duration of filming - he didn't think the NSA people had grasped this, which is "kinda scary".

I have worked in a fair few airports, most recently Munster, Germany and we required passengers to put their shoes through the rapiscan machine before entering the departure lounge. I'm afraid it's a sign of the times we live in.

To quote General Melchett "Security is not a dirty word"

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I have worked in a fair few airports, most recently Munster, Germany and we required passengers to put their shoes through the rapiscan machine before entering the departure lounge. I'm afraid it's a sign of the times we live in.

I hope nobody tries to blow up a plane with a bomb hidden in their underpants (or more intimately still).

 

Actually, it would be a good idea for terrorists to do that. The cost to the Western world of all the extra security must be billions already; by forcing us to strip naked they could make air travel all but impossible.

 

Although, some of the cost could be offset by selling tickets to watch, depending on which celebs were due to fly that day. :D

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...I understand egnos (European WASS) will be used for aircraft positioning from next year, I would not like to be responsible for changing the co-ordinates of the aircraft I'm travelling in!

You probably won't be allowed to use your GPSr while the aircraft is in a flight phase which requires the use of WAAS or LAAS.

 

Many airlines already use GPS as part of their suite of nav instruments. As has been noted here, some airlines and some airliner captains are happy for the self-loading baggage to use GPSrs in the cabin during the cruise segments while GPS is being used by the Flight Management System computers to keep the aircraft on track.

 

The concern that some crews and some airline management people have is not so much that the aircraft's GPS will be upset by electric gizmos in the pax cabin, but that some modern airliners do not have any mechanical connection between the pilot's flight controls and the flight control surfaces out in the breeze. There have been some recorded incidents where fly by wire signals have been interfered with by RF sources which are suspected of being emitted by pax using devices such a mobile phones, (mostly the old analogue ones).

 

Cheers, The Forester

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As far as I know, there are no "this will blow up a plane" gadgets for sale. However, you can buy GPS units *airside* (on the "plane" side of security) at many airports.

A flying chum of mine is an explosives engineer in his day job and is a demolitions expert in a special forces unit of the TA.

 

Some years ago he was part of a team which was invited to do a review of airport security at a great big airport somewhere in the bottom right-hand corner of England

 

In the duty free shopping area he bought 8 items over the counter. He later demonstrated how to build an Improvised Explosive Device using only those materials. One day he gave us another demo at our local airfield, where he had a licenced magazine in which he kept the normal materials of his trade.

 

It took him about 5 minutes to assemble his IED. It was an impressive piece of work, with two timers, a remote detonation device, a local detonation device and an anti-tamper device. When he set the thing off it made a very impressive explosion.

 

I've seen at least 3 of those 8 items for sale in the duty free areas of both British and American airports long after the airport authorities were warned how easily terrorists could exploit that weakness. The airports have banned a couple of the items. For example, you can no longer buy flash bulbs there.

 

There doesn't seem to be much common sense or joined up thinking in the airport security industry. Taking nail clippers off passengers while allowing them to take glass bottles into the cabin is just plain daft.

 

The real terrorists, such as the PFLP-GC guy who made the five IEDS of which one was used in PA103 over Lockerbie must be laughing at the authorities.

 

Cheers, The Forester

BTW, he was showing us what can be done with those 8 materials. He did not show us how to do it!

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The airports have banned a couple of the items. For example, you can no longer buy flash bulbs there.

 

I've used PF1 flash bulbs to remotely ignite the bonfire on Guy Fawkes night. They work very well indeed. Quite impressive, too. Just flick the switch and away she goes. ;)

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Coffee-Mate (don't laugh) makes a great pyrotechnic.  Try sprinkling it directly from the jar from above your head onto a naked flame.  Whooomp!

so do crushed polo mints - and they leave a pleasant after smell too - none of this nasty cordite smell :blink:

it sounds dadgum dangerous to me. hold jar above your head and sprinkle onto open flame? where would the open flame be then? ontop of your head? the pyrotechniques being you catching fire <_<

Edited by nobby.nobbs
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Work in any area were there is a high risk of a fine powder in the air, and you are in a high risk area of a "Flash Bang" caused by just static electricity even in a flour mill. Hence the HSE high prioritising the maintenance of proper ventilation in these areas. Having worked in a flour mill the safety briefing showed a film were flour in the air in a closed room was ignited by static electricity, the flash bang actualy lasts for less than a second but produces enough heat and force to cook and blow up a chicken. Even in the open the heat could cause a severe burn.

 

Dave

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If you are going to a foreign country then make sure that GPSr are permitted in that country.

 

Ive just booked a holiday in Cuba which has only 8 caches, but more importantly, Cuban customs specifically ban anyone bringing GPSr into the country and will impound them on entry.... so leave it at home

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Work in any area were there is a high risk of a fine powder in the air, and you are in a high risk area of a "Flash Bang"

Memories.

 

Years ago I watched a very good TV show called "How".

 

Fred Dinenage created a flour dust "bomb" out of an old tin can.

 

Try getting that on TV these days...... :lol:

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:rolleyes: Thought i would have a go at seeing how quick i could get to a cache near Bristol airport an the way home from Spain so on went the gps and lo and behold we were travelling at 520 miles an hour at 38000 ft,then set it to the cache and i was surprised,17 miles a minuite!!!!!!

Managed to get GPS positions on all 4 planes on our recent trip to Orlando (via Montreal). At one point found were were flying within 10 miles (half of them vertical!) of a place called "Winchester" (in Canada!)

 

On the way there, we were going at about 570 mph, but on the way back, we maxed at 620 MPH ... that is some tail wind we got there! (But then again, the easterly flight is actually SCHEDULED to be faster)

 

Paul

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