Rude, Disgusting And Downright Illegal Behavior

2.5k · April 9, 2005

This is what is commonly seen as a "elitest forum jerk placating his ego by pointing out the short comings of others". Ok, I'll play along.

You got me there, but you missed "Napoleon complex."

RK pointed out my second two paragraphs. You probably missed it as you were distracted, plunging the dagger deep in my heart (oof).

Don't worry, Jeremy, I'll save you.

Seriously, we have one of those parks around the corner from my house.

While revisiting a cache one day, I met one of these guys. While visiting a cache one day with another cacher, we emerged from the woods at the same time as a couple of these guys.

There are caches in there. They are visited regularly. But if you want cheap sex, any place that is well known for parking and getting some is going to keep being a place for parking and getting some.

If it offends you, go somewhere else. Otherwise, suck it up (no, that isn't a sexual term) and ignore them.

April 9, 2005

Why not just get your gun - after all its the standard American way of dealing with what you don't agree with.

4.2k · April 9, 2005

Isn't it amazing that so many homophobes "have a bunch of gay friends" ?

Once again, a one-line off the cuff comment.

Are you going to add anything to the converstaion or jsut drop in now and then and take shots/make statements with no justifications behind them?

6.4k · April 9, 2005

Why not just get your gun - after all its the standard American way of dealing with what you don't agree with.

Wow, homophobia and hoplophobia both in the same thread!

Wonder if these people would agree with ya?

1.4k · April 9, 2005

I had to google hoplophobia. I didn't know such a thing existed, but does explain the sometimes irrational statements made towards us "gun totin redneck yanks".

April 9, 2005

We had a problem with this in some of the parks in Knoxville, so some of the geocachers and other park users decided to talk to the mayor about the problem. He decided it was a good idea to have something done about it. He approved the turning of one of the worse parks into a geocache park and since then, according to my knowledge, there has not been a problem.

April 9, 2005

Unfortunately some seekers of my cache have encountered problems with the park perverts, leading me to post the following as part of my cache page description:

SAFETY AND AWARENESS NOTE:

Unfortunately, Settlers Cabin Park has long been a gathering point for "park perverts" in search of partners. Several geocachers have reported being followed into the woods, or otherwise being uncomfortable with the activities they've observed. As someone who has been assaulted by a "park pervert," I take this issue quite seriously. I recommend finding this cache with a group, or if you go alone, be extra aware of your surroundings and the presence of others. Parents bringing children on this hunt should either scout carefully or plan their trip for a summer weekend when the park is full of normal visitors. Rather than not having caches in parks like this, geocachers SHOULD go to these areas and help the community take back our parks from those who use them for illicit and immoral purposes.

I think that my cache page sums up my own feelings and experience in this area quite well. Oh, and the "assault" against me was an "unwanted touching" after being stalked in the woods, then running away from the guy and trying to hide in a laurel thicket. When he made his advance, I responded with a different type of "assault," called a "right uppercut." I now carry spray mace with me on most cache hunts.

I was one of the cachers that had some issues with Lep's cache. I was in the park alone just minding my own business when someone followed me in their van from parking lot to parking lot. When I stopped, I told him that I just wanted to be alone and he stuck around anyway. There is no way that I'm going into the woods alone with someone following me. I didn't know what he wanted at the time (actually, I assumed first that it was a location for drug sales), and I didn't care - I just told him good bye and drove away.

You all can go on about gay/hetero/monkey/alien sex in parks and in American society. I think that the point of this thread is to discuss ways to maintain the safety of people (men, women, and children) in parks.

April 9, 2005

You correct this problem the same way as the folks do in the previous thread:

"Protection From Wildlife?"

2.6k · April 9, 2005

Grownups of all orientations have appropriate private places to go to do private things (seriously, gay people have apartments now and everything, just like real people!). Anyone over the age of 18 who has sex in public is either cheating on a partner, amusing himself at lunch in ways the personnel department doesn't list in the benefits package, or finds the thrill of the forbidden an important part of the experience. Sympathy: none. Fortunately, it's all illegal.

4.5k · April 9, 2005

I'd rather get rid of ticks.

April 9, 2005

RK pointed out my second two paragraphs. You probably missed it as you were distracted, plunging the dagger deep in my heart (oof).

Jeremys dead? What will we do?

I encountered a park like this looking for this cache . Read the last post from brokentee, this is still a popular make out spot just now for the gays. I thought of the scene from "Something about Mary" and chuckled.

I am not a homophobe, but I do have Triskadekaphobia. Ok I am just kidding find your own phobia here.

The long and short of it is: take action locally and yes others have encountered this before.

3.8k · April 9, 2005

And when multiple reports about park perverts were sent to me in regard to my own cache, I posted a park pervert warning on my cache page.

Maybe an icon could be created for the cache attributes and/or The Selector?

back on topic, I've only encountered a few parks where this appeared to be the norm... and only one I can remember specifically. the cache has since been archived (the one closest to the particular 'area" of the park), but the other is still active. i've not been "lucky" enough to be there when business was going down, but have seen the remnants.

9.1k · April 9, 2005

I think the "Hunting Area" icon, combined with "Not Kid Friendly," handles the issue quite nicely.

April 10, 2005

Talio - I admire you for taking action! I think it is a shame that the park - or any park - is being used like that. I don't have any experience with this type of situation - sorry I don't have any suggestions - but I do hope you get some help with this. I wouldn't want to run into something raunchy while I was geocaching with my family. I am fairly new to geocaching and only after reading this and some other posts in the forums about porn etc. do I realize there is a good possibility of running into a situation I might not have otherwise been prepared for. I understand your frustration.

Edited April 10, 2005 by Buster's Boys

April 10, 2005

Why not just get your gun - after all its the standard American way of dealing with what you don't agree with.

I am so glad I was in the woods looking for caches this morning when this was posted! What he heck does that have to do with this thread? Nice contribution, mental midget!

*edit* I cleaned up my implied language. I replaced "f" with heck

Edited April 10, 2005 by spamhead

5.3k · April 10, 2005

I contacted the local police and they said they weren't aware the problem had resurfaced. Said their efforts of a few years ago worked well, but after that, they heard no more complaints. They promised me that they would have police patrol the park and also put together a number of sting operations. They also told me that it will be ongoing because they first believed that the sting in 99 would solve the problem indefinetely. So it seems one can do something about the situation. Thanks to all of you who gave advice.

Good work! I'm glad the police were helpful.

The additional patrols and sting operations will help control ALL illegal activities in the park.

April 10, 2005

Well out here in PA i went and found a 4 stage multi when this black dude told me i was disturbing him.. Here he was taking a s*** around where the 3rd stage was hidden.. So I had to wait for the jackass to get done dumping my the cache area.

Also in Rest Areas you have to watch out,, Some people stash micros there and the rest stops turn out to be Fag havens.. Hey if thats what you are into more power to ya.. Not trying to offend anyone, its just that Im not an overly PC person and believe this country has become too sensitive.

1.4k · April 10, 2005

Nope...I ain't gonna say it.

1.7k · April 10, 2005

I find such activity at a public area appalling. It is dangerous and disgusting.

Our encounter at one of these parks.

Such activity, regardless of sexual orientation is vile. There are too many nice areas I will not go to any more. It is sad that these things happen now. When the cops cleaned up one old notorious hangout, they just moved into another one that is heavily frequented by families. That park (the one in my log entry above) has had several sexual assaults and other problems, brought on by the increased sexual deviancy in the park. From a medical perspective, a stranger's body fluids is not something I care to have contact with, especially given the high risk factor of the behavior.

My sister in law was kidnapped, assaulted and nearly murdered by a serial rapist and killer. I love geocaching, but not enough to go to these areas.

April 10, 2005

Well out here in PA i went and found a 4 stage multi when this black dude told me i was disturbing him.. Here he was taking a s*** around where the 3rd stage was hidden.. So I had to wait for the jackass to get done dumping my the cache area.

Also in Rest Areas you have to watch out,, Some people stash micros there and the rest stops turn out to be Fag havens.. Hey if thats what you are into more power to ya.. Not trying to offend anyone, its just that Im not an overly PC person and believe this country has become too sensitive.

Blacks and fags? So you've dropped the thin pretense of PC some have kept in this thread.

April 10, 2005

If people would just grow up, and not be so easily offended by everything, this country would be a much better place. Why do you think people use those words, So people get offended and go, "aww, can you believe what he said". There is nothing anyone could ever say to me that I would give a sh*t about, why should I. What kind of life do people live if they go around and get offended by anything and everything, just take a chill pill, move on, and enjoy life. Life is to short to care what other people think and say.

Sorry a little off topic.

Back to the topic

I don't have any problems at all with people doing homosexual or heterosexual things in their bedrooms, why should I. It is when they do them out in the open, in a public place, and do it with strangers. The only reason the majority of this topic is about homosexuals is because homosexuals make up the majority of those who do it. You don't see a married couples going out to the local park do you? If they did people would be just as p*ssed too. THIS is not about homosexuals it is about public indecenty, disrespect, and the right to go out geocacheing without being afraid of getting raped, or seeing something you don't want to see, especially for children.

Why not just get your gun - after all its the standard American way of dealing with what you don't agree with.

Yes, I guess your right, thanks for the idea

4.5k · April 10, 2005

Hikers frequent the same places we do and have been doing so a lot longer than us. If you have any kind of problem in a park, or parking lot by a trail head, or trail itself, why not join forces with the local hiking groups to see the authorities. You might have better results.

April 10, 2005

Well out here in PA i went and found a 4 stage multi when this black dude told me i was disturbing him.. Here he was taking a s*** around where the 3rd stage was hidden.. So I had to wait for the jackass to get done dumping my the cache area.

Also in Rest Areas you have to watch out,, Some people stash micros there and the rest stops turn out to be Fag havens.. Hey if thats what you are into more power to ya.. Not trying to offend anyone, its just that Im not an overly PC person and believe this country has become too sensitive.

Finally someone with the guts to keep it real. At least I can respect this guy for being HONEST which is a lot more than I can say for quite a few of the previous posters.

2.1k · April 11, 2005

Sometimes I think ju66l3r just wants to take the opposing opinion for sake of argument. I admire your wanting to do something about this Talio and I wish there were more out there with the fervor in which you present the issue. I don't really understand how this can knowingly occur in parks.

Its kind of like when your dog vomits on the carpet. Everyone knows its there but no one jumps to clean it up.

Sometimes I think you single me out just because you don't like my opinions.

I actually agree with Talio et al. that this is something that isn't supposed to go on in the parks. I just didn't agree with the conclusions they formed because of their witnessing it in this one park. And I certainly gave them a few options (but with the warning that they probably aren't the first to bring it up and it probably won't get them the results they are looking for and yet I told them they should do it anyways).

So, in this case, you're just plain reading what you want in my initial response. Go find something else to do.

7.2k · April 11, 2005

This topic is getting really close to getting closed.

This is a family forum, so the "keep it real" post is out of line. When a language filter kicks in you are over the line.

Family friendly -- post accordingly.

April 11, 2005

Hi everyone,

now that this discussion has simmered down to a "low boil", would it be okay with everyone if we perhaps moved this thread "back inside" to the off-topic forum?

My concern is that "new folks" might drop by this website for information and discussions about geocaching, and find themselves inadvertently exposed to a discussion that offends their sensibilities and perhaps turn them off to geocaching or geocachers....

I'm not saying we shouldn't discuss this topic - I think you should, since "clean family-friendly parks" are important to geocachers, hikers, and others who enjoy the enjoyment of the outdoors.

But it's just that, with Earth Day and upcoming CITO events, the PR is going to perhaps bring a lot more "outsiders" dropping by this site, so maybe we can just move this discussion off the "front porch" and inside to the off-topic forum......'company's comin", let's put our best face forward?

3.9k · April 11, 2005

If people would just grow up, and not be so easily offended by everything, this country would be a much better place.

I have no strong views either way on the original topic - I don't encounter this problem in my caching area.

However, it seems to me that the issue that the OP has, is precisely that this behaviour is, to him/her, "offensive". (I'm using the words "Rude" and "Disgusting" as my clues here.) "Illegal", I have no problem with - call law enforcement if something illegal is going on. But I doubt whether any of the people causing the original offence are reading this anyway. :blink:

Edited April 11, 2005 by sTeamTraen

April 11, 2005

this whole situation kinda reminds me of something that I witnessed back after I graduated high school(in 1999)

I graduated and decided to do a back packing tour with a company that runs out of SF.

back packing company

Anyhow, the tours are mostly european and asian students who use the tour as a cheap way to see small town America, the particular tour I went on was the national parks loop that went to all the major parks out west in 19 days.

At one of the parks (i dont remember which one now) It was sweltering hot and after a couple hours in the bus everyone wanted to get out and cool down. Where the bus had parked we were just a short walk to a natural beach that was overlooked by one of the busy park roads (very public) Without a second thought the europeans and asians went to the beach, stripped naked and began to frolic in the cool water, all of which was easily viewed from the road overlooking this beach. Us prudish american few stood at the waters edge and had to yell at everyone in the water that public nudity was illegal in America AND that they were causing a traffic jam on the road opposite.

The morals of the story: America is prude about nudity (and sex) and that naked women can cause a traffic jam. :blink:

I love America but I do wish we were more european in some ways

38.2k · April 11, 2005

Well out here in PA i went and found a 4 stage multi when this black dude told me i was disturbing him.. Here he was taking a s*** around where the 3rd stage was hidden.. So I had to wait for the jackass to get done dumping my the cache area.

Also in Rest Areas you have to watch out,, Some people stash micros there and the rest stops turn out to be Fag havens.. Hey if thats what you are into more power to ya.. Not trying to offend anyone, its just that Im not an overly PC person and believe this country has become too sensitive.

Finally someone with the guts to keep it real. At least I can respect this guy for being HONEST which is a lot more than I can say for quite a few of the previous posters.

So the other posters are being dishonest? You think they really like the idea of open sex and being accosted in parks and are saying they don't?

April 11, 2005

What ever happened to doing it in the car? What, they don't want to mess up the upholstery? What happened to "if the van's a rocking', don't come a knockin'?"

No, I think the underlying cause here is society not accepting gays. A lot of people will pay lip service to the acceptance of gays, but still find it disgusting and unacceptable. Of course, some people are so prudish as they refuse their significant other public displays of attention.

I feel bad that Lep got assaulted, but I don't see what happened as much different that what the ladies have to deal with many times more often. The statistics for sexual assualt are absolutely staggering. While statistics can be what you make them, one study suggested that 1 in 4 ladies would be the victim of a sexual assault some time in her life. Some consider that study flawed and gave a much more conservative figure of 1 in 10. Fine, we'll take that. Just starting counting the ladies you encounter in a typical day and count; 1, 2, 3... You can figure that every time you get to 10 one of those ladies has had an encounter not unlike Lep's--only most of the time they can't muster the same force to say "no."

So, I don't consider Lep's encounter a "pickle park" issue. It could happen anywhere where there is a bit of privacy and the other person just doesn't want to accept "no" as an answer.

Yes, we've been in cruising areas a few times. Yes, I've been nervous about the guys hanging out, but not because of fear of being approached, but the inherent desire to not be discovered and reveal the hide. I was no different than any group of people hanging around.

But, I have to wonder, if society was more accepting, if gays could be open with their sexuality (not talking about the "flamers" but the more conservative folks) do you think this would be a problem? If you make anything taboo, you instantly create an underground market. If you were "King of the United States" and made churches illegal, folks would still congregate and worship in hiding.

Think about it.

(BTW, truckers use the term "pickle park" for rest stops, any rest stop, so that should tell you is not just a problem for remote parks.)

For the first time that I can remember, I agree with everything CR said, and don't think I couldn't say it better myself. So I'm just quoting his whole statement and saying: YES! I think you hit the nail on the head CR. Thanks!

April 11, 2005

. . . You can't solicit sex and you can't have sex in public places. . .

I appreciate you taking action and calling the cops to make a public park a more pleasant place. I think that is very cool. That is taking your citizenship seriously, and I applaud that.

BUT, I'm sorry. I can't let this all go.

Since when it is illegal to solicit in public places. Are you going to tell me that you never approached someone you were interested when you were in a public place? Most of us have met and gotten to know others we were interested in, in public.

As for the the act of "sex", yeah, maybe it's illegal in some public places. I hope it's not illegal in wilderness areas. I'm pretty sure it's not illegal, in public campgrounds as long as you are discrete about it. I don't ever recall park rangers unzipping my wife's and my sleeping bag to check and make sure we weren't doing it.

And, just to top it off, I'd be willing to bet that a significant number of geocachers have found it fun to at least fantasize if not follow through on "doing it" in range of different almost public places, illegal or not. Cemeteries after dark anyone? Does this make those of us that have done this perverts and criminals? If so, lock me up!

I'd be curious how many geocachers have actually gotten amorous with each other withing 100 m of a geocache. More than a few, I'd bet. I'm sure there are a number of beautiful and inspiring places where geocaches have been stashed and where the chances of encountering someone else is small enough to make the risk worth taking.

I think it is important to temper too moralistic a high road here where hypocrisy is bound to bite us in the . . .

April 11, 2005

My sister in law was kidnapped, assaulted and nearly murdered by a serial rapist and killer. I love geocaching, but not enough to go to these areas.

And what does and encouter with a serial rapist have to do with "pickle parks"? I'm sorry, but I just don't see the connection.

2.5k · April 11, 2005

The best thing for you to do is work with your local community to clean up your parks, or even your local geocaching organization.

I had no idea that this had spread to my local geocaching organization!

April 11, 2005

Why not just get your gun - after all its the standard American way of dealing with what you don't agree with.

I am so glad I was in the woods looking for caches this morning when this was posted! What he heck does that have to do with this thread? Nice contribution, mental midget!

*edit* I cleaned up my implied language. I replaced "f" with heck

I agree dgardner was a bit out of line. You shouldn't judge all Americans alike - just like you shouldn't homosexuals or blacks! (Maybe he though that was the mood of the tread?)

But frankly, I'm surprised that you deign to this kind of personal attack in a forum - and get away with it. If you can't open your mouth without being this rude to a poster, go open it somewhere else.

April 11, 2005

:huh: Take a pair of binoculars with you and sit 1/4 mile away as you tell your friend the license plate numbers on the cars. Forward them with a descrition of the cars and hair color of the driver to the community website.

:laughing: I also didn't tell you that a person just might be able to go to the courthouse and pay two or three dollars for the listing on a license plates registration. You might just be real surprised who some of theses folks are (I used to watch the parks when working in the Criminal Justice field).

One more reason why I always wanted to work in a certain type of bookstore for just one month; to see who comes in the door. I have heard that lawyers, city councilmen, tv sports anchors, etc. stop by to visit.

:lol: If you see a listing for the "Pickle Park Cache" take my advise and dont look for TB's or FTF prizes; just walk away from the listing.

2.6k · April 11, 2005

I think it is important to temper too moralistic a high road here where hypocrisy is bound to bite us in the . . .

In case you've been asleep for the last thirty years, the moralistic high road is generally claimed by the "more tolerant than thou" faction these days. There is no act, no matter how distasteful or tacky, that somebody, somewhere won't insist is a normal, healthy expression of something-or-other that we'd be hypocritical not to ignore because we ourselves once made out in the back of the back of a Toyota in the school parking lot Sophomore year.

Pooh, I say.

April 11, 2005

Applause!

24.7k · April 11, 2005

I think it is important to temper too moralistic a high road here where hypocrisy is bound to bite us in the . . .

In case you've been asleep for the last thirty years, the moralistic high road is generally claimed by the "more tolerant than thou" faction these days. There is no act, no matter how distasteful or tacky, that somebody, somewhere won't insist is a normal, healthy expression of something-or-other that we'd be hypocritical not to ignore because we ourselves once made out in the back of the back of a Toyota in the school parking lot Sophomore year.

Pooh, I say.

Didja ever notice that the More tolerant than thou crowd isn't all that tolerant of people who are not tolerant of the things that the tolerant crowd has deemed worthy of tolerance?

They also don't understand that tolerance is essentially "Putting up with." That falls short of embracing with open arms.

7.2k · April 11, 2005

Not about geocaching any more. I warned ya'.

Topic closed.

Rude, Disgusting And Downright Illegal Behavior

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