Rude, Disgusting And Downright Illegal Behavior

[+Talio]

Before I took up arms and wrote 12 letters to the state I wanted to discuss an issue. Here locally there is a park which supposedly is well known to be a spot for sexual solicitation for homosexual men. These men not only cruise around the park stopping for long periods of time to stare at other men in vehicles, they also engage in acts out in the woods. Worst part is, this park is a great historical landmark. The first American defensive was heald on these grounds against the british during the Revolutionary war. George Washington himself was stationed on this hill. Now these vival and illegal acts that occur everyday in the park is not only disgusting, but disrespectful to the historical significance to the country, and the men who died there. I have nothing against homosexuals, but if it were heterosexuals doing the same thing I would be just as disgusted and appauled. I want to write a letter to the Govenor, but even that doesn't seem like enough. I'm a great advocater of the parks association, not just because of Geocaching. If anything I got involved with Geocaching because I like the parks, not vice versa. I feel that parks will be our last ties to nature someday, but I also believe they are in great danger. The day could come when no one cares about nature and the woods leaving parks defenseless against development. I feel that what these men are doing doesn't help the situation. What if this is allowed to continue? What if it spreads to other parks? What if someday this is all the parks are used for? More importantly, what if one day I cannot take my children to a park of all places for fear that they will stumble upon this kind of activity?

 

So I've written an email and a letter to the Govenor, made a donation to the local websites that are trying to abolish this practice, but I'm now at a hault. If this was your town, happening down the street from you, what would you do? Thanks for reading.

 

Talio.

[Mushtang]

What if someday this is all the parks are used for?

Then someone will post a thread on their forums that says, "Those rude and disgusting geocachers have been seen in our park, and they're becoming more common. What if geocaching spreads into the parks again? What if someday geocaching is all the parks are used for?"

 

[+Riddlers]

I guess I would contact the national orginization for neighborhood watch and see what they suggest, and then contact the local police to see what they suggest. Like form groups that patrol, carry big flashlights, cameras and write down license plate numbers. I think calling them would be a place to start.

[+Renegade Knight]

Camera's do wonders to reclaim parks from people screwing around on the grounds.

[+Talio]

Mushtang - While I understand that your just being sarcastic, this really is something I find awful serious. I don't get involved with social issues often, but I had no idea things like this went on. Understand I'm pretty serious about this issue.

 

Riddlers - I think I just might do that. On one hand, I never want to go back there. On the other hand, I think that might just be the answer. I might just have to use the park and make these guys feel as uncomfortable and out of place as they made me feel. I'll call the local police and ask them, but I don't just want to roll over on this because it's convienent. I really want to find out what I can do to help the problem.

 

I also want to apologize if posting this offends anyone, trust me, it offends me too.

 

Talio.

[+Sagefox]

What if someday this is all the parks are used for?

Then someone will post a thread on their forums that says, "Those rude and disgusting geocachers have been seen in our park, and they're becoming more common. What if geocaching spreads into the parks again? What if someday geocaching is all the parks are used for?"

Not exactly a comparable situation.

[ju66l3r]

Before I took up arms and wrote 12 letters to the state I wanted to discuss an issue. Here locally there is a park which supposedly is well known to be a spot for sexual solicitation for homosexual men. These men not only cruise around the park stopping for long periods of time to stare at other men in vehicles, they also engage in acts out in the woods. Worst part is, this park is a great historical landmark. The first American defensive was heald on these grounds against the british during the Revolutionary war. George Washington himself was stationed on this hill. Now these vival and illegal acts that occur everyday in the park is not only disgusting, but disrespectful to the historical significance to the country, and the men who died there. I have nothing against homosexuals, but if it were heterosexuals doing the same thing I would be just as disgusted and appauled. I want to write a letter to the Govenor, but even that doesn't seem like enough. I'm a great advocater of the parks association, not just because of Geocaching. If anything I got involved with Geocaching because I like the parks, not vice versa. I feel that parks will be our last ties to nature someday, but I also believe they are in great danger. The day could come when no one cares about nature and the woods leaving parks defenseless against development. I feel that what these men are doing doesn't help the situation. What if this is allowed to continue? What if it spreads to other parks? What if someday this is all the parks are used for? More importantly, what if one day I cannot take my children to a park of all places for fear that they will stumble upon this kind of activity?

 

So I've written an email and a letter to the Govenor, made a donation to the local websites that are trying to abolish this practice, but I'm now at a hault. If this was your town, happening down the street from you, what would you do? Thanks for reading.

 

Talio.

Sexual acts in parks is something that's been around longer than you or I have.

 

This didn't just start showing up there yesterday, so I don't know what the alarm ringing and slippery slope arguments you make are all about.

 

These things have a need to be located in the same place regularly because, for the most part, they aren't organizing these activities on message boards or web pages. The idea that it'll spread rapidly or out of control wouldn't make it viable.

 

If you have issues, I'd talk to the park's land manager first. My guess is they'll tell you it's a known problem and that enforcement is highly difficult (since looking at you from their car isn't illegal and the acts themselves often take place when the park is closed so enforcement is needed from local police instead of park rangers.

[+Talio]

Actually that's where you're wrong. These men do this in broad daylight. Middle of the day. People have spotted the men behind tree lines from their cars. If it were guys sneaking in at night, that would be one thing. This isn't just a few cars either. We're not talking about one or two cars floating in here. I saw at least 10 cars yesterday and hadn't gone past for the first lot. The drive goes another quater of a mile and there are three other lots. A few years back they had a sting and 34 men were arrested. Yes the issue is known, and yes, while saying that parks could slip into this pattern is merely speculative, the point remains. The state allowing this kind of behavior without any form of retribution against it is almost a way of condoning the situation. Hopefully a little assertiveness will go a long way.

Edited April 8, 2005 by Talio

[+KC0GRN]

We have a park in my area that's known for that kinda activity. The local paper has a 10,000 medallion hunt (fairly big prize, gets LOTS of people out in a park) that ended in the same park. Personally I thought it was funny, because there was no way to get any kind of privacy in that park during those two weeks, and I'm pretty sure it forced all the regulars out of the park, so essentially it was completely safe to be there, just for the number of people you had around.

[+Mr. Snazz]

"Disgusting" is rather subjective.

 

And, are these men geocaching?

 

If not, why are you posting this here?

[Mushtang]

Mushtang - While I understand that your just being sarcastic, this really is something I find awful serious. I don't get involved with social issues often, but I had no idea things like this went on. Understand I'm pretty serious about this issue.

It was my way of saying that your idea of the parks someday only being used for this activity is ridiculous.

 

Ju66ler is right, the activity has been around for a long time, and it hasn't taken over the parks yet. Nor will it.

[adampierson]

Before you write to you governer, you might try reporting what you've seen to the park rangers, park officials, or even the police. Reporting anything to the governer may slow what you want to a grinding crawl - they are so far removed from the problem they may also just bury issue for something they deem more worthy.

[+Renegade Knight]

Mushtang - While I understand that your just being sarcastic, this really is something I find awful serious.  I don't get involved with social issues often, but I had no idea things like this went on.  Understand I'm pretty serious about this issue.

It was my way of saying that your idea of the parks someday only being used for this activity is ridiculous.

 

Ju66ler is right, the activity has been around for a long time, and it hasn't taken over the parks yet. Nor will it.

If it's a park use that prevents other uses or scares off other users, it's not a valid use regardless of how long people have been trying to perfect the zipless fu** on park grounds. Coming across a couple of teens making out in the bushes is one thing. Having a pass made at you and being followed when you are trying to find a cache is another.

 

It does curtail legitimate activites in the areas that become known as pickle parks.

[+Talio]

I greatly apologize for posting this here, I see now that the situation cannot be discussed without controvesy. The reason I posted this here is because I know many of you take your children geocaching, and this park has a few caches in it. I am worried that if they can get away with it in one park eventually that will mean they can get away with it in another and another untill we truely have to worry about taking our children into public parks. You may find that to be a rediculous notion, but I'd love to hear one of you say that as you walk down a path with your 6 year old and find two men engaging in sexual acts. Perhaps I am taking this too seriously, but for a game that I love that takes place in these places that are also being used for sexual solicitation I find to be a serious problem.

 

This will be my last post in this thread, it's obvious that the level of discussion on these boards has not reached the point where we can discuss what social issues may effect our game. I again apologize if I've offended anyone, I thought perhaps this was a problem that others have run into while caching and had suggestions for what they did with it. I apologize for causing controvesy, I thought it would be appropriate. Forgive me.

 

Talio.

Edited April 8, 2005 by Talio

[+Renegade Knight]

...I thought perhaps this was a problem that others have run into while caching and had suggestions for what they did with it....

Talio.

Pickle Parks are brought up every now and then. Mostly by someone who while geocaching finds themselves at one, gets hit on, gets followed, and who not knowing the protocal pisses off the 'shunned' sex partner, and in turn gets the heebie jeebies if not downright scared because of being followed by someone who is looking for a 'specific outcome' that the geocacher had no idea about let alond the interest.

 

Anyway, when it comes to land use planning, walkers, bikers, dogs, kids, playground, ATV's, Horseback riding, fishing, backpakcing etc. tend to come up as valid land use issues. So far as I know Free Sex isn't really on the list regardless of orientation so your concerns are valid.

 

Do a search for "Pickle Park" and you will find other threads on the topic.

[magellan315]

A few years back they had a sting and 34 men were arrested.  Yes the issue is known, and yes, while saying that parks could slip into this pattern is merely speculative, the point remains.

 

It sounds to me that if there was a sting in the park a few years ago park management is well aware of what is going on and can only do so much. Sorry no one here could provide you with the level of rightous indignation you wanted. In 4 years of Geocaching I have yet to run into something like this and I'm sure it happens.

 

I don't see a slippery slope situation going here. Clearly you are very upset with this so you have some options.

1. Stop going to the park

2. Find out if the park has volunteers who do park maintance and see if you can join them.

3. Go to the park on a regular basis, pick up trash on your own, and put a loud bell on your pack. That might chase away some of this behaviour.

4. Go Geocaching someplace else and post notes in the online logs alerting people.

 

Believe me when you have found more than 14 caches you will find that what have experienced is an exception, not the rule.

Edited April 8, 2005 by magellan315

[+pnew]

Sometimes I think ju66l3r just wants to take the opposing opinion for sake of argument. I admire your wanting to do something about this Talio and I wish there were more out there with the fervor in which you present the issue. I don't really understand how this can knowingly occur in parks.

 

Its kind of like when your dog vomits on the carpet. Everyone knows its there but no one jumps to clean it up.

Edited April 8, 2005 by pnew

[Jeremy]

This will be my last post in this thread, it's obvious that the level of discussion on these boards has not reached the point where we can discuss what social issues may effect our game. I again apologize if I've offended anyone, I thought perhaps this was a problem that others have run into while caching and had suggestions for what they did with it. I apologize for causing controvesy, I thought it would be appropriate. Forgive me.

This is what is commonly seen as a "parting shot" from a forum poster. It normally happens when the user doesn't expect the response they receive and therefore makes general (incorrect) statements about how people think in a forum.

 

Quite the contrary, most folks have taken the position of "it happens" and "it sucks." But if you're expecting a bunch of people scattered around the globe to affect your own local parks you'll have some trouble. The best thing for you to do is work with your local community to clean up your parks, or even your local geocaching organization. I bet if there was an effort to the community to, say, have all kinds of events at one of these locations it would shame these folks to find a new playground.

 

I think that everyone here believes that sexual activity of any kind does not have a place in playgrounds and local parks, no matter whether it is hetero or homo. But to take action you have to take local action. Otherwise it's just a bunch of folks in a forum commiserating about a bad situation.

[+Team Wampus]

Talio, I understand your concerns completely, but I also understand these other posts are correct that it's been going on for a long time. That does NOT make it acceptable. The city and county parks around here are paid for by the taxpayers, yet the taxpayers avoid taking their families there due to the activities of a relatively few. However, as public park land becomes more and more important due to urban sprawl, there ARE ways to take back our parks. Here's one way the local police helped put a damper on it. Take special note of the sentence "police target locations based on citizen complaints". Also, the local Civil War Roundtable got busy bringing this particular Park to the public's attention for its historical significance. For other areas, you might try to get a city councilman or county commissioner involved. If it's a state park, go through the department that oversees the park. Instead of trying to get the governor's attention, try to stay as local as possible, as close to the park's management as you can. Good luck!

[Mushtang]

I also understand these other posts are correct that it's been going on for a long time. That does NOT make it acceptable.

I don't think anyone else said that because it's been going on for a long time then it was acceptable.

 

My point was that since it's been going on for as long as it has in various places, and hasn't taken over all parks yet, then it's a good bet that it won't.

[+CharlieP]

This is one of those issues that tends to get different responses from different folks depending primarily on their ... believe it or not ... age. Younger folks tend to have an outlook where it is not appropriate to pass judgement on ANY type of personal behavior. We old codgers are usually less restricted by political correctness.

 

I sometimes cache on weekdays, by myself, in various public parks and encounter men trolling for male partners. Besides being annoying, this sometimes makes me think I should carry a pistol. Funny, I feel safe in the deep woods with the bears and poisonous snakes, but feel the need to arm myself in suburban parks. This is not good. There has been a murder in one of these parks a few miles from my home. Another park in the area is so dedicated to this activity that geocaches placed there were quickly removed.

 

I think it is appropriate to discuss this here, if nothing else as a warning to other geocachers. But I am not sure at this point what would be a reasonable way to curtail this ... but a police sting operation would probably work. They use stings to bust hetero "Johns" so it seems reasonable to use the same method.

 

FWIW,

CharlieP

[+Talio]

This is what is commonly seen as a "parting shot" from a forum poster. It normally happens when the user doesn't expect the response they receive and therefore makes general (incorrect) statements about how people think in a forum.

 

Quite the contrary, most folks have taken the position of "it happens" and "it sucks." But if you're expecting a bunch of people scattered around the globe to affect your own local parks you'll have some trouble. The best thing for you to do is work with your local community to clean up your parks, or even your local geocaching organization. I bet if there was an effort to the community to, say, have all kinds of events at one of these locations it would shame these folks to find a new playground.

 

I think that everyone here believes that sexual activity of any kind does not have a place in playgrounds and local parks, no matter whether it is hetero or homo. But to take action you have to take local action. Otherwise it's just a bunch of folks in a forum commiserating about a bad situation.

This is what is commonly seen as a "elitest forum jerk placating his ego by pointing out the short comings of others". Ok, I'll play along. If you don't like my "parting shot", otherwise known as trying to stop arguements on the internet (because we all know what those are tatmount too), I'll continue you. You've all greatly misjudged me. Yes, they know about it, but they, like they are so inclined to do, are as passive aggressive like most of the general protestors. I am not that individual. As I said, like I've found in every aspect of my life, a little assertiveness goes a long way.

 

So this time I really will end this conversation because there is a great possibility that this subject will be closed. I'll reiterate my former assertion. This should not be happening in public parks. This is a family oriented area and allowing to continue without at least taking some steps to do something about it is a great injustice. It wouldn't be tolerated at a Chucky Cheese and it shouldn't be tolerated here.

 

Consider this a hijacking of my thread back. I will say what I tried to say earlier. I am not asking for anyone's help. I am not asking for anyone to do anything I am asking if anyone has a suggestion or has run into a similar situation, please post. Otherwise Please keep it to yourself.[/color=red] I never asked for attitude. Sorry I posted it, take that however you want, but this one will be my last post.

 

Talio.

[+Kit Fox]

My suggestion is post a warning on a cache page, if it leads you to an area where this activity is being engaged. If there aren't any caches in a particular park, don't place them there.

 

Take a camera, document the "pickling" and turn it in to the local media.

[+Renegade Knight]

....Consider this a hijacking of my thread back....

Talio, you need a thicker skin.

 

Jeremy had the real answer to the issue at hand.

...most folks have taken the position of "it happens" and "it sucks." But if you're expecting a bunch of people scattered around the globe to affect your own local parks you'll have some trouble. The best thing for you to do is work with your local community to clean up your parks, or even your local geocaching organization. I bet if there was an effort to the community to, say, have all kinds of events at one of these locations it would shame these folks to find a new playground.

 

I think that everyone here believes that sexual activity of any kind does not have a place in playgrounds and local parks, no matter whether it is hetero or homo. But to take action you have to take local action. Otherwise it's just a bunch of folks in a forum commiserating about a bad situation.

 

This is a forum. What you post opens a topic up for discussion. That discussion may or may not go how you expect.

[+Milbank]

[+mantis7]

These men not only cruise around the park stopping for long periods of time to stare at other men in vehicles...

 

Do you spend lots of time staring at them?

[Mushtang]

Sorry I posted it, take that however you want, but this one will be my last post.

 

Talio.

This time he really, really means it.

[+larsl]

If this was your town, happening down the street from you, what would you do?  Thanks for reading.

It is happening down the street from me (OK, not right now because I'm out of town). I actually found out about it while chasing the second stage in a multi, although I later found that I was several km off (going for the first stage first is cheating ). I was mostly surprised and a bit amused - it doesn't bother me. Although I think it is a little inconsiderate to use an area so close to town and not a bit further out in the woods, especially in Sweden where Public Access gives you the right to walk (and, I presume, have sex) anywhere as long as you're not in someone's back yard. And I wish they wouldn't leave so many paper towels behind.

 

I considered placing a cache there and list it on the site on a warm summer evening to see what the reaction from the FTF hunters would be, but decided not to since I don't think the people who bring their kids caching would appreciate it.

 

EDIT: Don't need that much whitespace.

Edited April 8, 2005 by larsl

[Jeremy]

This is what is commonly seen as a "elitest forum jerk placating his ego by pointing out the short comings of others". Ok, I'll play along.

You got me there, but you missed "Napoleon complex."

 

RK pointed out my second two paragraphs. You probably missed it as you were distracted, plunging the dagger deep in my heart (oof).

[+Milbank]

You probably missed it as you were distracted, plunging the dagger deep in my heart (oof).

[+mantis7]

Talio Said:

 

This is a family oriented area and allowing to continue without at least taking some steps to do something about it is a great injustice. It wouldn't be tolerated at a Chucky Cheese and it shouldn't be tolerated here.

 

OMGWTFBBQ???????????? You can't go in the "mouse hole" at Chucky Cheezes any more???????

 

Its over. I'm never "dining" there again. EVER.

[+Mopar]

I'm serious, if you are.

Hide a cache there.

Hide 3 if there is room.

Make sure they are great caches, not some wet micro-trash tossed 5ft off the trail.

Warn cachers that they might see this sort of thing, and if they do to take pictures.

Lots of pictures.

And post them (PG or nicer, please!) to the cache page.

[+spamhead]

...I'd love to hear one of you say that as you walk down a path with your 6 year old and find two men engaging in sexual acts. Perhaps I am taking this too seriously...

Perhaps.

 

 

Anyone need a group hug? (or is that inappropriate)

[+The Leprechauns]

Mopar, I did just like you said... back in August of 2003! I hid a cache in the park where the Magellan Treasure Hunt cache was located. The park perverts were quite annoyed that week, as the park was swarming with treasure seekers.

 

Unfortunately some seekers of my cache have encountered problems with the park perverts, leading me to post the following as part of my cache page description:

 

SAFETY AND AWARENESS NOTE:

 

Unfortunately, Settlers Cabin Park has long been a gathering point for "park perverts" in search of partners. Several geocachers have reported being followed into the woods, or otherwise being uncomfortable with the activities they've observed. As someone who has been assaulted by a "park pervert," I take this issue quite seriously. I recommend finding this cache with a group, or if you go alone, be extra aware of your surroundings and the presence of others. Parents bringing children on this hunt should either scout carefully or plan their trip for a summer weekend when the park is full of normal visitors. Rather than not having caches in parks like this, geocachers SHOULD go to these areas and help the community take back our parks from those who use them for illicit and immoral purposes.

 

I think that my cache page sums up my own feelings and experience in this area quite well. Oh, and the "assault" against me was an "unwanted touching" after being stalked in the woods, then running away from the guy and trying to hide in a laurel thicket. When he made his advance, I responded with a different type of "assault," called a "right uppercut." I now carry spray mace with me on most cache hunts.

[+SqueekyFD5]

Your not taking it serious enough in my opinion!

[+The Leprechauns]

Your not taking it serious enough in my opinion!

I'm not 100% sure who you are addressing in your reply, but if it's me, what would you have me do? Pull my cache if it's in a pervert park? Refuse to hike in pervert parks?

 

NO WAY. They are MY parks, OUR parks. I won't surrender them over to the park perverts. I will shine flashlights, take pictures, dress up like a park ranger... whatever... just to annoy them. I will continue to use OUR parks for geocaching and other outdoor activities. I will just be careful when doing so.

 

If I witnessed illegal activity of any kind, I would likely call law enforcement. I haven't had a chance to do that yet for park perverts, but I have blown the whistle on an ATV rider who was riding on a trail where they weren't permitted. (The assault incident occurred while I was on the road from Pittsburgh to GeoWoodstock in Nashville. Needing to stay on schedule, I chose to leave the Cincinnati area rather than stay and provide a police report.)

[+Kai Team]

While I do not condone sexual activity in public parks, I don't see how men exchanging glances is fundamentally different from "coming across a couple of teens making out in the bushes", or why homosexual activity "makes me think I should carry a pistol", or why someone would call people "perverts", unless one has a stereotyped view of homosexuals. This thread is beginning to feel like a thinly veiled opportunity to express a social bias, not a discussion of a geocaching issue.

 

Homosexuals are people - good people, bad people, law abiding people, criminals, church going or not - no different than heterosexuals, except for their sexual orientation, which is biological, not a "preference" or choice (who would choose to be treated the way homosexuals are treated in our society?). Given the prevelance of homosexuality (10-20%, based on various studies), odds are good that some of your coworkers, neighbors, friend or family members that you like and respect are homosexual - you just don't know it.

 

Parks that become "pickle parks" are in trouble long before homosexual activity moves in - they're poorly maintained, poorly lit, poorly patrolled, and a site for other illegal activities (underage drinking, drug use and dealing, robberies and assaults, prostitution, graffiti, vandalism, etc) - it is this general neglect that sets the stage for homosexual activity, not the other way around.

 

As far as geocaching is concerned, if you get hit on while caching, recognize it for what it is, be assertive and politely say "Sorry, I'm straight" (before the person stalks you or tries to touch you - you've let it go on way to long if it reaches that point) and walk away, just as you would if a woman hit on you and you're married. If you're worried about kids being exposed to sexual activity, post a log on the cache page, and email the cache owner to politely suggest that they add a note to the cache description and use the "not kid friendly" attribute.

 

If you're worried about the general condition of the park, address the root causes: find or found a local "friends of the park" organization, volunteer and lobby for more park funding to promote better maintenance, better lighting, more patrols, etc. Just don't turn it into a gay bashing crusade, because homosexuals are not the root cause of the problem, nor will getting them to move on make this the pristine park it once was.

[+Miragee]

Thank you, Kai Team!

 

Excellent post!

[+Divine]

I thought perhaps this was a problem that others have run into while caching and had suggestions for what they did with it.

I actually ran into that kind of 'problem' while geocaching couple of months ago. A man was clearly hitting on me in broad daylight at a place that I later heard is a cruising spot indeed. It took me awhile to realize what was going on - heck, I first thought he was a geocacher too and almost suggested if we were looking for the same thing.

 

What I did with it? I said: 'Oh, now I get it. But no thanks.' And gave a charming smile and walked away. A minute later I saw him walking away into the woods. Big deal. At no point did I feel my safety threatened.

 

P.s. Good post, Kai Team!

Edited April 8, 2005 by Divine

[+The Leprechauns]

I strongly disagree with the apologist for park perverts.

 

There is a world of difference between engaging in sexual activity in one's own home, and doing it in a public place. There's laws against public lewd acts, whether they're perpetrated by straight or gay people.

 

The vast majority of gay people that I know, including my sister, would never dream of having sex in full view of families trying to enjoy a walk in a public park. The small minority who do, well they are park perverts. I would say the same thing about a heterosexual male who runs around the park exposing himself in front of young women.

 

This thread is about a geocaching issue because it is a real problem that geocachers encounter each and every day. I am sick of encountering it. Talking about what to do about it is an appropriate forum topic, IMHO.

 

I have hunted for more than 1,300 geocaches and I've encountered park perverts dozens of times. There were two caches in Illinois that I would've skipped if I had not been with a group, including "Beverly," the second-oldest surviving cache in the world. The parking lot was infested, and our group observed a couple walking back from their tryst in the woods.

 

In all of those cache hunts, I've never *once* encountered parking lots full of heterosexuals looking for partners. Nor have I ever been stalked and assaulted by a female lurking around in a park on a weekday afternoon.

 

Each and every one of the pervert parks I've found caches in has otherwise been a nice area, well-maintained, and not the subject of "general neglect" as asserted by the park pervert apologist. I want to enjoy those parks without the park perverts, because they're otherwise very nice places. Once we got 250 feet from the parking lot, Beverly was a thoroughly enjoyable cache hunt.

 

And please don't purport to tell me how I ought to have reacted to the situation that happened to me. You weren't there. If running .2 miles through thick underbrush and thorns, and hiding on the ground in a thicket, isn't enough to tell a park pervert that I'm not interested, I'm not sure what is. When he reached into the thicket and placed his hand on my left arm, my right arm reacted rather instinctively. It was no longer a time for chit chat.

[+Gorak]

While I do not condone sexual activity in public parks...

Wow! The first rational, intelligent response in this whole thread. Kudos to you, Kai Team.

[+mantis7]

The vast majority of gay people that I know, including my sister, would never dream of having sex in full view of families trying to enjoy a walk in a public park.

 

Ummmm. Wouldn't this apply to the majority of PEOPLE and not just gay people?

 

(PS - Excellent post KAI TEAM, kudos for being one of the few who put some thought into their post!)

Edited April 8, 2005 by mantis7

[+The Leprechauns]

Nice selective quoting job. Read the rest of the paragraph... I would say the same thing of a heterosexual person or couple doing the same thing.

[+mantis7]

If running .2 miles through thick underbrush and thorns, and hiding on the ground in a thicket, isn't enough to tell a park pervert that I'm not interested, I'm not sure what is. When he reached into the thicket and placed his hand on my left arm, my right arm reacted rather instinctively. It was no longer a time for chit chat.

 

Thanks for the visual...Sounds romantic.

[+Kai Team]

And please don't purport to tell me how I ought to have reacted to the situation that happened to me.  You weren't there.  If running .2 miles through thick underbrush and thorns, and hiding on the ground in a thicket, isn't enough to tell a park pervert that I'm not interested, I'm not sure what is.  When he reached into the thicket and placed his hand on my left arm, my right arm reacted rather instinctively.  It was no longer a time for chit chat.

Good thing he wasn't an undercover cop who thought you were enticing him into a more private spot for some illegal behavior - you'd now be doing 5-10 for not knowing how to "use your words".

 

If assaulting someone for touching your arm doesn't show irrational fear, I don't know what does. Next time, try telling him you're not interested - you can still punch him out if he doesn't listen.

 

Edit: Typo

Edited April 8, 2005 by Kai Team

[mufasa1023]

soooo.....ummmm....if someone was interested in finding one of these parks....for ummmmm RESEARCH purposes where would one look?

[+briansnat]

Nor have I ever been stalked and assaulted by a female lurking around in a park on a weekday afternoon.

 

Too bad for you. Happens to me all the time.

 

Every time this issue comes up an apologist or two for these perverts pops in. Having open sex in a park is inappropriate, unlawful and - yes - perverted. Kai Team is right on one point, the homosexual community does consist of good people, bad people, law abiding people and criminals. The problem is when the bad people and criminals among them take over a public park.

 

The issue is not just one guy hitting on another. Heck, I've been hit on and I was't offended at all (In a strange way I was kind of flattered. Hey at least SOMEONE thinks I'm hot ). The issue is when these perverts (and they are perverts) take over a park and you can't walk through without being followed, or observing open sexual behavior. And I'm not referring to one couple in the bushes. I'm talking about dozens of couples, some in the bushes, some in the cars, some in the open and some just cruising. It is wrong and indefensible.

 

Parks that become "pickle parks" are in trouble long before homosexual activity moves in - they're poorly maintained, poorly lit, poorly patrolled, and a site for other illegal activities (underage drinking, drug use and dealing, robberies and assaults, prostitution, graffiti, vandalism, etc) - it is this general neglect that sets the stage for homosexual activity, not the other way around.

 

This hasn't been my experience. I've seen some very nice parks taken over by this debauchery.

Edited April 9, 2005 by briansnat

[+Bob Blaylock]

And please don't purport to tell me how I ought to have reacted to the situation that happened to me.  You weren't there.  If running .2 miles through thick underbrush and thorns, and hiding on the ground in a thicket, isn't enough to tell a park pervert that I'm not interested, I'm not sure what is.  When he reached into the thicket and placed his hand on my left arm, my right arm reacted rather instinctively.  It was no longer a time for chit chat.

Good thing he wasn't an undercover cop who thought you were enticing him into a more private spot for some illegal behavior - you'd now be doing 5-10 for not knowing how to "use your words".

 

If assaulting someone for touching your arm doesn't show irrational fear, I don't know what does. Next time, try telling him you're not interested - you can still punch him out if he doesn't listen.

  Actually, unwanted touching, even if not blatantly violent, constitutes assault.  If Leprechauns made it reasonably clear to the pervert that he was not interested, and the pervert insisted on touching him, then Leprechauns was entirely within his rights, at that point, to resort to more forceful means to make his point.

[+Chalky723]

Especially after running .2 miles to get away first......

[+Mopar]

And please don't purport to tell me how I ought to have reacted to the situation that happened to me.  You weren't there.  If running .2 miles through thick underbrush and thorns, and hiding on the ground in a thicket, isn't enough to tell a park pervert that I'm not interested, I'm not sure what is.  When he reached into the thicket and placed his hand on my left arm, my right arm reacted rather instinctively.  It was no longer a time for chit chat.

Good thing he wasn't an undercover cop who thought you were enticing him into a more private spot for some illegal behavior - you'd now be doing 5-10 for not knowing how to "use your words".

 

If assaulting someone for touching your arm doesn't show irrational fear, I don't know what does. Next time, try telling him you're not interested - you can still punch him out if he doesn't listen.

 

Edit: Typo

Let's see, some stranger chases you, RUNNING, through the woods for close to 1/4 mile, and then catches you and GRABS you, and you think that was an IRRATIONAL fear?

 

My dear Kai, in most states that would be a legally acceptable use of deadly force, and the pervert is quite lucky he was only hit with a fist and and not maced, stabbed, or shot.