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South Carolina Legislation Meeting


TinSparrow
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Is this a violation? Maybe not "geocaching", but you still are finding a "specific location".

That's the way I'm reading it.

 

Here's one that might get their attention. Say, your friend had a great meal at "51 King," a five star restaurant and the address is 51 King Street. (I made up the name but they like to name their shops and restaurants like that down there.) You punch in the "51 King street, Charleston, SC" into your in-car navigation system. You are using a GPS to find a specified location and considering 51 King St. would in the in the heart of Historic Downtown Charleston which is listed on the National Register you are in violation.

 

That's how I'm reading it anyway.

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BTW, the new version of the bill would criminalize benchmark hunting in those restricted areas without EWP (Express Writting Permission.)

 

Historic districts no big deal? Take a look at this picture. Note the heavy black line denotes the area inside which would be restricted under this bill.

 

You would no longer be able to take a GPS guided tour of all the old houses, churches, or interesting architecture inside that area. Oh, unless you had EWP from each of the properties--there are over 700 individual properties within that area.

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Mr. Neal, the legislator from Kershaw, and I just had a short informative talk. He had no idea what Geocaching was. Interesting. How many folks are going to vote for this not knowing what it is. He was very interested in hearing about CITO. A whole road crew that cost the state nothing! Well, time to educate ALL the legislators that aren't on the bill. Maybe we can stop this after all.

 

X

 

Yeah I know, same exact post as before but it was the same exact situation.

GET TO THE PHONES PEOPLE!

I suspect a number of the bill's signatories may have imagined, from the way the word "Geocaching" is structured, that it may be some kind of "extreme sport", cf paragliding, BASE jumping, etc. And pictures of what they imagine to be the "MTV generation" making silly faces in graveyards will just remind them of their own teenage kids' perceived faults.

 

Good job it's not still (often) called "GPS Stash Hunt" or they'd call in the DEA. But perhaps "GPS Culture Class" might be a better alternative name. :laughing:

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"Geocaching" means the activity of participants using a global positioning system (GPS) device to locate the geocache or other specific location.

 

I think restaurants, gas stations, hotels and other services that are listed in GPS software like Metroguide and located in these areas, might have something to say about this.

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I suggest that the SCGA or even Groundspeak contact all of the GPS and automobile companies that provide GPS mapping for auto/truck/motorcycle navigation. Anyone using a vehicle mounted GPS to locate a restaurant, hospital, or even a National/State/Local tourist destination would be illegal in the areas specified in the bill. OnStar may have something to say about this new bill. Not to mention the fire, police, and EMS systems out there that use onboard mapping to locate emergencies.

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:laughing: I just saw this on the states SC House Daily Journal for Tuesday, April 19, 2005.

 

H. 3777 (Word version) -- Reps. Ceips, Loftis, Breeland, Scott, Whipper, Hosey, Vaughn, Anthony, Battle, Chalk, Clyburn, Dantzler, Hardwick, Harvin, Herbkersman, J. Hines, Howard, Jefferson, Kirsh, Lee, Martin, McCraw, Miller, Moody-Lawrence, J. H. Neal, Perry, M. A. Pitts, Rivers, Scarborough, Simrill, Toole and Umphlett: A BILL TO AMEND THE CODE OF LAWS OF SOUTH CAROLINA, 1976, BY ADDING SECTION 16-17-605 SO AS TO DEFINE THE TERMS "GEOCACHE", "GEOCACHING", AND "LETTERBOXING", TO PROVIDE THAT IT IS UNLAWFUL TO ENGAGE IN GEOCACHING OR LETTERBOXING IN CEMETERIES, ARCHEOLOGICAL SITES, OR ON THE HISTORIC PROPERTIES OF THE STATE, AND TO PROVIDE A PENALTY.

:yikes:Ordered for consideration tomorrow. :unsure:

Edited by wkhaz
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You would not be allowed to use your OnStar or GPS map in you car in these areas of Lexington County, SC, because they are on the Partial listing of The South Carolina inventory of Historic Properties for Lexington County:

 

· I/26 and Airport Blvd.,Columbia Airport vicinity

· S-172/S-408 intersection

· Proposed SC-302 Widening

· Section of US 1 over an Abandoned RR for Bridge Replacement, Town of Batesburg

· SCE&G Saluda Dam Complex

· SC Route 6 Improvements Project

· 1-20/SC Route 6 Interchange Improvements Project

· SC Route 60-SC Route 6 Improvements

· SC 6 Road Improvements Project, Lake Murray

· SC 602 Widening from Charleston Highway (US21) to S-168,

· Springdale vicinity, Columbia Airport Road

· US 378 Widening from Road S-24 to the Saluda County Line

· Lexington Bypass

· SC 302 Widening from I-26 to S-415, South Congaree

· Proposed US 378 Widening

· Proposed SC-6/SC-302 Intersection Improvements Project

· Chapin - town - Chapin Methodist Church

· Lexington - Town and Vicinity

· West Columbia (includes New Brookland) – City, “town limits"

· Irmo – Town

· Chapin - Town

· Swansea - Town

· Pelion - Town

· Lexington – County, "buildings and sites within and adjacent to town limits;"

· Gaston - Town

· Batesburg - Town

· Leesville - Town

· Swansea - Town

· West Columbia - City

 

http://www.state.sc.us/scdah/hpsurvy/countylist.htm

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All of this complaining about not being able to use car navigation systems is really pretty silly. We all know this is not something that will be enforced. They're going stop you ticket you and fine you if you're WALKING in an area with a HANDHELP GPS unit looking for something in the woods! So why do we talk about something productive for a change please?

 

Stephanie

S of tands

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Bill 3777 will most likely be introduced today when the House meets starting at 10am (about 10 mins from now)

 

So, please, I know this is a sticky topic right now but everyone take a deep breath and just wait to see what our next action might have to be. Yes airing out your thoughts can sometimes be good, but remember not everyone who reads these posts are against the bill like we are. So please, lets consider the image we are giving through our posts.

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All of this complaining about not being able to use car navigation systems is really pretty silly. We all know this is not something that will be enforced. They're going stop you ticket you and fine you if you're WALKING in an area with a HANDHELP GPS unit looking for something in the woods! So why do we talk about something productive for a change please?

 

Stephanie

S of tands

Everyone is punishable by law. This is nothing silly. If you are using a GPS by the way the bill is worded you are in violation.

 

Bill 3777 will most likely be introduced today when the House meets starting at 10am (about 10 mins from now)

 

There is a funeral for one of the members today. Mr. Neal told me he would be surprised if this made it to the agenda today.

 

X

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We all know this is not something that will be enforced. They're going stop you ticket you and fine you if you're WALKING in an area with a HANDHELP GPS unit looking for something in the woods! So why do we talk about something productive for a change please?

So what we have is alot of people trying to make somethig into law that will never be enforced...Then why the bother of putting into law. And if something is a law i surely would want it enforced otherwise its a complete waste of my tax dollars from the day they started taking about it all the way through the printing of it in the books. From what i have read, this isn't about walking in the woods, this has to do with a much larger area than that. The point is not whether tickets will be written but rather why are we being forced to break the law just to explore and learn more about our history in a more modern fashion. If we were exploring these areas with a paper map e wouldn't be subject to this law but since our map is electronic we are. I have never cached in SC but i don't like the way a few people are able to get a few government officials behind them to create something that will take my rights away. If i am not bothering anyone or causing any destruction, while at the same time i am learning about our history and remember those before me in my own way, then who's buisness is it to tell me i am not playing their way. Private areas already have laws against this, called tresspassing. We also have laws against vandalism. We don't need more laws against things, we need enforcement that is already on the books. We also need to encourage our children to go to these areas and learn to have respect for the things that have happened and the ones who mad us who we are. If using a GPS is the way to do it, then this should be encouraged not considered law breaking. If you don't live in an area where this could happen then thats great. If you don't care one way or the other, then that too is your choice. But for some people living in this area, this is very real to them. So please don't make this so trivial and treat the posters here as being anti-productive. They are trying to be very productive by attending meetings and trying to explain the great merits geocachers bring to the table. We should be showing them our support and not creating an environment where the politicians and such decide when and where we play.

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Bill 3777 will most likely be introduced today when the House meets starting at 10am (about 10 mins from now)

 

There is a funeral for one of the members today. Mr. Neal told me he would be surprised if this made it to the agenda today.

 

X

I'm sorry to hear there was a death, I'll check the notes this afternoon and see what the House did and for those who are coming tonight to the meeting hopefully will have an update of some kind if anything did happen.

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We all know this is not something that will be enforced. They're going stop you ticket you and fine you if you're WALKING in an area with a HANDHELP GPS unit looking for something in the woods! So why do we talk about something productive for a change please?

So what we have is alot of people trying to make somethig into law that will never be enforced...Then why the bother of putting into law. And if something is a law i surely would want it enforced otherwise its a complete waste of my tax dollars from the day they started taking about it all the way through the printing of it in the books. From what i have read, this isn't about walking in the woods, this has to do with a much larger area than that. The point is not whether tickets will be written but rather why are we being forced to break the law just to explore and learn more about our history in a more modern fashion. If we were exploring these areas with a paper map e wouldn't be subject to this law but since our map is electronic we are. I have never cached in SC but i don't like the way a few people are able to get a few government officials behind them to create something that will take my rights away. If i am not bothering anyone or causing any destruction, while at the same time i am learning about our history and remember those before me in my own way, then who's buisness is it to tell me i am not playing their way. Private areas already have laws against this, called tresspassing. We also have laws against vandalism. We don't need more laws against things, we need enforcement that is already on the books. We also need to encourage our children to go to these areas and learn to have respect for the things that have happened and the ones who mad us who we are. If using a GPS is the way to do it, then this should be encouraged not considered law breaking. If you don't live in an area where this could happen then thats great. If you don't care one way or the other, then that too is your choice. But for some people living in this area, this is very real to them. So please don't make this so trivial and treat the posters here as being anti-productive. They are trying to be very productive by attending meetings and trying to explain the great merits geocachers bring to the table. We should be showing them our support and not creating an environment where the politicians and such decide when and where we play.

AMEN!!!!! ;)

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Making a list of citys you couldn't navigate to in a car by gps is silly, because it's not the issue at hand.I guarantee you that if tis does pass and becomes a law you could walk up to a police officer and tell them you just navigated to a historic site with a gps and they would do nothing about it. The other part of the bill is about finding containers. most tourists aren't going to be doing this.

 

Stephanie

Edited by tands
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Making a list of citys you couldn't navigate to in a car by gps is silly, because it's not the issue at hand.I guarantee you that if tis does pass and becomes a law you could walk up to a police officer and tell them you just navigated to a historic site with a gps and they would do nothing about it. The other part of the bill is about finding containers. most tourists aren't going to be doing this.

 

Stephanie

It's not silly. It's real. If this passes, IT WILL BE LAW, and subject to enforcement. Granted, police will probably not be staking out sites of having Geocache Sting Operations,...

 

But the bill was amended in committee to redefine Geocaching.

 

Instead of: " 'Geocaching' means the activity of hiding a geocache container from public view for the challenge of participants using a global positioning system (GPS) device and internet published coordinates to locate the geocache."

 

The new definition is: " 'Geocaching' means the activity of participants using a global positioning system (GPS) device to locate the geocache or another specific location."

 

So if I am in the area Geocaching, and want to find a place to eat, I cannot use my GPS to direct me to the restaurant.

 

Additional, " 'Geocache' means the container that serves the purpose of providing a place to store small items or logbooks which are intentionally placed by their owners."

 

So if you are a fireman trying to locate a lockbox that contains an industrial sites gate access key or a set of Material Safety Data Sheets in an industrial setting, that would be considered a Geocache.

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This bill would also outlaw activities such as Earth Caching http://www.earthcache.org/

 

From the Erath Cache web site:

"An Earthcache is a special place that people can visit to learn about a unique geoscience feature or aspect of our Earth. Earthcaches include a set of educational notes and the details about where to find the location (latitude and longitude). Visitors to Earthcaches can see how our planet has been shaped by geological processes, how we manage the resources and how scientists gather evidence to learn about the Earth."

 

Sponsors and partners of Earth Cache Are:

Subaru

The Geological Society of America

National Park Service

Groundspeak

Leave No Trace Outdoor Ethics

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Making a list of citys you couldn't navigate to in a car by gps is silly, because it's not the issue at hand.I guarantee you that if tis does pass and becomes a law you could walk up to a police officer and tell them you just navigated to a historic site with a gps and they would do nothing about it. The other part of the bill is about finding containers. most tourists aren't going to be doing this.

 

Stephanie

Unless he didn't like the looks of you for some reason and wanted to use that as an excuse to take you into custody, search your car, etc. One always hears the excuse that yes, a law may be interpreted to do something, but we're really only going to use it on that group of people over there. Then they go ahead and start applying it more broadly than they said they would, and in confirmation of the objector's fears. It happened with RICO, it happened with asset forfeiture, it'll happen with this.

 

Geocachers area loosely organized group of hobbyists. Why not contact GM, On Star and GPSr manufacturers? Perhaps the AOPA (Airline Owners and Pilots Association) as well? I can definitely see the possibility of this being used to harrass general aviation pilots flying through historic areas if they're using a GPS to navigate.

 

All those organizations have things that we don't. They have lawyers on retainer, and in some cases have numerous lobbyists as well. There's nothing wrong with our friends in SC trying to find allies to help them in this fight.

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I have a call in to Hertz regarding this issue. While it might seem unlikely that a person would be penalized for using an on board navigation system to locate a restaurant in Charleston that was housed within a historic building, is that a chance that a car rental company would want to take?

 

A similar conversation could be had with the owner of a restaurant housed in an historic building. This legislation makes it illegal to use an on board navigation system to locate their place of business.

 

Always remember, these forums are being read by others.

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Making a list of citys you couldn't navigate to in a car by gps is silly, because it's not the issue at hand.I guarantee you that if tis does pass and becomes a law you could walk up to a police officer and tell them you just navigated to a historic site with a gps and they would do nothing about it. The other part of the bill is about finding containers. most tourists aren't going to be doing this.

 

Stephanie

I don't know if you get it fully or are just trying o play devils advocate...This is not silly, at least to a major section of cachers and people who enjoy the areas now. Just because (A) the officer is not well informed of the new law , or (;) he does not feel like enforcing it is not the point. The point is that it is still the law and in order for you to enjoy the game as we know it, you must break a law. This means you CAN be held accountable for your actions which are no more than sightseeing in some cases. Why make it so that when some politician or police chief needed revenue, all he has to do it sit there and ticket you for GPS usage. Don't you see the waste of money going into making this a law? Something you yourself say is unenforcable. If nothing else that should cause you to get upset.

 

As far as the part about finding containers and most tourists aren't going to be doing this....the key word is MOST. Should this be illegal for any of them? If this doesnt affect then great. But at the same time if you don't fell this will affect you and is silly, then why take a stance against the people who feel it does affect them and belittle what they are trying to do. Personally if i didn't agree to he point i thought they were being silly i would sit back and watch at the very most. Nothing bad can come from the cachers trying to stop a bill from becoming a law. You can only reap the benefits of them stopping it.

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I have already taken the liberty of emailing both OnStar and the SC dept of Tourism with my views on this legislation this morning. If there is anything else that I can do to help my SC brothers, please let me know via PM or a post in this thread. Otherwise I will stand by and wait.

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My point was, these people are not out to kill tourism. It's a major part of this state's livelihood. I agree that the bill is poorly written, but I am sure this bill will be ammended to remove those loopholes that are being discussed on this forum. So why are we going to rely on them to keep this bill from passing. It's not going to help us in the long rong combatting it. I promise. You have to give these guys credit. They want to limit GEOCACHING really not the use of GPS.

 

Stephanie

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And the people here are trying to combat them trying outlaw the geocaching in any area they see fit to. Without the gps we dont have geocaching. Its not about killing tourism, its about killing a game which teaches about history, get people involved, and gets people out of their arm chairs and using their body, which for some is the only reason we walk anywhere. By what i read from your comments is you don't have a problem with them limiting geocaching then? You are fine with the bill/law as is proposed? I don't thinkwe need more laws, just enforcement of what is alredy on the books.

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I do have a problem with it, but I think we need to come up with an organized way to do something meaningful. Because stating reasons why the bill won't pass as it is currently written and just complaining on the boards isn't getting us anywhere. It was more of a plea for something worthwhile to do. I've written to my senator and Representative, but it just seems like there is something more.

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I'm sorry if i misunderstood where you were coing from then as i think most of us responding to you did. From your text of calling it silly and not really thinking it would be enforced, you appeared on the other side of the fence. More to do to help would be attend the meetings that have been metioned before, remain positive and thoughtful in the threads, continue to make your elected officials understand the vastness of these actions.

 

Maybe someone could update a list here again with the names and numbers of officials to contact since its gotten buried pretty quickly in this thread.

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So how can you police the use of the GPS in a car when the people who are suppose to police will be breaking the law also if they use theirs?

 

Just everyone cool down please!!! we are a geocaching community and people butting head over this is not going to help, like TinSparrow said other people read these posts to so lets please just write letters, make phone calls, and do what we must to help with our image the ever going whining about IF this happens and IF this happens is really getting a little old, instead of doing this, call, write, kill the bill

 

I am sorry if I have offended anyone, for those who know me it is VERY rare that I get like this.

 

So everyone kindly remove your GPS from places of the unknown and focus on educating the people who truly need it, and not where I have to hide my GPS IF this bill passes

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Ok folks here is the most updated version of the bill, HS 3777. I spoke with one of the authors of the bill and these are the factors you are up against.

 

1. "We can police ourselves” – The state archeologist tried to contact GC.com for a year, e-mail, regular mail, registered mail and no one responded. So clearly we cannot police ourselves in the eyes of the people who drafted this bill.

2. It does not matter how many other agencies; Federal (Bureau of Land Management or the US Forestry Service), state, or local allow Geocaching. The National Park Service and Fish & Wildlife have banned Geocaching and that is all the author would discuss. It does not matter that the NPS allows caches such as Hopewell’s Last Blast or that it was created with the approval of the National Park Service. The current policy of the NPS remains, no Geocaching.

3. Having spoken with one of the people who drafted this bill they are adamant that Geocaches hidden and searched for in cemeteries is highly offensive. This is a huge source of concern for the local citizens who pushed for this bill. Any educational information that can be learned from these caches, can be found through other sources besides Geocaching. Keep in mind that the primary reason this bill was created was because of Geocaches hidden in cemeteries

4. This bill only covers cemeteries, archeological sites, and historic properties, this could have easily turned into no Geocaching on any land owned or controlled by the State of South Carolina. This bill looks like it is designed to protect the heritage of South Carolina.

 

Personally I would be asking for an amendment to allow caches to be placed with permission of the property owner. Which is a reasonable option.

Edited by magellan315
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4. This bill only covers cemeteries, archeological sites, and historic properties, this could have easily turned into no Geocaching on any land owned or controlled by the State of South Carolina. This bill looks like it is designed to protect the heritage of South Carolina.

Sorry, but this now covers locations that are, in part, on the South Carolina Inventory of Historic Properties. The SCDOT has areas listed in the South Carolina Inventory of Historic Properties because they are doing road construction and needed to survey for historical sites.

 

If it's listed on the South Carolina Inventory of Historic Properties, it applies. Entire cities, towns, and major highways are on the South Carolina Inventory of Historic Properties. Not just specific historical or archeological sites.

 

You would not be allowed to use your OnStar or GPS map in you car in these areas of Lexington County, SC, because they are on the Partial listing of The South Carolina inventory of Historic Properties for Lexington County:

 

· I/26 and Airport Blvd.,Columbia Airport vicinity

· S-172/S-408 intersection

· Proposed SC-302 Widening

· Section of US 1 over an Abandoned RR for Bridge Replacement, Town of Batesburg

· SCE&G Saluda Dam Complex

· SC Route 6 Improvements Project

· 1-20/SC Route 6 Interchange Improvements Project

· SC Route 60-SC Route 6 Improvements

· SC 6 Road Improvements Project, Lake Murray

· SC 602 Widening from Charleston Highway (US21) to S-168,

· Springdale vicinity, Columbia Airport Road

· US 378 Widening from Road S-24 to the Saluda County Line

· Lexington Bypass

· SC 302 Widening from I-26 to S-415, South Congaree

· Proposed US 378 Widening

· Proposed SC-6/SC-302 Intersection Improvements Project

· Chapin - town - Chapin Methodist Church

· Lexington - Town and Vicinity

· West Columbia (includes New Brookland) – City, “town limits"

· Irmo – Town

· Chapin - Town

· Swansea - Town

· Pelion - Town

· Lexington – County, "buildings and sites within and adjacent to town limits;"

· Gaston - Town

· Batesburg - Town

· Leesville - Town

· Swansea - Town

· West Columbia - City

 

http://www.state.sc.us/scdah/hpsurvy/countylist.htm

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So what we have is alot of people trying to make somethig into law that will never be enforced...Then why the bother of putting into law.

The simple answer is ... politics. I would speculate that there is a lot of anti-tourism and anti-outsider sentiment in areas like Beaufort, and the politicians, esp. Ms. Ceips, are playing on this. SC already has a lot of laws they don't enforce ... this is apparently a very political state ... maybe right up there with Arkansas and Louisiana.

 

From my personal perspective, we have been considering a vacation home and Hilton Head or Beaufort were possibilities ... but I am not so sure I want to spend a lot of time in SC now ... Florida is looking better and better. Coincidentally, we will be in Beaufort Friday on a vacation trip ... but probably won't be looking at real estate. Future vacations to SC are also less likely. Some of the supporters of this bill may be happy about that, but on the whole, it is not good for SC. But who cares?

 

The way most minority political groups deal with stuff like this is by supporting the opponents of the legislators proposing restrictions. This is the main way an out-of-state person can influence legislation. Money talks ...

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If it's listed on the South Carolina Inventory of Historic Properties, it applies. Entire cities, towns, and major highways are on the South Carolina Inventory of Historic Properties. Not just specific historical or archeological sites.

 

Your right and that list is very extensive. I had to go back and reread the bill and it does allow for Geocaching in these locations provided you get consent from the land owner. Which is a reasonable option.

 

As someone who lives in state where this is an exsisting practice it may require a little more effort to hide a cache or to create a policy, but it does work. You'd be amazed how fast someone will come around if you arrange for a CITO in exchange for permission tohide a cache.

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As for the NPS ban, I'm not sure it actually exists in official policy. There are physical caches on NPS land. Here's one. The information I've seen is regulations under which one could be charged for placing a cache. However, I'm thinking those would be irrelevant if a Ranger gives his approval. It's getting the approval that's the question.

 

But, if there was an official policy how could that cache on NPS exist?

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As for the NPS ban, I'm not sure it actually exists in official policy. There are physical caches on NPS land. Here's one. The information I've seen is regulations under which one could be charged for placing a cache. However, I'm thinking those would be irrelevant if a Ranger gives his approval. It's getting the approval that's the question.

 

But, if there was an official policy how could that cache on NPS exist?

Don't forget, South Carolina also has NPS caches that have been approved by the local Ranger. The caches placed by KCFREE at Star Fort fall into this category.

 

I've searched the NPS and DOI websites as best I can looking for the text of the regulation, and I've not been able to find it. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

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1. "We can police ourselves” – The state archeologist tried to contact GC.com for a year, e-mail, regular mail, registered mail and no one responded. So clearly we cannot police ourselves in the eyes of the people who drafted this bill.

The archeologist has been working with Hydee for a while now and now supports the side of geocaching and is impressed with our communication channels. We have provided a direct line of contact for any offical with concerns the emails are recvied by the local reviewer, Hydee and a member of the SCGA steering committee. No communication will fall through the cracks.

 

You can take issue #1 off your list.

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I had a fruitful conversation with my representative. She is not going to support this bill. It's too intrusive. She understands, as do I, the need for a property owner to defend their property, but laws are already on the books for that.

I have to applaud CR of taking the time and energy to accomplish this. If we can get 250 more geocachers to talk there representative SC Geocachers could wipe this bill down where it belongs.

 

Maybe CR you could explain exactly how you were able to get in touch with your Representative so that others could follow in your footsteps. Even if half were contacted that is all this would need. This is really the time for everyone to step forward and put a little time and energy into this passion.

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I sent a carefully constructed and polite email last night to the SC house representatives expressing concerns about the overbroad drafting of the bill and the act of a state seeking to limit an activity that would be better left to local regulation. Even though I am in Nebraska I figured it could not hurt. ;)

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The archeologist has been working with Hydee for a while now and now supports the side of geocaching and is impressed with our communication channels. We have provided a direct line of contact for any offical with concerns the emails are recvied by the local reviewer, Hydee and a member of the SCGA steering committee. No communication will fall through the cracks.

 

You can take issue #1 off your list.

Jeremy I am very relieved to hear this and this should be mentioned in every letter that gets mailed out on this issue.

 

#1 is based on my conversation with one of the authors of the bill, she was very adamant that the 1 year with no responses to the State Archeologist was an example that we(geocachers) can not police ourselves. The fact that the State Archeologist has changed his position on this issue was of no real concern to her.

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As for the NPS ban, I'm not sure it actually exists in official policy. ...

But, if there was an official policy how could that cache on NPS exist?

What I was told that the NPS "ban" was based on "Code of Federal Regulations, Title 36"

 

Which in

CHAPTER I--NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

PART 2--RESOURCE PROTECTION, PUBLIC USE AND RECREATION--Table of Contents

Sec. 2.22 Property.

 

Says

 

(a) The following are prohibited:

(1) Abandoning property.

(2) Leaving property unattended for longer than 24 hours, except in

locations where longer time periods have been designated or in

accordance with conditions established by the superintendent.

 

See Sec. 2.22 Property

 

So there is no ban of geocaches, just ban on leaving property unattended for more than 24 hours unless permission is given by the superintendent. Which to me means permission can be given.

 

Note I am not a lawyer nor play one on the internet.

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... #1 is based on my conversation with one of the authors of the bill, she was very adamant that the 1 year with no responses to the State Archeologist was an example that we(geocachers) can not police ourselves. The fact that the State Archeologist has changed his position on this issue was of no real concern to her.

You will never turn her around. I wouldn't waste my time on that. Energies are much better put to use getting those legislators who don't care about this issue one way or the other to vote against it. Certainly, the members who have come out in support of it should be contacted, but I wouldn't waste time on those that are clearly not interested in seeing our side.

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As for the NPS ban, I'm not sure it actually exists in official policy.

I think there is such a policy ... but the NPS is re-considering it.

 

This is from this link:

 

FSEEE

 

Quote:

Marcia Keener, a program analyst for the Park Service policy office ...

 

Certain national parks are willing to allow caches in designated areas once the hider has applied for and received a land-use permit; however, Keener says procedures established by Congress for reviewing these applications take time and money. Special permits can cost as much as $100, and may be good for only forty-eight hours. ...

 

But Keener says there is room for compromise between cachers and national park managers, and that good communication is essential.

 

“The [Park Service] would like to remove the Ôban’ language,” she says. “The next step [to allow forms of geocaching] is to get both the natural and cultural resources of national parks on the same page to have a better sense of what will happen if the ban language is removed. The more communication about a proposal and work that can be done to make the activity acceptable, the better. Talking with the park staff is absolutely key.”

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if this gets outlawed in sc, what happens to all the government people working on benchmarks and the new mapcorps asking for help from us, identifying landmarks and such since they don't have the staffng power. we all going to go to jail for helping the us gov. that would be funny, here in nc alot of the land surveyors I've seen not working on the road wear jeans and t-shirts.

 

I can see it now

"headline news" government employeed gets arrested after snooping in cemetary with strang hand held device, more at 6pm.

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Which to me means permission can be given.

Which goes to my point that the primary sponsor of this bill is saying, "see the NPS bans geocaches, so we should be able to ban them in certain places, too."

 

I'm not saying that we should be able to place caches anywhere we please, but AFAIK no government has banned geocaching. Up to this point, it's been the policies of the stewards to restrict or encourage where we can cache and rightly so.

 

Like I've said earlier, we've been waiting for an official policy from the SC State Parks, but funding is so low...

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