Jump to content

South Carolina Legislation Meeting


Followers 24

Recommended Posts

I read the log just now and it never does say WHERE the bathroom break was taken so there was just a general assumption it was somewhere disrespectful.

 

Also noticed the log owner is from the Midlands and is a cop.

Then he REALLY needs to write a letter complaining about being taken out of context.

Link to comment

Just e-mailed that person the following;Dear Geocacher,

 

As you maybe aware there is currently a bill, HS.3777 under discussion by the South Carolina legislation that would not allow Geocaching in cemeteries, archeological sites, and historical landmarks. One of the claims made by the sponsors of the bill is how Geocacher’s have damaged locations where caches have been hidden in cemeteries. A specific statement has been made that a Geocacher had been urinating on a grave. I believe that this statement was taken out of context in your log for in “A place to be lifted on the Island” cache. Where you state that you stopped to take a bathroom break, the sponsors of the bill, have implied that you urinated on a grave marker, instead of using an appropriate location. They may be using this statement out of context..

 

I would urge you to contact your state House and Senate legislator as soon as possible. The bill has been tabled for further discussion until Thursday, April 28. I would hope that your position with law enforcement would add the credibility that this matter needs.

 

Sincerely,

 

Norman Lazarus

Link to comment

Well, that oughta get his attention - the legislature talking about where he goes to the bathroom! :D:rolleyes:

 

On another topic, I am still listening to the live feed, and these folks are debating liquor laws - each speaker is well-versed, educated, prepared and properly rehearsed - these guys know their likker bidness!

 

Why have we not prepared them to this level to debate our cause?

Link to comment
Why have we not prepared them to this level to debate our cause?

Because the liquor business involves parties that will employ lobbiests who will make sure that the legislators are well educated and armed with information to support their position. That is why I think pushing this more with Garmin, Magellen, various large outdoor groups etc is important.

Link to comment

she didn't say "other specific location", but that was primarily since she was making this as vague as possible. She was acting very ho-hum about it like this was a dumb thing and noone would have a problem with it. Hopefully everyoine who said they had no idea what this was about will become very informed before they let her explain it to them.

Link to comment

Just a thought, but isn't the current governor of SC a huge bicyclist and a big outdoorsman in general? My mother (a SC resident) mentioned reading an article about him recently where he spoke of his love for the outdoors and long distance biking in detail. I would think a few letters fired off in his direction might be quite helpful to our cause here.

Edited by AtlantaGal
Link to comment

I received this e-mail from Rep. Mac Toole (one of the sponsors of the bill that I met with)...

 

David,

 

Thanks for Your involvement and providing me additional education about this subject. With this data, I will not be voting for this Bill. It was moved to the contested calendar today.

 

Mac Toole

 

>>> David Wilkie <wilkie647@alltel.net> 4/14/2005 5:20:49 PM >>>

I would like to thank you for meeting with me to discuss H.3777 and Geocaching last week. I understand that the bill has been discussed in committee at least twice, with quite allot of comments. I also see that Representative Bowers has removed his name as a sponsor of the bill.

 

I would like to see your support for this bill withdrawn as well. Thank you for your consideration this matter. If you have any questions regarding my position in this matter, please feel free to contact me....

Link to comment

Does anyone have a list of Representatives who have specifically said that they are opposing the bill? I would like to send an email this evening targeted to those folks. I can find it by looking through this thread, but I figured someone might be keeping track already.

Link to comment

There is a reason they call the house the lower body. The best thing at this point may be for SC folks to start working on their Senators. In general, the senate (the upper body) of a bicameral (sp) legislative system has a lot more common sense and tends to show more restraint. Most of the crap that goes on in the house would never fly in the senate.

 

Also as was mentioned earlier start working on the gov. If it gets that far it may be helpful to have him thinking veto before it even gets to his desk.

 

I don't know how much help GPSr companies would have here. I don't see them as big movers and shakers in the political world. I would not think they are dropping a lot of money in federal races let alone down ballot offices.

 

In my working with politicians I have found that they do respond to voters in their district. They know how few numbers, certainly in down ballot races, it really takes to move an election. They generally think that there is one person presenting their point of view. That person may be married so that makes another person. And that person may have a friend who they can talk to about who they should or should not vote for. People who agree with you may or may not go out and vote. People that disagree with you or who you have voted differently than they have shown to be their view will go to vote. It becomes a question of not how many friends you have but have many enemies. And lets be honest I don't know that I see anyone that would be a friend to vote for this bill.

Link to comment

I need a good explaination of geocaching with little technical jargon. Not just the technical aspects like placing a cache, trading, etc. But how most of react to it or whatever. I might have over looked a good one in one of these threads. If so, point it out to me.

 

Considering no one really knew what geocaching was about, I figure I'd hand each one of them a good explaination.

 

Thanks.

Link to comment
I don't know how much help GPSr companies would have here. I don't see them as big movers and shakers in the political world. I would not think they are dropping a lot of money in federal races let alone down ballot offices.

Don't count them out. They work with the govt on defense and other contracts and you know that's ALL political. Companies like Trimble and Garmin know EXACTLY what hands to shake when it comes to their profits. And it does come down to that. The manufacturers are catering specifically to geocachers with special features and software. They obviously know geocaching is selling their products, and laws banning geocaching is going to cut into their profits.

Link to comment
Don't count them out. They work with the govt on defense and other contracts and you know that's ALL political. Companies like Trimble and Garmin know EXACTLY what hands to shake when it comes to their profits. And it does come down to that. The manufacturers are catering specifically to geocachers with special features and software. They obviously know geocaching is selling their products, and laws banning geocaching is going to cut into their profits.

Oh no I did not mean to count them out. I did a quick look on donations and I did not turn up anything. It was quick so it is very possible I am missing something. You are correct (man it hurts to say that :rolleyes: ) if you are doing federal contracting you are well versed in knowing what butt to kiss.

 

I just worry if the SC assembly is too small of a blimp on their radar. Maybe maybe not. I don't know anything about SC political giving laws but they may not be set up to drop money in state races there.

 

Hey if somebody has an in with those types and they are willing to do something, then yea go for it. But for right now I think it is important to get the folks that actually vote for the reps in state to continue their work.

Link to comment

Any NRA members? Maybe the NRA would be interested in the bill .... hunters may not be able to legally use their GPS to return to their favorite hunting spot!

 

As far as simple explanations of geocaching .... type in geocaching in Google and then click on the News tab ... many recent articles from around the country.

Edited by Cole Hard-cachers
Link to comment
I need a good explaination of geocaching with little technical jargon. Not just the technical aspects like placing a cache, trading, etc. But how most of react to it or whatever. I might have over looked a good one in one of these threads. If so, point it out to me.

 

Considering no one really knew what geocaching was about, I figure I'd hand each one of them a good explaination.

 

Thanks.

How about the Geocacher-U brochure?

 

I would also suggest that some cachers go to the House tomorrow and shake hands with various reps, nicely introduce themselves, and politely ask that the bill be opposed. Offer to answer questions and/or give them a brochure etc. I have no idea about how it is in SC, but here in Nebraska the capitol rotunda is often filled with people (most lobbists) who talk to Representatives during breaks. People politely asking for oppostion and making themselves available for questions shows interest and concern about the bill from voters.

Link to comment

Here ya go - take any or all that you can use, or send it directly, just please get this info before your government so that the game may be debated in an educated and well-understood form:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Geocaching is a family-oriented outdoor game combining age-old map reading and navigational skills with modern technologies such as Global Positioning Satellite System receiver (GPSr) navigation.

 

Use of the US Department of Defense GPS system is made available at no charge to owners of a GPS receiver.

 

Geocachers, who come from all ages and all walks of life, are men, women and children with a love of the outdoors and an interest in education and technology.

 

As are most outdoorsmen, geocachers are overwhelmingly appreaciative of and sensitive to the environment. Conservation and protection is a recurring theme among geocachers.

 

Geocachers as a personal ethic and community practice collect trash as part of playing the game, a practice known as Cache In Trash Out (CITO), whereby geocachers hunting for a geocache or leaving the geocache area pick up and carry out trash found.

 

Geocachers as a community host numerous CITO Events across the nation, where we get together in groups to clean roadsides and parks, rivers and trails.

 

The game is played by one geocacher creating a geocache - a metal ammo box or a Tupperware jug, maybe even something small like a magnetic keyholder, and placing trade items and a log book in it. Trade items are trinkets, usually of little monetary value, such as McDonalds Happy Meal toys, Matchbox cars, small figurines from a dollar store and the like.

 

The geocacher then decides on a place thet he or she believes will be of value to the seekers - an overlook, a city park, a nice trail through the woods, etc.

 

Geocachers being overwhelmingly drawn from the more educated and affluent Americans, education is always of interest, so we like to choose places of historical interest or some otherwise educational spot to hide our geocache.

 

Sharing the location with others is for most of us perhaps more important than sharing the geocache itself.

 

Geocaching has been defined as "Hiking with a purpose" and that is apt.

 

Having found an interesting and approporiate location the hider will, by our own placement rules, endeavor to determine the owner or property manager and seek permission to place the hide.

 

Certain rules must be followed - geocaches may not be buried, may not be made of or contain hazardous things, may not damage or adversely affect the environment, may be no closer than .10 mile from any other geocache, and cannot be in a dangerous or off-limits place.

 

Having determined a good hiding place, the geocacher submits the location details, a description, any permissions information and a contents list to a volunteer reviewer, who reads the information and, provided that it appears to be a legal geocache, approves its placement and publishes the information on the internet on what is known as a Cache Page.

 

Geocachers can search the internet for geocaches hidden in their area of interest, and get the coordinates for the hidden geocache, and use their GPS to navigate themselves to that location. The GPS will genarally take you to within twenty feet of the geocache, after that you have to look!

 

Being as geocaches can't be buried, no shovel is carried nor digging done, it's just a matter of observing your environment and looking for somthing that appears out of place. Geocachers being a sensitive lot no dissassembling of walls or the like is done...the geocache may be cleverly hidden but will require no damage to the site to find.

 

Once the geocache is found the geocacher may trade a trinket for one in the geocache or may simply sign the log, thereby proving they have been there.

 

That's it. That's all their is to it. A more harmless and innocuous game would be hard to concieve, and a better quality of individual would be hard to attract.

 

We are a self-policing community, and geocachers that are sloppy, won't adhere to the rules or who damage property won't last long. Geocaches that are placed in illegal or dangerous places will soon be reported and removed.

 

Geocachers are primarily a community of friends who interact, and we take pride in our geocaching reputation individually and as a group.

 

As a property owner I invite geocaches to my lands, as I can't imagine better caretakers than this community.

Link to comment
Any NRA members?  Maybe the NRA would be interested in the bill .... hunters may not be able to legally use their GPS to return to their favorite hunting spot!

 

As far as simple explanations of geocaching .... type in geocaching in Google and then click on the News tab ... many recent articles from around the country.

Yes they will be able to use a GPSr while hunting.

They are not trying to stop hunters from hunting.

 

The NRA could just cause more polarization too as they usually do with politics.

I'd leave them out of it.

 

Kenneth

Edited by kennethpruett
Link to comment
Well, that oughta get his attention - the legislature talking about where he goes to the bathroom! :D:rolleyes:

 

On another topic, I am still listening to the live feed, and these folks are debating liquor laws - each speaker is well-versed, educated, prepared and properly rehearsed - these guys know their likker bidness!

 

Why have we not prepared them to this level to debate our cause?

Seems all they worry about is putting liquids in and letting liquids out. :D

 

Sorry...I thought a little humor might ease tensions.

 

Kenneth

Link to comment
Those of you who heard comments that you believe to be untrue, I suggest that you email your House Representatives tonight. Better yet, consider emailing all house reps.

Has anyone complied a list a misguided statements that were made today? Has anyone found all the things taken out of context and located the original source with the entire context. Some of us would like to email our representatives, but we need to know what was incorrectly stated.

Link to comment
Yes they will be able to use a GPSr while hunting.

They are not trying to stop hunters from hunting.

 

If an archeological site was located in an area previously identified by a hunter, and a hunter used a GPS to find this "specific location", would he not be in violation of the law? No, they are not trying to stop hunting, or fishing, but both of these activities may involve the use of a GPS to find a "specific location".

Link to comment
...Why have we not prepared them to this level to debate our cause?

I've been working on that for a year. It's been hard to bring it together. More so from a combination of how busy the person I'm trying to get to help than any other factor. More recently a family medial issue eclypsed our meeting to go over details.

 

Once I have them on board, then it's a matter of getting all the listing sites and experience local groups on board. However any one or two sites or groups is less important than retaining the expert. I'm about one step left of what you are talking about but still in the zone.

 

Send an email if you want more details.

Link to comment
I pretty confident (although not 100%) that I will be going to GW3 now. If so, it will leave SC as a hole in my states cached in map that will likely never get filled if the bill passes. Of course I would also send a copy of the map and and explanation of why it would stay white to the SC Senators.

That's pretty good. Red States vs. White States.

Link to comment

What is GeoCaching?

 

GeoCaching is a creative activity that involves hiding something, writing about the experience of hiding it, and creating a document called a ‘cache page’. This is the creation of web pages which are most often artistic creations created by perhaps the most advanced use of technology ever used for artistic expression. Geocaching is also a creative activity that involves finding things hidden by others and writing a log about the experiences you have during the search.

 

Geocaching involves getting outdoors and having fun. There are very few technologies that have created the opportunity for families to have fun and physical activity together. Video games, DVD players and High Definition Televisions have turned family time into a silent and often meaningless experience. Geocaching is an amazing and unique exception to this trend. GPS technology is the tool that enables families to share in a healthy and rewarding outdoor adventure. Even Boy Scouts now include Geocaching in their camping trips as a fun way to acquaint themselves to the experience of navigation.

 

A South Carolina State Representative has stated in House Judicial Committee Hearings and on the House Floor that Geocachers have vandalized graveyards in her district while Geocaching. Of all outdoor activities that have ever been conceived there is only one that involves signing and dating a logbook at the site of the activity and also logging the date and location of activity on a separate website. This activity is Geocaching. How this Representative could assert that people who log and date their presence in a certain place would commit criminal activity while at that location begs credibility. Would any reasonable person conclude that an entire group of people such as Geocachers could be so dumb as to break any laws and document the event again and again? To support these claims this Representative has had to resort to cobbling together many separate short phrases taken out of context from carefully selected cache logs to make them appear as complete logs of cache visits. These falsified examples have been presented as fact in both Committee Hearings and on the House Floor in an effort to untruthfully represent Geocaching activity and those who participate in it as unlawful and criminal. In addition, many sources used to contrive this false evidence have been proven to be quoted from caches located in states other than South Carolina though this Representative has presented them as proof of a problem occurring in South Carolina.

 

Seeking a Geocache only requires a GPS receiver and access to the Internet. This activity is truly democratic in nature since GPS receivers can be bought for less than $90 and Internet access is available at almost every public library in South Carolina. To seek a Geocache you must use math skills, problem solving skills, computer skills and develop skills in the new technology that is the GPS system. But you will be using and building these abilities not in a classroom, but in the process of having fun which is the best way to learn anything. This is such an obvious truth that my wife and I have volunteered to teach Geocaching in an educational program for the South Carolina Department of Juvenile Justice. Also, my wife and I have donated our time and knowledge to assist the both the Environmental and the Special Programs Divisions of the South Carolina State Military Department to enhance their GPS capacity through Geocaching.

 

Seeking a Geocache also involves getting outside and walking, sometimes walking very far. Geocaches are located in many out of the way locations throughout our state. These locations are often historically significant and are known only to the most interested historians. Millions of state dollars have recently been invested to promote visits to our state’s historical sites, including graveyards. But these locations will only be remembered if they are visited. One of the few proven activities to fulfill this purpose is Geocaching. Learning the lessons of history requires that we visit the places of history. Geocaches hidden in such locations are most often based on a theme about the historical significance of the location, and have educational information included in their cache page. And Geocaching provides the additional benefit to our state’s cultural heritage and wealth by providing dated written logs accessible to anyone on an Internet website. These logs are important today and will only increase in value to future historians because they detail what our citizens see and experience in their own words at hundreds of places throughout our entire state.

 

And finally there is the issue of Geocaches located in graveyards. As a parent who has lost a child in an tragic accident, I understand the sanctity of cemetaries and gravesites. These places are sacred memorials to our loved ones. In graveyards we can find the answer to the question of why our society seems so uncaring at times. When you view a family plot that is perhaps 100 years old, you may see the most powerful example of courage and faith that exists. Side by side, markers will read ‘Infant Son,’ ‘Infant Daughter,’ ‘Daughter, 2 years old.’ And then proof of hope that is impossible to fathom: a child or children who reached adulthood, had children of their own, and likely cared for their incredible parents at the ends of their lives. And the stones read ‘Beloved Wife,’ or ‘Our Sweet Angel.’ These expressions of love remain as a force in our world because we read them, and we say their names, and we marvel a century later at the beauty of lives lived with faith, hope and love in the face of so much sorrow. These are the things Geocachers are blessed to experience in graveyards. If the seeking of a respectfully hidden Geocache in a graveyard reveals these truths to the seeker then all of us, not just Geocachers, benefit.

 

TandS - Travis and Stephanie Cowan, Columbia SC

Edited by tands
Link to comment
Yes they will be able to use a GPSr while hunting.

They are not trying to stop hunters from hunting.

 

If an archeological site was located in an area previously identified by a hunter, and a hunter used a GPS to find this "specific location", would he not be in violation of the law? No, they are not trying to stop hunting, or fishing, but both of these activities may involve the use of a GPS to find a "specific location".

Uhh...hopefully the hunter would know that the site is now an archeological site now...especially if it was one of his "favorite" sites. I think they would have found another "favorite" site.

 

I just don't see how the clause "specific location" keeps getting taken out of context of the sentence to stop geocaching and gets applied to anywhere you use a GPSr.

 

Kenneth

Link to comment
Uhh...hopefully the hunter would know that the site is now an archeological site now...especially if it was one of his "favorite" sites.  I think they would have found another "favorite" site.

How would the hunter know? Archeological sites are often kept secret by archeologists who do not want "pot hunters" on the site. There are not any signs designating an "archeological site" at most of them and they deliberately are not listed in publically accessible documents or websites.

 

I've run across places in the middle of the forest in South Carolina that were very isolated, a mile or more from a road and hundreds of yards from any trail that were clearly of archeological significance. And hunting is allowed in these forests.

jon

Link to comment
Yes they will be able to use a GPSr while hunting.

They are not trying to stop hunters from hunting.

 

If an archeological site was located in an area previously identified by a hunter, and a hunter used a GPS to find this "specific location", would he not be in violation of the law? No, they are not trying to stop hunting, or fishing, but both of these activities may involve the use of a GPS to find a "specific location".

Uhh...hopefully the hunter would know that the site is now an archeological site now...especially if it was one of his "favorite" sites. I think they would have found another "favorite" site.

 

I just don't see how the clause "specific location" keeps getting taken out of context of the sentence to stop geocaching and gets applied to anywhere you use a GPSr.

 

Kenneth

It is overbroad. As written it prevents using a GPS to find a location. Onstar uses GPS to find a location, so do some 911 agencies, government officials, law enforcement, tourists, military, and yes hunters and fisherman. Keep in mind that the bill also includes historical and archeological areas, which in SC encompass large areas, including entire towns or other areas at times etc.

 

Do the drafters intend to stop GPS use for things other than caching? I doubt it. But it is written so that is can. Does it mean people will get arrested for non-caching with a GPS? I hope not, but who knows? Regardless it is a problem with the bill and a problem that can give a good reason to keep it from being passed.

Link to comment
How would the hunter know? Archeological sites are often kept secret by archeologists who do not want "pot hunters" on the site.

Then it would not count. I am sure "archaeological sites" must refer to officially registered, posted and staked archaeological sites. How else could they possibly enforce it?

Link to comment

The bill is about limiting free speech. Ms. C is clearly offended at what people have written in the cache pages and the logs. She wishes to stop such speech about such things. So she wants to ban an activity that has nothing illegal about it so that folks wont write things describing the activity that she and/or her constituency doesn't like. That's about it IMHO. So, 1st Amendment will probably do the job. Quacks like a duck...

 

- T of TandS

Link to comment
How would the hunter know?  Archeological sites are often kept secret by archeologists who do not want "pot hunters" on the site.

Then it would not count. I am sure "archaeological sites" must refer to officially registered, posted and staked archaeological sites. How else could they possibly enforce it?

Most archeological sites in SC are unknown to the General Public. The are not "staked" and not advertised.

Link to comment
How would the hunter know?  Archeological sites are often kept secret by archeologists who do not want "pot hunters" on the site.

Then it would not count. I am sure "archaeological sites" must refer to officially registered, posted and staked archaeological sites. How else could they possibly enforce it?

Most archeological sites in SC are unknown to the General Public. The are not "staked" and not advertised.

They were being facetious. If the law passes the only way to know you are in non-compliance is for someone to tell you that a certain location is a cultural site. Which makes the sites known, which they can’t do... It's a catch 22.

Link to comment
Uhh...hopefully the hunter would know that the site is now an archeological site now...especially if it was one of his "favorite" sites.  I think they would have found another "favorite" site.

How would the hunter know? Archeological sites are often kept secret by archeologists who do not want "pot hunters" on the site. There are not any signs designating an "archeological site" at most of them and they deliberately are not listed in publically accessible documents or websites.

 

I've run across places in the middle of the forest in South Carolina that were very isolated, a mile or more from a road and hundreds of yards from any trail that were clearly of archeological significance. And hunting is allowed in these forests.

jon

I believe someone has already replied, but I'll echo. If they don't post it or make it known and hunting is allowed in that area, how can they enforce it?

 

Kenneth

Link to comment

I sent an e-mail to every member of the house and I am not a resident of SC. I hope everyone who is posting here can take a few minutes to send one even to five. Its one thing to discuss it here, its another to show that we are just an isolated group of people. Every e-mail no matter what state you live in will help Geocachers in SC.

Link to comment

I just don't see how the clause "specific location" keeps getting taken out of context of the sentence to stop geocaching and gets applied to anywhere you use a GPSr.

 

Kenneth

It is overbroad. As written it prevents using a GPS to find a location. Onstar uses GPS to find a location, so do some 911 agencies, government officials, law enforcement, tourists, military, and yes hunters and fisherman. Keep in mind that the bill also includes historical and archeological areas, which in SC encompass large areas, including entire towns or other areas at times etc.

 

Do the drafters intend to stop GPS use for things other than caching? I doubt it. But it is written so that is can. Does it mean people will get arrested for non-caching with a GPS? I hope not, but who knows? Regardless it is a problem with the bill and a problem that can give a good reason to keep it from being passed.

 

Well...I keep hearing this reply but I just ain't seeing it.

 

Stating that 911 agencies, law enforcement, government officials, and military would be breaking the law just makes it appear you are trying to divert attention from geocaching and that you appear to be an extremist.

 

They will not enforce such items. Just drop it and discuss what they are really trying to stop...geocaching in those places.

 

Kenneth

Link to comment

Being in environmental law enforcement let me just say ignorance is no excuse for violating the law. If you violate you are subject to appropriate action.

 

Edit to finish thought...

 

The wording of the bill is easily interpreted as meaning: use your GPSr to find any specific location and you are geocaching and consequently in violation.

Edited by The Commissar!
Link to comment

I just don't see how the clause "specific location" keeps getting taken out of context of the sentence to stop geocaching and gets applied to anywhere you use a GPSr.

 

Kenneth

It is overbroad. As written it prevents using a GPS to find a location. Onstar uses GPS to find a location, so do some 911 agencies, government officials, law enforcement, tourists, military, and yes hunters and fisherman. Keep in mind that the bill also includes historical and archeological areas, which in SC encompass large areas, including entire towns or other areas at times etc.

 

Do the drafters intend to stop GPS use for things other than caching? I doubt it. But it is written so that is can. Does it mean people will get arrested for non-caching with a GPS? I hope not, but who knows? Regardless it is a problem with the bill and a problem that can give a good reason to keep it from being passed.

 

Well...I keep hearing this reply but I just ain't seeing it.

 

Stating that 911 agencies, law enforcement, government officials, and military would be breaking the law just makes it appear you are trying to divert attention from geocaching and that you appear to be an extremist.

 

They will not enforce such items. Just drop it and discuss what they are really trying to stop...geocaching in those places.

 

Kenneth

I agree we need to stay on point about Geocaching, the most recent version of the bill, Click here, seems to have cleared up the vauge language in the past and made it specific to Geocaching. If you contact the members of the house you need to stay focused on Geocaching. Becuase that is theonlything they are discussing.

Link to comment
Being in environmental law enforcement let me just say ignorance is no excuse for violating the law. If you violate you are subject to appropriate action.

Do you know the the answer to these questions?

 

Can the location be revealed to the person being charged with breaking the law proposed by this house bill? Can the location be revealed to the Jury should there be a trial? Can the defendant do a shovel probe survey to more accuratly define the boundary of a cultural site? If someone asks for inforamation that would allow them to comply with the law does it need to be provided? If the information is withheld is ignorance still no excuse?

Link to comment
Being in environmental law enforcement let me just say ignorance is no excuse for violating the law. If you violate you are subject to appropriate action.

 

Edit to finish thought...

 

The wording of the bill is easily interpreted as meaning: use your GPSr to find any specific location and you are geocaching and consequently in violation.

The word 'and' means alot to me...maybe not others.

 

Kenneth

Link to comment
I do not see any change to the wording from its introduction to the full house except that they moved the full committee amendments into the body of the bill to replace the amended sections that were still in there this afternoon

I agree with The Commissar.

Looks like the "specific location" clause is still there to me.

 

And it does say 'or', not 'and'.

Still, to ignore the entire first part of the sentence just doesn't work for me.

 

They are after geocaching, not finding a location.

 

Kenneth

Link to comment

I just don't see how the clause "specific location" keeps getting taken out of context of the sentence to stop geocaching and gets applied to anywhere you use a GPSr.

 

Kenneth

It is overbroad. As written it prevents using a GPS to find a location. Onstar uses GPS to find a location, so do some 911 agencies, government officials, law enforcement, tourists, military, and yes hunters and fisherman. Keep in mind that the bill also includes historical and archeological areas, which in SC encompass large areas, including entire towns or other areas at times etc.

 

Do the drafters intend to stop GPS use for things other than caching? I doubt it. But it is written so that is can. Does it mean people will get arrested for non-caching with a GPS? I hope not, but who knows? Regardless it is a problem with the bill and a problem that can give a good reason to keep it from being passed.

 

Well...I keep hearing this reply but I just ain't seeing it.

 

Stating that 911 agencies, law enforcement, government officials, and military would be breaking the law just makes it appear you are trying to divert attention from geocaching and that you appear to be an extremist.

 

They will not enforce such items. Just drop it and discuss what they are really trying to stop...geocaching in those places.

 

Kenneth

I agree we need to stay on point about Geocaching, the most recent version of the bill, Click here, seems to have cleared up the vauge language in the past and made it specific to Geocaching. If you contact the members of the house you need to stay focused on Geocaching. Becuase that is theonlything they are discussing.

'Geocaching' means the activity of participants using a global positioning system (GPS) device to locate the geocache or another specific location.

 

Yes it's about geocaching, but it defines it as using a GPS to locate a specific location. That's broad. It covers all use of a GPS to locate anything. If they dropped the "or another specific location' then it would be specific to locating a geocache as defined in the section above.

Edited by Renegade Knight
Link to comment

From another discussion on this forum site:

 

---------------------------------------------------

Law & Order: Criminal Intent

NBC May 08 09:00pm EST

Series/Drama, 60 Mins.

 

"The Unblinking Eye"

A young actor is wounded and his fiancee killed, leading detectives to look into a high-tech treasure-hunting game called geocaching.

---------------------------------------------------

 

Are we just getting a lot of bad publicity, or WHAT?!

 

:lol:

Link to comment

you are very correct and that "and" was placed there by me by mistake.

 

(2) 'Geocaching' means the activity of participants using a global positioning system (GPS) device to locate the geocache or another specific location.

 

you are geocaching ifyou use a GPSr to find a geocache OR another specific location (in a prohibited area). Certainly unintended but that IS what it says. That means you can be charged for navigating to Hymens for a nice seafood meal if you use your GPSr once inside the historic area...

Link to comment

And if geocaching is illegal but is the same thing as finding a location which is legal, but with a log, then:

 

1. It's a bill to limit freedom of expression.

2. It's a custom law written not for the common good but a single group's agenda.

 

Also, if we as Geocachers have a 'geocaching lifestyle' then it is our creed. And we are being singled out because of our creed while others can do the exact same thing, find a location with a GPS, and not be prosecuted. Big can of worms since my creed is that of the geocacher.

 

- T of TandS

Link to comment
you are very correct and that "and" was placed there by me by mistake.

 

(2)    'Geocaching' means the activity of participants using a global positioning system (GPS) device to locate the geocache or another specific location.

 

you are geocaching ifyou use a GPSr to find a geocache OR another specific location (in a prohibited area).  Certainly unintended but that IS what it says.  That means you can be charged for navigating to Hymens for a nice seafood meal if you use your GPSr once inside the historic area...

Ok...so maybe it has to do with your interpretation of 'another' in the sentence.

 

I looked up 'another' in Merriam Webster and depending on which one you pick, it changes the use in their phrase:

 

definition of ANOTHER

 

Function: adjective

1 : different or distinct from the one first considered <the same scene viewed from another angle>

2 : some other <do it another time>

3 : being one more in addition to one or more of the same kind <have another piece of pie> 

 

So if they mean #1...I will step back and let y'all continue discussing banning of general use of GPSr.

But if they mean #3...I stand by my argument that they mean a geocache location

 

Any way to find out which way they are using it? or is that everyone's argument? that they can choose when they arrest you?

 

Kenneth

Edited by kennethpruett
Link to comment

It still contains the language and is overbroad. Be sure that you are reading the current version. Yes, the focus is on caching, but hey! I like to obey the law and would like to use a GPS in SC to seek historical areas even if they are not caches and even if it might not be enforced (although I won't be visiting SC if this thing is passed). Call me picky, I guess that is an occupational trait, but I dislike overbroad drafting, especially when it would not just limit GPS use, but when the effect would be to ban virtual caches and such too.

Link to comment
It still contains the language and is overbroad. Be sure that you are reading the current version. Yes, the focus is on caching, but hey! I like to obey the law and would like to use a GPS in SC to seek historical areas even if they are not caches and even if it might not be enforced (although I won't be visiting SC if this thing is passed). Call me picky, I guess that is an occupational trait, but I dislike overbroad drafting, especially when it would not just limit GPS use, but when the effect would be to ban virtual caches and such too.

So was that a vote for #1?

 

Kenneth

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Followers 24
×
×
  • Create New...