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South Carolina Legislation Meeting


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off topic, if anyone is near a TV can someone see what is going on in DC...breaking news is that US fighters are over the White House and the whole area is being evacuated (i know this is way off topic...sorry)

 

--ok NM it is over...there was a small plane about 3 miles out from the capitol--

Edited by geoholic28
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Please keep this thread on-topic to the geocaching related legislation in South Carolina. Status reports on the proceedings are fine... it's OK to mention they're discussing the gambling bill, or the state budget being discussed now. But if you want to discuss the merits of gambling legislation, or breaking news stories, please take that to the off-topic forum. Thanks.

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... Anyone in a graveyard that is there doing something that disrupts the graves at the worst be arrested and at best they can be told to move on. ...

You really need to think about this blanket statement. Digging holes all over to fix sprinkler heads is not respectful nor is it disrespectful. It just is and it's a part of daily life.

 

Last year annoyed that after a week or so after memorial day our flowers would be removed we brought shovels and planted flowers by the graves of our family. This year we will find out if they were removed, or of the grounds crew did or didn't mow them. If they mowed them that's disrespectful. Shovels in a graveyard. I'm not ashamed. Nor am I ashamed that my kids rann all over in the open space and enjoyed reading all the names and wondering if they were related. No I don't care if they stopped at your relatives name and wondered even if you do. Tough. Graveyards are a traditional cultural place for all of us. Not just the few family members who bother to remember.

 

As for as a call of nature. People cope with this all the time. I doubt a single person contemplating this bill hasn't been caught with no handy bathroom and no time to find one. What do people do? They find a handy tree or bush and be as discreet as possible. Then when you survive the experience you laugh it off, but you also hope there is no next time, but you know there will be. In the wilderness this is expected. In town lets hope there is a public restroom. There isn't always one that is public. In remote areas with no nearby bathroom it's not a shocker to think that people may not find one in time, nor do they have a desire to wet their pants. You do your best and that's good enough. If someone were to desecrate a grave then arrest them and sentance them to 2000 hours of community service painting over grafitti and picking up after others who like them, did not choose the path of discression.

 

There is no need to pass a new law that adds yet another way to say "don't do that " to the laws that already say that. I find it completely stupid to say "You are guilty of vandalizm, desecration, grave robbing, harming an archaeologial site because oh and while we are at it we are going to arrest you and your 3 year old daughter for the sinful activity of "Geocaching" *Gasp*.

 

By law 3 year olds who are not vandals etc. (it takes some experneice in the world to become a moron) will now be guilty of breaking this law.

 

Punish the guilty with the tools you have. Not the innocent.

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But H3777 does in fact single out such individuals and it does so whether they're using the GPS to search for a film can hidden in a bush; to locate the grave of a soldier in the Revolutionary War to get his birthdate for use in finding a multi-cache or logging a virtual; or if they're looking for the gravesite of an ancestor to pay their respects after finding the lat/long coordinates on a geneology website. All of these actions would become illegal and punishable under the provisions of H3777.

To clarify my side of things a little, I am not for outlawing using GPS in a graveyard, there are legit uses of it that don't involve caching. If I could pass my own bill, it would make hiding (and hopefully that would stop people from seeking, kill it at the source) illegal. I agree that the present bill goes way to far to the point of stupidity, but the basic idea (stop caching in graveyards, etc) isn't all that bad either. They just need to write a bill that isn't so extreme.

 

You really need to think about this blanket statement. Digging holes all over to fix sprinkler heads is not respectful nor is it disrespectful. It just is and it's a part of daily life.

I apologize if I did not speak clearer. There is a differance between "maintenance" and playing a game. Disrupting graves for a game is not worth it, keeping the sprinklers working is. Same with the kids looking at the differant stones. I've stopped at others graves and wondered who they are, what they did, etc. Again, there is a differance between doing that and playing a game.

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To clarify my side of things a little, I am not for outlawing using GPS in a graveyard, there are legit uses of it that don't involve caching. If I could pass my own bill, it would make hiding (and hopefully that would stop people from seeking, kill it at the source) illegal

 

Why? Would you criminalize all the other common uses of cemeteries (as mentioned in my post on the previous page), or would you single out geocaching?

Edited by briansnat
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To clarify my side of things a little, I am not for outlawing using GPS in a graveyard, there are legit uses of it that don't involve caching. If I could pass my own bill...<snip>

The point is you are not passing your own bill. Ceips is doing that for you whether you like it or not. There are good use for a GPS in the area and one of them is geocaching. Once again for you, this bill WILL outlaw GPS use in a graveyard.

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I assume someone is capturing the feed and will post a link later of just the 3777 portion like was done last time???? I found that very helpful last time.

Just remembered, I have somewhere to be at 2:00. Doggone it.

 

If someone could record this and post it somewhere, I'd appreciate it. Or maybe I can figure out what happened from reading all of the posts here when I come back.

 

(Of course, if they're finishing the budget stuff first thing, I may be done before they get too involved in H.3777 ...)

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(twjolson @ May 11 2005, 12:34 PM)

Disrupting graves for a game is not worth it

 

There's nothing in our sport that allows disrupting graves. Period. I sincerely doubt that any cache that required you to "disrupt a grave" would ever get approved. The caches that I've visited in graveyards were very respectful and really worth the visit. Often they were to help memorialize the work of some important individual.

 

Thus, your basic concept there is false. We're not disrupting graves, unless you count walking around them and talking about them disrupting. And if that's the case, then you need to review the idea of picnics, small (bored) children playing "tag" etc. in cemeteries.

 

In fact, the cachers at remote graveyards are more likely to be respectful and report improper behavior than most other visitors.

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To clarify my side of things a little, I am not for outlawing using GPS in a graveyard, there are legit uses of it that don't involve caching. If I could pass my own bill, it would make hiding (and hopefully that would stop people from seeking, kill it at the source) illegal. I agree that the present bill goes way to far to the point of stupidity, but the basic idea (stop caching in graveyards, etc) isn't all that bad either. They just need to write a bill that isn't so extreme.

Since you feel so strongly about this subject then perhaps you should be talking to the Geocaching and Groundspeak powers that be, petitioning for a rules change to make cemetery caches against our rules. You could start a new thread and ask for people's support. See how many feel the way you do.

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Its nice how they can put everyone into a group and say this group needs to be banned. Now tell me this. Will banning Caches in cemeteries stop this kind of behavior? Simple answer NO. I as a kid was in cemeteries with my friends, we ues to drink and smoke at night 2-3 am in the morning. The only difference is that We didnt log or take pictures (and release them publicly). The actions were still done though. So should government step in and prohibit anyone from entering? No.

 

It is up to us to be responsible for our behavior and to act accordingly. Since I matured from my younger years I look back and think how stupid and inconsiderate I was of those resting places. I now visit cemeteries with a respect and solomn attitude.

 

But to classify this as being a geocaching thing is wrong, and a bad way to fix a problem that isnt just geocaching.

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lets see - he said the bill was too broadly worded so he proposes removing the word geocaching and replacing it with recreational activity?????

Well, that *really* is their concern isn't it? I mean obviously if they are against geocaching in cemeteries, which is pretty tame as activities go, and there are far worse things that people do there, it is only appropriate for them to be against those activities too.

 

So no frisbee, no picnics, no casual walking or dog walking, basically no visiting a cemetery unless you have "business" there.

 

With the historical sites, I don't see how that is going to work. Tourism *is* a recreational activity.

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The "frisbee rule" has been invoked! Often cited as a test on whether permission is needed ("do you need to ask permission to play frisbee in that park?"), it's just been mentioned in debate as something that can't be done in a South Carolina cemetery.

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