+Deliveryguy428 Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Ok, everyone, the House is off until Tuesday at 12 Enjoy the weekend Link to comment
magellan315 Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 This LINK will allow you to watch the live video feed on line. Scroll down and you'll see the link for windows media player. Link to comment
+Mad Cat Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 aND WE WERE SO CLOSE, SHEESH I MIGHT BE GLAD THEY WON'T EVER HEAR THIS BILL, BUT I'M GETTING TIRED OF WATCHING THE HOUSE EVERYDAY Link to comment
magellan315 Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Actually Mad Cat this has been an educational experience I've never seen how a state legsilative process works. Link to comment
ju66l3r Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Unless they plan on going to midnight today, I don't see this getting addressed until...um....Tuesday. "I am so smart! S-M-R-T! I mean, S-M-A-R-T!" --Homer Simpson Link to comment
+thumperness Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Does anyone know what channel you can watch this on if you have Directv ? Link to comment
+Crazy Aaron Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 There is a reason that this bill is continuously at the end of the agenda. If it was very important to the party leaders, it would be at the top of the agenda. I know you all enjoy watching the video and are taking lots of time to stay connected to this debate. These continual delays say much about the bill's chances. Don't get frustrated and DON'T ask for it to be moved up! Patience is a virtue. Link to comment
+Prairie Dog Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Does anyone know what channel you can watch this on if you have Directv ? The Legislative session is broadcast live on the South Carolina Channel. This channel is being carried by Time Warner Cable in South Carolina. You can only see it if you subscribe to the digital cable package. Direct TV or Dish network will not receive this broadcast. The streaming video seems to be working pretty well and that's how many people are watching. Link to comment
+Lil Devil Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 I've never seen how a state legsilative process works. Actually it appears to me that it doesn't work Link to comment
peter Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Actually it appears to me that it doesn't work The process is deliberately designed to make it difficult for legislation to be enacted. That's usually a good feature - including in the case of this bill. Link to comment
Paulcet Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 (edited) Baruba Juba, I'll second your sentiment. In reading this over, I can't understand why the geocachers at the first meeting looked at these rather tame pictures and agreed that they were appalling and "indefensible". That point should never have been conceded. When I read that article my response was: Is that IT? This is the WORST thing they could find? <snip> You have to remember that from the very beginning the sponsor of this bill painted the picture in the worst possible way. And seems to have presented everthing out of context. The geocachers at the first meeting did not expect lies and spin, but instead expected a rational debate. So if their mind-set was such, they would certainly concede that the picture painted by Cieps was ugly and appologized for any wrong-doing and promised to get to the bottom of the issue. TinSparrow and the others there didn't have the luxury of seeing the bill sponsors' "evidence" before the meeting. Therefore, they didn't have their counterpoint at hand. So now that we see the whole story, we can look back with 20/20 vision to see that the better course of action might have been to confront each point with facts. EDIT: paragraph 2 Edited May 5, 2005 by Paulcet Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Baruba Juba, I'll second your sentiment. In reading this over, I can't understand why the geocachers at the first meeting looked at these rather tame pictures and agreed that they were appalling and "indefensible". That point should never have been conceded. When I read that article my response was: Is that IT? This is the WORST thing they could find? <snip> ... ...So now that we see the whole story, we can look back with 20/20 vision to see that the better course of action might have been to confront each point with facts. EDIT: paragraph 2 Also the lessons learned can be used to prepair others so next time they are confronted with this type of situation they are ready. Link to comment
+StarBrand Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Might be helpful for a few folks to get a good example of how the "spin" the story game works. Click this link for a picture of hard working Americans making a living off the land. Now click this link to see a barbaric practice that has gone on too long and needs to stop. Participants often scar the animal before cutting off the testicles which are fried and eaten later. "Spin" Link to comment
+tabulator32 Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 I am not in support of the bill on which they are voting and I believe existing laws are sufficient to protect the cemetaries (they may need to be ENFORCED a bit more to protect them from the real problematic people who would urinate on and destroy grave markers) but there is no need to try to "protect" them from geocachers. I hope you understand that there is no evidence of Geocachers doing any of these actions. Rather these claims have been made the bills sponsors they have yet to provide any valid evidence other than out of context comments from logs. I will say it again, this law will also include areas designated as historic; parts of or entire districts, towns, cities, and counties. Cemetaries may be the emotional hot button, but this bill is not exclusive to cemetaries. Hi, Magellan. In response to your comment about realizing geocachers are not the ones desecrating the grave sites (an other historical markers), I was careful to make a distinction between the the desecrators and the geocachers. I definitely believe they are two entirely different sets of people and I thought I had made that clear in my original message. I apologize for any confusion. Concerning your comment about the bill itself, I did state it was ludicrous and I meant it due to its poor wording and, no matter how well-intended, it doesn't seem to serve a true purpose if passed as it was currently designed. I, ALSO, will say it again. The existing laws are sufficient to convey the essence of what these law makers are seemingly wanting to accomplish. The only ADDITIONAL things this bill appears to try to accomplish is to tarnish the good name of Geocaching and make it a bit harder to navigate through historic districts and areas. Just for the record, I grew up and spent over twenty years of my life in and around Charleston, South Carolina and I've used a GPS for everything from camping to finding my car when I go to a big concert or event down in the HISTORIC district. I'd hate to be ticketed or even (possibly?) arrested for trying to find my tent or my car. Link to comment
magellan315 Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Tabulator, thanks clarifying. Some of your phrasing was a little awkward, but it makes sense now. Link to comment
+tabulator32 Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Tabulator, thanks clarifying. Some of your phrasing was a little awkward, but it makes sense now. Yeah, I know. I'M a little awkward so it made perfect sense to me. Have a great weekend! Link to comment
+cmhwolf Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Has anyone been able to get their representative to go caching with them, yet? What came of that? Fight the good fight cachers. Link to comment
+Sissy-n-CR Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 I invited mine. She said the only free time she had was yesterday, and that she would call me. It rained all day here yesterday. I did however take the director of parks and rec. in Summerville. Belatedly showed him the ones I have in his park. He was real friendly. He said he just bought a GPS and this would give him a good way to practice using it. Sissy Link to comment
ju66l3r Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Sissy, you should ask him to draft a letter complementing the sport as a useful addition to his park and see if he'd even go as far as to recommend it for the historical districts, etc. Then send that to every member of the State House. Link to comment
+The Old Fogies Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 They now have a Treasure Hunt started in Charleston that you have to pay for your clues. Then travel all over the city to be the first to answer the clues and get $10,000. Would this not be worst than a few Geocachers walking around looking for a clue? Link to comment
Paulcet Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 My letter to the Department of Parks, Recreation and Tourism: To Whom It May Concern: I am writing to express my opinion about SC House Bill 3777. But first, a definition. The definition of Geocaching from www.geocaching.com: “Geocaching is an entertaining adventure game for GPS users. Participating in a cache hunt is a good way to take advantage of the wonderful features and capability of a GPS unit. The basic idea is to have individuals and organizations set up caches all over the world and share the locations of these caches on the internet. GPS users can then use the location coordinates to find the caches. Once found, a cache may provide the visitor with a wide variety of rewards. All the visitor is asked to do is if they get something they should try to leave something for the cache.” The original intent of H.3777 was to eliminate Geocaching (as defined above) in cemeteries, archeological sites and historical properties. Apparently the bill was brought forth by Representative Ceips due to some concerns of her constituents regarding a Geocache in or near a cemetery. Rather than pursuing the avenues of trespassing laws and direct communication with the Geocaching community, Ms. Ceips has introduced legislation seeking to criminalize the activity of Geocaching in many other locations as well. The bill would damage tourism in the state of South Carolina if it were to pass the state legislature and the governor’s desk. This bill, as it is currently written, defines any activity wherein a GPS receiver is used to find a location as “Geocaching”. Further, it seeks to make Geocaching a misdemeanor if it is done in a cemetery, archeological site, or historical property. As you know, much of South Carolina is considered historical property as listed in the National Register of Historic Places. This bill is too broadly defined, and would make it illegal for anyone to use a GPS receiver in those areas to locate any place for any reason. As one who has traveled to South Carolina on several occasions, and has used a GPS receiver to navigate to specific places while in the state, I worry that H.3777 would make the activities of my family and myself a crime. Tourists, whether from within the state or without, will use GPS navigation in increasing numbers for the next several years. Should GPS navigation be outlawed in the historical districts of Charleston and Columbia, for instance? To the extent that you advise legislators on these matters, I ask that you recommend H.3777 not be passed. Thank you for your consideration. Link to comment
+TheAlabamaRambler Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Read the logs on my cemetary cache - GCMB22 Everyone, including the landowner, who watches geocachers search and sometimes comes out to meet them, has had fun, learned something, seen a place they never would have discovered otherwise, all while doing no damage whatsoever! Link to comment
+TheAlabamaRambler Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Magellan315 wrote Actually Mad Cat this has been an educational experience I've never seen how a state legsilative process works. There's an old saying that one should never watch sausage or law being made! Link to comment
+Oceansiders Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 (edited) Magellan315 wroteActually Mad Cat this has been an educational experience I've never seen how a state legsilative process works. There's an old saying that one should never watch sausage or law being made! It is a fascinating, complicated process. I've served in local government for just under 6 years. Granted I'm not at a State level. (rather Provincial since I'm in Canada.) You folks are in a tough fight. There is much at stake and this decision could set a trend that just might roll out right across your Country. From reading the description in the initial post, it does sound like you have a serious PR problem on your hands. Even if the legislators have some empathy toward your plight, they will likely swing in a direction that they feel serves and protects the greatest number of the folks they represent. Issues that relate to cemeteries, including potential desecration, even if unjustly thrust upon Geocachers, will instantly invoke a defensive posture among those who must decide this. I suspect this bill will pass. If I were you folks, I would argue that the legislation be limited to only include cemeteries. That is where most of the emotion around this topic will be centered. Granted, it would end up being a partial defeat, but sometimes you have to move to minimize the loss. You can all easily live with cache free cemeteries. Certainly in comparison to the apparent broad scope of this bill in terms of its restrictions on the sport. Edited May 8, 2005 by PV Councillor Link to comment
CoyoteRed Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 An admendment to include only cemeteries was tabled. So that was already attempted. Besides, even if it was only the cemeteries, it would still touch a great number of other folks besides geocachers and letterboxers. Link to comment
ju66l3r Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 My family (who does not geocache aside from my dad and I) uses coordinates from my GPSr to mark the location of our relatives' gravesites/markers in cemetaries. (Un)Fortunately, we do not have family in SC cemetaries, but we do have coordinates within cemetaries in NY, MD, and NC. Not only does it help when you don't get to visit frequently enough to remember where to go, but it's a very useful way to inform other family members where their relatives are buried so they can also visit their loved ones. Even if only cemetaries were considered, given the current language of the rest of this bill, then it would still be too restrictive and damning of things well beyond the world of geocaching. In a very broad sense, Rep. Ceips needs to learn that you fight injustice in courts (also see: H3818 in Session 115 where she tried to legislate a free concert from the Dixie Chicks as reparation for what she perceived as a slight from them against the military as opposed to having a court decide on punishment). In this specific case of 3777 concerning geocaching, it would be up to a court to punish individuals found trespassing and/or defiling a burial ground. Link to comment
+Deliveryguy428 Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Tuesday May 10, we are on pg 9 out of 11 Link to comment
+Swamp Thing Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 (edited) This was posted to Cruise the Campus: I wrote a letter to the governor, about 3777. I did get a response back from one of his staff. We talked about the bill and geocaching for about an hour. He assured me that the governor will be well informed if it gets to him and if he has to make up his mind on signing it or not. His suggest was for everyone to write letters not only to the governor, but to there reprensentaives as well. Larry&Lynn Good advice, write away! Mailing Address: Governor Mark Sanford Office of the Governor P.O. Box 12267 Columbia, SC 29211 Fax: 803-734-5167 Edited May 9, 2005 by Swamp Thing Link to comment
+briansnat Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 (edited) This was posted to Cruise the Campus: I wrote a letter to the governor, about 3777. I did get a response back from one of his staff. We talked about the bill and geocaching for about an hour. He assured me that the governor will be well informed if it gets to him and if he has to make up his mind on signing it or not. His suggest was for everyone to write letters not only to the governor, but to there reprensentaives as well. Larry&Lynn Good advice, write away! Mailing Address: Governor Mark Sanford Office of the Governor P.O. Box 12267 Columbia, SC 29211 Fax: 803-734-5167 It may be premature to do that. If it gets through the House, then I'd say go for it. Edited May 9, 2005 by briansnat Link to comment
+pghlooking Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 This was posted to Cruise the Campus: I wrote a letter to the governor, about 3777. I did get a response back from one of his staff. We talked about the bill and geocaching for about an hour. He assured me that the governor will be well informed if it gets to him and if he has to make up his mind on signing it or not. His suggest was for everyone to write letters not only to the governor, but to there reprensentaives as well. Larry&Lynn Good advice, write away! Mailing Address: Governor Mark Sanford Office of the Governor P.O. Box 12267 Columbia, SC 29211 Fax: 803-734-5167 It may be premature to do that. If it gets through the House, then I'd say go for it. Maybe not though. If he is as avid an outdoorsman from what i have read, he may not support this at all and his opinion on that may lead to changing a few minds thats are on the fence about it. Also might make a few more actually find out what they are trying to outlaw and vote on BEFORE voting on it. Can't hurt to get the Gov on our side at any point, only can help. I think we need to make sure that he will be siding with us though. Could work against us if he was a Ceips fan. (I still can't understand how you can vote to outlaw something that you do not understand at all.) Link to comment
RandLD Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 (edited) Do you think a Letter to the Editor (something that would get published in the "Opinions" section) of The State newspaper would be beneficial? I thought about writing one but wasn't sure what sort of impact it would have (if it even got published in time / at all.) Any thoughts? Edited May 9, 2005 by RandLD Link to comment
+hellifiknow Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Does anyone have a quick update of this legislation? I scanned the last few pages of posts but don't see anything new. We have a trip to Hilton Head planned for next month and I want to make sure we don't come home with large fines (or can't come home because we're stuck in jail! ) Any help would be appreciated! Thanks! -hellifiknow Link to comment
+The Commissar! Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 just come on...there will be no new law by then! Link to comment
ju66l3r Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Hellifiknow, the current status: The bill has been introduced, amended, and is up for debate prior to vote for passage in the House. It still would need to pass through the Senate and be signed by the Governor before it would take effect. Link to comment
+hellifiknow Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Hellifiknow, the current status: The bill has been introduced, amended, and is up for debate prior to vote for passage in the House. It still would need to pass through the Senate and be signed by the Governor before it would take effect. Thanks for the update - I don't expect there be to a law in place by the time we plan to be on HHI - but if someone gets peeved enough, they may very well fast-track it (eg: FL and the right-to-life bills that were pushed through). We'll just cache away and if we get stopped we'll just stare back blankly and in our best mid-west drawl state "we didnt know nothin' 'bout that. we're from O-Hi-Ya." -hellifiknow Link to comment
Jeremy Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 but if someone gets peeved enough, they may very well fast-track it (eg: FL and the right-to-life bills that were pushed through). Considering it keeps getting kicked to the end of every agenda, I seriously doubt this will ever be fast-tracked. Link to comment
+sept1c_tank Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 I seriously doubt that it will ever become law. Just the same, it is a good lesson in civics. Link to comment
+thumperness Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Before Gov. Mark Sanford moved to Columbia when he got office he went to our church. When the time is right to write him let me know and I will send him a letter. I doubt he remembers us but its worth a try. Link to comment
+LadeBear68 Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Is there a schedule for today? Link to comment
+Deliveryguy428 Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Yeah we are listed on pg 9 http://www.scstatehouse.net/hcal/20050510.htm Link to comment
+Deliveryguy428 Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 12:05- no feed yet, is this correct with everyone else? Link to comment
CoyoteRed Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Technical difficulties. I had it and then lost and then it's back... Link to comment
+teamkimble Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Looks like they're on page 2. I'm watching with no problem (hope I'm watching the right thing!) Link to comment
+teamkimble Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 page 6. looks like they're going pretty quickly. and in the amount of time it took me to type that, they moved to page 7. Link to comment
+Deliveryguy428 Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Ok here we go ::crosses fingers:: Link to comment
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