Why "place" Virtuals?

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I see comments every so often like, "That would make a neat virtual" or "I wanted to place a virtual there".

 

I don't get this whole virtual thing. I don't go out and look for a location to "place" a virtual. When I find a place I want to bring other cachers to, I look for somewhere to hide a container. Isn't that what this game is about? Finding neat places, then figuring out how to get other cachers to see it? Since this game is called geocaching, doesn't it make sense that you should try to put a container there?

[+TeamK-9]

So Saxy, how many topics about virtuals have you started in the past year?

 

By my count, you're up to three, I could have missed a few, probably QUITE a few...

 

Edited April 2, 2005 by TeamK-9

[+The Leprechauns]

I like Cheetos, I like them a lot.

[WH]

Where's that dead horse image when you need it?

[+The Cheeseheads]

When I find a place I want to bring other cachers to, I look for somewhere to hide a container.

/me looks for someplace in this thread to hide a container...

[uperdooper]

did a micro in lansing, MI. today that could have been a virtual. a small park in the middle of town dedicated to the twin towers. there was even a beam from the towers there. it was only a key holder near the monument, but it was a cache.

[+E = Mc2]

There are times when I'd rather see a virt than an actual cache placed. I can think of a few caches I've had to forego, just because there was no way to search for the cache without being too obvious about it.

[+TeamK-9]

I like virtuals.

 

Especially the newer ones, placed since the "Wow Factor" rule was started.

 

I mean, there are some really cool virtuals that I did that I learned alot about.

 

Like a street in my brother's neighborhood that is paved with wooden bricks!! How crazy is that?

 

I discovered it because of caching. But then and again, I would have also discovered it two weeks later when there was a story about it in the newspaper. But rumor has it, the newspaper reporter discovered it because of caching...

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I like virtuals.

 

Especially the newer ones, placed since the "Wow Factor" rule was started.

 

I mean, there are some really cool virtuals that I did that I learned alot about.

 

Like a street in my brother's neighborhood that is paved with wooden bricks!! How crazy is that?

 

I discovered it because of caching. But then and again, I would have also discovered it two weeks later when there was a story about it in the newspaper. But rumor has it, the newspaper reporter discovered it because of caching...

But wouldn't you have also found it if someone had hidden a cache there?

[+TeamK-9]

I like virtuals.

 

Especially the newer ones, placed since the "Wow Factor" rule was started.

 

I mean, there are some really cool virtuals that I did that I learned alot about.

 

Like a street in my brother's neighborhood that is paved with wooden bricks!!  How crazy is that?

 

I discovered it because of caching.  But then and again, I would have also discovered it two weeks later when there was a story about it in the newspaper.  But rumor has it, the newspaper reporter discovered it because of caching...

But wouldn't you have also found it if someone had hidden a cache there?

No, it was a residential street.

 

Absolutely no tasteful way to place a cache...

 

I don't think I would have enjoyed it if it were just a hide-a-key behind a fence or something...

[+Cache Viking]

I have one Virtual that based on the logs is pretty much liked. Looked for a place to put a container, even a micro and decided that because of the archealogical sensitivity of the area and the homes that are right on the site that it would not work. Sorry you do not like them but it appears some people do.

 

[+In Search Of Faeries]

I like virtuals, they are interesting and educational if they are good ones.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I have one Virtual that based on the logs is pretty much liked. Looked for a place to put a container, even a micro and decided that because of the archealogical sensitivity of the area and the homes that are right on the site that it would not work. Sorry you do not like them but it appears some people do.

At least you thought about placing a container there. Most of these virt fanatics don't even get that far. They're trying to get a virt approved rather than trying to get a cache approved.

[+Team Snoopy]

Thankfully in my area, all the virtuals are really cool! One is at a fossil site. And you have to find certain markers all over the place. It was a great learning experience for my kids.

 

While we love finding the boxes, most of the time it's all about the hike and what we do on the way there or what we see. The virtuals show us things we might not have seen or taken the time to see otherwise. Just like the box hikes take us to parks we have not been to or even known about, just at the end is a box of trinkets, instead of something to look at. I do not exclude virutals from our "to see" list. But look forward to seeing them!

[+wornout]

I see comments every so often like, "That would make a neat virtual" or "I wanted to place a virtual there".

 

I don't get this whole virtual thing. I don't go out and look for a location to "place" a virtual. When I find a place I want to bring other cachers to, I look for somewhere to hide a container. Isn't that what this game is about? Finding neat places, then figuring out how to get other cachers to see it? Since this game is called geocaching, doesn't it make sense that you should try to put a container there?

You said, ""When I find a place I want to bring other cachers to, I look for somewhere to hide a container. Isn't that what this game is about?""

 

Yes, that is what the game is all about but what do you do when you want to bring other cachers to a cool place where you can not hide a cache either because of the area or geocaching restrictions?

 

You said, ""Isn't that what this game is about? Finding neat places, then figuring out how to get other cachers to see it?""

 

Yes, that is what it is all about and sometimes a virtual is the only way to do that.

 

You said, ""Since this game is called geocaching, doesn't it make sense that you should try to put a container there?

 

Where does it say that in order to geocache a container has to be involved? Did I miss something? I have read the other post you have started slamming virtuals and I don't see it there either?

[+E = Mc2]

"slamming" virtuals? Where? I don't see that anywhere.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I see comments every so often like, "That would make a neat virtual" or "I wanted to place a virtual there".

 

I don't get this whole virtual thing. I don't go out and look for a location to "place" a virtual. When I find a place I want to bring other cachers to, I look for somewhere to hide a container. Isn't that what this game is about? Finding neat places, then figuring out how to get other cachers to see it? Since this game is called geocaching, doesn't it make sense that you should try to put a container there?

You said, ""When I find a place I want to bring other cachers to, I look for somewhere to hide a container. Isn't that what this game is about?""

 

Yes, that is what the game is all about but what do you do when you want to bring other cachers to a cool place where you can not hide a cache either because of the area or geocaching restrictions?

 

You said, ""Isn't that what this game is about? Finding neat places, then figuring out how to get other cachers to see it?""

 

Yes, that is what it is all about and sometimes a virtual is the only way to do that.

 

You said, ""Since this game is called geocaching, doesn't it make sense that you should try to put a container there?

 

Where does it say that in order to geocache a container has to be involved? Did I miss something? I have read the other post you have started slamming virtuals and I don't see it there either?

Because of the definition of a cache, of course. This game started with placing a container somewhere. At its root, that's what the game is about. Hiding a container for others to find with a GPS.

 

Yes, there are some places where geocache containers are not allowed. That's fine, those places are possible candidates for virts. Yes, there are places where it would be too hard to place a geocache container there. That's fine, those places are possible candidates for virts, unless a container could be placed nearby.

 

The point is, since this game is geocaching the first question you should ask yourself when finding a location is "How do I hide a container here?" rather than, "How do I make this a virt?"

[+Team GPSaxophone]

"slamming" virtuals? Where? I don't see that anywhere.

That's right, I'm not slamming virtuals. I'm pointing out that virtuals are a different twist on the game, and in fact, their own game. Since they are piggybacking on this site, they should take the backseat to physical caches. Guess what? That's how the guidelines are set up! There shouldn't be any angst over this topic, no one's trying to stop you from geocaching. That's why you're on this site isn't it? You're supposed to be geocaching here. Anything else is in addition to that.

[KND]

Virtuals are my favorites.

[Pipanella]

I like virtuals, they are interesting and educational if they are good ones.

I agree!

 

Sometimes, it's just not a good idea to hide a cache in an awesome place, nor is it desirable, to have someone rooting around for one in those places. I'd rather do a virtual, and see the place, than to not ever know about the place at all.

[+IV_Warrior]

There shouldn't be any angst over this topic,

There would be less angst over the topic if some people would stop making new posts just to stir the pot...........

[Tahosa and Sons]

When I was in Denver this past week, I located several Virtuals (locationless) to be exact. And I don't think a container would be appropriate in this place. Or do you think a container should be put here to draw people to this place. Sax let me know if a container is really proper at this place.

 

[+The Cheeseheads]

Sometimes an interesting place is just an interesting place. Why is there a need to place a cache of any sort there? The locals all know about the place, and while it might be of interest to outsiders, I'm not sure how much a virtual is going to bring someone there from a long distance that otherwise would not have visited.

[+Miragee]

I found a Virtual the other day that was a nice change to the five-waypoint Multi I had just completed.

 

Also, there was no way a container could have been hidden at that location--a school ground where the "Virtual's" plaque was located in the lawn area.

 

Virtuals definitely have their place in this game, and compared to some of the physical caches I've been to, they certainly have more "intellectual and educational value."

[Pipanella]

Sometimes an interesting place is just an interesting place. Why is there a need to place a cache of any sort there? The locals all know about the place, and while it might be of interest to outsiders, I'm not sure how much a virtual is going to bring someone there from a long distance that otherwise would not have visited.

I don't know about that, Cheesy. My cousin grew up in Alton, Illinois, and when we were there with them last summer, we got to some places in town that she didn't know existed. We would never have gotten there if not for geocaching.

[+The Cheeseheads]

Sometimes an interesting place is just an interesting place. Why is there a need to place a cache of any sort there? The locals all know about the place, and while it might be of interest to outsiders, I'm not sure how much a virtual is going to bring someone there from a long distance that otherwise would not have visited.

I don't know about that, Cheesy. My cousin grew up in Alton, Illinois, and when we were there with them last summer, we got to some places in town that she didn't know existed. We would never have gotten there if not for geocaching.

True. My town has a lot of interesting places and historical landmarks, but I don't feel the urge to turn each one of them into a virtual. They may be good for a bullet point in the AAA guide, but nothing has the "WOW" factor.

 

I'm not complaining about the existence of virtuals; I've done several that are interesting as you described. I'm just agreeing with GPSaxophone that geocaching is first and foremost a game of finding containers and that should be what people strive to hide, not looking for places to "hide" virtuals.

[+Miragee]

Sometimes an interesting place is just an interesting place. Why is there a need to place a cache of any sort there? The locals all know about the place, and while it might be of interest to outsiders, I'm not sure how much a virtual is going to bring someone there from a long distance that otherwise would not have visited.

If an "interesting place" isn't posted on Geocaching.com, I'm never going to find it. I live in a very rural area and know very little about the huge metropolitan area that is thirty-miles from my home.

 

And, one virtual I found was near a road I drive almost every time I go into town, but I never went to that "Secret Garden" before because I was always too busy running errands.

 

Because of Geocaching I've discovered places even "locals" might not be aware of.

[+AuntieWeasel]

I seldom do virtuals, and I love drawing cartoon weasels in a log book, but I've often thought if they renamed this game "Hey, Come Look at this Really Cool Thing in the Woods!" I'd still play.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

When I was in Denver this past week, I located several Virtuals (locationless) to be exact. And I don't think a container would be appropriate in this place. Or do you think a container should be put here to draw people to this place. Sax let me know if a container is really proper at this place.

Tahosha, I answered that question earlier. This thread isn't about places where caches would be inappropriate, it's about asking if a container would work there before deciding to make a virt instead of deciding on the type of cache first.

 

Since this is geocaching, why would you ever "want" to place a virt? You should only place a virt as a last resort if the location would not support a cache and still has that "WOW!" factor.

[+BigHank]

Sax,

 

Do you feel the same way about event caches? I read your posts and mentally substituted "event" for every place you had "virtual." No change to the sense of what you were writing. This is not meant to be a flame or anything, I really am curious if you feel the same way about event caches.

 

Hank

[+Team Cotati]

I am really glad that this site supports virtual caches. They add such an interesting dimension to the game. Most of the best virtuals are in locations that would not be appropriate for traditional caches. They are gereat for families and those interested in history and in sights where traditional caches would not be appropriate. Virtuals can exist without disturbing the natural order, ambiance and serenity of a location.

[+WascoZooKeeper]

I like Cheetos, I like them a lot.

[+Team Cotati]

I wish that certain 'traditional' caches that I have seen were required to have that "WOW" factor in order to exist.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Sax,

 

Do you feel the same way about event caches? I read your posts and mentally substituted "event" for every place you had "virtual." No change to the sense of what you were writing. This is not meant to be a flame or anything, I really am curious if you feel the same way about event caches.

 

Hank

An event cache is an entirely different animal. It is a temporary function that does not block other caches from being in the same area. They actually encourage other cachers to place caches nearby in many cases.

 

I can't say the same for a virt. Virts are a plague that prevent other caches from being placed. They cloud the eyes of land managers who see them as a zero-impact version of container caches.

[+Team Cotati]

"Because of Geocaching I've discovered places even "locals" might not be aware of. "

 

Exactly. Thank you.

[+Team Cotati]

Virtuals do not prevent other types of caches from being placed. And they are in fact zero-impact versions of container caches in many many sensitive areas where traditional caches would not be appropriate nor acceptable to land owners and managers.

[Tahosa and Sons]

Why place a virtual you ask. Well there are several good reasons. They can be informative, used as a practice tool for your GPS while the hills are still covered in snow. They can be used as a separate part of a multi cache. They can be used as a route finding tool to bring the cacher the safe way into some places that I traverse in the back country.

 

Maybe you should go look for some of my virtuals that are in the springs, take your kids to the train, and see if they can learn more from that cache than they can from a box in the bushes.

 

Come North to Loveland I've got enough Virtuals to keep you busy for a day or two, and I know of two of them that would be real tough to do both of them in one day.

[+Team Cotati]

Any virtual cache that infringes on a traditional cache shold not be approved. Any virtual cache that after approval is deemed to have infringed upon a location that is better suited for a traditional cache, should be deleted.

 

Peaceful co-existence is both possible and desirable.

Edited April 3, 2005 by Team cotati697

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Virtuals do not prevent other types of caches from being placed. And they are in fact zero-impact versions of container caches in many many sensitive areas where traditional caches would not be appropriate nor acceptable to land owners and managers.

Yes they do. You may not place another cache within 0.1 miles of a virtual cache.

 

I've said before, this thread isn't about the virtuals that are placed where traditional caches cannot go.

[+Team Cotati]

Virtuals do not prevent other types of caches from being placed. And they are in fact zero-impact versions of container caches in many many sensitive areas where traditional caches would not be appropriate nor acceptable to land owners and managers.

Yes they do. You may not place another cache within 0.1 miles of a virtual cache.

 

I've said before, this thread isn't about the virtuals that are placed where traditional caches cannot go.

Please see my 7:57. Thank you. Also, in my opinion, the 0.1 mile rule should not apply when either one of the competing locations are a virtual. And besides, how often do you actually believe that a traditional cache cannot be placed 529' from a virtual? Let's not blow this out of proportion.

Edited April 3, 2005 by Team cotati697

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Virtuals do not prevent other types of caches from being placed. And they are in fact zero-impact versions of container caches in many many sensitive areas where traditional caches would not be appropriate nor acceptable to land owners and managers.

Yes they do. You may not place another cache within 0.1 miles of a virtual cache.

 

I've said before, this thread isn't about the virtuals that are placed where traditional caches cannot go.

Please see my 7:57. Thank you.

I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with that term

Edited April 3, 2005 by Team GPSaxophone

[+Team Cotati]

Virtuals do not prevent other types of caches from being placed. And they are in fact zero-impact versions of container caches in many many sensitive areas where traditional caches would not be appropriate nor acceptable to land owners and managers.

Yes they do. You may not place another cache within 0.1 miles of a virtual cache.

 

I've said before, this thread isn't about the virtuals that are placed where traditional caches cannot go.

Please see my 7:57. Thank you.

I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with that term

What 'term' would that be?

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Why place a virtual you ask.  Well there are several good reasons.  They can be informative,

And traditional caches can't?

used as a practice tool for your GPS while the hills are still covered in snow.

So do some physical caches around town

They can be used as a separate part of a multi cache.

Your best idea yet

They can be used as a route finding tool to bring the cacher the safe way into some places that I traverse in the back country.

Sounds like the same as stages in a multi

Maybe you should go look for some of my virtuals that are in the springs, take your kids to the train, and see if they can learn more from that cache than they can from a box in the bushes.

If I want to read the marker next to a cache, that's my choice. If i want to teach my kids about it, that's my choice. Too many virtuals out there try and "force" a history lesson on you.

Come North to Loveland I've got enough Virtuals to keep you busy for a day or two, and I know of two of them that would be real tough to do both of them in one day.

I don't go out of my way for virts. In fact, I haven't logged any since last summer sometime. I happened to be in the area for those so I figured "why not?". Now I just add them to my ignore list. If I enjoyed just finding "Wow!" locations, I wouldn't need to go geocaching, I'd just get a tourbook from AAA.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Virtuals do not prevent other types of caches from being placed. And they are in fact zero-impact versions of container caches in many many sensitive areas where traditional caches would not be appropriate nor acceptable to land owners and managers.

Yes they do. You may not place another cache within 0.1 miles of a virtual cache.

 

I've said before, this thread isn't about the virtuals that are placed where traditional caches cannot go.

Please see my 7:57. Thank you.

I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with that term

What 'term' would that be?

The only one I quoted

 

Please see my 7:57

 

Is that something like "4:20" or "talk to the hand"?

[Pipanella]

Well, it seems to me that 'some' people, not naming names, just don't WANT to see any good in virtuals. I like virtuals and am glad they are part of the geocaching game, and though I can see some of the points that those against them make, I don't think the same can be said of some people in regard to the reasons that some like them.

 

And I don't think either is going to convince the other.

[Pipanella]

 

Please see my 7:57

 

Is that something like "4:20" or "talk to the hando"?

He's referring to his post.

Edited April 3, 2005 by Pipanella

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Well, it seems to me that 'some' people, not naming names, just don't WANT to see any good in virtuals. I like virtuals and am glad they are part of the geocaching game, and though I can see some of the points that those against them make, I don't think the same can be said of some people in regard to the reasons that some like them.

 

And I don't think either is going to convince the other.

I think you're mistaken

"slamming" virtuals? Where? I don't see that anywhere.

That's right, I'm not slamming virtuals. I'm pointing out that virtuals are a different twist on the game, and in fact, their own game. Since they are piggybacking on this site, they should take the backseat to physical caches. Guess what? That's how the guidelines are set up! There shouldn't be any angst over this topic, no one's trying to stop you from geocaching. That's why you're on this site isn't it? You're supposed to be geocaching here. Anything else is in addition to that.

[+Team Cotati]

Virtuals do not prevent other types of caches from being placed. And they are in fact zero-impact versions of container caches in many many sensitive areas where traditional caches would not be appropriate nor acceptable to land owners and managers.

Yes they do. You may not place another cache within 0.1 miles of a virtual cache.

 

I've said before, this thread isn't about the virtuals that are placed where traditional caches cannot go.

Please see my 7:57. Thank you.

I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with that term

What 'term' would that be?

The only one I quoted

 

Please see my 7:57

 

Is that something like "4:20" or "talk to the hand"?

Look, I made a post that was time stamped 7:57. I referred you to that post for additional info. Why this is such a foreign 'term' to you I do not understand. As usual this subject is degrading into an argument and I for one do not want to be reprimanded again by those who monitor the forums. Thus I will no longer be posting on this topic. Thanks for your wonderful discussion and debate. You win.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

 

Please see my 7:57

 

Is that something like "4:20" or "talk to the hando"?

He's referring to his post.

That would make sense. Since it says 8:57 on it, I'll have to assume he's in the Pacific Time Zone.

Any virtual cache that infringes on a traditional cache shold not be approved. Any virtual cache that after approval is deemed to have infringed upon a location that is better suited for a traditional cache, should be deleted.

 

Peaceful co-existence is both possible and desirable.

Sounds fair to me

Edited April 3, 2005 by Team GPSaxophone

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Virtuals do not prevent other types of caches from being placed. And they are in fact zero-impact versions of container caches in many many sensitive areas where traditional caches would not be appropriate nor acceptable to land owners and managers.

Yes they do. You may not place another cache within 0.1 miles of a virtual cache.

 

I've said before, this thread isn't about the virtuals that are placed where traditional caches cannot go.

Please see my 7:57. Thank you.

I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with that term

What 'term' would that be?

The only one I quoted

 

Please see my 7:57

 

Is that something like "4:20" or "talk to the hand"?

Look, I made a post that was time stamped 7:57. I referred you to that post for additional info. Why this is such a foreign 'term' to you I do not understand. As usual this subject is degrading into an argument and I for one do not want to be reprimanded again by those who monitor the forums. Thus I will no longer be posting on this topic. Thanks for your wonderful discussion and debate. You win.

Maybe you should have said "refer to the post I wrote at 7:57" or better yet, quote it. It helps to keep the discussion on track. This is the Internet, people are from different places; not only different time zones but different cultures too. How am I supposed to know what your numbers refer to, especially when they don't match the ones on my computer?