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No Tresspassing


Two Humans and a Dog

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My wife and I are relatively new to geocaching. We started last year and in areas we were familiar with. We would like to range out a little into new places. But I am concerned about accessing various sites for the caches. I know some might be against what I am about to say, but ....oh well. I think it would be very considerate of cache owner/operators to include lawful parking coordinates in their cache page. It is not going to take the fun out of finding the cache and would elliminate most possiblities of incidental tresspassing. I know that most cache owners/operators have taken much into consideration, but some have not. I do have an example of one cache in our area that happens to be in a park. If you don't read the signs carefully...you will find yourself with a ticket on your window. (the park is closed part of the time) And yet, nothing was mentioned on the cache page. Can you imagine someone traveling to visit a distant cache only to find the access closed? I would be ticked off...

 

I have noticed a trend to add more info to some of the cache pages, but as of yet it is not consistant. I am speaking of the helpful icons on the pages to tell of pets welcome and so on. I do not have a cache myself, but believe that the web site owners could put forth a simple form to be filled out for each cache represented. That would be in the best interest of consistancy. :o

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From disclaimer on every cache page:

Geocaching, hiking, backpacking and other outdoor activities involve risk to both persons and property. There are many variables including, but not limited to, weather, fitness level, terrain features and outdoor experience, that must be considered prior to seeking or placing a Cache. Be prepared for your journey and be sure to check the current weather and conditions before heading outdoors. Always exercise common sense and caution.

 

Personally, if someone lacks the common sense to know they shouldn't get to the cache by going through a back yard; or that if they are caching after dark they should check the park hours; they deserve a ticket or more.

 

This nanny-state crap has got to stop.

We were given the ability to reason so we wouldn't need someone else directing every little minute part of our lives.

The less we have to exercise our ability to think for ourselves; the more that ability atrophies in each new generation. At this rate my grandkids will need someone to tell them when to eat and go to the bathroom.

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I always appreciate parking advice on a cache page; it can be awfully tricky to work out what's public and what's not, especially if the two are blended. In the absence of instructions, I go to online maps and try to work out what my options are.

 

Anything more formal than that on the cache page would probably be problematical. But I, personally, won't get out of the car if the legality of parking is unclear. It's just too uncomfortable.

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I don't like the idea of a blanket rule. There are times when parking instructions would be nice. Other times it is part of the challenge to have to find parking. Yet other times when it is not a problem to find legitimate parking.

 

There have been times when I have felt uncomfortable and have skipped a cache because it was not clear what was private and what was public.

 

I would like to leave it to the cache owner's discretion.

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I agree. I only have one cache out there and it was up before I had actually done any caching so I was very unsure as to how data I should list when I posted it. But I think I will update it to include parking info as soon as I'm back in town...

If someone doesn't want to use the info, more power to 'em. But it would be nice for everyone else.

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Personally, if someone lacks the common sense to know . . if they are caching after dark they should check the park hours; they deserve a ticket or more.

In most cases you can't check the hours until you get there. If the owner doesn't post them you can drive a long way just to find the park is closed on Wednesdays or after 5 pm, or etc.

 

There are at least two parks near me that have multiple ways to enter them. Only the most popular entry has signs saying they’re closed after such-and-such time.

 

I personally think all cache owners should include any restrictions on the hours it’s open, just as they should include whether there are fees. Early in our geocaching, while on a trip we drove about 10 minutes out of our way to visit a cache, just to find there was a fee of $10 per passenger to enter this “Public” park. $15 to find one cache wasn’t worth it to us so the trip was wasted.

 

I tend to agree about the proliferation of rules and regulations, but Groundspeak already has a lot of rules and this creates the feeling that, “Gosh, there are already a jillion rules, adding just one more that does what I think needs to be done, and is more clearly needed more than many of the existing ones . . .”

 

Edited to add:

 

'Course, I think the proliferation of rules closing parks after such and such a time aren’t good either. :o:o

Edited by Thot
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These are good, well-considered points. (There are free websites that can generate the HTML for the icons and bullet-points you see on some cache description pages.) It is always important, when you put out a new cache for the public's entertainment, that you carefully spell-out what the seeker needs to know, even if you think it "ought to be fairly obvious." Better to err on the side of caution, and of course, on the side of fun. Likewise, look carefully for "No Trespassing" and private-property issues near the proposed cache site. Remember that the seeker might not be familiar with the area, might be following the map-pointer or a computer-route to the location, and might well not attempt entry the "right" way. You, the cache setter, need to always think in-advance about such possible issues... to maximize the seeker's enjoyment of your cache.

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From disclaimer on every cache page:

Geocaching, hiking, backpacking and other outdoor activities involve risk to both persons and property. There are many variables including, but not limited to, weather, fitness level, terrain features and outdoor experience, that must be considered prior to seeking or placing a Cache. Be prepared for your journey and be sure to check the current weather and conditions before heading outdoors. Always exercise common sense and caution.

 

Personally, if someone lacks the common sense to know they shouldn't get to the cache by going through a back yard; or that if they are caching after dark they should check the park hours; they deserve a ticket or more.

 

This nanny-state crap has got to stop.

We were given the ability to reason so we wouldn't need someone else directing every little minute part of our lives.

The less we have to exercise our ability to think for ourselves; the more that ability atrophies in each new generation. At this rate my grandkids will need someone to tell them when to eat and go to the bathroom.

 

did you know that science has shown that the human brain - as well as the head - is shrinking?

 

He is correct - I don't want someone holding my hand!

 

But! They say in time the human brain will be the size of a small peach.

 

We need to USE that gray matter if we want to keep it.

 

Brain activity also prevens dementia and alsheimers (sp).

 

So USE IT OR LOSE IT!

cc\

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Personally, if someone lacks the common sense to know . . if they are caching after dark they should check the park hours; they deserve a ticket or more.

In most cases you can't check the hours until you get there. If the owner doesn't post them you can drive a long way just to find the park is closed on Wednesdays or after 5 pm, or etc.

 

There are at least two parks near me that have multiple ways to enter them. Only the most popular entry has signs saying they’re closed after such-and-such time. : :o

That's part of the game. Sure, if a park has a crazy rule about being closed the 2nd Thursday after the new moon, then a responsible cache owner should post that.

If you plan on caching at 11:00pm, you need to assume the responsibility to check to see if the area is open at that time. I enjoy night caching, and I am fully aware of the risks. I know most urban/suburban parks are closed after sunset. If I do a cache anyway, it's my choice. Common sense and responsibility for ones own actions. It's not the cache owner's fault for failing to tell me. Forget the geocaching part.

What if there was no cache? What if you just wanted to go for a hike? Would you drive around and look for legal parking, or would you park in a tow-away zone? Would you find the park entrance, or would you just cut through someone's yard? Would you check for a park hours sign or maybe even look online before leaving the house, or would you just go and hope for the best?

What if it was a store instead of a park? Would you find out when they are open before you left the house, or would you just go? If it's 10pm on a Sunday night and you don't bother to check the store hours, who's fault is it you made a wasted trip?

 

Geocaching is just traveling or hiking with the destination being a specific set of coords. Following the GPS arrow does not absolve you of common sense and responsibility. Try as they might, you also cant legislate common sense and responsibility.

We don't need more rules; we need more people that can think for themselves instead of relying on other people to tell them what to do.

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Personally, if someone lacks the common sense to know . . if they are caching after dark they should check the park hours; they deserve a ticket or more.

In most cases you can't check the hours until you get there. If the owner doesn't post them you can drive a long way just to find the park is closed on Wednesdays or after 5 pm, or etc.

 

There are at least two parks near me that have multiple ways to enter them. Only the most popular entry has signs saying they’re closed after such-and-such time.

 

I personally think all cache owners should include any restrictions on the hours it’s open, just as they should include whether there are fees. Early in our geocaching, while on a trip we drove about 10 minutes out of our way to visit a cache, just to find there was a fee of $10 per passenger to enter this “Public” park. $15 to find one cache wasn’t worth it to us so the trip was wasted.

 

I tend to agree about the proliferation of rules and regulations, but Groundspeak already has a lot of rules and this creates the feeling that, “Gosh, there are already a jillion rules, adding just one more that does what I think needs to be done, and is more clearly needed more than many of the existing ones . . .”

 

Edited to add:

 

'Course, I think the proliferation of rules closing parks after such and such a time aren’t good either. :o:o

 

Thot - I know you are in Arizona, but the parks around the Bay Area in California are pretty well advertised and some pretty regulated also. You can go to the web and check out just about ever park there is to find out everything from the hours to parking - trail maps - you name it. The parks dept. has a general office you can call and most of the (mulitiple cache) sized parks have a resident ranger you can also call.

 

So at least around here it doesn't take a lot of research to find out when a park closes and if your car is gunna be trapped. Have not heard of them giving tickets around here but it could happen - I just haven't heard.

 

cc\

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Thot - I know you are in Arizona . . .

Just for clarification. Actually, I'm in Houston

 

the parks around the Bay Area in California are pretty well advertised and some pretty regulated also.  You can go to the web and check out just about ever park there is to find out everything from the hours to parking - trail maps - you name it.  The parks dept. has a general office you can call and most of the (mulitiple cache) sized parks have a resident ranger you can also call.

 

So at least around here it doesn't take a lot of research to find out when a park closes

The same is usually true of City, County and State parks around here, but there are many neighborhood parks where lots caches are hidden. Also, remembering to do separate research to be sure you aren't going on the wrong day can be avoided if the owner notes and time/day restrictions in the cache description.

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This nanny-state crap has got to stop.

We were given the ability to reason so we wouldn't need someone else directing every little minute part of our lives.

The less we have to exercise our ability to think for ourselves; the more that ability atrophies in each new generation. At this rate my grandkids will need someone to tell them when to eat and go to the bathroom.

 

Wow. This seems a little harsh.... If the cache is in some place (park or not) that requires special parking or that closes at certain times, or is inaccessable at certain times...I would think that it should be part of the cache information page...maybe I'm just not H$Rdc0R3 enuf.

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What if it was a store instead of a park? Would you find out when they are open before you left the house, or would you just go? If it's 10pm on a Sunday night and you don't bother to check the store hours, who's fault is it you made a wasted trip?

In my area there are almost no parks you can call at all, much less at 10pm.

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Certainly (IMHO) the icons are a good idea. They are new, though, so it will be a while until they are widely updated. I think it is only considerate to inform someone if they will be paying for access, not able to access at certain hours, or restricted to parking in certain areas. It doesn't give up the cache location.

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:o Don't be lazy......give the public the info they need.

 

Amen to HIPS -Meister, Thot, Erfunden, Greymane & Auntie Weasel!!!!

 

Sometimes common sense does not enter into it. If a cache is placed anywhere, it is normally assumed it is accessable. We are not mind readers...so just put the info down. If not, maybe someone should hold your hand when you developing a cache.

 

The "disclaimer" on each cache page is only a legal "I'm not responsible, you are" statement. Courtesy is an entirely differnt thing.

Edited by Two Humans and a Dog
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What if it was a store instead of a park? Would you find out when they are open before you left the house, or would you just go? If it's 10pm on a Sunday night and you don't bother to check the store hours, who's fault is it you made a wasted trip?

In my area there are almost no parks you can call at all, much less at 10pm.

http://www.houstontx.gov/parks/ParkRulesReg.html

 

Park hours of operation for all city parks are 6 a.m. to 11 p.m. unless otherwise posted.

 

There is also a phone number, 713-845-1000, if you would like specific info for a Houston City park. Now, that wasn't so hard, was it? :o

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:o Don't be lazy......give the public the info they need.

 

Amen to HIPS -Meister, Thot, Erfunden, Smitherington, Greymane & Auntie Weasel!!!!

 

Sometimes common sense does not enter into it. If a cache is placed anywhere, it is normally assumed it is accessable. We are not mind readers...so just put the info down. If not, maybe someone should hold your hand when you developing a cache.

Don't be lazy, if you aren't sure, research the area before leaving the house.

 

Maybe the cache owner should have to post his phone number so he can meet you at a pre-arranged location and hold your hand to make sure you find his cache? Maybe he could just bring it by your house so you can sign the log.

 

Once again, it IS a case of responsibility. You call the cache owner lazy for not posting parking coords and step by step directions to find the cache. I say you are lazy if you expect everyone else to think for you.

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If I want you to park in as specific spot I'll say so. Emphasis is added by the fact that on most all of my other 60+ caches I've done I don't mention parking. Parking is obviouse. It's a skill we have all honed over many years of driving. If I don't list coordinates for parking it means I really don't care where you park. It aslo means that I managed to park successfully, when I went to place the cache . If a person has a need to break some of those rules learned during their lifetime... that's beyond my control. Most people don't have that need.

 

If I do take the time to list parking coordinates then there is a reason and its rock solid advice to use them.

 

Edit: Made the post less directed since that had no bearing on the point.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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Let it go Mopar......you obviously lost the argument :o

Did I? I didn't know we were keeping score. But if we are, Auntie makes it quite clear if there are no parking coords she knows how to decide for herself, and Smitherington, Compucash, and RK seem to fall pretty square on the side of no specific rule requiring parking coords.

Besides, I can safely bet GC.com isn't going to make a rule forcing people to post parking coords (it's come up before) so I guess *I* win, huh? :o

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http://www.houstontx.gov/parks/ParkRulesReg.html

 

Park hours of operation for all city parks are 6 a.m. to 11 p.m. unless otherwise posted.

 

There is also a phone number, 713-845-1000, if you would like specific info for a Houston City park. Now, that wasn't so hard, was it?

As I mentioned in an earlier post, many if not most caches in our area are in neighborhood/subdivision parks -- not City of Houston parks.

 

I just did a short check. Of the 10 caches nearest me that are in parks, only two are in a County park. None are in City or State Parks. The other 8 are in small neighborhood parks that aren’t on the web and I have no idea who you would call for most of them.

 

I think it's just common courtesy to let other cachers know if there are restrictions that can prevent them reaching the cache.

Edited by Thot
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Auntie makes it quite clear if there are no parking coords she knows how to decide for herself, and Smitherington, Compucash, and RK seem to fall pretty square on the side of no specific rule requiring parking coords.

You can add me to that list unless there are extenuating circumstances that make it dangerous or abusive not to list them. On thing I do oppose is putting needed parking coordinates in the encrypted hint. By the time I read a hint I will have already parked and can’t find the cache.

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I think it's just common courtesy to let other cachers know if there are restrictions that can prevent them reaching the cache.

My point exactly. I don't think there should be a rule requiring parking information. I just think if it is possible that a "reasonable" person could end up in a bad situation by parking in a "good" spot, then give them a little guidance. Sometimes you need to just tell them where NOT to park.

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Besides, I can safely bet GC.com isn't going to make a rule forcing people to post parking coords (it's come up before) so I guess *I* win, huh?  :o

The OP said nothing about GC.com making a rule. They said it would be courteous.

 

I think we all agree that a rule would be a bad idea. I also agree that if there is a chance that parking in the wrong place is a problem, being told so by the cache owner would be courteous.

 

Is courtesy a bad thing now?

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Besides, I can safely bet GC.com isn't going to make a rule forcing people to post parking coords (it's come up before) so I guess *I* win, huh?  :o

The OP said nothing about GC.com making a rule. They said it would be courteous.

 

I think we all agree that a rule would be a bad idea. I also agree that if there is a chance that parking in the wrong place is a problem, being told so by the cache owner would be courteous.

 

Is courtesy a bad thing now?

I have noticed a trend to add more info to some of the cache pages, but as of yet it is not consistent. I am speaking of the helpful icons on the pages to tell of pets welcome and so on. I do not have a cache myself, but believe that the web site owners could put forth a simple form to be filled out for each cache represented. That would be in the best interest of consistancy.

 

If the cache submission form requires you to enter parking coords, that's a rule, not a courtesy. To be "consistent" as the OP suggests is needed, all caches would have to have parking coords. If you have to provide them, that's a rule, not a courtesy, no matter what you call it.

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I don't mind parking coordinates -- after all it's my choice to load them in to the GPS or not. I have parking coords on those of my caches that need them, as a courtesy. Just don't load them into the GPS. Me, if it's a parking issue or a hidden trail entrance, I'd rather not have to fuss with finding them, when I could be out of my car and walking to the cache. I don't think there needs to be a blanket rule to include them, but I also don't understand Mopar's in-your-face response to the OP. Let's not get back to the "Stomp the Noob" days of the forums.

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Early in our geocaching, while on a trip we drove about 10 minutes out of our way to visit a cache, just to find there was a fee of $10 per passenger to enter this “Public” park. $15 to find one cache wasn’t worth it to us so the trip was wasted.

You were in a car with 1.5 people in it? That's a sick, sick way to geocache, dude. :D

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You were in a car with 1.5 people in it?  That's a sick, sick way to geocache, dude.  :D

:D Did't that make it clear? My friends told the gatekeeper I was a half-wit and should only be charged $5 since I would only be able to enjoy the park half as much as the others.

 

It was $5 a person. Don't know why I said 10. :D

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If the cache submission form requires you to enter parking coords, that's a rule, not a courtesy. To be "consistent" as the OP suggests is needed, all caches would have to have parking coords. If you have to provide them, that's a rule, not a courtesy, no matter what you call it.

Perhaps I'm misreading it, but the OP seems to be using the "icons" as a comparable feature. Since the icons are not required, the proposed "form" would not be required. Not being the OP, I can only guess at their intentions.

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My 2 cents.

 

I think finding the parking is one of the most challenging parts of geocaching in many cases. For me personally, it's the hike I enjoy, not the drive of getting there. The sooner I'm into the parking space, out of the car, and on my way to the cache box, the happier I am.

 

I for one would appreciate having the parking coordinates, even if there was a way to hide or encrypt them, sort of like the hints.

 

I can see why others enjoy the challenge of doing it without the coords of the parking, too. It's part of the treasure hunt -- the unknown adventure. And I do see why it would be tough to include them in some (puzzle caches, etc.). But would it be hard to just not put them in your GPSr if you didnt' want them for most caches?

 

Some caches (i.e., one of ours) are on private property, and there would be no way of knowing the legal way to get through without posting the parking coords. We put the parking coords on almost all of our cache hides...unless it is absolutely obvious where to park when approaching the coords. We do it as a courtesy partly because we are so grateful when other cache hiders do it.

 

There are safety issues linked to having them there as well.

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Personally, if someone lacks the common sense to know . . if they are caching after dark they should check the park hours; they deserve a ticket or more.

In most cases you can't check the hours until you get there. If the owner doesn't post them you can drive a long way just to find the park is closed on Wednesdays or after 5 pm, or etc.

 

The distance to the park is irrelevant if you are native to the area. You should already know what the general State and county rules are about the parks you're going to find yourself in. Ignorance is no excuse.

 

Making it the cache owner's responsibility to post hours merely takes the responsibility off of the finder to do their research first. If you don't do a little research ahead of time, expect to make a second trip or suffer the consequences because you choose to ignore the rules of the park or parking.

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To me it just seems like common sense...If you hide a cache that has accessability limitations (hours of operation, needing a 4 x 4 , seasonal closures etc...) then you should post those things in your cache description. Maybe I am out of line, but if I drove a couple of hours to a cache and the place was closed, and there was no mention of this on the description page I would lose a little respect for the hider.

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I've had problems with several of these points at several times. For example:

 

I live in SW Wyoming, and often go caching in NE Utah. This area is a checkerboard of BLM and Private land, often with no indication where one ends and the other begins, and all the fences look the same. I've seen several cache listings that give the cache coordinates, but no actual info on how to get access. I'm not about to start jumping fences and risk getting shot at by some grumpy rancher, or getting a ticket from a state trooper. If it's obvious, or private property areas are posted, then fine. But if I need to take a specific exit off the freeway, or if some unposted area is going to get my car towed or hit by a tanker truck, I want to know about it. I ended up skipping a cache the other day because the description did not list that I needed to take a specific exit to get to the area, and the next place to get off the freeway was about 20 miles distant. Not exactly my idea of a fun day caching, having to take an extra 40 miles, when a quick exit listing could have resolved it.

 

I don't think it should be a rule to include this info, but if you make it too hard to figure out where to go, or assume the knowledge of a well-informed local, then you will limit the number of people who will be willing to hunt your cache . . .

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[Finding a legal parking place is] part of the game.
I HATE BEING LOST IN A CAR AND I WILL NOT FORGIVE ANYONE WHO GETS ME LOST IN A CAR.

You get lost while carrying a GPS?

 

I believe part of the fn that i;ve experienced so far was finding the way there, the parking, best (try) approach, and finally zeroing in. If you get lost just driving to a cache, I don't see how you manage to make it back to your car when you get done.

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You get lost while carrying a GPS?

Goodness me yes. It's especially easy to do while driving, unless you're driving a helicopter. All sorts of impassable things out there: bays, rivers, hills, interstates, shopping malls. And not all streets that go in the right direction keep going for as long as you need them to. Nothing worse than getting yourself stuck in an industrial park grid on the wrong side of a lake from your destination.

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I don't think it should be a rule to include this info, but if you make it too hard to figure out where to go, or assume the knowledge of a well-informed local, then you will limit the number of people who will be willing to hunt your cache . . .

 

 

A cache was listed north of me recently, got only one visit for quite a long while. Mostly by virtue of being too mysterious. It really required local knowledge even to get started on the thing. I emailed a congratulations to the FTF, who mentioned knowing the placer and her disappointment at the lack of interest. I (cautiously) emailed her that providing parking/trailhead info would really increase the number of folks likely to attempt the cache. She did, and it has.

 

I like parking coordinates, and driving directions (where appropriate) too. So I provide them on my caches. Not always necessary, of course.

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You get lost while carrying a GPS?

Why would this surprise someone? The GPS is a great device for showing you direction, but it doesn't always confirm the direction is passable. The best part about a "trackback" function is that you KNOW that way is passable because you came that way. On a new route, you don't know what is ahead of you unless you have a mapping GPS (and even most of those are basic, at best). That is why I love using my PDA. I have a full USGS map right at my disposal (or even satellite photos). Sometimes I can guess the hiding spot just from the sat photo (building foundation, cave, stone wall), but mostly it is about finding the best way into an area.

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The distance to the park is irrelevant if you are native to the area.

And if you're not?

Then odds are you will get to see a lot of the town as you make wrong turns and can't find how to get there from here.

 

Most of the griping in this thread could be solved with a little pre-planning instead of caching blind. Even maps on the GPS help a lot.

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The new, well sort of new, cache ATTRIBUTES can be used to help you know what is in store. But if parking coordinates are required then well have the issue of parking coordinate density, okay this is tounge in cheek. you can only have on cacher at a site or something like that. Sometimes coordinates are not mentioned as part of a puzzle cache etc.... Read the logs and your find out some info. If in doubt email the owner.

cheers

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I ended up skipping a cache the other day because the description did not list that I needed to take a specific exit to get to the area, and the next place to get off the freeway was about 20 miles distant.  Not exactly my idea of a fun day caching, having to take an extra 40 miles, when a quick exit listing could have resolved it.

A quick check of online maps should have easily shown you which exit to take. Why would you drive past that exit when the next one was clearly 20 miles further down the road?! Is it reasonable for a cache hider to have to give turn-by-turn directions for every cacher, when they are all coming from a different starting point? No, it isn't. That's what street maps are for.

 

If there are specific restrictions on parking, hours, fees, etc., then sure, that info should be mentioned on the cache page; otherwise, all the info wanted/needed can be acquired with just a bit of research and/or a couple of clicks of the mouse. There are at least 4-5 links right on the cache page that will show you the coordinate location on a multitude of map types, from topo and aerial photo to detailed street maps. Before I head out caching, I have already scoped out the area(s), which roads I'll need to take to get to them, and what kind of terrain I'm likely to find when I get there. It's never really created a problem, and has certainly never caused me to drive an unplanned 40 miles. B)

Edited by 4x4van
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If there are restricted hours or fees required, I will put it on the page. Parking, however, is a whole different issue. I think finding "the best" place to park is all part of the game. I only list parking when it is not easy to find or to help cachers avoid less-then-obvious trespassing issues.

 

I visited one in Colorado that listed parking that was .72 miles away but a quick search showed a perfectly legal spot less than .15 away. Not sure if the owner wanted me to walk further, trace his steps, or was simply unaware of the closer spot. Preference is in the eye of the beholder.

 

Navigation whether on foot or in the car is all part of Geocaching. Otherwise we would all leave the cars at home and walk from there.

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A quick check of online maps should have easily shown you which exit to take.  Why would you drive past that exit when the next one was clearly 20 miles further down the road?!  Is it reasonable for a cache hider to have to give turn-by-turn directions for every cacher, when they are all coming from a different starting point?  No, it isn't.  That's what street maps are for.

A couple of reasons for this:

 

a) The road in question has a habit of dropping boulders from above into the middle of the road. I don't drive it unless I absolutely have to.

 

b ) The cache coordinates indicated close proximity to the main highway. I failed to make the connection with the other road.

 

Yes, I probably should have done some additional research to figure out where to go. HOWEVER - how hard would it have been to say something like "Located off Echo Canyon Road"? Or does that give too much away? If people don't want to play that way, fine. Put it in the encrypted hints. We're not all hardcore.

Edited by Benhamtroll, The Shrink, & Rainbow Girl
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B) Oh my goodness.... this was certainly a hot topic.

 

A good point was made a while back (not sure by who now) It is coutious to give parking directions. And my intentions "were" that a space be provided on a cache page for parking coordinates. I do not think it would be necessary to make any rules.

A form is not a rule unless you cannot submit it with ommitted info. But if space is provided for parking coordinates, it could be used at the discretion of the cache owner.

 

Maybe some sort of bench test can be made by the web site owners to see if this would be a popular idea. And to those who don't want to use it, don't.

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Bottom line (imho)... Make it fun. Sometimes people drive many miles just to go to (among others...) your cache. They're not from the area. They may or may not have fancy electronic maps. They might only have page-one of your published cache description, probably with the hint already decrypted, and they may have read page-one of the logs. That does not mean, however, that they are ill-prepared. They just don't know where to park. B)

 

If you own the cache, this is your guest. Your goal, and your responsibility, is to try to show them a good, safe time. Tell them what they need to know. (If you have to err, err on the side of caution. And if that makes it a "spoiler," include it anyway just encrypt it.) Remember that you are not only showing them a cache, but also introducing them to the area. They could be coming any time day or night, so if there's a time that's not a good time you should tell them outright. They might have brought their young child and maybe a couple of newbies to "show them geocaching." If they shouldn't have done that, you should tell them. They might take any course that looks plausible on the GPS, so you do need to tell them about that private property or that oozy bog full of eight-foot crocodiles. (Presumably they do intend to take their children back home with them.) <_< Whatever you do, don't leave them with a bitter taste in their mouth. ("Bamfoozled" is fine, however. "Stumped, mystified and bewildered, but not quite ready to give up yet," is part of the game. B) )

 

You'll soon find a particular kind of cache that you enjoy finding. Go out there and design and place good caches of the same type.

Edited by HIPS-meister
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Bottom line (imho)... Make it fun.

IMHO - much fun to try and find the best parking. All about Navigation.

 

Your goal, and your responsibility, is to try to show them a good, safe time.

Safety (as any lab will tell you) starts with individual responsibility. If there is a safety issue, time limits or fees - then point it out. But parking??? That is Navigation. Start at home and walk from there if you don't want to use your GPS in the car.

 

Again - the navigation aspect to find the best/close-in parking is all part of the challenge - to me anyway. There are hundreds of intertwing rural roads around where I live. Most are not marked by signs at all. Some don't appear on some maps. In cities, I plan my routes ahead of time to locate the cache area. Elsewhere, I try and do my homework first but sometimes I just have to guess a bit. If it results in a DNF, so be it. I was out having fun.

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Forget the geocaching part.

What if there was no cache? What if you just wanted to go for a hike? Would you drive around and look for legal parking, or would you park in a tow-away zone?

But, there is a cache. By placing one, you're saying that it can be accessed with a reasonable amount of effort.

 

The issue is what is reasonable, but that's why you rate your caches by difficulty, too.

 

We don't need more rules; we need more people that can think for themselves instead of relying on other people to tell them what to do.
I agree, this site has enough rules already. But that shouldn't excuse a poorely chosen cache site, either.

 

Not that I'm complaining, though. Most sites are better than I could do.

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