Hi Jacked Cache?

[+Konnarock Kid & Marge]

Hi Everyone,

I don't want to post a overly long note so if you don't mind to go to our Cougar, Tweetsies Box and the End (GCK7VT) page and read our posted notes. Our approver has informed us that no other cache has been approved for our cache site but another magnetic key holder has been put 8 feet from ours. There is no log in the "other" cache, just a note directing the cacher to go to another set of coordinates. This is too strange for words. What do you think and has anything like this happened to you? Thanks.

 

P.S. Here is the link to our cache page ( I hope it works):http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=04b7e126-bc76-414f-b51e-141813443b18

Edited March 15, 2005 by Konnarock Kid & Marge

[+welch]

have you gone to the other set of coords?

[+Konnarock Kid & Marge]

Yes. We went to the other coordinates and they take you to a covered bridge where there is another approved micro cache that has nothing to do with the "bogus" cache. We know the cachers who placed the lovely micro and it has a log. We happened to be FTF on the legit covered bridge cache.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Since your cache is also a magnetic key holder, I would remove the other one so it doesn't cause confusion.

Edited March 15, 2005 by Team GPSaxophone

[+cache_test_dummies]

Hmm. Interesting. A prank, maybe?

 

In your posted note on the cache page, you said something about a cache mentioned in the cache note:

 

The coordinates are to the Covered Bridge which also has another approved cache (GCK8CG) at that location and not the one mentioned in the cache note.

 

What other cache did the note refer to?

[+sbell111]

The mystery cache.

 

Of course, it could be a cache that is listed on anothersite.com.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

The mystery cache.

 

Of course, it could be a cache that is listed on anothersite.com.

All the more reason for one site to handle all cache listings

Edited March 15, 2005 by Team GPSaxophone

[+sbell111]

As far as I'm concerned there is only one site handling them all.

 

That is a good point and topic for a thread though. How does one coordinate with other sites if a park only allows x number of caches?

[+cache_test_dummies]

Of course, it could be a cache that is listed on anothersite.com.

Maybe, but then why list geocaching.com on the note in the false cache? Unless it was part of some devious plan to lure some poor unsuspecting soul into the foul grasp of some other site....

 

Most peculiar.

[+sbell111]

I didn't know that GC.com was referenced.

[+cache_test_dummies]

All the more reason for one site to handle all cache listings

Yes, one site to rule them all

 

Seriously, I wonder how things will be handled in the inevitable cases where competing sites have listed separate caches at the same location?

[+sbell111]

...Seriously, I wonder how things will be handled in the inevitable cases where competing sites have listed separate caches at the same location?

Cage match

[+cache_test_dummies]

I didn't know that GC.com was referenced.

From the note Konnarock Kid & Marge put on their cache page:

 

A note in the bogus cache states:

"www. geocaching.com

Welcome to step 1 now go to:

N 36.20' 50.4"

W 82. 12' 43.4"

To claim cache completion. what piece

of history is located here."

[+cache_test_dummies]

Cage match

[+sbell111]

A note in the bogus cache states:...

To be completely honest, I didn't pull up the cache page until you mentioned GC.com on the note. There was no link and I was really lazy.

[+AtoZ]

It is part of a multi cache and just bad luck for you as since is is not part of the cache your doing your in violation of the geocaching saturation rule. So you will have to find another spot for your cache as the other was there first.

Sorry to sound so, well what ever I sound, but this is what I makde a post about a while back of knowing where stages to other caches where when we placed a new cache. How can you keep from violating this if you have no way from knowing where other multis exist.

Good luck in find a new cache site.

cheers

[adampierson]

One local cacher experienced the same thing. Turns out, the someone couldn't find the original cache and decided to provide a replacement cache.

[+sbell111]

It is part of a multi cache and just bad luck for you as since is is not part of the cache your doing your in violation of the geocaching saturation rule. So you will have to find another spot for your cache as the other was there first. ...

It doesn't appear to be a part of any listed multi. KK&M's cache was there first. It gets to stay.

[+Jennifer&Dean]

It is part of a multi cache and just bad luck for you as since is is not part of the cache your doing your in violation of the geocaching saturation rule. So you will have to find another spot for your cache as the other was there first.

Sorry to sound so, well what ever I sound, but this is what I makde a post about a while back of knowing where stages to other caches where when we placed a new cache. How can you keep from violating this if you have no way from knowing where other multis exist.

Good luck in find a new cache site.

cheers

Their cache: Cougar, Tweetsie's Box and the... has been around since last August without anyone noticeing this other micro 8 feet away.

My best guess- Someone is setting up a multistep but hasn't submitted it and doesn't know about the cache saturation rules. Maybe start contacting new folks in your area and asking about possible multisteps they are trying to create. If someone says that they are working on one, then ask if they are using this location. It may just be an innocent accident by a newbie.

-J

[+Konnarock Kid & Marge]

Hi Folks,

Glad you are having fun with this one. To answer a couple of questions. AtoZ, I don't plan on moving my cache. It has been there since Aug. and our Approver said that the "bogus" cache has not been submitted. There is no way it was there before our cache was approved.

As I said, there is another approved cache if you follow the coordinates. The whole thing looks like a multi cache with the second (last) stage being a virtual.

Maybe it one of those fake caches that is trying to lure some poor nighttime cacher to their doom on a lonely dark bridge.

[+Konnarock Kid & Marge]

Hey Jennifer&Dean,

How did you get the link to our cache page (in blue) in your posting. It sure beats my clumsy way of putting the URL in my first posting. Thanks

[+sbell111]

Hit the <http://> button. enter the link's address, and name it.

[+Jennifer&Dean]

What Sbell111 said. Use the button for http:// which is part of the code buttons area above the posting area. Just remember to delete the extra Http it puts into the area if you copied that part of the address.

Good luck figuring the odd "bonus" cache out!

-Jen

[Stony2008]

Sounds like part of a multi.

 

edit: oh atoz already coverded that. nevermind

Edited March 15, 2005 by Stony2008

[+JohnnyVegas]

As far as I'm concerned there is only one site handling them all.

 

That is a good point and topic for a thread though.  How does one coordinate with other sites if a park only allows x number of caches?

one of my caches is list on another site as well as this one. I could not get listed here as a virtual so I do so on the other site.

Then again it could be part of a mulit that was place at a time when it was not required to submitt the coordinates for all legs of a mulit as is required now.

Edited March 16, 2005 by JohnnyVegas

[+sbell111]

Ummm, I used a smilie.

[+Renegade Knight]

All the more reason for one site to handle all cache listings

Yes, one site to rule them all

 

Seriously, I wonder how things will be handled in the inevitable cases where competing sites have listed separate caches at the same location?

It's possible for sites to coordinate caches and locations to prevent conflicts where caches are stacked. It would take trust and cooperation.

 

I've had it happen to me. I placed on on Navicache and someone placed their cache about 6' away. In the end I just retired mine, and used the container 250 miles away to bring back another cache. Meanwhile the other offending cache ended up stolen so now the area is open again.

[+fly46]

Hmm... Do you think your message on your cache page to leave nasty comments in the other container was a bit out of line?

[+Bull Moose]

The mystery cache.

 

Of course, it could be a cache that is listed on anothersite.com.

All the more reason for one site to handle all cache listings

Sure. As soon as GC.com starts a global variable points system with, I'll exclusively list with them. Until then, there may be occasional overlap.

But since the GC.com caches are “not about the numbers” I’ll split my time, thanks.

[+Konnarock Kid & Marge]

Hmm... Do you think your message on your cache page to leave nasty comments in the other container was a bit out of line?

Hi fly46,

I don't think my comment about leaving a nasty note in the container is out of line. Obviously the person knows something about caching because of the referrence to Geocaching.com. If he/she knows that much then they ought to be willing to read the rules about cache distances. To take a nice cache, if I do say so myself, and creat a lot of confusion is just plain wrong. If I really wanted to be mean, I would take others advice and simply remove it. Thanks for your reply.

[+welch]

AH HA !!

 

From the first log to the cache, its a left over from someone elses submiisstion. Had they posted something Max cacher would have have know it, but they didn't...

August 10, 2004 by 59greatbooks (294 found)

FTF at 9:45 pm. This is a great place for a cache. We've been eyeing it for a long time. Surprised a veteran cacher in the area hadn't scouted this spot out sooner. Good to see new cachers placing in interesting spots. In fact, we placed a magnetic keyholder on the train this past Sunday (about 4 feet from yours). We hadn't gotten around to submitting our cache placement when yours popped up. So now we are off to find other interesting spots in the area.

[+welch]

I don't think my comment about leaving a nasty note in the container is out of line. Obviously the person knows something about caching because of the referrence to Geocaching.com.[/ui] If he/she knows that much then they ought to be willing to read the rules about cache distances. To take a nice cache, if I do say so myself, and creat a lot of confusion is just plain wrong. If I really wanted to be mean, I would take others advice and simply remove it. Thanks for your reply.

Which is why you shouldn't be trying to tick them off, like saying'Some #@%*!! has placed an identical magnetic key holder about eight feet from our cache." .

Also, if theres was first, they could well have been saying the same of you .

[+cache_test_dummies]

From the first log to the cache, its a left over from someone elses submiisstion.

Nice detective work, welch! Mystery solved.

 

So the 'bogus' key holder was actually there first. But what I still don't understand is why the people who placed it and then were FTF on the 'legit' hide didn't remove their key holder?

 

Unless they were still planning on someday following through with their original idea for a multi?

 

Hopefully an email discussion between Konnarock Kid & Marge and 59greatbooks will get this all cleaned up.

[+cudlecub]

My cousins Vinny and Luigi will be in the area for the Geo-Symposium this weekend. For a nominal fee, they can take care of your problems.

 

Although I'll admit going caching with friends and just as they yell out "I found it" I will yell out "So did I" and pull a hide a hey from my pocket. Unfortunately that joke has gotten old with them and I have to pull it on other unsuspecting cachers now.

[+cudlecub]

From the first log to the cache, its a left over from someone elses submiisstion.

Nice detective work, welch! Mystery solved.

 

So the 'bogus' key holder was actually there first. But what I still don't understand is why the people who placed it and then were FTF on the 'legit' hide didn't remove their key holder?

 

Unless they were still planning on someday following through with their original idea for a multi?

 

Hopefully an email discussion between Konnarock Kid & Marge and 59greatbooks will get this all cleaned up.

59greatbooks didn't leave the keyholder. Their cache is a single stage micro located at the covered bridge just as KK&M have a single stage micro in the area of discussion. KK&M's cache has existed for 7 months and only recently has the other hide a key been discovered. I think it would have been discovered well before now if it had been there. I think it is in the process of being submitted for approval by another cacher.

[+cache_test_dummies]

59greatbooks didn't leave the keyholder.

This is what the 59greatbooks FTF log from August 10, 2004 says:

 

FTF at 9:45 pm. This is a great place for a cache. We've been eyeing it for a long time. Surprised a veteran cacher in the area hadn't scouted this spot out sooner. Good to see new cachers placing in interesting spots. In fact, we placed a magnetic keyholder on the train this past Sunday (about 4 feet from yours). We hadn't gotten around to submitting our cache placement when yours popped up. So now we are off to find other interesting spots in the area.

 

Edit: fix broken quote tag

Edited March 16, 2005 by cache_test_dummies

[+welch]

59greatbooks didn't leave the keyholder.  Their cache is a single stage micro located at the covered bridge just as KK&M have a single stage micro in the area of discussion.  KK&M's cache has existed for 7 months and only recently has the other hide a key been discovered.  I think it would have been discovered well before now if it had been there.  I think it is in the process of being submitted for approval by another cacher.

If someone had been already submitted by another cacher, wouldn't the approver have noticed this when Konnarock contacted them??

 

Of course Konnarock also seems to have had contact with 59greatbooks before...

Edited March 16, 2005 by welch

[+Konnarock Kid & Marge]

AH HA !!

 

From the first log to the cache, its a left over from someone elses submiisstion. Had they posted something Max cacher would have have know it, but they didn't...

August 10, 2004 by 59greatbooks (294 found)

FTF at 9:45 pm. This is a great place for a cache. We've been eyeing it for a long time. Surprised a veteran cacher in the area hadn't scouted this spot out sooner. Good to see new cachers placing in interesting spots. In fact, we placed a magnetic keyholder on the train this past Sunday (about 4 feet from yours). We hadn't gotten around to submitting our cache placement when yours popped up. So now we are off to find other interesting spots in the area.

Welch, nice try but we know 59greatbooks and the "bogus" cache is not theirs. They are vererans and know what they are doing. You referred to the FTF note on our cache which was by 59greatbooks and what they were planning was a single stage micro. Please note that the coordinates given in the cache are not in the proper format. As I said before, 59greatbooks are veterans and have taught us a lot. They would not make these kind of mistakes.

cudlecub, you are probably right. Your guess is the most logical.

We have posted a note on our local YaHoo group site to try to find out more. Thanks.

[+welch]

Alright, It wasn't them

 

Please note that the coordinates given in the cache are not in the proper format.

The format is improper but you can figure it out???

 

"As I said before, 59greatbooks are veterans and have taught us a lot. "

Sorry, that wasn't in this thread, just nice referrences to them .

 

I have another question, when HC found the cache, did they take anything out?

"March 13 by gotro&hc (1015 found)

Found log missing and new coordinates posted in an improper format: also, this is NOT a multistage cache--what gives? So we replaced the log. Nice spot; thanks. HC"

Edited March 16, 2005 by welch

[+cache_test_dummies]

Welch, nice try but we know 59greatbooks and the "bogus" cache is not theirs.

So if the newly discovered magnetic keyholder is NOT the one which was left by 59greatbooks just prior to August 10, 2004, that means there have been three cache-related magnetic keyholders stuck to this train since August, all within eight feet of each other? This must be one special train!

 

Ok, mystery back to unsolved. Keep us posted.

[Jeremy]

When two keyholders love each other very much...

[+cache_test_dummies]

When two keyholders love each other very much...

[+cudlecub]

Opps, detail was never my strong point. You just had to spoil my theories of it. I was wondering if this was the birthplace of geo hide-a-key containers and they were havested periodically. Now tell me who killed the butler.

Edited March 16, 2005 by cudlecub

[Shoobie & the Sand Crabs]

One local cacher experienced the same thing. Turns out, the someone couldn't find the original cache and decided to provide a replacement cache.

I have heard of this happening sveral times people can't find the cache put a new one up and count it as a find

[+sbell111]

Sure, but they almost never change the cache from a trad to a multi.

[Shoobie & the Sand Crabs]

good point

[+Konnarock Kid & Marge]

Hi again,

First of all I want everybody to know that we have no bad feelings toward whoever left the cache. I even went back and edited my note on the cache page so I would be more politically correct and not mean spirited towards the "bogus" cacher.

To answer a couple of questions that I think came from welch: as you know corrdinates are posted on a cache page in a common format i.e.(actual bridge cache coordinates) N 36*20.848 W 082* 12.677 (sorry I can't get the degree mark so I had to use an asterisk). In the cache note the corrdinates were: N 36. 20' 50.4" W 82. 12' 43.4" (notice the feet and inches marks). Dropping the feet and inches marks and rounding off the last three numbers takes you to the bridge. The difference in distance is the length of the bridge and it is a historical landmark which fits the question in the cache note.

The cachers who found the mystery cache container put a small piece of paper in the key holder which they thought was replacing a missing log. They did not take anything.

Isn't this fun? When we figure this one out we can turn to "how many angels can dance on a pin head".

[+Konnarock Kid & Marge]

Better yet, how many angels can fit into a micro cache?

[Keystone]

Those coordinates are not in "feet and inches." Those are the symbols for minutes and seconds. There are 60 seconds in a minute and 60 minutes in a degree. You can convert back and forth from that entirely legitimate method to other methods like decimal degrees or, as we use here on Geocaching.com, Degrees, Minutes and Decimal Minutes. You might wish to do that conversion and investigate the precise coordinates which are in the same general area as the cache by the bridge.

[+Konnarock Kid & Marge]

Those coordinates are not in "feet and inches." Those are the symbols for minutes and seconds.  There are 60 seconds in a minute and 60 minutes in a degree.  You can convert back and forth from that entirely legitimate method to other methods like decimal degrees or, as we use here on Geocaching.com, Degrees, Minutes and Decimal Minutes.  You might wish to do that conversion and investigate the precise coordinates which are in the same general area as the cache by the bridge.

Hey Keystone Approver. Thanks for the input. I took your advice and did the conversion. The coordinates converted to Degrees, Minutes and Decimal Minutes as used on Geocaching .com are: N 36. 20.506 W082. 12.723. I guess I just lucked out because doing the conversion and using the newly converted coordinates, it still takes you to the bridge.

I hope I didn't imply that the cache note corrdinates were wrong, they were unfamiliar to me and not the format used on Geocaching.com. Thanks to you I now know the difference.

P.S. I searched using the seconds and minutes (as seen in the cache note) and found that using those type of coordinates it takes you to within 232 feet of the Bridge cache.( the bridge is longer than that) Thanks

Edited March 16, 2005 by Konnarock Kid & Marge