+TrotzO Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 Like most of you I'm tired of the flotsam that usually ends up in caches, for the most part I'm happy just signing the log but occasionally we like to leave stuff that's of real value to people like free food coupons (Baskin Robbins, Mc Donalds etc......) or things people can get good use out of. Recently we left a vintage Ronson lighter in a cache <<http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=41fa0afc-31d1-4ec7-a1a2-6099e8bde308>> and it wasn't working by any stretch. Granted all it needed was some fluid but it's not like any kid was gonna pick it up and set the woods ablaze. I checked the guidelines for cache contents and they read "Please! No alcohol, tobacco, firearms, prescription or illicit drugs. Let's keep this safe and legal." Obviously, we aren't going to leave anything like that again, but what do YOU folks think about this? I don't know how to insert a link, I tried above. The cache is "Bakers Dozen" in zip 06878 Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 If it can't start a fire, its not dangerous. It was a safe and legal trade, so does not appear to violate the guidelines. Just don't try to take it on a plane. Quote Link to comment
Keystone Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 Actually, the Geocache Listing Requirements/Guidelines were updated last month to specifically include lighters on the list of items that shouldn't be left in a cache. The document you're reading from is outdated and is in the process of being rewritten. The guidelines control in the event of any inconsistency. Quote Link to comment
+TrotzO Posted March 15, 2005 Author Share Posted March 15, 2005 (edited) OK, chalk it up as us being new and not knowing any better. But in this circumstance the lighter was non-functioning which makes me feel a little better at least. Dam......so much for that torch welder I wuz gonna leave...... Edited March 15, 2005 by TrotzO Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 Bummer. Its against the guidelines. This actually reminds me of something a friend of mine told me yesterday. He works for an airline at the ticket counter. We were talking about TSA's ban on lighters. No longer can they be carried on your person, in your carryon or packed in your checked bags. He told me of a couple bags that were checked in and given to TSA for screening. One of them contained a brand new zippo that he received as a gift. It was still in its little box and had never been filled. TSA yanked it. Quote Link to comment
nobby.nobbs Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 so how long before the airlines handcuff all passengers as they get onboard, prefer naked so that no one can hide anything? chain us all into the seats until we land? cattle class travel! they've proved a plastic knife/fork just as dangerous as anything else. rules are getting a little silly. i can see the idea of no lighters in caches though. most will have some fuel in better safe than sorry. Quote Link to comment
+JohnnyVegas Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 He told me of a couple bags that were checked in and given to TSA for screening. One of them contained a brand new zippo that he received as a gift. It was still in its little box and had never been filled. TSA yanked it. This just goes to show you how stupid a lot of the TSA garbage is, you can not take a non working lighter, I guess they figure you can fill the lighter with fliud from the cigar store on the plane. It's like the ban on nail files, after the screener take your nail file you can buy one with the name of the city you are leaving at the gift store that you visit while you are waiting to get on the plane. Quote Link to comment
the james gang Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Actually, the Geocache Listing Requirements/Guidelines were updated last month to specifically include lighters on the list of items that shouldn't be left in a cache. The first four words are "use your common sense". Pardon my spanish but most caches are filled with cheapo crapo and finding an unused ronson lighter would make my day. tjg Quote Link to comment
+Greymane Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 The first four words are "use your common sense". Sounds like sage advice to me. I have seen things that are far less desirable than an empty lighter, but are not on the new list. You can't cover it all, so perhaps, "use your common sense" should suffice. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 (edited) From the Geocacher's Creed (mine, not that other one): When placing or seeking geocaches, I will: 1) Use my brain. ... Edited March 16, 2005 by sbell111 Quote Link to comment
nobby.nobbs Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 the only problem with foolproof plans are that fools are very adaptable. out of every 1000 people there's always going to be one idiot without common sense who'll leave the hunting knife in a cache and see nothing wrong with it. yeah i'd love to find a vintage zippo. but i don't want to risk my daughter finding a working one whilst i'm not looking. Quote Link to comment
+TetrAmigos Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Sorry to hear that lighters can't be allowed in caches, but I do understand. 99.98 percent of all cachers would certainly trade responsibly with items like this, but it only takes one missuse to bring negative attention to our hobby. Quote Link to comment
+TetrAmigos Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 (edited) (double posted, sorry!) Edited March 17, 2005 by acPilot Quote Link to comment
the james gang Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 the only problem with foolproof plans are that fools are very adaptable. out of every 1000 people there's always going to be one idiot without common sense who'll leave the hunting knife in a cache and see nothing wrong with it. yeah i'd love to find a vintage zippo. but i don't want to risk my daughter finding a working one whilst i'm not looking. Point well taken. I guess thats the other side of that "coin" I hear so much about. tjg Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 An empty lighter has none of the issues that a full lighter contains. I would not think twice about leaving an empty one. However because I pull out Bic's without giving it a second thought I'd put a note on the empty one saying it's empty. I doubt the rule was created out of fear of empty vintage lighters. The ban most likely because a blanket ban is easier to work with than debating the finer meaning of what empty really is. But that's speculation on my part. Quote Link to comment
mwenechanga Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 I used to tell my tech students not to unplug ps/2 mice while the computer was on, (since that can fry the mouse and/or mouse port) but that usb mice are hot-swappable. After about a week, they went from only usb to hot-swapping all. Now the rule is, "Computers must be off before moving any mice." With the hidden caviat, "those students who know what they are doing, will not get in trouble for hotswapping a usb mouse." So if I found an empty marked vintage lighter, it would be fine. A bic? No. Rules are made to be bent, by those who understand why we even have the rule. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Actually, the Geocache Listing Requirements/Guidelines were updated last month to specifically include lighters on the list of items that shouldn't be left in a cache. The document you're reading from is outdated and is in the process of being rewritten. The guidelines control in the event of any inconsistency. Sheesh, in two years that list is going to be 10 pages long. I think I'll continue to use my common sense and my common sense tells me that an empty Zippo is a great trade item. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Are flares still OK? Quote Link to comment
+Night Stalker Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Since vintage lighters are obsiously not allowed you can mail them all to me. If you need an address I will be glad to provide it for you. I also take all those forbidden knifes. Quote Link to comment
+Prime Suspect Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Is a lighter that doesn't light, a lighter? Last time I bought lighter fluid (for one of those old-fashion pocket hand-warmers), I had to show photo ID, and the clerk had to get it from a locked cabinet and bring it to the register. I noticed that the flints were behind lock & key, too. Quote Link to comment
+fly46 Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 the only problem with foolproof plans are that fools are very adaptable. out of every 1000 people there's always going to be one idiot without common sense who'll leave the hunting knife in a cache and see nothing wrong with it. yeah i'd love to find a vintage zippo. but i don't want to risk my daughter finding a working one whilst i'm not looking. Or, as the saying goes... Make something idiot proof and they'll make a better idiot. Quote Link to comment
+Pasha Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Yes - all those warning labels on everything now, keeping people from doing the most idiotic things, are there because someone did do those idiotic things. I would hope most people just use common sense about things like this. I'm certainly not going to complain about a vintage lighter as a trade item, though a half-full Bic would get dumped in the CITO bag. Quote Link to comment
JohnX Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 By specifically and deliberately banning any item from caches that could be considered troublesome, the creators of policy at Groundspeak have given property managers a powerful tool to allow geocaching on the property they control. I value the ability to hide a cache at an interesting site far more than anyone's desire to leave a cheap pen knife in a plastic jug hidden in the woods. Is it lame that you should not leave a lighter in a cache? Yes it is. However, even more lame is having geocaching banned on public property in an entire town because of a story about a kid finding a lighter in a cache. One of the first caches I placed was almost the cause for getting geocaching banned from hundreds of acres of very nice property in Massachusetts. I personally met with two different land managers for the property before they adopted a "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy for geocaching. They rely on the self policing nature of geocachers to keep caches risk free. Why risk the enjoyment that many other people will have finding a cache because you want to leave an inappropriate item? Do I find "the rules" lame? Yes I do. But please find my caches. I think you will enjoy them. Quote Link to comment
+1NatureMom Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 IT'S ME......I took THE lighter in question out of the BAKERS DOZEN cache. I actually took it out of my 7 year old daughter's hands. It is silver & shinny; her 1st thought was that it is a T.B. tag, then she started to fiddle with it. Looking at it, I kinda thought it was vintage & meant as swag; I was hoping it was empty & it is. I knew you were a newbie so I did not put up a fuss. However, it was left in the cache next to the barbie & spiderman McToys at a location that is at lil league field with a playground as stated on the cache page=a great kids cache. The cache owner is not that active & has not updated his page with attributes, therefore, the obvious states itself. IMO, swag items of this vintage 'nature' should be in caches with different terrain & equal swag. Before I mail it to NightStalker, I have to question his intentions! Quote Link to comment
nobby.nobbs Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Since vintage lighters are obsiously not allowed you can mail them all to me. If you need an address I will be glad to provide it for you. I also take all those forbidden knifes. not a bad idea in a way. but send them to me instead. Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Ahhh. Zippo lighters. The click of the cap when you stylishly flip it. The wonderful smell of the fluid. The... wait a minute. I gave up smoking 11 years ago. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Ahhh. Zippo lighters. The click of the cap when you stylishly flip it. The wonderful smell of the fluid. The... wait a minute. I gave up smoking 11 years ago. Funny. My dad has smoked forever (it will kill him soon, of this I am sure). He has always had a zippo. I hate the stench of cigs, but I've always had an affinity for a nice zippo. Quote Link to comment
silverwolfe Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 other odd memories.... my 25 yr old son, who was not raised around cig smokers, has loved zippos since probly 10yr old!! I never could figure out why..... sorry, digressing from thread..... Quote Link to comment
Shoobie & the Sand Crabs Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 I dunno we put A used and unfunctioning lighter in ther fire once(hey I'm tohe second top pyro in m,y boy scout troop) it blew up so I don't know if that is a good idea. Quote Link to comment
Black Mage Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Personally I don't see what the big deal is with knifes and lighters in caches. If the lighter is empty (and not a Bic but rather a good lighter like a Zippo) and the knife is folded or has a sheath on it and they are not in caches that a child could find, say on a 3.5 or 4 star terrain cache, then I have no problems with them. Heck, I'd like to find more stuff like that. Quote Link to comment
nobby.nobbs Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 Personally I don't see what the big deal is with knifes and lighters in caches. If the lighter is empty (and not a Bic but rather a good lighter like a Zippo) and the knife is folded or has a sheath on it and they are not in caches that a child could find, say on a 3.5 or 4 star terrain cache, then I have no problems with them. Heck, I'd like to find more stuff like that. this would fall into the should be ok with common sense category. and fall foul of people don't have common sense fence! nothing to stop kids doing the harder caches. cache rating are subjective. what one thinks is 4 could be anothers 3. i never let me 6 year old open the cache or rummage without having a look first but others might. safer to have blanket ban than just suggesting it might be better not to. Quote Link to comment
+Ed & Julie Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 About a year and a half ago, I placed a very nice zippo lighter in a cache as a trade item. The lighter had no fluid, but was brand new (a $25 zippo with a cool hiking design on the side). I thought it was a fantastic trade item left in a cache that I enjoyed very much...I got flamed (pun intended) by a cacher for not reading the "guidelines". I still think a zippo (without fluid) is an outstanding trade item...beats a golf ball or an expired ice cream coupon any day Ed Quote Link to comment
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