So Where Are The Explorists 500 And 600??

[+bullit]

Ahhh bummer, thanks everyone for the quick responses. Time to get working on dividing up my databases in GSAK. Let's hope that gets fixed in an update later on.

[+EScout]

Another annoying feature of the Geocache Manager is that it can only send the geocache file directly to the eXplorist memory after generation of the file. You cannot generate the file and save it on your computer for transfer later. This means that if you are at your office, working on Pocket Queries, and saving stuff on your Flash memory stick to take home, you can't do a geocache file unless you have your eXplorist with you.........

[robertlipe]

Sounds like a problem likely to be solved by a programmer not entirely unlike the aforementioned one.

[+EScout]

Sounds like a problem likely to be solved by a programmer not entirely unlike the aforementioned one. 

Yes, I am glad you inferred that from what I implied.

[+northernpenguin]

Another thing that set me off about the Geocache manager is simply the lack of warnings about stunts like this. I found myself in an area today with a PDA on low batteries and then I discovered that 10 of the caches in the area I was planning to hit were not in my eXplorist.

 

The least they could do in the program is WARN when dropping 300 waypoints in the transfer. The only message I get when I dump 500 waypoints is "Transfer completed successfully". Bad, bad UI there.

 

I'm looking forward to any developer fixes that pop up. In the meantime, I find myself reading the GPX schema and wondering just what those completed .gs files look like from a programming point of view.

[+JohnnyVegas]

maybe it is were I am located, but I have always limited my cache files to about 100 may 120 caches in my Meridian. About 100 per region has been plenty for me.

I just do not understand the need to have 500 caches in one file. If loaded 500 caches in one file it would cover about three counties, and I just do not see myself covering 3 counties in one day or even one weekend.

 

Going from my Meridian to my eXplorist 500 has been very easy as far as setting up cache files.

Edited May 2, 2005 by JohnnyVegas

[robertlipe]

That feedback should go to Magellan. Shame on them for not polling the geocaching community for what we _really_ wanted in a "geocachcing manager". (I wasn't asked. Were you?)

 

The GPX schema is pretty complete. The Groundspeak extended namespace is less so. The .gs files seem to be kind of a wierd intersection of things that isn't totally grounded in a geocachers needs. For example, why 200 points without warnings when duplicate names are found and without the container type?

 

If you'd like to discuss nybbles and bits (esp. after this week when I should have have hardware) feel free to start a thread on the gpsbabel-misc or gpsbabel-code mailing lists....

 

(But don't suffer from the delusion that we have Thales' attention.)

Edited May 2, 2005 by robertlipe

[robertlipe]

I just do not see myself covering 3 counties in one day or even one weekend

 

Well, JohnnyVegas, it's actually pretty easy to do even if you don't set out to do it. For discussions sake, we'll set aside the times I've gotten on a plane specificallty to geocache or the times I've driven hundreds of miles specifically to geocache. I recently covered three states in a day and did it without really trying to set any geocaching adventures. (You're free to look at my profile at this point and declare me a maniac. In 2002 when I was in the top 10 geocachers, I might have accepted that I was a maniac, but I've only been on a downward slide since then.)

 

I very recently had a chance of a lifetime to attend a concert that happened to be some 400 miles away from my home. I attended (and wildly enjoyed!) the concert but it ended late enough that I knew I'd drive back the next day. Since I had to take the next day off work anyway, so I geocached on the way back. Enter a hotel room. So I happened to pick up some forty-odd caches along a 450 mile (I took a detour) route on the way back. That just happened to span three states, forget about three counties. And that wasn't on a dedidcated geocaching trip.

 

My experieces really aren't _that_ atypical of a "cacher" these days. Yeah, sane people might not have signed four dozen logbooks on the way back home after such an event, but it's really not a wild and crazy thing these days. Even if you combine caching with other activities, three counties is hardly a reach.

 

Two hundred in a weekend just isn't a stretch goal that should be proscribed by software. Heck, there are numerous occurrences observed of two hundred finds in one day and I have a feeling that rates twice that in a weekend are likely to be observed within the next six weeks. (I found over 360 on a recent trip.)

 

The point really is that in a modern unit with as much as a gigabyte of storage that bank switching 200 at a time really is lame.

Edited May 2, 2005 by robertlipe

[+northernpenguin]

maybe it is were I am located, but I have always limited my cache files to about 100 may 120 caches in my Meridian. About 100 per region has been plenty for me.

I just do not understand the need to have 500 caches in one file. If loaded 500 caches in one file it would cover about three counties, and I just do not see myself covering 3 counties in one day or even one weekend.

 

Going from my Meridian to my eXplorist 500 has been very easy as far as setting up cache files.

It's quite simple; geocaching.com pocket queries produce 500 caches. Within 100km of my house are 1800 caches.

 

I travel a lot around the province by car and find it really handy to cache opportunistically when I see a cache near my route.

 

The multiple cache files thing is livable, but dropping data without warning the user is just bad programming. Things like that came up in grade 6 computer class nevermind a commercial product required to use a $500 GPS receiver...

[+northernpenguin]

That feedback should go to Magellan. Shame on them for not polling the geocaching community for what we _really_ wanted in a "geocachcing manager". (I wasn't asked. Were you?)

 

The GPX schema is pretty complete. The Groundspeak extended namespace is less so. The .gs files seem to be kind of a wierd intersection of things that isn't totally grounded in a geocachers needs. For example, why 200 points without warnings when duplicate names are found and without the container type?

 

If you'd like to discuss nybbles and bits (esp. after this week when I should have have hardware) feel free to start a thread on the gpsbabel-misc or gpsbabel-code mailing lists....

 

(But don't suffer from the delusion that we have Thales' attention.)

I think I might just head over there. I just opened the file up in notepad and there isn't a lot to these files (just CSV text). I'm curious and I'm going to tack two of these files together and see what happens....

[+northernpenguin]

Well, it looks like the eXplorist will only accept 200 waypoints in a GPX file. I added a few entries to the .gs file manually and the eXplorist ignored them. At least it didn't crash the unit. I would suggest to Magellan that they at least add the option of breaking a GPX file into multiple, smaller GPX files to the geocache manager.

 

From a possible program to replace the geocaching manager standpoint -- perhaps the missing fields like Cache Container and perhaps a GSAK style Found status (ie - two DNF's and two finds as "DDFF") could just be taked into the "Hint" field that is provided. Depending how big that field can get of course.

 

It would be really really nice if Magellan could think of these things the geocaching community has been asking for when they get around to updating the firmware on these new eXplorists. At the moment, while the geocache manager on the eXplorists is nice - I really like that I can turn these waypoints on and off separate from my 'other' waypoint data, like "Home" - I'll still be relying on a PDA to keep track of the actual cache information. I do like the geocaching.com icons.

 

Good luck trying a multi with the geocache manager alone.

[+D0T-C0M]

It would be nice if someone from magellan would even acknowledge that they are reading this at all. They should get more involved in the discussion.

[+embra]

I suspect that they do monitor at least some of these discussions, but they seem to have a policy against acknowledging such. There was a mention on the Yahoo explorist group that they were scrambling to get that 3xAAA clip available for those who were less than impressed with the Li-Ion battery, and it seems that discussions here were a prime candidate for the source of the feedback. Once on the Yahoo Meridian Group two Magellan emplyess exchanged messages about signing off; they apparently didn't realize their messages were going to the entire listserv.

 

I also remember one of the founders of the Yahoo Meriidian group relating a discussion he had with some Thales employees at a trade show. IIRC they said that that they did monitor the online traffic, and they complimented him on his knowledge and the FAQ he had helped assemble (i.e., they recognized his name). However, they confided that (at least at that time) they regarded a lot of the traffic as unreasonable whining...that probably wasn't their phrasing, but it was the impression I carried away. Frankly, I think a fair amount of the complaints voiced back then could be categorized as such, as it seemed to me that frequently people had unreasonble expectations of what the current GPS technology could provide. Still, there is a lot of valuable customer marketing information voiced here and elsewhere that they would be foolish to ignore.

 

I agree that I would like to have an acknowledgement that our grumblings--and our kudos, rare as they may be--were heard. One of my big Magellan beefs is the perception I have that they live in an ivory factory atop a distant hill. Would it kill them to have an ombudsman-type customer rep on these boards? I guess since Garimn and the other manufacturers also keep a low profile, they must have their reasons...probably along the lines of not wanting to be held to a casual statement that a company representative may have made online.

[+northernpenguin]

I'd bet the company lawyers told them not to be seen in the forums.

[+bullit]

If loaded 500 caches in one file it would cover about three counties, and I just do not see myself covering 3 counties in one day or even one weekend.

It's not so much trying to do 200 caches in a weekend it is the fact that with the sheer number of caches in the SF bay area, a 200 cache file has major and quite annoying limitations.

 

There was no error given when I loaded up a 500 cache gpx file that I had exceeded the 200 cache limit (still not sure if that is officially doumented in magellan's literature) and I only noticed that I had less than 500 caches uploaded when the nearest cache to my house was not showing up.

 

I routinely head over to the east bay, then the south bay and then the west side of the bay during the course of the weekend, or on a long drive to a hiking destination I can easily pass through many 200 cache zones. I will now have to maintain lots of smaller files to stay under the 200 cache limit which is a pain and eats up my queries.

 

It just seems to me to be common sense to allow unlimited size cache files with unlimited size storage. That was one of the main reasons I was upgrading from my Sportrak so I am less than impressed until someone comes up with some software to nullify this limitation.

[+JohnnyVegas]

I just do not see myself covering 3 counties in one day or even one weekend

 

Well, JohnnyVegas, it's actually pretty easy to do even if you don't set out to do it. For discussions sake, we'll set aside the times I've gotten on a plane specificallty to geocache or the times I've driven hundreds of miles specifically to geocache. I recently covered three states in a day and did it without really trying to set any geocaching adventures. (You're free to look at my profile at this point and declare me a maniac. In 2002 when I was in the top 10 geocachers, I might have accepted that I was a maniac, but I've only been on a downward slide since then.)

 

I very recently had a chance of a lifetime to attend a concert that happened to be some 400 miles away from my home. I attended (and wildly enjoyed!) the concert but it ended late enough that I knew I'd drive back the next day. Since I had to take the next day off work anyway, so I geocached on the way back. Enter a hotel room. So I happened to pick up some forty-odd caches along a 450 mile (I took a detour) route on the way back. That just happened to span three states, forget about three counties. And that wasn't on a dedidcated geocaching trip.

 

My experieces really aren't _that_ atypical of a "cacher" these days. Yeah, sane people might not have signed four dozen logbooks on the way back home after such an event, but it's really not a wild and crazy thing these days. Even if you combine caching with other activities, three counties is hardly a reach.

 

Two hundred in a weekend just isn't a stretch goal that should be proscribed by software. Heck, there are numerous occurrences observed of two hundred finds in one day and I have a feeling that rates twice that in a weekend are likely to be observed within the next six weeks. (I found over 360 on a recent trip.)

 

The point really is that in a modern unit with as much as a gigabyte of storage that bank switching 200 at a time really is lame.

Yes. But is easy to just set up PQ for geographic areas. While I do not have any PQ with more than 120 cached in them. I do have the set for the geographic lacations that I cache in Sacramento, Rancho Cordova, Rocklin, Marin county and so on. I guess I have 20 files in my explorist and Maridian which works out to about 2,000 caches, if I ever did that many in a weekend you would more than likely find me in the ER. for most cachers the explorist and Magellan file system should be just fine.

 

I have a feeling that much of the short falls we have seen from Magellan and Garmin over the years have to do with the bean counters that are focused on the bottom line. I am sure that Garmin or Magellan cold put out a GPS with every feature anyone could want, but at what price and how many people would buy at that price. While those of use that hang out in the forums may not have a problem with spending a few hundred dollars on a new GPS, we are not the typical GPS user, from years of selling GPSr, most GPS buyers on the retail level just do not go over the $200.00 price very offten. Thats why there are so many Garmin Legends and Magellan Sport trak maps being used.

[+Doc-Dean]

What size card are people using for storage. I'm thinking of a 512 MB card. Am I over-shooting or under-estimating?

 

I'd like to store the entire state of Florida on the card and still have room to add other areas as I travel. Right now I can get all of florida in 5 pocket queries.

[+embra]

Florida need about 50MB for a DirectRoute or a Topo3D map. I've been using a 256MB card about half filled for a good while, so I would personally regard 512 as a little overkill. However, it depends on your use and on the price you're able to locate...You might find that 512 hits the sweet spot best (although I think the smaller cards are doing a bit better yet).

[+northernpenguin]

I don't know about Florida, but I've got most of Ontario on my 256MB card, with half of the card left to spare. That's Topo and Directroute maps BTW.

 

I have a new card on order though, as another factor has come into play. Namely the speed of the card. It's pretty annoying waiting for a map to load while the other cachers are 100M down the trail.

 

I tend to use DirectRoute to get me to the caching area, then I like to flip over to Topo and get the more accurate trail/stream information.

 

The 66X card in my PDA can handle 9MB/second - which means the average map should take no more than 2 seconds to load from the card. I'll know on Wednesday when the card gets here. Right now I can be up to a minute or so loading a large map from the 'plain old blue SanDisk'.

[+Marky]

If loaded 500 caches in one file it would cover about three counties, and I just do not see myself covering 3 counties in one day or even one weekend.

It's not so much trying to do 200 caches in a weekend it is the fact that with the sheer number of caches in the SF bay area, a 200 cache file has major and quite annoying limitations.

 

There was no error given when I loaded up a 500 cache gpx file that I had exceeded the 200 cache limit (still not sure if that is officially doumented in magellan's literature) and I only noticed that I had less than 500 caches uploaded when the nearest cache to my house was not showing up.

 

I routinely head over to the east bay, then the south bay and then the west side of the bay during the course of the weekend, or on a long drive to a hiking destination I can easily pass through many 200 cache zones. I will now have to maintain lots of smaller files to stay under the 200 cache limit which is a pain and eats up my queries.

 

It just seems to me to be common sense to allow unlimited size cache files with unlimited size storage. That was one of the main reasons I was upgrading from my Sportrak so I am less than impressed until someone comes up with some software to nullify this limitation.

I bet we could bribe Clyde into adding a feature to the GSAK that would spit out a set of GPX files that each contain only 200 caches. The kicker would be how to decide what sort makes sense for spilting the caches into groups of 200.

 

--Marky

[flir67]

does anybody know of anysoftware on the net thats capible of converting the mapsend topo maps into the directroute format so we can put them on the explorist?

[robertlipe]

I'd overshoot on this. Maps don't get smaller over time either via upgrades or collected routes you travel.

 

OTOH, The price of SD cards is falling like a rock. http://www.pricewatch.com/h/mn.aspx?i=226&f=1 shows a 512 isn't twice as much as two 256's today, but by the time you've loaded DirectRoute Version 9 (that still has the backlight bug...) and Topo4D on your 256s and are starting to feel the crunk, the new 4GB cards will be cereal toys...

 

You can get some idea of map size in my FAQ cited below...

[+embra]

I have a new card on order though, as another factor has come into play. Namely the speed of the card. It's pretty annoying waiting for a map to load while the other cachers are 100M down the trail.

 

<snip>

 

The 66X card in my PDA can handle 9MB/second - which means the average map should take no more than 2 seconds to load from the card. I'll know on Wednesday when the card gets here. Right now I can be up to a minute or so loading a large map from the 'plain old blue SanDisk'.

I'd be grateful if you could do comparative tests with the two cards. My impression so far from reports has been that it doesn't make too much of a difference.

[+embra]

I bet we could bribe Clyde into adding a feature to the GSAK that would spit out a set of GPX files that each contain only 200 caches. The kicker would be how to decide what sort makes sense for spilting the caches into groups of 200.

Might need a few options on this, but compass quadrants makes sense to me. I broke my 600 not founds into this kind of package. If I make one file N, NE, and E while the next is E, SE and S, I get some redundancy. However, I see this as desirable since I didn't want a sharp dividing line between file content.

[+embra]

does anybody know of anysoftware on the net thats capible of converting the mapsend topo maps into the directroute format so we can put them on the explorist?

No, no way to do this to date. The closest thing is to piggy-back the topo lines into DirectRoute, as mentioned in this thread.

[+D0T-C0M]

Glad someone mentioned this, I read somewhere before that these cards are not all equal when it comes to speed. A couple questions for those in the know.

 

What's the price difference between a cheap SD card and a faster more expensive one( same size)?

 

What specifications are important to consider that relate to speed of a SD card when you want a super fast card?

 

Is the speed(ie price) the main consideration when choosing between same sized SD cards?

 

ch33rs

D0T-C0M

[robertlipe]

Test reports from the various yahoogroups show the faster cards make no difference whatsoever in the Meridians.

 

I don't know that it's been measured to see if the faster cards make any difference in Explorist.

 

[ afterthought ]

 

Writing flash memory takes a lot longer than reading it and improving that write time is the focus of these new "fast" cards. Cameras dominate the memory bus with writes. A GPS in normal use will dominate it with reads. So it makes sense that - even if they have the needed electronics and code to support it - the effects would be less visible.

Edited May 2, 2005 by robertlipe

[BobbyC]

Larger memory cards take more power to run. I'm not sure about GPS devices but the sweet spot for digital cameras is 512mb. I now use my 512mb CF card in my camera and use the 2gb CF card as a backup.

 

I have a 512mb SD and a 256mb SD from my Ipaq. I was thinking of using my 512 for the 600 that's being delivered tomorrow () but after reading this forum, looks like I'll be fine with the 256mb that was collecting dust on my desk.

[+Doc-Dean]

I'd overshoot on this. Maps don't get smaller over time either via upgrades or collected routes you travel.

 

OTOH, The price of SD cards is falling like a rock. http://www.pricewatch.com/h/mn.aspx?i=226&f=1 shows a 512 isn't twice as much as two 256's today, but by the time you've loaded DirectRoute Version 9 (that still has the backlight bug...) and Topo4D on your 256s and are starting to feel the crunk, the new 4GB cards will be cereal toys...

 

You can get some idea of map size in my FAQ cited below...

I quickly read over your Direct Route FAQ. I'll read it again in detail later when I have the time... Thanks for the great FAQ BTW!

 

Are alot of the DR problems still present in the Explorist series?

By that I mean the double GoTos, the reset settings and the backlight problem?

[+embra]

Are alot of the DR problems still present in the Explorist series?

By that I mean the double GoTos, the reset settings and the backlight problem?

It's better. The settings are put back the way you had them after the route is discontinued--even if you turn the unit off while the route is active. The backlight still comes on at every turn, but the 30-second light timer makes this acceptable to me (and for the color screens, you often need the backlight on to see the screen clearly).

 

On the need for double goto's...you still have to do things twice. Although the route may not necessarily complete depending how far away the destination is from the road, you will likely have to do some button-punching to shift from a street route to a point-to-point route.

[robertlipe]

Today's report is brought to you by the letter "M".

 

This report is explictly not about Maps. It's about treating the device as a disk so it can be read and written by programs like GPSBabel to manipulate waypoints, tracks, routes, and geocaches.

 

 

Magellan has been helpful to me in getting the code going for GPSBabel. Details to follow.

 

Monkeybrad has not reclaimed the iBook he'd loaned me for the Garmin/USB effort (which, as an aside, is still spinning around in circles) The good news is that on 10.3.8 and 10.3.9 (it updated while I checked it) the explorist appears as a viable mounted volume in /Volumes/Untitled.

 

My systems that I had within reach (Linux and UnixWare) both identify the explorist as a USB Ma** Storage Device and will mount it as a DOS (FAT32) filesystem in accordance with their respective traditions.

 

Ma** storage mode is supported as subclass 6 (SCSI command set) .

 

Megabits/sec is sure to be asked. It presents itself as a full speed (14Mbit/sec) device and not a high speed (480 Mbit) device.

 

Modem abstract command set is how it presents itself on the bus in NMEA mode. This is very wise, as it means that OSes that can talk to (the closest thing USB has to a) standard modem or serial port will be able to talk to it. In Linux, just modprobe cdc-acm and POOF, you can read NMEA sentences from it:

$ cat /dev/usb/ttyACM0

$GPGSV,3,1,10,16,75,160,,01,52,107,,20,48,268,,25,45,054,*7D

$GPGSV,3,2,10,23,33,314,,14,13,122,,06,10,051,,03,07,170,*79

$GPGSV,3,3,10,13,04,309,,24,00,286,,,,,,,,,*7E

$PMGNST,01.49,2,F,675,05.8,+00000,20*57

$GPGSV,3,1,10,16,75,160,,01,52,107,,20,48,268,,25,45,054,*7D

$GPGSV,3,2,10,23,33,314,,14,13,122,,06,10,051,,03,07,170,*79

$GPGSV,3,3,10,13,04,309,,24,00,286,,,,,,,,,*7E

(UnixWare doesn't currently support serial USB thingies and I lack sufficient Mac Mojo to figure out how to do it there.

 

Methinks Magellan did exactly the right thing for compatibility on a USB interface and that users of non-Microsoft OSes will find life with these things to be less painful than with competing units. (You'll still have to borrow a PC for that initial SD load of your maps, though...but I said I wasn't going to talk about that.)

[robertlipe]

I also went at the cable with a DMM to see if I could unravel why there's the weird assymetry thing with it. Someone worked hard to make it do that.

 

Lookinag at the back of the unit, we'll number the pins like this:

!! 6 ... 1

5........... 2

!! 4 ... 3

 

1&4 are the USB data pins; they're electrically benign to swap. the USB spec is differential (like EIA 485) but it specifies absolute voltages in addition to the voltage difference which makes these signals non-interchangeable.

 

2 is USB negative power rail.

 

3 is USB positive power rail

 

5 is the coaxial cable (high current power jack) negative line.

 

6 is the coaxial cable (high current power jack) positive line.

 

The USB spec says thou shalt not consume more than 100mA in a non-enumerated state. Once you're enumerated, you may consume up to 500mA if you report it correctly in your power descriptors. The unit will likely operate on a half amp (the bottom two right pins) but surely wants more than that to charge the li-ion at more than a trickle. That's why it has two distinct power inputs. Internally there's likely some diode protection to be sure the unit can power from EITHER pair of inputs while ensuring that no VCC trickles from one source to the other. That's why it'll power (and potentially trickle charge the Li-Ion) either way but really show "charging" only while the high current source is connected to the high current pins.

 

The remaining mystery is why they chose to make this symmetric instead of keyed at all, and I'm guessing it has to do with cable exit position and future mounts/cradles, but that's just a guess at this time.

 

[ edit. dots inserted in ascii graph so web site won't reformat it ]

Edited May 4, 2005 by robertlipe

[+D0T-C0M]

A couple questions for clarification,

 

Are you saying that when the unit is plugged in upside down and showing "charging" on the unit, that it really doesn't have enough current to properly charge the Li-Ion battery off the usb @ 500mA?

 

What is the level of charging current required to charge the Li-ion battery?

 

I assume the GPS unit uses more than 100mA draw when its on, so am i correct in saying that the Li-Ion battery is slowly discharging when the plug is connected downwards and showing "external"?

 

PLease explain what you mean by the following:

 

"100mA in a non-enumerated state. Once you're enumerated, you may consume up to 500mA if you report it correctly in your power descriptors"

 

What exactly does non-enumerated and enumerated mean?

Edited May 4, 2005 by D0T-C0M

[robertlipe]

The 100/500 are the most USB guarantees. Any given USB implementation may provide more power than that. I'd expect something like a Boxwave Versacharger to put that out without a sweat. I'd certainly not expect copius power capacity from, say, a laptop going through a non-powered hub while running on battery.

 

I don't know what it takes to charge the Li-Ion at full tilt as I lack an ammeter with a scale that low. If the hardware guys thought they were within the bounds of powering it solely via USB, they'd have done so and saved cost on the cable, the spare pins, and the power supply, right?

 

I would guess it pulls < 100mA w/o the backlight. OTOH, when it's powered on, it's probable that the host will enumerate it and change the state to powered anyway. Look at the measurements of the Meridian in my FAQ to get some idea of what the older units pulled.

 

Host enumeration is the process of device discovery and 'bonding' it with the system.

 

A USB target is guaranteed 100mA from the bus until the device is configured. This is to let self-powered devices be configured. High power (typically thiings with motors) devices can't pull > 100mA until the host says it's OK to do so. It has to check the current power budget to be sure it has enough to stably supply ll the targets. Once the host sends the set configuration request to the target, the device can pull up to the amount of current it specified in its own configuration descriptor.

 

You can safely guess that this part of the spec isn't exactly well exercised by things without processors or "real" USB controllers. There are a depressing number of places that liberties can be taken in all this. (You can be pretty sure that USB coffee cup warmer you got for Christmas doesn't have a "USB Certified" logo on it.)

 

The punchline in all this seems to be that the hardware was designed with two distinctly different power input pairs and they went to some effort to make them symmetric.

 

Disclaimer: I'm a software guy with more than a little electronics background, but I reserve the right to be wrong....

[+ScottOSki]

Excellent detective work!

 

Your explanation would explain why the GPS does not seem to charge while connected to a cigarette lighter USB adapter while sitting in the swivel mount (cord connected in down position). However, if the unit is turned off, then it charges just fine. I'm not sure what the output of my USB charger is - I will look tonight. It may not have enough mA to both charge and power, just as a standard USB port. I will also look at the secifications for the AC charger provided. I'm guessing it's output is something greater than 500 mA which is why it is able to both power and charge at the same time.

 

The next obvious question is then if I came up with a USB cigarette charger rated for higher mA would I be able to power and charge at the same time, even if the unit did not show "charging". It seems to me that the charging indication must by tied to pins 5/6 and will never show regardless of the voltage/amperage applied to pins 2/3. Perhaps it shows charging any time it detects a certain voltage across pins 5/6?

 

Additionally, I don't think Magellan ever intended for the cord to be attached to the unit in the "upside down" configuration. The swivel mount absolutely forces the "correct" configuration of cord down. The old 3XX, Sporttracks, Meridians, etc. all have there cords facing down. By going to a square connector with 6 contacts it seems to be just dumb luck that the connector can be screwed on in two configurations. I'm not sure we are hurting anything by connecting the cord in the "upside down" configurationg to power/charge, but I'm not sure we are gaining anything either. Even if the unit shows charging with a USB charger attached in the upside down position, if the mA output isn't high enough to both power and charge (as you discussed above) it may show charging even though it is only trickle charging, or maybe not charging at all??

 

More things to look at or experiment with tonight....

 

ScottOski

[+Doc-Dean]

This is very interesting stuff... I definately would like to know if a stronger USB charger could power and charge the unit simultaneously.

 

Do I understand correctly that even if it does, it will not show that it is charging on the unit.

 

Also, I don't understand the cord up / cord down thing. Could someone explain the differences.

 

Thanks!

[+D0T-C0M]

Also, I don't understand the cord up / cord down thing. Could someone explain the differences.

Cord up and cord down refers to the orientation of the "L" shaped data/power cable connector. The connecter is not keyed so that you can plug the cable with the cord either pointing up towards the top of the GPS turning the connector around 180 degrees you can plug it with the cable pointing towarss the bottom of the GPS. That why Robertlipe said the connection was symetrical.

[+D0T-C0M]

Additionally, I don't think Magellan ever intended for the cord to be attached to the unit in the "upside down" configuration.  The swivel mount absolutely forces the "correct" configuration of cord down.  The old 3XX, Sporttracks, Meridians, etc. all have there cords facing down.  By going to a square connector with 6 contacts it seems to be just dumb luck that the connector can be screwed on in two configurations.

I have to doubt that it is dumb luck otherwise they would have keyed it to prevent it from doing this. The fact that they didn't plus the fact that the connection is symetrical leads me to agree with robertlipe that it was done on purpose. Maybe consideration for POE (power over ethernet) or for future bracket and/or changing cables.

Edited May 4, 2005 by D0T-C0M

[+Photom]

Back to the original subject of the thread - from the TIGERGPS web site:

 

SHIPPING FRIDAY, MAY 6 - (for the Explorist 600's)

 

What will Marky do??

Edited May 4, 2005 by Photom

[robertlipe]

I'm not sure what the output of my USB charger is - I will look tonight.  It may not have enough mA to both charge and power, just as a standard USB port.

For something like a cigarette lighter adapter, it's surely "enough". The problem is that this scheme seems to be pinned to sipping power through the USB connector and not drinking big gulps. So even if you have a fire truck full of water, it knows to sip through the straw on pins 2/3 and only gulp from the hose on 5/6 because it knows that the straw (2/3) is normally connected to a cyclists water bottle of power and not a fire truck. (OK, my analogy here isn't without flaws, but it basically works.)

 

Your guess is that it displays "charging" when sensing power on 5/6 (hereby named the 'big gulp' lines :-) would match mine.

 

I will also look at the secifications for the AC charger provided.  I'm guessing it's output is something greater than 500 mA which is why it is able to both power and charge at the same time.

1 amp. (1000mA)

 

Additionally, I don't think Magellan ever intended for the cord to be attached to the unit in the "upside down" configuration. 

I don't think it's an accident. Someone tried pretty hard to make that symmetric.

 

 

Therefore, if I'm right about all this, and you really knew you had sufficient power in your car (which for something like the boxwave, you almost surely do) there is something you can do without cutting up your cable. Make a USB to coaxial/inline plug that would plug into the cable where the power supply would normally go. (I'm intentionally not giving a lot of details in the hopes that anyone taking this idea and running with it will have enough attention to detail to pay attention to polarity, regulation, and assembly to not slag thier units.) Of course, at that point, the whole USB plug is merely a packaged convenience for a plug and a regulator. If you could find something like Radio Shack part number 273-1811 (5v would be better than 4.5, but it'd probably do) that had the right end and right polarity and could deliver an amp or so, you could probably charge and use it at the same time with the cable that shipped with the unit.

 

Dollars to donuts when we see an auto power cable from Magellan it'll deliver power on those very "big gulp" lines.

[+embra]

Back to the original subject of the thread - from the TIGERGPS web site:

 

SHIPPING FRIDAY, MAY 6 - (for the Explorist 600's)

 

What will Marky do??

I think he should cancel his order and put a new one in with boatfix.com (the place where I originally ordered and now apparently isn't listing any Magellans on their site). The man is either a saint or a masochist.

 

Edit: I'll try to emulate Marky's patience by waiting for the Magellan Big Gulp cord. I think I'm going to find I've got a 12v USB charger I really won't be using that much...at least it only cost me $5.

Edited May 4, 2005 by embra

[+D0T-C0M]

I am getting my e600 on Friday. www.gpscentral.com started shipping e600 out tuesday.

[+Doc-Dean]

Also, I don't understand the cord up / cord down thing.  Could someone explain the differences.

Cord up and cord down refers to the orientation of the "L" shaped data/power cable connector. The connecter is not keyed so that you can plug the cable with the cord either pointing up towards the top of the GPS turning the connector around 180 degrees you can plug it with the cable pointing towarss the bottom of the GPS. That why Robertlipe said the connection was symetrical.

I understand that part, but what is the difference between plugging it in with an up orientation versus a down orientation. I am assuming that it does something different if you plug it in cord down that it does not do when its plugged in cord up. What is it that is different?

 

I am not an engineer so I am a bit naive on some of these things...

Edited May 4, 2005 by Doc-Dean

[+Doc-Dean]

Just got my 600 today...

 

Wow! So far I am so not impressed. ok, ok I've only had the thing for 30 minutes...

 

My first impression was, whoa that's small. The color screen is sharp and clear. I also noticed that it only has 3 navigation screens. This was not something I was aware of in my research. My old unit is a Merigreen so naturally I was expecting to see the same (or more, or better) navigation displays. Granted I didn't use the other ones very often but they did get used...

[+ScottOSki]

Therefore, if I'm right about all this, and you really knew you had sufficient power in your car (which for something like the boxwave, you almost surely do) there is something you can do without cutting up your cable.  Make a USB to coaxial/inline plug that would plug into the cable where the power supply would normally go.  (I'm intentionally not giving a lot of details in the hopes that anyone taking this idea and running with it will have enough attention to detail to pay attention to polarity, regulation, and assembly to not slag thier units.)    Of course, at that  point, the whole USB plug is merely a packaged convenience for a plug and a regulator.  If you could find something like Radio Shack part number  273-1811 (5v would be better than 4.5, but it'd probably do)  that had the right end and right polarity and could deliver an amp or so, you could probably charge and use it at the same time with the cable that shipped with the unit.

 

After getting my unit (and after buying the USB cigarette charger, unfortunately) I though much the same thing. There are many 12V "universal" car adapters available that should easily allow one to match plug type, polarity, etc. and fit into the "Y" on the cable. I may even have one at home that I can try. The polarity for the wall charger should be shown right on it.

 

I think your thoughts that pins 2/3 only allow limited mA while 5/6 allow "big gulps" are right on. For those who need to charge and power at the same time in the vehicle and can't wait for the official Magellan version, the above might be your best bet. Use caution to choose the correct plug, voltage and polarity - don't fry your unit and don't try this if you don't know what your doing!!

 

However, I'm still not that worried about charging and powering while in the vehicle. Since the battery has 16 plus hours of life alone and when in the swivel mount it isn't using battery power (or charging!) the battery life on a typical day of caching for me is (much) more than adequate.

 

ScottOski

[+ScottOSki]

I am assuming that it does something different if you plug it in cord down that it does not do when its plugged in cord up. What is it that is different?

 

In the up configuration the USB data transfer will not work, it must be down.

 

For the power/charging, look at Robert's post above.

 

ScottOski

[+Jamie Z]

I also noticed that it only has 3 navigation screens.  This was not something I was aware of in my research.

Hmm.. your research must have been rather thin. We've discussed the lack of screens at length on several different current threads, including this one. This post goes into detail about the inadequacy and even has pictures of the four main screens.

 

I have to admit that although I still miss the other customizable screens, and I still think that Magellan made a serious error by omitting them, I have reluctantly found that while using DirectRoute software, I am less inclined to need the data I used to want displayed. It's very frustrating not to have the array of options that I used to have on my Meridian, but I'm getting a little more used to it. Still holding out that Magellen fixes this oversight in an upcoming firmware update.

 

As far as the cords, I would hope that the OEM cord will be able to both power the unit externally, and charge the unit while on. The capability is there in the GPS, the cord just needs to be designed correctly.

 

Jamie

Edited May 4, 2005 by Jamie Z

[+embra]

This looks like a good time and place for me to mention that I'm over my initial reaction to the joystick. It now feels natural to navigate the menus with the thing, and since it protrudes a bit more than the other keys it's an easy thing to click when needed.

 

I still concur with your assessment above about the screens, Jamie. I want someplace where I can see at least another two data fields, but I'm not gonna lose sleep over it in the meantime.

 

I can allow that if you weren't prepared for it, Doc-Dean, you'd feel a little short-changed by the screen offerings. SInce they *do* have that much more on the Meridians, it seems not unreasonable that they'll show up on the explori eventually.

[+Doc-Dean]

Hmm.. your research must have been rather thin. We've discussed the lack of screens at length on several different current threads, including this one.

Actually almost all of my research was done independently of these forums. Unfortunately that was my mistake and I have since found the value of the information in this forum. I beg forgiveness...

 

Its not an "end of the world" problem, but I agree that it's a judgement error on the part of Magellan to exclude that feature.

[+Stunod]

This looks like a good time and place for me to mention that I'm over my initial reaction to the joystick. It now feels natural to navigate the menus with the thing, and since it protrudes a bit more than the other keys it's an easy thing to click when needed.

 

I still concur with your assessment above about the screens, Jamie. I want someplace where I can see at least another two data fields, but I'm not gonna lose sleep over it in the meantime.

 

I can allow that if you weren't prepared for it, Doc-Dean, you'd feel a little short-changed by the screen offerings. SInce they *do* have that much more on the Meridians, it seems not unreasonable that they'll show up on the explori eventually.

I'm used to the new button/click stick layout and the new screens. While I'm not really upset about the fewer screens, I am disappointed that the projection feature was bypassed. Boy, I hope this is one of the first "fixes" in the firmware.