Capture The Flag W/ Travel Bugs

[+avroair]

Oh, that's just a sneaky use of a loophole. Yes, a neutral party moved the flag and yes, it's currently out of bounds. But how did it get in an unapproved JMBella cache unless he had a hand in it? Somebody get me the LI flag and I'll put it in Are You Crazy?

The difficulty is too high for Are You Crazy to be considered.

[+Resolution]

Oh drat. I never saw anything about a difficulty rating, just a terrain rating of less than 4. What's the difficulty rating max?

[+Tiffany's Slaves]

All of the whining woke me up.

 

GCxx=Geocache

TCxx=Terracache

OK... this leads one to believe that the flag is hidden in a "Terracache" for which you have to get "Sponsored". That is why the cache is not listed on Geocaching.com.

 

Fine: Once The Head Slave gets his hooks into the LI flag, it will go into a new cache listed on the TLS site (Tiffany Listing Service) and planted in say Canada. To get access, you'll have to be nominated by at least 4 cachers that are known to Tiffany. (this will probably add at least a MONTH into the process).

 

Or we can agree to follow the rules - keep them on LI or NJ

And furthermore - add a rule to only use caches that everyone has reasonable access to (ie: listed on Geocaching.com).

Edited April 6, 2005 by Tiffany's Slaves

[+Squealy]

Knowing SD, he would hide the LI flag in a Terracache too - not that big of a deal since a number of prominent NJ cachers are on that site as well. Just make it only geocaches from here on in.

[+Packanack]

And people wonder why there are lawyers

Edited April 6, 2005 by Packanack

[+avroair]

Well, he isn't suppose to pick up both caches at once. Please keep them to geocaches from now on.

 

And I thought Lawn Island was bad, now I have to goto Statten Island to pick up the flag? No thanks.

Guess it's staying there a while.

[+JMBella]

Well, he isn't suppose to pick up both caches at once. Please keep them to geocaches from now on.

 

And I thought Lawn Island was bad, now I have to goto Statten Island to pick up the flag? No thanks.

Guess it's staying there a while.

No it's not. Here is the cache in question. JMB's Moving Violation. I picked up both the cache (it's a moving cache) and the NJ Flag!!!

 

For the record, Macatac and I were planning to make the trip to Brian's cache tomorrow to pick it up. Today, when I got the email from my watch list I drove 62 miles to SI to grab it.

 

The flag was placed in a GEOcache less than 25 miles from where I picked it up (23.6 miles). I'm logging it now.

Edited April 6, 2005 by JMBella

[+JMBella]

Or we can agree to follow the rules - keep them on LI or NJ

We, Long Island and New Jersey, have agreed to follow the rules.

[+The Frantic Cachers]

just out of curiosity...how is this going to effect the scoring? does Long Island get penalized for being a clever jack a**?

[+avroair]

Nah... Joe gets 1 pt for picking up opponent's cache. And 2 for placing it in his own.

[+avroair]

So much for the 25 mile rule? Norvin Green to Staten Island is less than 25 miles away! Wow!

[+Squealy]

Load up the tanks with that cheaply priced Jersey gas b/c the flag is heading east tomorrow.

[+The Frantic Cachers]

I sense a road trip brewing.....

[+JMBella]

The scoring seems to be off a bit.

[+avroair]

The scoring seems to be off a bit.

It has been corrected.

[+avroair]

To follow the scoring you can visit the: Zebra Official Scoreboard Bug

Edited April 8, 2005 by avroair

[+Team Rampant Lion]

Can someone clarify the mileage rule. The LI TB says this:

 

"A player can only move the opponent's flag up to 25 miles at a time and their own flag up to 10 miles."

 

The NJ TB does not and seems to have been moved more than 25 miles at least once. Is there a mileage rule or not? [it makes a BIG difference to my motivations - which are evil, of course]

Edited April 9, 2005 by Team Rampant Lion

[+JMBella]

The rule as stated on the LI Flag page are correct. When I picked up the flag it was in Staten Island. It was placed there by Splicingdan in a Terracache so it did not register as being dropped.

 

Retrieve it from a cache 4/6/2005  splicingdan retrieved it from Centurion  New Jersey    [visit log]

Oh how boring.

I expected some entertainment from this contest and just got tired of waiting. So, I decided to start the fun.

 

Since there were no rules against it, I have already placed the bug in a new cache - TCJP.

It's owned by JMBella and it's not meant for kids (not anymore at least).

Since I don't want to choose sides here (although I should favor NY) because I think that it will be more fun, I placed the TB in a neutral location here on SI.

 

I only moved the flag about 22 miles from where I picked it up.

 

I promise if anyone comes out to the Island to where either flag is, you will not be disappointed with the caches. Of coarse, you may not end up with the flag but you'll have fun caching anyway. Good luck.

[+Packanack]

makes a BIG difference to my motivations

Pulled the post

Edited April 9, 2005 by Packanack

[+briansnat]

I suspect the flag grab in the first instance was made by crossing property on Cresente Dr, as the stream crossing was not possible due to flood conditions.

 

He found it on the 6th which was several days after the flood. This stream will rise rapidly, but fall equally rapidly so crossing was probably possible by Wed. Using Crescent Dr would involve trespassing.

Edited April 9, 2005 by briansnat

[+JMBella]

makes a BIG difference to my motivations

Your motivations don't matter. the first move was + 30 miles , by a "neutral" , there is no such thing. He supposedly brings it to Staten Island but doesn't drop it, I am sure he handed it over to LI right then and there (terracache, my big beautiful butt). I suspect the flag grab in the first instance was made by crossing property on Cresente Dr, as the stream crossing was not possible due to flood conditions. NJ got screwed, so don't worry about what happens now. All bets are off, rules, there are no rules.

You don't know me well enough to make accusations. No one handed me the flag. No one cheated. I suggest you chill. It's a game. Put things in perspective for crying out loud. If this is going to cause tension then this game is over.

[+Resolution]

JMBella, I'm sure you can understand that not being able to track the path of the NJ flag on it's page causes things to become a bit suspect. Placing the flag in a non-Groundspeak cache just adds to the skepticism. However, cries of "cheater" are unnecessary. The fact that the "rules" are not clear due to discrepancies in the flags' rules listings doesn't help the situation. Can you guys please update the pages so that the rules read the same for both flags?

 

Things that are still open to interpretation:

 

Are non-Groundspeak caches fair game?

 

Is the mileage limit waived for a team retrieving their own flag from the other territoty (or from out of bounds)?

 

Can a flag be placed in a members only cache? A new, unapproved cache?

 

The terrain max is less than 4. How about the difficulty max?

 

The pages should be periodically updated to reflect these continuously changing rules.

[+briansnat]

The terrain max is less than 4. How about the difficulty max?

 

I think it was agreed that T/D should both be under 4

 

Are non-Groundspeak caches fair game?

 

I also think non GC.COM caches should be off limits because TB's can't be tracked on other sites. There is no way for many of us to figure out where a TB is if its in a non GC.COM cache.

 

BYW, I think Packanack was joking.

[+Packanack]

It was a tongue in cheek, but I pulled the post because it offended you. My apologies if it did. I mistakenly thought that a little good natured chiding would be taken as such. Believe me, I fully understand this is just a diversionary pasttime meant to be enjoyable and a little fun.

Edited April 9, 2005 by Packanack

[+splicingdan]

Hopefully this will clear things up:

 

1) I did not trespass to retrieve the flag. I parked at the recommended coordinates

(directly in front of the mailbox), crossed the roadway, and down to the stream.

At the point where the trail crosses the steam, there is a large downed tree that

provides an easy (albeit a bit high) bridge. The stream was flowing strong but not

at dangerous levels - I just didn't want to get wet with an attempt on the rocks.

 

2) Your rules did not restrict me, a "neutral", to mileage limits.

 

3) Your rules did not restrict anyone from placing the flag in a Terracache. It

specifically stated "cache" not "Geocache".

Sure, I'll admit it's a sneaky move, but in reality it hurts no one.

 

4) I placed the flag inside JMBella's moving cache and buried the container here on

SI. At no point did I cross paths with a single person.

 

5) JMBella was informed of the situation at precisely the same instance as everyone

else on the watchlist.

 

6) In my log I provided the cache's waypoint for the flag's new location, which was

only 6 miles from NJ. JMBella drove 60 miles to retrieve it. His only advantage was

receiving my log for his cache.

Later I realized that I should have provided the coordinates in the flag's log, but

by then it was too late. I never expected anyone to retrieve so quickly.

 

Any more questions?

Edited April 9, 2005 by splicingdan

[+JMBella]

It was a tongue in cheek, but I pulled the post because it offended you. My apologies if it did. I mistakenly thought that a little good natured chiding would be taken as such. Believe me, I fully understand this is just a diversionary pasttime meant to be enjoyable and a little fun.

It's always difficult tell when someone is joking in the forums. I suppose if it was Brian or Avro that made that post I would have known better. No harm done. Sorry for not recognizing it. In the eloquent words of George W. "Fool me once, shame on.. shame on..you... fool me ..uh... I won't be fooled again."

 

In regard to the flag ending up in a TC. Like Dan said, it was a sneaky move but it was the watch list email I got that informed me of the move. Even with leaving for Staten island almost immediately, I thought for sure Avro, who works in Manhattan, would have beaten me to it.

 

Are non-Groundspeak caches fair game?

 

Is the mileage limit waived for a team retrieving their own flag from the other territory (or from out of bounds)?

 

Can a flag be placed in a members only cache? A new, unapproved cache?

 

The terrain max is less than 4. How about the difficulty max?

 

No

 

No

 

Yes, No

 

4/4 max.

 

Game On!!

[+Resolution]

Thanks JMBella. I was under the impression that a team had unlimited mileage while retrieving their own flag from enemy territory. Could the flag page rules be updated with this info? Someone who doesn't use the forums could pick up a flag and not know all this new information since it's not listed in "the rules".

 

Just to clarify... are you saying that even though the NJ flag is WAY in LI, it can still only be moved 10 miles by a NJ team member?

Edited April 9, 2005 by Resolution

[+avroair]

On the 25 miles rule:

 

* 25 mile limit for ANY flag within your own territory.

* unlimited outside of your own territory

This is specifically so people can retrieve the cache - the mileage is less of a factor than the points.

 

I thought for sure Avro, who works in Manhattan, would have beaten me to it.

 

The BIG word in that sentence is WORKS. Which also means:

 

a) I couldn't get out until 5:30 pm

I take mass transit

c) would mean I would have to travel to LI

d) I did not recieve a notification until the bug notification

 

Edited April 9, 2005 by avroair

[+JMBella]

I thought for sure Avro, who works in Manhattan, would have beaten me to it.

 

The BIG word in that sentence is WORKS. Which also means:

 

a) I couldn't get out until 5:30 pm

I take mass transit

c) would mean I would have to travel to LI

d) I did not recieve a notification until the bug notification

 

Excuses excuses.

 

On the 25 miles rule:

 

* 25 mile limit for ANY flag within your own territory.

* unlimited outside of your own territory

This is specifically so people can retrieve the cache - the mileage is less of a factor than the points.

 

OK, now I'm confused.

 

I thought we could move our own flag 10 miles and the opponent's flag 25.

 

Unlimited? So if the LI flag ends up in Cape May, I could bring it all the way back by myself in one trip?

[+avroair]

Yes, since the points are what matters more... every time one of your guys moves our flag you get 3 points. An NJ team member retrieving the flag from LI would only get 1 point...

 

Otherwise, what is the incentive to bring it back 25 miles only for three opposing team members to push it back out 30 miles?

[+The Frantic Cachers]

Right now we need to get that LI flag back to Jersey, but to do it we will have to relay it with atleast 3 people. The other problem is that our NJ flag is by Montauk with over 100 mile trip one way. This is going to be the challenge.

[+Resolution]

Frantic, apparantly the new "25 miles within your own territory, unlimited outside your territory" would allow a NJ member to pick up either flag (but not both) and bring it all the way home. I believe that once in NJ, however, the flag must be placed within 25 miles of the border so as not to violate the 25 mile rule. A team of two different cachers could pick up both flags in one trip. That is IF I understand things correctly.

[+The Frantic Cachers]

sorry, got confused (which happens all to often)

 

ok...so only 2 of us would have to make the trip.....but is it really worth the 200+ miles for a couple of LI caches

[+BlackBuck]

Just a freindly word of advice when heading out to Montauk to get the flag(if its still there)After around exit 63 on the sunrise hwy,you'll have to start obeying the speed limits.Lots of rader traps along the way !Especialy in the towns when it says thirty mph you better be doing 30 mph! Good luck !

[+Team Rampant Lion]

Didn't mean to start a great debate and by no means meant to imply wrongdoing, just wanted to be clear on the rules as they are written differently on the two TB pages. The LI TB page includes mileage rules. The NJ TB page does not.

 

To be clear:

 

1). If your TB is in your state and you plan to move it, you can move it 10 miles.

 

2). If the opposing TB is in your state and you plan to move it, you can move it 25 miles.

 

3). If either TB is in the opposing state and you plan to move it, there are no restrictions on the distance it can be moved.

 

Is this correct? Can both TB pages be edited to state this. Thanks.

Edited April 10, 2005 by Team Rampant Lion

[+avroair]

Didn't mean to start a great debate and by no means meant to imply wrongdoing, just wanted to be clear on the rules as they are written differently on the two TB pages.  The LI TB page includes mileage rules.  The NJ TB page does not. 

 

.

To be clear:

 

1). If your TB is in your state and you plan to move it, you can move it 10 miles.

CORRECT

2). If the opposing TB is in your state and you plan to move it, you can move it 25 miles.

CORRECT

3). If either TB is in the opposing state and you plan to move it, there are no restrictions on the distance it can be moved.

CORRECT

 

To add to that, if your travel bug is in a neutral area there are no restrictions for you moving it back to your territory.

 

 

Placing the travel bug in a non-geocache is not allowed. It has made the game a complete one-sided affair.

Edited April 10, 2005 by avroair

[+Resolution]

Avro... on April 9th you posted

 

On the 25 miles rule:

 

* 25 mile limit for ANY flag within your own territory.

 

Then on April 10th...

 

To be clear:

 

1). If your TB is in your state and you plan to move it, you can move it 10 miles.

CORRECT

 

Which is it?

[+JMBella]

wait wait wait... There is no restriction on moving you OWN Flag if it's outside of your territory. There is still a 25 mile rule for moving your opponents flag no matter where it is.

 

When did this turn into an Abbott and Costello routine?

[+Resolution]

Who would like Avroair, JMBella and Briansnat locked in a room together until they all agree on one set of rules and update their respective bug pages with said rules?

[+JMBella]

Who would like Avroair, JMBella and Briansnat locked in a room together until they all agree on one set of rules and update their respective bug pages with said rules?

oohh me me.. oh, wait.. no.

 

These are the mileage rules:

 

Your own flag: 10 miles in your own territory, no limit outside your territory. In other words, you can come to Montauk and bring your flag back 100+ miles to the NJ border, plus 10 more miles. Make sense?

 

Opponents Flag: 25 Miles. Period.

[+briansnat]

Who would like Avroair, JMBella and Briansnat locked in a room together until they all agree on one set of rules and update their respective bug pages with said rules?

oohh me me.. oh, wait.. no.

 

These are the mileage rules:

 

Your own flag: 10 miles in your own territory, no limit outside your territory. In other words, you can come to Montauk and bring your flag back 100+ miles to the NJ border, plus 10 more miles. Make sense?

 

Opponents Flag: 25 Miles. Period.

Sounds good to me.

[+splicingdan]

Placing the travel bug in a non-geocache is not allowed. It has made the game  a complete one-sided affair.

It's not a one-sided affair because I placed the TB in a Terracache, it's because NJ's flag was moved and LI retrieved it first.

The results would have been the same if I had placed it in a Geocache here on SI.

 

Stop whining and go get it back or bribe me to do it.

[+BMSquared]

OK, I haven't really gotten on board with this whole hunt yet, I just want clarification on the rules.

 

If the flag is located in a TCXXX cache, the owner must be shot?

If the flag is located in Jersey than only cachers with a Garmin can move the flag 10 miles on Monday Wednesday and Friday and 25 miles if the rivers are not flooding and tresspassing is only implied before 5:30 PM so Avroair can keep up with the details from the train?

Good natured ribbing is aloud but baffonery is out of the question on Staten Island?

BrianSnat is NOT Hartclimbs?

Team Bam Bam is no longer on the forums? Or doesn't have an opinion?

JMBella is a switch hitter?

[+Perfect Tommy]

Is there a mercy rule?

[+Quest1962]

If the flag is located in Jersey than only cachers with a Garmin can move the flag 10 miles on Monday Wednesday and Friday and 25 miles if the rivers are not flooding and tresspassing is only implied before 5:30 PM so Avroair can keep up with the details from the train?

I get it now! So just when is Alternate side of the DMZ in effect?

[+Team Rampant Lion]

These are the mileage rules:

 

Your own flag: 10 miles in your own territory, no limit outside your territory. In other words, you can come to Montauk and bring your flag back 100+ miles to the NJ border, plus 10 more miles. Make sense?

 

Opponents Flag: 25 Miles. Period.

So if I went to retrieve the NJ TB, I would have to drop it within 10 miles of entering NJ like here but I cannot take it all the way home to Sparta and drop it here.

[+JMBella]

OK, I haven't really gotten on board with this whole hunt yet, I just want clarification on the rules.

 

If the flag is located in a TCXXX cache, the owner must be shot?

If the flag is located in Jersey than only cachers with a Garmin can move the flag 10 miles on Monday Wednesday and Friday and 25 miles if the rivers are not flooding and tresspassing is only implied before 5:30 PM so Avroair can keep up with the details from the train?

Good natured ribbing is aloud but baffonery is out of the question on Staten Island?

BrianSnat is NOT Hartclimbs?

Team Bam Bam is no longer on the forums? Or doesn't have an opinion?

JMBella is a switch hitter?

Hey, that's extremely offensive!!

 

People that use Magellans can move the flag on Monday Wednesday and Friday also.

[+Tiffany's Slaves]

 

People that use Magellans can move the flag on Monday Wednesday and Friday also.

It is a proven fact that ONLY Garmin users are certified Heterosexuals

[+Team Rampant Lion]

 

People that use Magellans can move the flag on Monday Wednesday and Friday also.

It is a proven fact that ONLY Garmin users are certified Heterosexuals

It is a proven fact that ONLY Garmin users feel the need to publically state that fact.

[+Squealy]

t is a proven fact that ONLY Garmin users are certified Heterosexuals

While that is true, I am getting a beastiality vibe from this quote? It was a joke - take it easy!

 

 

How about this - if you pick up YOUR flag from the OPPONENTS territory you can place it within a 25 MILE RADIUS of your home coords.

 

It makes sense if someone was to retrieve their flag from the opponent. They shouldn't have to take a detour to place the flag.