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Geolitter - Archived Caches


DeskJocky
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It was mention in one of my local caching groups that SBUX archived most of her caches stating that she will no longer be able to maintain them. First I must thank her for saying this. But here is the problem. Now there are a few hundred caches sitting out there being geolitter. Some of these caches are of the ammo can in the woods type, while others are the lamp post micro type. She offered these caches up for adoption, so if someone wants them, now is your time. Not only do we have caches just sitting out there unmaintained/not active, but we also have travel bugs and geocoins in these caches not moving. So will the community pitch in to help a fellow cacher and/or the game?

 

Edit Once: Tried to add link to profile

Edit Again: It didn't play nice, I gave up

Edited by DeskJocky
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The titles say it all. She's posting notes that she can't maintain the caches and adoptions are welcome. But she has archived them too and therefore these caches are not on the active lists anymore. You have to go through her profile or the profile of someone who found them to see the listings.

 

Obviously, if she's made a decision to reduce her caching activity, that's cool and her business. But we (the geocaching communtiy at large) shouldn't be leaving that much litter, or potential litter in the field. CITO becomes a joke if we can't clean up after ourselves. And leaving geo-litter in the field won't help geocaching as a whole as we try to gain (or keep) access to parks.

 

Hopefully, some of us who are in the relevant areas can adopt or retrieve some of these caches. It looks like she's placed caches from North Carolina to Maine. My opinion is that if you do retrieve it, that you should post that you've done so on the relevant cache page (obviously adoptions will reactivate the page itself), so a bunch of us don't go trying to remove a cache that's already long gone.

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I am moving this topic to the Northeast forum, as the vast majority of the caches in question are located in states covered by that forum.

 

Several Geocaching.com Volunteers are involved already with adoption assistance. Also, a backup plan is under discussion for any cache that isn't adopted.

 

Also, I am merging together two different threads about the same subject.

Edited by Keystone Approver
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The way the caches were archived looks like bad form to me. If I wanted to get rid of that many caches I would have left them active and edited the listing asking the next finder to remove the cache. Kind of a last find prize. Once the cache is gone then archive it.

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I agree with Brian, nobody can adequately maintain 240 caches, there should be some kind of limit on how many physical caches can be owned by any one individual, and based on my own experience, that number should be around 100, which would still reguire an average of two maintenance visits a weekend to attain the oft neglected standard of one maintenance visit per year per cache. I really don't think they should be more than 100 miles from someone's home. It looks like this individual lived in Pennsylvania and had temporary residence in North Carolina, so why the need to play Jonny Appleseed and spread them all up and down the east coast?

 

The wilderness ethic is Carry it in- Carry it out. The geocaching community is obligated to clean up the mess this cacher created, but policies that allow such excess need to be reexamined.

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Caches hidden at a great distance from the owner's home coordinates are evaluated under the section of the Geocache Listing Requirements/ Guidelines titled Placing Caches on Vacation/ Beyond Your Maintainable Distance. This owner had a "maintainable distance" that covered much of eastern Pennsylvania and Maryland due to her previous heavy involvement in geocaching. For caches outside the owner's maintainable distance, the cache should only be listed if the owner makes arrangements for its maintenance. A spot check of the caches listed in CT, MA, RI, ME, VA, MD, TN and OH all indicate on the cache pages that they're being minded by a local geocacher. I know that all the caches that I listed for SBUX in western PA and Ohio had to, and did, have local maintainers.

 

In the first instance, I would hope that the designated maintainer would step up to the plate and either adopt the cache or remove it. They should contact the Geocaching.com volunteer for their home area for assistance in processing an adoption, or to indicate that they've removed a container that's still in place.

 

Let's focus this thread on taking care of the rest of the caches that don't have designated maintainers: by rescuing travel bugs, adopting good caches that ought to live on, and removing poorly maintained or unremarkable caches to avoid geo-litter.

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I agree with Brian, nobody can adequately maintain 240 caches, there should be some kind of limit on how many physical caches can be owned by any one individual

 

I disagree with number and distance limits. Some people can't maintain one cache, while others have the time and desire to maintain many. How many should be determined by the individual, not someone sitting in an office in Seattle. That being said, when someone has hundreds of caches sprinkled over a half dozen states and a rep for not maintaining them you wonder why they are allowed to continue hiding them.

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The discussion of listing standards is moot in this case, as the owner will not ever be hiding a cache again. The existing ones are there, and this thread is about dealing with them. If you'd like to debate limits on the number of hides, or the vacation/maintainable distance guideline, please open a thread in the Geocaching Topics forum. Feel free to use this case as an example. Thanks.

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A spot check of the caches listed in CT, MA, RI, ME, VA, MD, TN and OH all indicate on the cache pages that they're being minded by a local geocacher. I know that all the caches that I listed for SBUX in western PA and Ohio had to, and did, have local maintainers
I'm pretty sure the NC ones are being taken care of as well.

PS why are any of you even wasting the bandwidth to bash someone who has given an awful lot to this game, and was until recently one of the most active participants. Shame on you! :) Stay on topic.

Edited by wimseyguy
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There is an item in the KnowledgeBase that might be interesting for any of you that might want to become an adoptive parent: How Do I Adopt A Cache?

 

In this specific case, I'm guessing there will not need to be a wait of 4 weeks allowing the cache owner to respond to the adoption request. She's already made her intentions clear.

 

What I would suggest is that if you are interested in adopting a particular cache, post a note to that cache page. That way, your neighbor cachers will know.

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They should contact the Geocaching.com volunteer for their home area for assistance in processing an adoption, or to indicate that they've removed a container that's still in place.

Oops!

 

And plus what the chisel-chinned professor guy said about those who were already pre-designated as the local maintainer.

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The posted topic for this thread was "Geolitter", not "Adopters Sought for Pennsylvania Caches", had it been that, I wouldn't have read it, so I do not accept that such discussion is off topic. I can understand that an examination of how this came about might be uncomfortable, but it is certainly not irrelevant. Geocacher burn out is a predictable reality, the bigger the house of cards that is allowed to be constructed, the greater the likelyhood that it will collapse. Along with both ownership and authority must come accountability. To refuse to examine this is to abdicate responsibility.

Edited by jonboy
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Better to pick up the archived caches. How can someone be so negligent of not stewarding their caches better.

 

Edit:

The posted topic for this thread was "Geolitter", not "Adopters Sought for Pennsylvania Caches", had it been that, I wouldn't have read it.

 

I agree with Jonboy, the topic IS geolitter we were discussing picking up the archived caches, which I feel is an important issue. If there is anyway I can help, i will go thru the list of archived caches. Would it make any sense to write notes on the cache pages for people who want to find the caches and then pick them up?

Edited by avroair
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This is the type of thing that a land manager would seize upon to validate a policy against geocaching. And this is a strand running through all land use and management issues. The Deer Park area of Allamuchy State Park in NJ, used to allow people to drive down to the shores of Deer Pond. Fishermen, would leave copious amounts of trash on site, so the rule was changed, now if you want to fish, you walk in. Well now very few make the trek, so there is no litter and the manager has validated his approach. The way the community responds will either dispell that concern or reinforce a notion. My only suggestion is that a strict time frame be imposed for adoption, caches not adopted in say 45 days be picked up by volunteer. Surely a pick up--last find---note can be placed on the website requesting next cacher to pick up. I am running two caches, my ability would probably be not more than 10, given work, home, family, sports, etc.etc. One of the caches I adopted was in place for years. That cacher stopped caching years ago, his list still carries three others still out there, he has not posted or visited in a couple of years. I made it a point to go look for one of his others and surprisingly it is in good shape, but he certainly is not running it.

Edited by Packanack
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I had no problem with the maintenance issues regarding her caches in Northern Virginia.  Either SBUX herself, or a member of her family, was in my neck of the woods about once every three weeks. 

 

That's often enough to maintain a cache.

I won't claim to have read all the logs, only those from North Virginia, but I can't find any logs indicating that a cache was ever revisited for maintenance. I saw where a wet log book was replaced by another finder, but that cuckoo style of cache maintenance, where maintenance is left to others, does not constitute cache maintenance in my book.

Edited by jonboy
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There are special circumstances involved in this geocacher's retirement from hiding and maintaining caches. You can do a forum search if you don't recall the threads from the very end of last year and early January. Yes, of course it is not responsible to archive your caches and leave them in place. EDIT: Just to be clear, it is quite obvious under these special circumstances that the cache owner won't be picking up her own caches.

 

I agree with Packanack that, by responding in a positive way to an unfortunate situation, we can demonstrate that geocachers act responsibly, even when one of us does not. This makes us look good for any land managers who follow these matters.

 

Thank you to Avroair for inquiring about caches in his area. The only active SBUX caches in New Jersey are a virtual and this physical cache that is being maintained by KBer. In the first instance we would offer KBer the choice of adopting the cache or removing the container. EDIT: I see that KBer has just posted to the cache page, has verified that the container is missing, and has recommended its archival. I am confident that NJAdmin will respond positively to that recommendation. I thank KBer for the prompt and responsible action taken.

 

Through work already done by Geocaching.com volunteers and helpful community members, all affected caches in New York State, Western Pennsylvania and Ohio are already being accounted for. Significant progress is being made on the caches in eastern Pennsylvania. Additional attention is needed for caches in Maryland and Delaware. Anyone may write to me privately for details on how they can help with specific caches, or for more information.

Edited by Keystone Approver
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Dibs on the turpike micros!! LMAO!! :D:):):D:D:D:D:P:)

And you scolded me to doing those too QM!!! :)

 

I can pick up SbuxSbux 15 on my way down, they weekend.

 

I talked to Kber about the other cache, since it has gone missing. There are not many others close to me. But i will look in Delaware and Maryland since I will be down there this weekend.

 

I agree with Packanack. A note on cache pages stating the cache is still in place (unless there are DNFs) could help to pick up the pace.

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Through work already done by Geocaching.com volunteers and helpful community members, all affected caches in New York State, Western Pennsylvania and Ohio are already being accounted for. Significant progress is being made on the caches in eastern Pennsylvania. Additional attention is needed for caches in Maryland and Delaware. Anyone may write to me privately for details on how they can help with specific caches, or for more information.

The 15 caches in NC are already being discussed in the local message board. All remaining caches will be adopted or retrieved by this community within the next few weeks.

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I appreciate that great report, wimseyguy. I had no doubt that SBUX's many friends in North Carolina would step up to the plate. On behalf of the volunteer team and especially your area's volunteer, I thank you and the other Carolina cachers for your efforts.

Edited by Keystone Approver
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Team chstress would be happy to pick up any we can, there is a possibility next weekend we may be in the delaware area. We would like to help out as much as we can to remove geo litter. We remember the thread from the new year and our blessings are still with her and her family and will help in any way possible. uNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES We can understand and will do our part. We check out whch ones we can get to.

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I have heard of SBux, and done two SBux caches. (BTW, the Virtual in NJ is the lamest virtual I've done. Oh, well. Each to his own.)

I think the point here is that we are a community. We're family, and help out when necessary.

If caches need to be removed for archiving, we should all pitch in.

That brings us to another original cacher, Skibum, who seems to be among the missing.

Sierra Bravo-5-Stone Living Room seems to be faring well.

Sierra Bravo-3-Lewis Morris County Park has a November 3, 2004 warning from NJ Admin, and should be archived. I'll remove it, if necessary.

Sierra Bravo-2-Fosterfields has a similar warning, but the container was replaced on 11/4.

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I've received adoption requests for five caches since the last time I posted to this topic! And two more caches have been confirmed missing and can be put to a final rest. That is fantastic work, and I am but one of a half dozen Groundspeak volunteers who are helping out with this challenge. Thanks and keep up the good work.

 

Thank you, also, to the many people like BrianSnat in the above example. Each and every day, in situations far less visible than the subject of this thread, concerned geocachers take care of existing caches, adopt caches, or trash out tired caches. It's really appreciated, and it is a privilege to help facilitate this good work.

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This is the type of thing that a land manager would seize upon to validate a policy against geocaching.

 

Since that's the underlying truth about all things geo-litter, I feel compelled to repeat it.

 

 

I'm glad to see some activity on this. None of these are in my neck of the woods, although I may have a shot at cleaning the one in Fredericksburg (#53) in a couple of weeks (presuming no one else posts that they've already done something). I've actually passed up that one a couple of times for stealth related reasons, so the chance to bull through a search and not worry about replacing it should be amusing.

 

As someone else noted, there are plenty of other cachers who left behind smaller quanities of geo-litter as well. Until recentlly, that went for just about every occurence of a cache being archived by a reviewer for non-response. I've found one archived cache 18 months after the fact. I'm sure there are others out there. I wish there was some mechanisms in place through the site to handle such things. Maybe having a prolific cacher leave 150 caches or so all at once will spur such developments.

 

Until then, everyone involved, please keep using the cache pages to post what's been done with each site.

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There response to this is somewhat impressive, but I wonder how much of this is related to the cacher involved. Would the same effort be put for all of the one-hit wonder caches out there?

Any thoughts on how to turn this into a more regional, broad base clean up of Geo-litter? There must be a donzens of cache that have randomly been archived by their owners, or SBA, especially multis. I know I've stumbled across a couple. Any chance the reviewers (or any cacher) can put together a list of possible pieces of Geolitter around certain regions?

How about a CITO event to clean up these forgotten caches?

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Any thoughts on how to turn this into a more regional, broad base clean up of Geo-litter? There must be a donzens of cache that have randomly been archived by their owners, or SBA, especially multis. I know I've stumbled across a couple. Any chance the reviewers (or any cacher) can put together a list of possible pieces of Geolitter around certain regions?

How about a CITO event to clean up these forgotten caches?

I like this idea a cache CITO. A great way to make sure that any defunct caches do not become litter. Is it possible for the approvers to create a list of caches that have been archived but still need to trashed out?

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For volunteer reviewers, archived caches show up in search results. So, if you were to specify a park or a state forest or just a 25 mile radius, with a little work a volunteer would be able to tell you where there might be geolitter. We also do our best to follow up on caches that are submitted but never listed on the website because of one or more guidelines that weren't followed. If you have a specific area in mind, get in touch with the volunteer responsible for that area.

 

This same ability to see archived caches in search results can also be helpful in finding adoptive owners for SBUX's caches. If you are interested in adopting a cache, but can't remember all the ones in your area, send a message to the appropriate reviewer with your home zipcode and we can assist in identifying adoption opportunities. Everyone knows the reviewers for Pennsylvania, but in addition to that, let me note that I am the contact person for Maryland (maintenance issues only), VAreviewer is the contact for Virginia, and gpsfun is the contact for Delaware and New England. All SBUX caches in NC, NJ, NY, OH and TN are taken care of.

Edited by Keystone Approver
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LadeBear, I wanted to thank you publicly for offering to adopt two SBUX caches along the Appalachian Trail. These are precisely the kind of caches that ought to be preserved for others to enjoy. Heck, they have DCNR permits and everything! Your dedication to, and ability to maintain, these caches is demonstrated by the fact that you were FTF on them! I forwarded your request to someone who is checking to see whether it conflicts with any earlier requests. If it doesn't, you'll be the new owner when a batch of cache adoptions are processed.

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It's great there is a widespread positive response and I agree with Ekitt10 that the same diligence should be applied across the board to one-offs. I have also found geo-litter left when I was placing a new cache close by.

 

To conclude on a positive note, I am very impressed with the community for stepping forward and acting, as I have said many a times, I have never met a geocacher I didn't like. :(

Edited by avroair
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Since I can't physically help out, I went thru the cache pages and according to logs these could be missing:

 

Isn't it ironic? Those are still active.

 

There response to this is somewhat impressive, but I wonder how much of this is related to the cacher involved. Would the same effort be put for all of the one-hit wonder caches out there?

 

Nothing like 150 at the same time to finally get someone's attention. The fact that it's a geocaching celebrity doesn't hurt either.

 

As you stated, the one-offs have been a problem since the hobby started, so I'll take attention to the issue any way we can get it.

 

Any thoughts on how to turn this into a more regional, broad base clean up of Geo-litter? There must be a dozens of cache that have randomly been archived by their owners, or SBA, especially multis. I know I've stumbled across a couple. Any chance the reviewers (or any cacher) can put together a list of possible pieces of Geolitter around certain regions?

How about a CITO event to clean up these forgotten caches?

 

For volunteer reviewers, archived caches show up in search results. So, if you were to specify a park or a state forest or just a 25 mile radius, with a little work a volunteer would be able to tell you where there might be geolitter.

 

The answer to this question is finally getting better. I've asked for lists of archived caches in the past for the same reason and the answer was "NO". No explanation, no consideration of the problem, just no. I'm happy to see that TPTB are finally coming around on this issue.

 

I'd like the list for archived caches in Virginia east of -77 degrees longitude. That's basically the area of the Hampton Roads group, plus some rural area that isn't in any group's area. I know a few others in the HR group share these concerns, so we can get these divided up and taken care of over the next few months.

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QOCMike,

 

My offer was more along the lines of answering questions like "are there any archived caches in this park?" or "what caches might be in place and needing rescue within a 10 mile radius of Anytown?" But perhaps your area's reviewer would have the time to respond to your request; it can't hurt to ask him.

 

Oh, and thanks for everyone's continuing sensitivity.

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... or "what caches might be in place and needing rescue within a 10 mile radius of Anytown?"

 

The problem with dividing areas up by radius, instead of boundaries, is that the requests by various local groups and/or individuals will have overlaps and gaps.

 

I guess we could solve that later. This project is too important not to get started right away, so let's start with the list of archived caches within 50 miles of Hampton VA. That should cover most of the Hampton Roads group area without overstepping into the Richmond group area.

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At this time we are only worrying about caches in Delaware, Maryland, Pennsylvania and Virginia. There may be one or two in New England states (other than NH which is already taken care of), but the volunteer for those states is following up with the designated cache maintainers.

 

Groundspeak processed five adoptions of SBUX caches at my request today -- yes, on a Sunday. Fantastic service from the Head Frogs, and a continuing positive response from the community helping out with this situation. Thanks everyone.

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