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Who says the splattering of micros all over creation doesn't effect traditionals?

 

The archive note of a cache near here:

 

I picked up the cache this morning. Not much activity lately. The local trend of micro caches that the family sedan can drive to and 'Easter Egg hunt' has killed the sport in my opinion. Hiking and scenery has been replaced with adults searching for a film canister in a parking lot.

How sad.

 

Sad, indeed.

 

--RuffRidr

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The hider felt that there was too many micros so he archived his regular-sized cache? My, that's an interesting bit of logic. I suspect that there is something else going on.

 

Everyone else won't play the way he wants, so he's taking his toys and going home. :rolleyes:

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That's too bad...

 

IMO, if people start archiving regular caches because they aren't being found n favor of the wally world micro, more people will end up putting out more drive-by micros becasue they won't know what other options are available...

 

In quite a few cases, I've enjoyed the trip to the cache more than the cache itself - this isn't to say that the caches were bad - far from it, actually - but the scenery was better

 

closing comment:

I have yet to find a drive-by micro... there aren't any that I know of around where I live (southern NH)... I guess I'm just lucky!

 

Happy Caching

Jeff

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All the more reason to leave caches like that one in place. If people start archiving their quality hides because of lack of interest, those of us who are interested in them won't have anything to look forward to.

This is very true, especially since so few new hides of this type are being placed in some areas. An easter egg hunt, interesting, that's exactly the term I thought of too when I surveyed my local caching landscape.

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I've been seeing caches around here that are archived by approvers after not being found for a while. All of these have had a DNF prior to archival, and I assume (and hope) that the approvers try to contact the owners.... But I wonder if there will come a time when an approver will just archive any cache that hasn't been found in X number of months.

 

I have a cache that hasn't been logged in 11 months, and another that hasn't been logged in 10 months. These are remote locations, although an approver might not realize it since they are both only a mile or two from a highway.

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Too bad for that guy...go plant a new cache where he pulled his out.

 

As geocaching grows, there are going to be more and more dilettantes. It happens in every hobby that I have ever taken up.

 

Take hiking, for example. On any popular hiking trail, you tend to meet "casual hikers", and find more litter, within the mile closest to a parking lot. After yu get past that mile (or less), the number of hikers drops off, but the ones you meet are more likely o be serious about it.

 

The same with sailing. On Saturday afternoon, the harbor is full of weekend sailors who don't know their a** from a lazarette, but get a few miles out, and it's far less crowded, and the boats you do encounter are more likely to know the rules of the road.

 

Geocaching is becoming like that. The most easily accessible venues are going to get lame micros. The more dedicated and experienced cachers will need to go to more inaccessible locations.

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But I wonder if there will come a time when an approver will just archive any cache that hasn't been found in X number of months.

 

I have a cache that hasn't been logged in 11 months, and another that hasn't been logged in 10 months. These are remote locations, although an approver might not realize it since they are both only a mile or two from a highway.

I sure hope not - that could be a very bad thing indeed!

 

BTW, those two rarely found caches of yours look really fun! I'm sorry I don't make it up to Oregon anymore.

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Who says the splattering of micros all over creation doesn't effect traditionals?

 

The archive note of a cache near here:

 

I picked up the cache this morning. Not much activity lately. The local trend of micro caches that the family sedan can drive to and 'Easter Egg hunt' has killed the sport in my opinion. Hiking and scenery has been replaced with adults searching for a film canister in a parking lot.

How sad.

 

Sad, indeed.

 

--RuffRidr

With so many great hides out there how can anyone possible do them all?

 

Even the good hides get less finds. Not because of the urban caches, but because you have to choose which hike to go on. If there used to be 12 good hike caches odds are they would get a lot of visits. If now there are 200 of them, sorry I can't do them all this year, mabye over the next 16 years though...

 

They essentially killed one opportunity for a good destination cache. Now there are only 199 to choose from.

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I've been seeing caches around here that are archived by approvers after not being found for a while. All of these have had a DNF prior to archival, and I assume (and hope) that the approvers try to contact the owners.... But I wonder if there will come a time when an approver will just archive any cache that hasn't been found in X number of months.

 

I have a cache that hasn't been logged in 11 months, and another that hasn't been logged in 10 months. These are remote locations, although an approver might not realize it since they are both only a mile or two from a highway.

I have a multicache that has been inactive for some time, and I also put it temporarily offline because part of it went missing. I was going to repair it quickly but the weather makes that impossible.

 

The reviewer posted a note (which I got an e-mail copy of, of course) asking for some sort of action or he would archive it; so I wrote him a mail, explained the situation, and all is now fine (well, except the snow is still getting in the way!).

 

So don't worry about the cache being archived from under you. But maybe if you use a spam filter, check your cache listings occasionally in case you miss a log. (Spam filters which direct mail into a "Bulk" folder are killing e-mail as a serious business tool because, unlike almost every other reason for non-delivery, the sender gets no feedback!)

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Who says the splattering of micros all over creation doesn't effect traditionals?

 

The archive note of a cache near here:

 

I picked up the cache this morning. Not much activity lately. The local trend of micro caches that the family sedan can drive to and 'Easter Egg hunt' has killed the sport in my opinion. Hiking and scenery has been replaced with adults searching for a film canister in a parking lot.

How sad.

 

Sad, indeed.

 

--RuffRidr

Ok… I don’t get this. This person wants to protest what he/she perceives as a plethora of micros in their area by removing a traditional cache from the community. The “there are too many micros” horse is never too dead to beat, but pulling a traditional out of the system seems like sour grapes. I wish the hider had put it up for adoption instead of removing the cache.

 

BTW I travel most weeks and I don't mind picking up an urban micro in a new city. It my be tiresome for the locals, but gets me out ans about in a new town. :P

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The archive note of a cache near here:

 

I picked up the cache this morning. Not much activity lately. The local trend of micro caches that the family sedan can drive to and 'Easter Egg hunt' has killed the sport in my opinion. Hiking and scenery has been replaced with adults searching for a film canister in a parking lot.

How sad.

 

Sad, indeed.

 

--RuffRidr

That is sad... :P

 

Which cache was it?

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This is my take on the topic. I have been thinking about this for some time and wrote this note weeks ago. I have been reading it, re-reading it, and thinking about starting a topic to post it. This topic is a good place for it. It is my opinion, my feelings. I may be flamed for it, but it is how I feel about my area in Pennsylvania.

 

This game was started by some technophiles who marveled at what they could do with a Global Positioning System receiver. They also loved the outdoors, hiking and backpacking and blended their new technical toy with their old hobbies. Groundspeak and Geocaching.com were founded as a way for someone to promote the hobby and perhaps, someday, make a living from the proceeds.

Many other people began to hear about the game/hobby/obsession and joined in. However, some of these people only satisfied half of the equation: they loved technology and the thrill of using it to find something, but they did NOT enjoy the outdoors. They did not like hot weather, cold weather, wildlife, thorns, mud, long hikes, insects, spiders, poison ivy, snakes, or any of the other things that are part of the outdoor experience. What was the option for these people? - Virtual and locationless caches. Since, for all practical purposes, these are no longer listed as part of the game the alternative available became urban/suburban micro caches. They hide them, find them, get their big find numbers and don’t need to do the things they don’t enjoy. All the assumptions about “you hide what you know” come in at this point. New geocachers in many areas are mostly seeing micro caches put out. They see players with hundreds of finds in less than a year. This is what they emulate for the way they play the game. Micros are what they put out for their placements and that is the kind of caches they seek to find. If this is not the case in your locale, you are very fortunate. Those of us that primarily enjoy the long hikes and the outdoors have become the minority in this hobby.

Finally, this is a commercial enterprise. The owner wants to maximize his profitability. No business owner is going to make rules or regulations to alienate a substantial portion of his customers. Micro caches, either in interesting or lame locations, are here to stay. Get used to this reality and move on. Work with geocachers you meet to educate them on interesting cache placements, but don’t expect the game to return to what it was in the beginning.

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The hider felt that there was too many micros so he archived his regular-sized cache?  My, that's an interesting bit of logic.  I suspect that there is something else going on.

 

Everyone else won't play the way he wants, so he's taking his toys and going home.  :P

You know, that comment wasn't particularly well phrased.

 

This cacher may well have been really upset about the trend in his/her area and has given up on the game.

 

Your comment was a flame. Probably not a help in the discussion.

 

The game is going to evolve and we are going to lose people along the way who really don't want to do it anymore for a lot of VALID reasons. Getting flamed in the forum is just one more.

 

Frankly, I see geocaching going away in about 5 years. We are seeing more and more places regulated to death, or where caching is banned. We see micro spews and everyone just shrugs it off without a care. We see a lot of problems and not many solutions. The times people suggest ways of dealing with the problems, the suggestions are either ridiculed or ignored.

 

I wouldn't be going long on Groundspeak stock right now.

 

(Klatch: Nicely put in the comment above mine. Don't like the future as it appears now, will probably quit caching if the trend doesn't stabilize as the micros in parking lots are just not for me.)

Edited by bigredmed
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Who says the splattering of micros all over creation doesn't effect traditionals?

 

The archive note of a cache near here:

 

I picked up the cache this morning. Not much activity lately. The local trend of micro caches that the family sedan can drive to and 'Easter Egg hunt' has killed the sport in my opinion. Hiking and scenery has been replaced with adults searching for a film canister in a parking lot.

How sad.

 

Sad, indeed.

 

--RuffRidr

Ok… I don’t get this. This person wants to protest what he/she perceives as a plethora of micros in their area by removing a traditional cache from the community. The “there are too many micros” horse is never too dead to beat, but pulling a traditional out of the system seems like sour grapes. I wish the hider had put it up for adoption instead of removing the cache.

 

BTW I travel most weeks and I don't mind picking up an urban micro in a new city. It my be tiresome for the locals, but gets me out ans about in a new town. :P

Let me offer this observation.

 

Last Saturday, we had a Ham radio fleamarket. I bought some stuff for my mobile radio. I also mailed two international geocaches. Not counting the cost of the stuff, or the ammo cans I will need to get to hide the ones here. Guess where I spent more money?

 

Not at the flea market. Traditional caches are expensive.

 

You have to go there

You have to spend enough time to find a good spot

You have to build a cache that is cammo'd to fit your spot

You have to go back

You have place your cache, and spend 20 minutes getting the coords right.

You have to buy the stuff

You have to buy the container

You rack up some money and time costs that are not triffling.

 

When I started 4 years ago, we all hid caches with the idea that we were contributing to a game and we were all contributing in roughly equal manners.

The idea was that I hid some and everyone else did as well. We hid them as games for each other. If they cost some money, well they did. Everyone paid about the same. It was a ticket to the game.

 

With the micro spews and the general decline in the environment towards caching, its just not the same. Its no longer worth the money. I will hide these international caches and then be done.

 

Will I adopt or pull? Probably pull some and adopt others, but probably pull most of them.

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Your comment was a flame. Probably not a help in the discussion.

It wasn't a flame as much as it was my perception of the unnamed poster of the unidentified log.

 

How else should I see it? The person clearly doesn't enjoy micros that can be reached with a sean, nor does he like easter egg hunts. Apparently, his area has alot of sedan driving cachers who enjoy watching their small children collect easter eggs. Since the local cachers prefer those pursuits to hunting his cache, he archived it.

 

Boo Hoo.

Edited by sbell111
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... Its no longer worth the money. ...

Interesting. I rarely consider the cost-benefit analysis of one type of cache v another. It really doesn't matter to me.

 

Of course, there are plenty of 'regular'-sized caches that cost nothing to place. There are also plenty of micros that cost players upwards of $10-15.

 

no longer worth the money indeed. :P

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This is my take on the topic.  I have been thinking about this for some time and wrote this note weeks ago.  I have been reading it, re-reading it, and thinking about starting a topic to post it.  This topic is a good place for it.  It is my opinion, my feelings.  I may be flamed for it, but it is how I feel about my area in Pennsylvania.

 

This game was started by some technophiles who marveled at what they could do with a Global Positioning System receiver.  They also loved the outdoors, hiking and backpacking and blended their new technical toy with their old hobbies.  Groundspeak and Geocaching.com were founded as a way for someone to promote the hobby and perhaps, someday, make a living from the proceeds.

Many other people began to hear about the game/hobby/obsession and joined in.  However, some of these people only satisfied half of the equation: they loved technology and the thrill of using it to find something, but they did NOT enjoy the outdoors.  They did not like hot weather, cold weather, wildlife, thorns, mud, long hikes, insects, spiders, poison ivy, snakes, or any of the other things that are part of the outdoor experience.  What was the option for these people? - Virtual and locationless caches.  Since, for all practical purposes, these are no longer listed as part of the game the alternative available became urban/suburban micro caches.  They hide them, find them, get their big find numbers and don’t need to do the things they don’t enjoy.  All the assumptions about “you hide what you know” come in at this point.  New geocachers in many areas are mostly seeing micro caches put out.  They see players with hundreds of finds in less than a year.  This is what they emulate for the way they play the game.  Micros are what they put out for their placements and that is the kind of caches they seek to find.  If this is not the case in your locale, you are very fortunate.  Those of us that primarily enjoy the long hikes and the outdoors have become the minority in this hobby.

Finally, this is a commercial enterprise.  The owner wants to maximize his profitability.  No business owner is going to make rules or regulations to alienate a substantial portion of his customers.  Micro caches, either in interesting or lame locations, are here to stay.  Get used to this reality and move on.  Work with geocachers you meet to educate them on interesting cache placements, but don’t expect the game to return to what it was in the beginning.

Very well stated Klatch!

 

I was one of the original cachers in my area and have seen the evolution you accuratly describe. The whining about heat, cold, snakes, poison ivy and ticks has always amazed me. It's like...Duh! this is the outdoors. I suspect some people should of never got involved in geocaching to begin with, but the game has flexed for them so much that it now has mass appeal. Thats both good and bad and your right, it will never again be what it was.

 

My biggest thing I'm proud of about geocaching is that I introduced the hobby to someone two years ago who had never walked a trail in her life. This summer, her and 3 other friends are going to Peru to hike the Inca trail. I dont think many new cachers these days would end up like her. Its just not about that anymore.

 

I'm just thankful that I still have some "Klatch" caches to look forward to doing this spring and summer. Things are looking less and less interesting around here but hopefully I'll be surprised this spring and summer.

 

Keep in touch,

Salvelinus

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This is my take on the topic.  I have been thinking about this for some time and wrote this note weeks ago.  I have been reading it, re-reading it, and thinking about starting a topic to post it.  This topic is a good place for it.  It is my opinion, my feelings.  I may be flamed for it, but it is how I feel about my area in Pennsylvania.

 

This game was started by some technophiles who marveled at what they could do with a Global Positioning System receiver.  They also loved the outdoors, hiking and backpacking and blended their new technical toy with their old hobbies.  Groundspeak and Geocaching.com were founded as a way for someone to promote the hobby and perhaps, someday, make a living from the proceeds.

Many other people began to hear about the game/hobby/obsession and joined in.  However, some of these people only satisfied half of the equation: they loved technology and the thrill of using it to find something, but they did NOT enjoy the outdoors.  They did not like hot weather, cold weather, wildlife, thorns, mud, long hikes, insects, spiders, poison ivy, snakes, or any of the other things that are part of the outdoor experience.  What was the option for these people? - Virtual and locationless caches.  Since, for all practical purposes, these are no longer listed as part of the game the alternative available became urban/suburban micro caches.  They hide them, find them, get their big find numbers and don’t need to do the things they don’t enjoy.  All the assumptions about “you hide what you know” come in at this point.  New geocachers in many areas are mostly seeing micro caches put out.  They see players with hundreds of finds in less than a year.  This is what they emulate for the way they play the game.  Micros are what they put out for their placements and that is the kind of caches they seek to find.  If this is not the case in your locale, you are very fortunate.  Those of us that primarily enjoy the long hikes and the outdoors have become the minority in this hobby.

Finally, this is a commercial enterprise.  The owner wants to maximize his profitability.  No business owner is going to make rules or regulations to alienate a substantial portion of his customers.  Micro caches, either in interesting or lame locations, are here to stay.  Get used to this reality and move on.  Work with geocachers you meet to educate them on interesting cache placements, but don’t expect the game to return to what it was in the beginning.

For the most part, I agree with this 100%. However, you do contradict yourself.

First you say:

What was the option for these people? - Virtual and locationless caches.  Since, for all practical purposes, these are no longer listed as part of the game the alternative available became urban/suburban micro caches.

 

Then later you add:

Finally, this is a commercial enterprise.  The owner wants to maximize his profitability.  No business owner is going to make rules or regulations to alienate a substantial portion of his customers.  Micro caches, either in interesting or lame locations, are here to stay. 

I think the past issues with virtuals, along with the current power trail topic, show TPTB do have some stake in the quality of the game. They have to. Like you said, this site is a commercial venture. If the goal is long-term profitability, they need to take actions to ensure the continued existence of geocaching, even if that means losing some customers in the short term. They are going to have to address cache saturation and "lame" caches, or eventually the game is going to die; either from lack of interest, over-regulation or lawsuits. Will there still be as many newspaper articles promoting geocaching when the only caches left are walmart micros? I also suspect it's only a matter of time before someone gets hurt caching in a walmart or starbucks type parking lot and the legal carp hits the fan with lawsuits flying left and right.

Edited by Mopar
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I agree with this 100%. However, you do contradict yourself.

Yes, it does seem like one. I think, however, that TPTB originally thought the virtual/locationless caches were alienating the ammo box/tupperware crowd who were the vast majority of players at that time. Thus, it was a move to NOT alienate a large portion of their customers. I do not think they anticipated the explosion of micro placements that ensued and now are caught in the situation of handling the micro situation with kid gloves. Again, I have no statistics to support any of this. As I said, it is my feelings from following the forums and observing geocaching in my area.

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Wasn't the original cache essentially a roadside park and bag?

And placed on private property without permission, no less.

 

RK, that's an interesting angle. I randomly went through some of the oldest caches (I randomly picked GC10-GC19, and GC1A-GC1F) to see what they were:

 

Of those 16 caches:

 

4 (GC10, GC11, GC14, GC15) were among Dave Ulmer's old caches that were archived and the coordinates changed, so I couldn't discern any information on them.

 

6 (GC12, GC13, GC16, GC17, GC19, GC1F) appeared to involve at least a fairly long hike.

 

1 (GC1E) is a multi-cache starting not too far from a road, but ending who knows where.

 

5 (GC18, GC1A, GC1B, GC1C, GC1D) were within roughly 900 feet of a road. 2 of those (GC1B, GC1C) appeared to be in very urban environments (1 right next to a building, the other right next to LAX).

 

This is a small sampling, sure, but it seems that even the very oldest caches had a contingent of park & grabs.

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This is a comparison thought of mine. Years ago my family did a lot of fishing in North Dakota and when they stocked salmon in the system many people quit fishing the lake because of all the salmon anglers. What they did not think about was there was suddenly less interest and pressure on the other fish and that made for more room and enjoyment for the rest of us. We are new to Geocaching and excited to get out in the nature of things with less pressure on the areas we will want to explore. Not everyone can afford or is interested in the work / effort part of many hobbis, I am just grateful that I can search for the exciting cache sites.

Thanks for the opportunity to post. EITS

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The beauty of this sport is that there can be something in it for everyone, including players whom the original founders of the sport never dreamed of. That's an odd consequence of advanced technology. The DOD never imagined their system being used to locate manhole covers, much less 35mm film canisters. People for whom "a geocache" means "a walk in the woods" might look with scorn at lightpoles. But... to each his own.

 

Of the hundreds or thousands of caches that might show up in some area-query, some people will adopt the "Pokemon principle" .. gotta try them all. While others, and I'd probably place myself in the same category, might select from that list a half-dozen that look interesting and wind up visiting only three of them, and be perfectly content.

 

I think that we do need to continuously push to encourage people to think of and to try new ideas. But the secret, I think, is to encourage these new branches and explorations: there's really almost no reason to dictate them. (Necessary authority should be exercised with great restraint.) Given ready access to new ideas, and a free hand, people will be naturally inventive and the sport will continue to be Fun... with little or no "limits" being imposed upon it by anyone. Just plunk a seed into the ground, pour on some water, stand back, and watch! :lol: ... ... :P ... ... :) ... ... :P ... ... :).

 

The secret, if there is one, would be "give back to the community the sort of caches that you like best." Geocachers in wheelchairs are out there, setting up caches that others with their limitations can enjoy. Folks who get their jollies by climbing on ropes are setting caches that you can only climb on ropes to get to. Scuba jockies are putting caches under water. In this way, the various naturally-occurring subgroups of cachers within the overall community naturally supply themselves with the kind of entertainment they enjoy. If that happens to include a lot of newbies and/or lunchtime-cachers who put easy 1/1 grabs in urban settings... I say... terrific! Six months from now the game might have adjusted itself in yet a new direction.

Edited by HIPS-meister
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Work with geocachers you meet to educate them on interesting cache placements, but don’t expect the game to return to what it was in the beginning.

This is exactly why the quality of the caches in Palm Springs is so high. The more experienced cachers meet with the less experienced cachers regularly to discuss hiding techniches and strategies (and *gasp*, they don't even get a smilie for these meetings!). Guess what, interesting to lame cache ratio in the Greater Palm Springs area is about 99/1 from my experience. That is pretty awesome.

 

--Marky

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Wasn't the original cache essentially a roadside park and bag?

And placed on private property without permission, no less.

 

RK, that's an interesting angle. I randomly went through some of the oldest caches (I randomly picked GC10-GC19, and GC1A-GC1F) to see what they were:

 

Of those 16 caches:

 

4 (GC10, GC11, GC14, GC15) were among Dave Ulmer's old caches that were archived and the coordinates changed, so I couldn't discern any information on them.

 

6 (GC12, GC13, GC16, GC17, GC19, GC1F) appeared to involve at least a fairly long hike.

 

1 (GC1E) is a multi-cache starting not too far from a road, but ending who knows where.

 

5 (GC18, GC1A, GC1B, GC1C, GC1D) were within roughly 900 feet of a road. 2 of those (GC1B, GC1C) appeared to be in very urban environments (1 right next to a building, the other right next to LAX).

 

This is a small sampling, sure, but it seems that even the very oldest caches had a contingent of park & grabs.

The first cache and a couple others of Dave's as you say were on private land. It's a tree farm that's open to the public. Another one was on BLM land. I hunted three of them before he blew them away. Got DNF's too.

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Has the "sport" changed? Yes, in some ways.

1. There are a lot more people involved.

2. There's a lot more caches to hunt. Both urban and rural.

3. There's a lot more "rules".

4. A lot more people that insist that their "rules" be applied.

5. A lot more people "should" or "shouldn't"

6. There's a lot more micors. Larger percentage. I don't think there was very many when I first started, so the answer has to be yes.

7. I don't really remember if there was a "forums" at that time. If there was it didn't have as many "whiners" as it does now. But then it didn't have as many participants then.

8. There wasn't any local organizations trying to control their little corner of the world.

9. When I want to go caching there was less than 100 caches to choose from. Now it seems there's always a number of rural caches to hunt.

10. There seems to be more people in it for the "numbers" rather than an interesting outing. But as activity grows, people will get involved for many different reasons.

 

At this point in time it looks like just like several other fads. I believe the number of people will decrease in time. I remember the CB radio fad days. The days when it was a status symbol to have a CB antenna on your car. Today, it's GPS in your car. As with the CB fad, this too will fade. It won't go away. The public lands will ban it or established fee schedules, or at a minimum make policies.

 

Will gc.com continue? Depends on how they handle the down turn, when it happens.

 

<Stepping down from soap box now>

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Who says the splattering of micros all over creation doesn't effect traditionals?

 

The archive note of a cache near here:

 

I picked up the cache this morning. Not much activity lately. The local trend of micro caches that the family sedan can drive to and 'Easter Egg hunt' has killed the sport in my opinion. Hiking and scenery has been replaced with adults searching for a film canister in a parking lot.

How sad.

 

Sad, indeed.

 

--RuffRidr

Even if this really happened, which I doubt, the reasoning is just silly.

People who like to hike and enjoy the outdoors aren't suddenly going to feel compelled to spend their weekends in walmart parking lots.

SOME people who never hiked much will discover the joys of the outdoors and will continue to seek ammo boxes. Those who try it and just don't like the "negative" parts of experiencing nature are going to give it up anyway----parking lot micros make no difference at all in their decision!

 

But even if you made this up, RR, at least you generated a lively discussion!

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You folks sure complain a lot.

That's what makes the forums fun!

Unfortunately, that sometimes makes it hard to seperate the wheat from the chaff. For that matter, I believe that just about every poster could fall on either side of that common expression depending on the topic and someone elses view on it.

 

P.S. We also like that you allow us to complain a lot!

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Even if this really happened, which I doubt, the reasoning is just silly.

People who like to hike and enjoy the outdoors aren't suddenly going to feel compelled to spend their weekends in walmart parking lots.

SOME people who never hiked much will discover the joys of the outdoors and will continue to seek ammo boxes. Those who try it and just don't like the "negative" parts of experiencing nature are going to give it up anyway----parking lot micros make no difference at all in their decision!

 

But even if you made this up, RR, at least you generated a lively discussion!

So you think I lied about this? :rolleyes: And then you go on to suggest that I created the log to create controversy. I'm not sure what I have done to illicit this accusation. Sure, I've been vocal about something that I think is a growing concern in this sport. But do I hate micros? NO! In fact some of my favorite caches are micro caches. Believe me, some of the micro hiders around here are very creative. What I hate is crappy caches. Caches that lazy cachers put about less than a minutes worth of effort into. These seem to be spreading like wildfire. Thanks to these types of caches, I have one less cache that I like to hunt in my area. Oh, but they're not hurting anyone, are they?

 

--RuffRidr

 

Edited to prevent me from getting a warning. :lol:

Edited by RuffRidr
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The archive note of a cache near here:

 

I picked up the cache this morning. Not much activity lately. The local trend of micro caches that the family sedan can drive to and 'Easter Egg hunt' has killed the sport in my opinion. Hiking and scenery has been replaced with adults searching for a film canister in a parking lot.

How sad.

 

Sad, indeed.

 

--RuffRidr

That is sad... :rolleyes:

 

Which cache was it?

You ignored my post (in which I was only curious to read the logs leading up to the archival) and flamed the poster who questioned the validity of the archival altogether. I AM saddened to see a cache archived for the reasons stated, so I must ask again..

Which cache was it?

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I predicted a couple of years ago that micros would be the wave of the future, looks like I was right. That doesn't mean it has to be one or the other. It's a big world, plenty of room for variety.

 

Sheesh, I remember a local cacher who years ago would brag in one thread that he had over 100 caches within 20 miles of his house, but complain in another thread about the 30 micros within 50 miles.

Edited by cachew nut
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I've been seeing caches around here that are archived by approvers after not being found for a while. All of these have had a DNF prior to archival, and I assume (and hope) that the approvers try to contact the owners.... But I wonder if there will come a time when an approver will just archive any cache that hasn't been found in X number of months

I hope not. Something the Ohio guys do regularly and we do in Michigan infrequently is to run a "lonely cache club" contest. They list the X loneliest caches in the area and people get points for finding them. Bjorn74 can tell you more details, but it's a good way to get people out.

 

On the subject of archiving a good cache because of bad caches - I think it is backwards logic.

 

But what I've seen is that you place a cache, it gets visited a lot, then visits dwindle because everyone's found it and only the new guys are going to look. Enter lame micro nearby. Everyone rushes out to visit it too, eventually its visits will dwindle.

 

Add winter into that and yeah - I think a lot more families who aren't so hard core are getting into caching. They like the park'n'grabs but probably don't relish the thought of bundling the kids and dragging them a mile down an un-maintenanced trail to a better cache.

 

There's a lot of factors at play in the caching world. Size/quality of the cache is one, but there are many others.

 

In any case - it'd be nice if someone got in touch with the guy and encouraged him to reconsider. People always appreciate a good cache. They do the others because they're slam dunks, but they'll never enjoy them as much.

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The beauty of this sport is that there can be something in it for everyone, including players whom the original founders of the sport never dreamed of. That's an odd consequence of advanced technology. The DOD never imagined their system being used to locate manhole covers, much less 35mm film canisters. People for whom "a geocache" means "a walk in the woods" might look with scorn at lightpoles. But... to each his own.

 

Of the hundreds or thousands of caches that might show up in some area-query, some people will adopt the "Pokemon principle" .. gotta try them all. While others, and I'd probably place myself in the same category, might select from that list a half-dozen that look interesting and wind up visiting only three of them, and be perfectly content.

 

I think that we do need to continuously push to encourage people to think of and to try new ideas. But the secret, I think, is to encourage these new branches and explorations: there's really almost no reason to dictate them. (Necessary authority should be exercised with great restraint.) Given ready access to new ideas, and a free hand, people will be naturally inventive and the sport will continue to be Fun... with little or no "limits" being imposed upon it by anyone. Just plunk a seed into the ground, pour on some water, stand back, and watch! B) ... ... B) ... ... B) ... ... :rolleyes: ... ... :lol:.

 

The secret, if there is one, would be "give back to the community the sort of caches that you like best." Geocachers in wheelchairs are out there, setting up caches that others with their limitations can enjoy. Folks who get their jollies by climbing on ropes are setting caches that you can only climb on ropes to get to. Scuba jockies are putting caches under water. In this way, the various naturally-occurring subgroups of cachers within the overall community naturally supply themselves with the kind of entertainment they enjoy. If that happens to include a lot of newbies and/or lunchtime-cachers who put easy 1/1 grabs in urban settings... I say... terrific! Six months from now the game might have adjusted itself in yet a new direction.

After following this post over the past few days, I think this post pretty much sums it up.

 

To each their own, but I think we should encourage all of those people we bring to the sport to contribute to the community with as many new and diverse ideas as possible. B)

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Even if this really happened, which I doubt, the reasoning is just silly.

People who like to hike and enjoy the outdoors aren't suddenly going to feel compelled to spend their weekends in walmart parking lots.

SOME people who never hiked much will discover the joys of the outdoors and will continue to seek ammo boxes. Those who try it and just don't like the "negative" parts of experiencing nature are going to give it up anyway----parking lot micros make no difference at all in their decision!

 

But even if you made this up, RR, at least you generated a lively discussion!

So you think I lied about this? ;) And then you go on to suggest that I created the log to create controversy. I'm not sure what I have done to illicit this accusation. Sure, I've been vocal about something that I think is a growing concern in this sport. But do I hate micros? NO! In fact some of my favorite caches are micro caches. Believe me, some of the micro hiders around here are very creative. What I hate is crappy caches. Caches that lazy cachers put about less than a minutes worth of effort into. These seem to be spreading like wildfire. Thanks to these types of caches, I have one less cache that I like to hunt in my area. Oh, but they're not hurting anyone, are they?

 

--RuffRidr

 

Edited to prevent me from getting a warning. :P

Dude... You missed the point. I wasn't knocking you for making it up.

I'm saying the concept behind the fabrication is frivolous.

The stance is unsupportable.

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In our area, Cola SC, there are many new micros, but they are evil evil evil. Very few easy bags here. For some reason folks here are putting in the effort to make good hides. Puzzle, Literary and Good multis make up a large percentage of the new hides in these parts. And it's amazing that the Dollar store has anything left when you see the good quality swag in the new hides. So.... In some areas geocaching is better than ever.

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Even if this really happened, which I doubt, the reasoning is just silly.

People who like to hike and enjoy the outdoors aren't suddenly going to feel compelled to spend their weekends in walmart parking lots.

SOME people who never hiked much will discover the joys of the outdoors and will continue to seek ammo boxes. Those who try it and just don't like the "negative" parts of experiencing nature are going to give it up anyway----parking lot micros make no difference at all in their decision!

 

But even if you made this up, RR, at least you generated a lively discussion!

So you think I lied about this? :) And then you go on to suggest that I created the log to create controversy. I'm not sure what I have done to illicit this accusation. Sure, I've been vocal about something that I think is a growing concern in this sport. But do I hate micros? NO! In fact some of my favorite caches are micro caches. Believe me, some of the micro hiders around here are very creative. What I hate is crappy caches. Caches that lazy cachers put about less than a minutes worth of effort into. These seem to be spreading like wildfire. Thanks to these types of caches, I have one less cache that I like to hunt in my area. Oh, but they're not hurting anyone, are they?

 

--RuffRidr

 

Edited to prevent me from getting a warning. :D

Dude... You missed the point. I wasn't knocking you for making it up.

I'm saying the concept behind the fabrication is frivolous.

The stance is unsupportable.

Sure seemed like you were saying that RR "made it up" to me.

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I'm not saying he made it up, but I couldn't locate the cache in question. How about a link?

The cache in question: Moccasin GAP

 

For the record I don't agree with the reasoning behind the hider removing the cache either. Regardless it HAS happened, and to say that the explosion of micros doesn't have an effect on the sport is a fallacy. This is not the only hider in this area to give up. I know of two other cachers here (one of which found some of the most stunning areas around) who have quit much for the same reason.

 

--RuffRidr

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I'm not saying he made it up, but I couldn't locate the cache in question.  How about a link?

The cache in question: Moccasin GAP

 

For the record I don't agree with the reasoning behind the hider removing the cache either. Regardless it HAS happened, and to say that the explosion of micros doesn't have an effect on the sport is a fallacy. This is not the only hider in this area to give up. I know of two other cachers here (one of which found some of the most stunning areas around) who have quit much for the same reason.

 

--RuffRidr

My take on this is if this hider hadn't used this excuse for quitting he'd have found another. People who are in something because they enjoy it don't stop just because others do it differently. My favorite caches are those that take me to places I haven't seen before and I don't care whether it is a micro or a traditional cache. 30 years ago I'd have tromped however far in the woods to find whatever and wouldn't have cared about poisonous plants, snakes, bugs or much of anything else, but now there are times I can do that and times I cannot and I just don't buy comments that I shouldn't be caching. There are a lot of people out caching who just aren't able to compete at the level of a marine recruit who still get a LOT out of caching. I love the creative micros, the ones that really make you think and try to get inside the mind of the hider (although at times that can be scary..lol). My absolute favorites though are the ones that show me something I've not seen before or that teach me something about the history of the area I am in or about the foundation of this country.

I don't believe micros are hurting anyone, I think some are just making excuses trying to get everyone to play the game THEIR way or not at all.

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The hider felt that there was too many micros so he archived his regular-sized cache? My, that's an interesting bit of logic. I suspect that there is something else going on.

 

Everyone else won't play the way he wants, so he's taking his toys and going home. :blink:

I don't think it's funny. You just don't get it do you.

 

This isn't a protest. It's resignation. He's given up on geocaching.

 

This cacher enjoyed the "significant hike" cache and that's what he hid. He has archived all but one and that one will be gone soon also. You think it's funny. I think it's sad. He doesn't see that there is a future for this type of cache. Few people in his area are hunting them and even fewer are hiding them. The old school geocachers are disappearing and they won't be coming back. The significant hikers aren't going to give this site a second look after they type in their home zip and see that this game is hide-and-seek in parking lots and "find number xx out of yy caches today". My favorite hiders left the game a long time ago and I know that they won't be coming back. It's sad. I'm not laughing. I can forsee the day that I will lose interest and quit hiding also. When the micro bombers hit my hometown a la Nashville, it will be time to go.

 

Frankly, I don't buy that urban micros are killing the game. If I want to go take a hike and find a cache, I can. If I choose to go after an easy micro, I can do that too.

 

Enjoy it while you still can.

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