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Was I Too Harsh??


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He is using his first amendment rights, and didn't use profanity.

excellent point......everyone has the right to be harsh. or a jerk, or whatever (dead_white_man, I'm not saying you are)

 

on the other hand, in a sport as social as this, being friendly and courteous should go a lot further than exercising "rights"

 

my opinion; you weren't very nice

I agree with what some others have said about posting little to nothing in the log if you didn't like it.

The first amendment doesn't apply to cache logs. The owner and the listing service are not the government, and they haven't passed any laws abridging freedom of speech.

 

Geocaching etiquette does apply. I was glad to see that the OP edited his log to get his point across a bit more gently. Perhaps in the future he will use similar wording if he encounters similar situations.

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and round we go again. the OP said "I am perfectly happy logging my grab and go, but shouldn't I be permitted to comment? "

he enjoys the easy ones, but why not give your opinion? i would rather a person tells me why my cache is lame rather than tnlnsl so i know what the problem is. some of the suggestions above were probably more tactful wording than the original log.

 

if there are 2 to 3 acres here, could you possibly place a larger container and be more than 528' away, or is this location too far away to place a cache?

He didn't say "He enjoyed the grab and go" he just complained. I guess I must just come from another generation that appreciates people's efforts and don't understand this kind of thing where so many folks gripe so much about everything and don't seem to care about hurting someone's feelings that did something for them. Remember the IGNORE button, don't go after those awful micros

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I like your current log best DWM.

 

What I see in this thread is very similar to what is going wrong in America. You have a small but very vocal minority (people who enjoy thoughtless or lame caches) that are quick to criticize, or even attempt to silence the majority when they don't like what the majority has to say.

 

They use code words like "don't hunt this type of cache", or "use your ignore feature". They preach tolerance, but offer no solution to the problem. This reminds me of the debate between Liberals and Conservatives.

Indeed. A box in a park is the perfect allegory for the gradual decline/decay of American society. ;)

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Hoo Lawd - new meat! Hijack time!

 

Team Perks was making a joke, but the reality is that those obsessed with the destruction of this game remind me of the doom-sayers of American society.

 

Exactly how is American society in decline?

 

My life and that of those around me is booming! We live in the fastest-growing healtiest happiest times the world has ever seen - we're out burning money to chase tupperware with billions of dollars of technology and having a ball!

 

One thing graveyard caches do for me is keep me constantly aware of what American society has accomplished in a very short period.

 

Our life is so easy and so much fun that even our recent ancestors would never believe it!

 

Decline? I don't think so!

 

Ed

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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...What I see in this thread is very similar to what is going wrong in America. You have a small but very vocal minority (people who enjoy thoughtless or lame caches) that are quick to criticize, or even attempt to silence the majority when they don't like what the majority has to say. ...

Was there a census that I missed? What I've noticed is that there are a few posters who are getting bent because everyone isn't planting the caches that they like best. Many other people are telling them to stop trying to ruin everyone elses fun. ;):tired:;)

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Personally i think what he said is fine. He is using his first amendment rights, and didn't use profanity.  I think if someone places a lame micro, people who log it have the right to say "it's a lame micro".

Yes, by all means, excercise your First Amendment Rights! That's exactly what this issue boils down to.

Consider the alternative:

King Arthur: I am your king.

Woman: Well I didn't vote for you.

King Arthur: You don't vote for kings.

Woman: Well how'd you become king then?

[Angelic music plays... ]

King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king.

Dennis: [interrupting] Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

Dennis: Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you.

Dennis: Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away.

 

Dennis: Come see the violence inherent in the system. Help, help, I'm being repressed.

:):cry::o;);):tired::tired::tired::tired::tired::lol:;):lol::lol:

Sorry, I was excercising my right to be silly. :P

 

edit sp.

Edited by wimseyguy
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...What I see in this thread is very similar to what is going wrong in America. You have a small but very vocal minority (people who enjoy thoughtless or lame caches) that are quick to criticize, or even attempt to silence the majority when they don't like what the majority has to say. ...

Was there a census that I missed? What I've noticed is that there are a few posters who are getting bent because everyone isn't planting the caches that they like best. Many other people are telling them to stop trying to ruin everyone elses fun. ;):tired:;)

Majority, Minority hmm.....I don't know, I'm just having a blast playing a game and enjoying the efforts of others, am I majority or minority. As much as I enjoy posting on the forums it's lunchtime and I'm going geocaching and oh no they're micros in a park both of them. Seriously they are. Have fun.

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I think your original log was OK, although not the nicest. Your second log was great. I definitely wouldn't change it if asked.

 

I don't see a problem with telling people what you think about their caches. I do think people on here are too thin skinned and shouldn't take everything so personally. Use remarks like that as motivation to make your next hide better, jeez.

 

--RuffRidr

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I was speaking in general terms. I was not directly referring to the cache in question.

 

I think the problem is that geocaching is going through a large growth spurt, and their are different opinions on how the game should be played. Those who want to revert back to the "old days" where caches were hidden in nicer areas, and werent Altoids tins magnetized on road signs, are not in agreement with the new "numbers players."

 

I look for all caches, but am not afraid to be truthful in my online logs when the cache is hidden in a less than appealing spot/or area.

 

Examples of my dislikes are caches hidden in "shady" neighborhoods, where families shouldn't bring their kids ( I skip these caches when I realize the area is unsafe)

 

Caches hidden 10 feet from private property (residences, businesses), without permission from the owner.

 

Caches hidden in cul-de-sacs in the middle of the street, under a sewer acces cover.

 

I feel it's my duty to warn future cachers that an area is unsafe, or less than appealing so prospective caches can decide whether they want to find the cache or not.

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The word "silly" is what made it harsh.

 

I usually just comment something like: "What a beautiful and diverse area for caching - a lot of quality places to hide a full size cache nearby."

 

If they get the point - great! If not - I'll have fun on down the trail.

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...Was I too harsh??????

It's all in your outlook. Did they set out to ruin your day by placing that cache? Did they try to insult your geoaching intelligence? Nope. They were not Harsh when they placed the cache. The word silly should never have crept into the original comment. Some other comment like how this area could support a larger cache so you could unload a bunch of TB's in your pack might of made the point. Better still a different comment has a shot at getting the cache upgraded, which is your goal, or why bring up the subject?

 

To address a couple of other comments.

 

The vast majority of finds are on urban caches. To say the "majority hates LUMs" (lame urban micros) is not something you can gather from the numbers of finds. There are far and away more urban cachers than anything else.

 

It's my opinion that the majority really doesnt' give a rats as$ about the debate and just wants to have fun. At least thats the views expressed in the local forums. The only type of cache that pisses almost all the locals off are from a specific cacher and they show signs of being psychotic, but that's a different ball of wax.

 

Back to the original topic. I don't think your cache owner is psychotic. Their reply was nice considering the insult to their cache, and while it didn't live up to your standard, you can tell they do care about their cache or they would not have bothered with a responce. That's a good sign.

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Anyone that thinks that "silly" is harsh should stop tivo'ing Seasame Street and Barney. ;) I'm not talking about for their kids, and sorry if what i said is "offensive". I know some people enjoy those shows. ;)

 

 

P.S. Just an opinion. And this is a long topic, eh?

Edited by Voncachstein
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if there are 2 to 3 acres here, could you possibly place a larger container and be more than 528' away, or is this location too far away to place a cache?

It might be possible, 2-3 acres usually dos'nt leave room for 2 caches, but possibly. That is moot since I don't live anywhere near it, I would have to make a "vacation cache" which would not be approvable.

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If someone wants to hide a lame micro cache, then they should be ready for people to say in their logs that this is a lame cache.

I sure do want to agree with you. I sure would like to be able to say 'Hey, this one's lame' if its hidden in the homeless camp or next to a dumpster in a bad area of town.

 

That being said, the cache in this thread seems perfectly fine, on the face. It was a micro in a rest area. The rest area apparently included a nice little park. Perhaps the park could have housed a regular-sized cache, but I don't know if that alone makes a microcache lame.

 

The cache owner may have wanted to just give a nice little quick cache for people driving through the area, rather than have them take a hike for a larger cache.

 

I would hate to place a negative log on a cache like this one because it might chase away hunters who would really enjoy it.

 

I think that the 'this cache is lame' logs should be reserved for caches with no redeeming value and I haven't worked out for myself what the criteria for 'no redeeming value' is.

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Tact, seems to always be my problem.  Give me a tactful example how I should have  logged it.  I thought it was tactful.  What I wanted to say was "This cache stinks" and "Why did you waste my time" But instead I asked why they didn't use a full size whith so many good spots around.

Tact, as I understand it, is not a binary concept. ;)

Ah, but it is! You're either tactful or you're not (binary). The problem lies in the fact that in this case the binary reader is not in sync with the binary sender. I'm pretty sure it's an operator headspace and timing error. ;)

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What I've noticed is that there are a few posters who are getting bent because everyone isn't planting the caches that they like best

 

Really? In what forum? Over on Navicache maybe? Because if that's your take, you certainly ain't reading (or at least understanding) what some of us are saying here.

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Again, let me say, in case you lost track of the original post. I would be perfectly happy to log it, especially if there had not been so many good places within 100 ft of this micro. My question was simply "was my post to harsh" the answers seem to be split on that, so I have edited my post to be less offensive. (although I fail to see how it could have been in the first place)

I don't believe that I lost track of anything. I guess my point is that everyone has the right to place the type of caches they wish where they wish as long as they meet the geocaching.com guidelines and are approved. It is not the place of any of us to judge them and to tell the cache owner what and where their caches should be. It is our place to hunt the caches we like and to ignore those we don't so IMHO your post was not only harsh but inappropriate. The fact that there are many good places within 100 ft is your opinion and need not be shared by anyone else. When you become a geocaching.com approver then and only then do you have the right to tell others where their caches should be placed. Until then you do not have the right to post such comments in cache logs and the owners of caches you post such logs to have the right to delete them.

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Again, let me say, in case you lost track of the original post.  I would be perfectly happy to log it,  especially if  there had not been so many good places within  100 ft of this micro.  My question was simply "was my post to harsh"  the answers seem to be split on that, so I have edited my post to be less offensive. (although I fail to see how it could have been in the first place)

I don't believe that I lost track of anything. I guess my point is that everyone has the right to place the type of caches they wish where they wish as long as they meet the geocaching.com guidelines and are approved. It is not the place of any of us to judge them and to tell the cache owner what and where their caches should be. It is our place to hunt the caches we like and to ignore those we don't so IMHO your post was not only harsh but inappropriate. The fact that there are many good places within 100 ft is your opinion and need not be shared by anyone else. When you become a geocaching.com approver then and only then do you have the right to tell others where their caches should be placed. Until then you do not have the right to post such comments in cache logs and the owners of caches you post such logs to have the right to delete them.

They CERTAINLY have the right. I did not seek to take that from them. I merely asked a rhetorical question, "why the micro" It was meant as a suggestion. If as you say in your post that I don't even have the RIGHT to suggest an improvement, then you are being despotical. I do concede however that I could have been more tactful in my approach.

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their are different opinions on how the game should be played.

 

Those who want to revert back to the "old days" where caches were hidden in nicer areas, and werent Altoids tins magnetized on road signs, are not in agreement with the new "numbers players."

 

I feel it's my duty to warn future cachers that an area is unsafe, or less than appealing so prospective caches can decide whether they want to find the cache or not.

 

Some issue with your post:

 

"their are different opinions on how the game should be played."

Why is your opinion more valid than mine?

 

New Numbers players? I ve been a numbers hound since 03-2002.

 

Your "duty" to warn me? Did you have to fill out a form or something to be the King of Cache town? Why do you get to decide what is worth going after for me?

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If someone is hiding a lame micro, they should just describe it as such in the cache page. Then, if someone makes negative comments, it is truly bad form because it's exactly what the cacher should have expected.

 

If someone describes a cache as the most challenging that is the product of days of research and weeks of preparation, and I go find a magnetic key case stuck on a lampost, I will make comments at least through email to express my disgust with the discrepency between the pitch and the product.

 

If, on the other hand, someone lists it as "a quick drive-by you can snag on your way to lunch," I have no grounds for a complaint if I thought it was too easy. A lot of people like the easy micros. Label them clearly so those who want em can have em. Those who don't want em and go after em anyway, well, I don't know about "rights", but making negative comments at that point places you in the universal category of Pooty Head. ;)

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Trust someone who knows, the chance of your repost being deleted approach 100%. The chance of you being able to outlast the cache owner in the ensuing war approaches 0%.

I remember your situation from a few years ago and I still think you got hosed.

 

I had an experience with a local who hid a long multi. Between stages 1 and 2 I took a little detour to check out a birdwatching spot I liked in the same park. I happened to stumble upon the final cache and I admitted it in my log. The cache owner deleted my find because he felt I cheated. I just kept reposting. I finally outlasted them after about 2 weeks. They eventually gave up the hobby anyway.

 

If I feel strongly enough about my comments about any cache I'll keep re-logging if the cache owner deletes me. I use "Found it. TNLN" when I didn't enjoy the hunt for the cache for some reason. I don't make any other comment. I've heard that one of the locals considers that to be rude. ;) What am I supposed to do, not say anything at all? I might as well give up the hobby.

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Again, let me say, in case you lost track of the original post.  I would be perfectly happy to log it,  especially if  there had not been so many good places within  100 ft of this micro.  My question was simply "was my post to harsh"  the answers seem to be split on that, so I have edited my post to be less offensive. (although I fail to see how it could have been in the first place)

The reason your post was offensive is that you should realize that *every* cache is a gift, a treasure - if not from God himself, then at least from the cacher. They're all good caches! Most cachers try to convey something deep and meaningful from within their very soul. Consider the time and effort and expense the fellow in question put into placing this cache. A film canister ($Free), a scrap of paper (free or close to it), and the time - (first tree found in the park - near 0.) There is, of course, the time spent finding the park. Maybe that took a real long time. How can you possibly turn up your nose at this VALUABLE gift?!? I'm stunned. Were you not overwhelmed by the adventure and the experience the hider wanted you to share?

 

And consider the emotional trauma - yes trauma - you've inflicted on the poor hider! Suddenly they've had to face the fact that not everything they hide is viewed as super, super fun by everyone. This is CRUSHING! Coming home to the "I found it!" logs is the high point of the day for so many. Luckily there'll be many, many other logs that say "wow, what a great cache", whether true or not, to reinforce the tender ego of the hider. So hopefully the damage isn't terminal.

 

Or perhaps it's that many hiders completely lack the intellectual honesty and objectivity to accept any criticism of their cache hides, whether the criticism is valid or invalid.

 

You decide which! I know which one I think it is.

 

While your thinking about this, keep in mind that everything is good. All caches are good. Everything on TV is good. Every meal you've ever had, or ever will have, is good. (Even the ones that send you to the hospital with salmonella - mmm good meal.) Every repair ever done to your vehicle was a good one, even if it didn't actually fix the problem you brought it in for. If you can't quite grasp this, please contact the Eli Lilly pharmaceutical corporation. They have products that are quite helpful in maintaining this mindset. They are very widely used here in North Dallas, I can tell you. Consult your physician - these products may help you surpress your desire to evaluate anything in a negative manner.

 

By the way, our inability to agree on "what is not good" here on gc.com means that everything that's ever happened to you in your life - every experience you've ever had - has been - you guessed it - good. Because certainly, no matter what's happened to you in life, there's likely someone, quite possibly a handicapped person, who might have enjoyed it. At least that's what I've come to understand from reading the forums.

 

Remember - it's all good!

;):tired::tired::tired::tired::D;):tired::lol:;):lol::lol::cry::o:P:):)

 

BTW, I didn't think your original log was too harsh.

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Again, let me say, in case you lost track of the original post.  I would be perfectly happy to log it,  especially if  there had not been so many good places within  100 ft of this micro.  My question was simply "was my post to harsh"  the answers seem to be split on that, so I have edited my post to be less offensive. (although I fail to see how it could have been in the first place)

The reason your post was offensive is that you should realize that *every* cache is a gift, a treasure - if not from God himself, then at least from the cacher. They're all good caches! Most cachers try to convey something deep and meaningful from within their very soul. Consider the time and effort and expense the fellow in question put into placing this cache. A film canister ($Free), a scrap of paper (free or close to it), and the time - (first tree found in the park - near 0.) There is, of course, the time spent finding the park. Maybe that took a real long time. How can you possibly turn up your nose at this VALUABLE gift?!? I'm stunned. Were you not overwhelmed by the adventure and the experience the hider wanted you to share?

 

And consider the emotional trauma - yes trauma - you've inflicted on the poor hider! Suddenly they've had to face the fact that not everything they hide is viewed as super, super fun by everyone. This is CRUSHING! Coming home to the "I found it!" logs is the high point of the day for so many. Luckily there'll be many, many other logs that say "wow, what a great cache", whether true or not, to reinforce the tender ego of the hider. So hopefully the damage isn't terminal.

 

Or perhaps it's that many hiders completely lack the intellectual honesty and objectivity to accept any criticism of their cache hides, whether the criticism is valid or invalid.

 

You decide which! I know which one I think it is.

 

While your thinking about this, keep in mind that everything is good. All caches are good. Everything on TV is good. Every meal you've ever had, or ever will have, is good. (Even the ones that send you to the hospital with salmonella - mmm good meal.) Every repair ever done to your vehicle was a good one, even if it didn't actually fix the problem you brought it in for. If you can't quite grasp this, please contact the Eli Lilly pharmaceutical corporation. They have products that are quite helpful in maintaining this mindset. They are very widely used here in North Dallas, I can tell you. Consult your physician - these products may help you surpress your desire to evaluate anything in a negative manner.

 

By the way, our inability to agree on "what is not good" here on gc.com means that everything that's ever happened to you in your life - every experience you've ever had - has been - you guessed it - good. Because certainly, no matter what's happened to you in life, there's likely someone, quite possibly a handicapped person, who might have enjoyed it. At least that's what I've come to understand from reading the forums.

 

Remember - it's all good!

;):tired::tired::tired::tired::D;):tired::lol:;):lol::lol::cry::o:P:):)

 

BTW, I didn't think your original log was too harsh.

Thank you Mr. Benchmark!!!!

Finally a post that shows SOMBODY understands!!!

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...While your thinking about this, keep in mind that everything is good. All caches are good. Everything on TV is good. Every meal you've ever had, or ever will have, is good. (Even the ones that send you to the hospital with salmonella - mmm good meal.) Every repair ever done to your vehicle was a good one, even if it didn't actually fix the problem you brought it in for. ...

Interesting post. I can certainly see that you don't see caches placed for the benefit of others to find as being a gift. Of this, we certainly disagree.

 

Your examples were interesting also. They are not necessarily on point, however.

 

Everything on TV is not necessarily good in everyone's opinion. However, for programs to survive, they must have some utility for someone.

 

If I'm in a restaurant and my meal is bad, I will likely mention it. Of course, if I order brussel sprouts and then don't like them, its not their fault. This actually reminds me of something else. If I have been invited into someone's home and I don't like the meal, I will NEVER mention it. I would not mention it because it would be rude.

 

If a shop failed to fix a problem with my jeep, I would certainly bring it up. If a friend was working on my car for free and couldn't fix it. No big deal.

 

You see, it is OK to bring up problems when you are a customer. Its not the same as when someone has given you something for free.

 

Consider the time and effort and expense the fellow in question put into placing this cache. A film canister ($Free), a scrap of paper (free or close to it), and the time - (first tree found in the park - near 0.) There is, of course, the time spent finding the park.

 

OK, I'll bite. I'll consider the time and effort. Someone is playing the game and decides that they want to hide a cache. They know of a nice little park in an interstate rest area. They worry that a regular-sized cache might get muggled since thousands of people stop in this area every day, but they really want to introduce the park to people who would not necessarily find it otherwise. They decide to place a micro because they can hide it better (it works to as the DNFs attest). This isn't the end of their 'time and effort', however, because as a responsible cache owner, they understand that they must be available to spring into action if anybody posts a problem with their cache.

 

Thinking about problems with caches and responsible ownership, I noticed that the original posters caches have not been free of repair needs. Two of the four caches have, in the recent past spent at least a month before needed repairs were made and another requires frequent repairs due to its placement. Kinda lame.

 

One should not throw stones if one lives in a glass home. ;)

Edited by sbell111
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Thinking about problems with caches and responsible ownership, I noticed that the original posters caches have not been free of repair needs. Two of the four caches have, in the recent past spent at least a month before needed repairs were made and another requires frequent repairs due to its placement. Kinda lame.

 

One should not throw stones if one lives in a glass home. ;)

Seems sbell has a problem of "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" He was able to research my caches and found that they were in need of repair twice in the last 6 months. A little more research would show that fully half the caches in my area were also down for repair those times. Thus is the devistating power of the Ohio river. She only floods like that every 40 years or so, but perhaps if it floods every 40 years, we should have caches in the ohio valley. By the same reasoning, they shouldn't have caches in Florida where hurricanes can wipe them out. Or So. Cal where mudslides and earthquakes can be a problem

Sorry sbell, you are way off.

Again my topic was simple, was I too harsh? But since this thread, like most of the others in this forum seem to do, has degenerated into a fingerpointing and namecalling free for all, I shall close it

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Interesting post. I can certainly see that you don't see caches placed for the benefit of others to find as being a gift. Of this, we certainly disagree.

 

OK, I'll bite. I'll consider the time and effort. Someone is playing the game and decides that they want to hide a cache. They know of a nice little park in an interstate rest area. They worry that a regular-sized cache might get muggled since thousands of people stop in this area every day, but they really want to introduce the park to people who would not necessarily find it otherwise. They decide to place a micro because they can hide it better (it works to as the DNFs attest). This isn't the end of their 'time and effort', however, because as a responsible cache owner, they understand that they must be available to spring into action if anybody posts a problem with their cache.

I'm delighted to see people here have the ability to evaluate anything - I was beginning to wonder.

 

No, I see them as being a gift - just not all gifts are equal. Some are well thought out and appreciated. Some are well thought out, and just don't work out, through nobody's fault. And some are really gifts for the giver, not the receiver. I assert that many of these hides are hidden as a gift to the hider, not the finder. The hider gets a slew of "I found it logs - this is the best ever" logs. Some people LIVE for these logs - I wasn't kidding about that. Why hide one when you can hide 10 and get 10 times as many emails telling you how great you are? So no, I'm not impressed when someone gives me a gift "for me" that's really a gift for themselves.

 

Maintenance time and effort for a film-can hide. I'm not impressed. Last cache I hid took 8 hours over 3 days to hide. (Not listed here.) I'll probably walk many miles maintaining it. It contained, among other things, a Sure Fire G2 flashlight (FTF prize), and a pair of FSR radios. Remember the old saying "It's the thought that counts?" Well, how much thought went into the film can hide? Apparently the OP thought "not enough."

 

What I see is the complete lack of ability to discuss whether or not someone LIKED your gift (or in this case cache)- even if this is done in a tactful way. (Not an easy thing, this is never good news.) I might be disappointed if someone didn't enjoy a gift I gave them - but if they didn't, I'd want to know about it because if I don't, I'll continue to give them things that they don't enjoy. It would be much more pleasant if this was handled politely, obviously.

 

I have no idea whether or not the OP's complaints are even valid. Maybe anything bigger than a thimble is muggle-bait in that park, and the OP is just cranky and likes to complain. If I had hid the cache in question, I'd tell the OP to go ahead and hide something better there, and see how that worked out for him. Or maybe I'd think about it and change what I did, or maybe I'd just keep it in the back of my mind, and throw in a larger cache every now and then. (Or maybe I'd ignore it.) But the point is I'd KNOW something. How is someone supposed to know WHAT people enjoy if all we ever tell them is "woohoo - this is just the most funnest cache ever?"

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You see, it is OK to bring up problems when you are a customer. Its not the same as when someone has given you something for free.

I paid my premium membership here - 2 years running now. So am I not a customer of this site? The caches I'm not enjoying are listed here - is this website not their product? Sure, it's a listing service, but ultimately if the content here isn't to my liking, I'm going to stop buying their product. (premium membership.) So where am I supposed to complain? Here on the forums, where I'm told "If you aren't having fun, you just aren't doing it right?"

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Re opened by request of jaimez

For the record. I didn't "request" the thread reopened. I only posted a link to this once-locked thread in another thread.

 

I have little interest in this topic being open or closed. I was mostly planning to stay out of it, especially since I'm one of those who often don't sugar coat my experience at a cache.

 

Despite all the call for a cache rating system, it seems that many (some? most?) really don't want to know if their cache wasn't very interesting, or scenic, or whatever.

 

I have learned a little from reading this thread, and perhaps in the future I will be more forgiving in my logs of caches that obviously had little thought put into them. I may still bring up maintenance issues.

 

I'm not just a whiny stick in the mud, either. If a cache is well thought out, has a great view, is cleverly hidden, or a combination of those or other fun characteristics, my logs will gush with the enjoyment I got.

 

Jamie

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If a cache has no redeeming value, does that mean that it is lame? I have a cache that right in the cache description I have said that there is no redeeming value to it. It is only there for the accomplishment of the find as it was the first one (that I know of) in this area. If you read the logs, you will see that no one has said it was lame.

Yeah, I agree that there is quite a bit of trash around (it is across the street from a recycling center), but that makes a good opportunity to practice CITO!

;);)

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If a cache has no redeeming value, does that mean that it is lame? I have a cache that right in the cache description I have said that there is no redeeming value to it. It is only there for the accomplishment of the find as it was the first one (that I know of) in this area. If you read the logs, you will see that no one has said it was lame.

Yeah, I agree that there is quite a bit of trash around (it is across the street from a recycling center), but that makes a good opportunity to practice CITO!

;);)

I closed this once because I don't want it to degenerate into yet 1 more thread about what is and isn't lame. This is actually about whether or not any criticism is allowed in the log.

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If a cache has no redeeming value, does that mean that it is lame?  I have a cache that right in the cache description I have said that there is no redeeming value to it.  It is only there for the accomplishment of the find as it was the first one (that I know of) in this area.  If you read the logs, you will see that no one has said it was lame.

Yeah, I agree that there is quite a bit of trash around (it is across the street from a recycling center), but that makes a good opportunity to practice CITO! 

;)  ;)

I closed this once because I don't want it to degenerate into yet 1 more thread about what is and isn't lame. This is actually about whether or not any criticism is allowed in the log.

You can, of course, do whatever you want but who wants to listen to unwarranted and rude comments about something they have done for you and me. My opinion is if it needs maintenance, is on private property or the coordinates are off, please do say something about it. But just because you didn't like a cache that was well advertised as to what it was doesn't mean you have to say what you did. Give constructive criticism, good remarks or say nothing at all.

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If a cache has no redeeming value, does that mean that it is lame?  I have a cache that right in the cache description I have said that there is no redeeming value to it.  It is only there for the accomplishment of the find as it was the first one (that I know of) in this area.  If you read the logs, you will see that no one has said it was lame.

Yeah, I agree that there is quite a bit of trash around (it is across the street from a recycling center), but that makes a good opportunity to practice CITO! 

;)  ;)

I closed this once because I don't want it to degenerate into yet 1 more thread about what is and isn't lame. This is actually about whether or not any criticism is allowed in the log.

You can, of course, do whatever you want but who wants to listen to unwarranted and rude comments about something they have done for you and me. My opinion is if it needs maintenance, is on private property or the coordinates are off, please do say something about it. But just because you didn't like a cache that was well advertised as to what it was doesn't mean you have to say what you did. Give constructive criticism, good remarks or say nothing at all.

OK, I'll take that statement, but what you're telling me is somewhat conflicting. First you say to only note if it needs repair or coords are off etc. Then you say Constructive criticism is allowable. I felt my original post was constructive, pointing out that there were so many great options avavilable to the owner, why just shove a film can and soggy paper in the bark of a sapling. Now, I didn't go into too much detail in the log because I didn't want to create a spoiler. But now I wish maybe I had.

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If a cache has no redeeming value, does that mean that it is lame?  I have a cache that right in the cache description I have said that there is no redeeming value to it.  It is only there for the accomplishment of the find as it was the first one (that I know of) in this area.  If you read the logs, you will see that no one has said it was lame.

Yeah, I agree that there is quite a bit of trash around (it is across the street from a recycling center), but that makes a good opportunity to practice CITO! 

;)  ;)

I closed this once because I don't want it to degenerate into yet 1 more thread about what is and isn't lame. This is actually about whether or not any criticism is allowed in the log.

You can, of course, do whatever you want but who wants to listen to unwarranted and rude comments about something they have done for you and me. My opinion is if it needs maintenance, is on private property or the coordinates are off, please do say something about it. But just because you didn't like a cache that was well advertised as to what it was doesn't mean you have to say what you did. Give constructive criticism, good remarks or say nothing at all.

OK, I'll take that statement, but what you're telling me is somewhat conflicting. First you say to only note if it needs repair or coords are off etc. Then you say Constructive criticism is allowable. I felt my original post was constructive, pointing out that there were so many great options avavilable to the owner, why just shove a film can and soggy paper in the bark of a sapling. Now, I didn't go into too much detail in the log because I didn't want to create a spoiler. But now I wish maybe I had.

Why did you place this silly micro doesn't sound too constructive to me.

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If a cache has no redeeming value, does that mean that it is lame?  I have a cache that right in the cache description I have said that there is no redeeming value to it.  It is only there for the accomplishment of the find as it was the first one (that I know of) in this area.  If you read the logs, you will see that no one has said it was lame.

Yeah, I agree that there is quite a bit of trash around (it is across the street from a recycling center), but that makes a good opportunity to practice CITO! 

;)  ;)

I closed this once because I don't want it to degenerate into yet 1 more thread about what is and isn't lame. This is actually about whether or not any criticism is allowed in the log.

You can, of course, do whatever you want but who wants to listen to unwarranted and rude comments about something they have done for you and me. My opinion is if it needs maintenance, is on private property or the coordinates are off, please do say something about it. But just because you didn't like a cache that was well advertised as to what it was doesn't mean you have to say what you did. Give constructive criticism, good remarks or say nothing at all.

OK, I'll take that statement, but what you're telling me is somewhat conflicting. First you say to only note if it needs repair or coords are off etc. Then you say Constructive criticism is allowable. I felt my original post was constructive, pointing out that there were so many great options avavilable to the owner, why just shove a film can and soggy paper in the bark of a sapling. Now, I didn't go into too much detail in the log because I didn't want to create a spoiler. But now I wish maybe I had.

Why did you place this silly micro doesn't sound too constructive to me.

Because you conveniently left off the first half of the sentence which was "With all the good places here available to hide a regular cache, why this silly micro?"

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Some issue with your post:

 

"their are different opinions on how the game should be played."

Why is your opinion more valid than mine?

 

I didn't say your opinion is less valuable than mine

 

Your "duty" to warn me? Did you have to fill out a form or something to be the King of Cache town? Why do you get to decide what is worth going after for me?

 

It not about deciding what is good for you to hunt, I make my warnings based on parental experience and kid safety.

 

I'm sorry, last time I checked Geocaching was supposed to be family friendly. When I take my family with me geocaching, I want to know if they area is safe. At one cache I visited, it was listed as "kid friendly", but the cache was in an area covered with broken glass. I had to hold on to my daughter to keep here from cutting herself.

 

I mentioned in my online log that there is a risk for small children. What is wrong with warning parents that they shouldn't take their kids to a certain cache due to the area being dangerous

 

I do except the risks involved in geocaching, so don't assume I'm not aware already.

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It not about deciding what is good for you to hunt, I make my warnings based on parental experience and kid safety.

 

I'm sorry, last time I checked Geocaching was supposed to be family friendly. When I take my family with me geocaching, I want to know if they area is safe. At one cache I visited, it was listed as "kid friendly", but the cache was in an area covered with broken glass. I had to hold on to my daughter to keep here from cutting herself.

 

I mentioned in my online log that there is a risk for small children. What is wrong with warning parents that they shouldn't take their kids to a certain cache due to the area being dangerous

 

I do except the risks involved in geocaching, so don't assume I'm not aware already.

Don't you understand - you DARED to offer someone a log that wasn't "I found it - this was the best cache ever!" You selfish, selfish person. What's a few cuts and some wear and tear on your children compared to the happiness of the hider? Honestly, I don't know how you live with yourself. Just tell yourself "It's all good!" and all will be well. Obviously you are very judgemental, and you probably want to ban caches in piles of broken glass, too. You wannabe cache-banning person, you! (hope that isn't too strong an insult to get me warned!) If I want to hide one there in the glass- it's practically my god-given right to do so! How can you turn up your nose at this gift - you ingrate!

 

Can we just change the UI for the website so that the "I Found it" button just created a random, happy and positive log? Wouldn't that be great?!?

 

I'd also like to suggest the addition of rose-tinted sunglasses to the Groundspeak.com store. I know I'd buy some! (Sorry, OT I know!)

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...A little more research would show that fully half the caches in my area were also down for repair those times. Thus is the devistating power of the Ohio river. She only floods like that every 40 years or so, but perhaps if it floods every 40 years, we should have caches in the ohio valley. By the same reasoning, they shouldn't have caches in Florida where hurricanes can wipe them out. Or So. Cal where mudslides and earthquakes can be a problem

Sorry sbell, you are way off.

Again my topic was simple, was I too harsh? ...

I'm terribly sorry. I didn't realize that the flood stopped you from maintaining your caches during those months that finders were repeatedly posting that they needed repair.

 

Obviously, you are not the type of owner that would ignore a number of logs regarding wet caches for months because if you were, those caches would definitely be lame in my opinion.

 

Certainly, if you had been the owner of such unmaintained caches, you would not throw stones just because someone placed a micro cache with a dry log in a nice little park at a rest stop. ;)

 

Kit fox's post made me have a few other thoughts on this topic. For those of you who feel that the original post was just fine, do you do any research on the hiding cacher before you log your rude comments? What if said cache was placed by a nice little ten year old?

 

Since you already knew it was a micro in a rest stop from the cache page, what if the cache page specifically stated that the intention was to allow finders a quick break from their travels, but that he felt that a regular cache might get muggled. Would that change your post or would you still fire away? What makes a micro in a nice little park a good hide for you?

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...It not about deciding what is good for you to hunt, I make my warnings based on parental experience and kid safety...

KF- I realize that we've come down on different sides of the recent 'lame cache' debates a few times, but I completely agree with your above quoted position. If there is an unknown danger, I certainly agree that you should add it to your logs.

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I said it before, I'll say it again...

 

Expressing opinions about the cache (I was disappointed when I found this micro because this park would be a great place for a regular, or the large amount of broken glass in the area makes it unsafe for smaller children ...) OK!

 

Expressing opinions about the placers (Why did you... What were you thinking when you... You sure wasted my time when you...) NOT OK!

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What makes a micro in a nice little park a good hide for you?

A fair question, I'll give it a fair answer.

Should have probably been obvious by now. If that is the only way to put a cache there, I would applaud it for it's utility. But I will repeat... There were MANY, MANY places to hide a real cache. This was NOT disability accessable, so that is not an issue. Within a couple of dozen paces of it's location were NUMEROUS good places to put a cache. This on was not thought out. But I digress, because once again you have me talking about what makes a lame cache, that is not the purpose.

I merely want to know if I have the privilege (I won't say right) to criticize in the log!

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