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Was I Too Harsh??


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While caching last weekend, I came across another lame micro in a small roadside park. This park had several acres and some nice wooded land and older landscaped area. But this was a film container in the bark of a tree in the lawn. When I logged it, I posted this statement; "There are plenty of good places here for a regular size cache, why did you place this silly micro."

I got an almost immediate response from the owner saying "Could you please refrain next time from the harsh uncalled for negative remarks from the cache and delete it and put something not so opinionative. If you have a question and opinion on one of my caches msg me dont put your negative remarks on the cache log. Thank You "

After reviewing what I had written, I thought it was very polite, except for 1 word. So I edited to delete "silly".

 

Was I too harsh??????

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If thats how you feel, then you should not feel guilty for expressing it.

 

I personally would have used a bit more tact, but thats me.

Tact, seems to always be my problem. Give me a tactful example how I should have logged it. I thought it was tactful. What I wanted to say was "This cache stinks" and "Why did you waste my time" But instead I asked why they didn't use a full size whith so many good spots around.

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When I logged it, I posted this statement; "There are plenty of good places here for a regular size cache, why did you place this silly micro."

I agree that you should log your impressions about a cache, but make them "your" impressions. The statement "why did you place this silly micro." Is combative and argumentative. You could have gotten the same point across by saying, "There are plenty of good places here for a regular size cache, I really would have enjoyed that a lot more."

This gets across your point that you didn't like the micro without passing judgement on the owner.

 

Of course, if it was your intention to pass judgement, then this tactic won't work at all. :)

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Tact, seems to always be my problem. Give me a tactful example how I should have logged it. I thought it was tactful. What I wanted to say was "This cache stinks" and "Why did you waste my time" But instead I asked why they didn't use a full size whith so many good spots around.

Tact, as I understand it, is not a binary concept. :)

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Tact, seems to always be my problem. Give me a tactful example how I should have logged it. I thought it was tactful. What I wanted to say was "This cache stinks" and "Why did you waste my time" But instead I asked why they didn't use a full size whith so many good spots around.

 

I would have said something like, "This is a beautiful park. With all the great spots to hide a cache, I was surprised to find it here".

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dead white man said "small roadside park."Then went on to say "This park had several acres ". Which was it? Small or several acres? Either way, maybe the hider was strapped for time, had physical limitations or maybe he planned to return another day to hide a regular cache. It is also possible that all the hider intended was to get you out to that nice roadside park with "some nice wooded land and older landscaped area." I see no reason to post negative comments about the quality of ANY cache. The only reason to post negative is possibly if the area might pose a danger to a cacher ie: wasps nests, gopher holes, falling trees etc.The object of geocaching IMHO is the excitement of finding the cache. You have a great day.

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dead white man said "small roadside park."Then went on to say "This park had several acres ". Which was it? Small or several acres? Either way, maybe the hider was strapped for time, had physical limitations or maybe he planned to return another day to hide a regular cache. It is also possible that all the hider intended was to get you out to that nice roadside park with "some nice wooded land and older landscaped area." I see no reason to post negative comments about the quality of ANY cache. The only reason to post negative is possibly if the area might pose a danger to a cacher ie: wasps nests, gopher holes, falling trees etc.The object of geocaching IMHO is the excitement of finding the cache. You have a great day.

CacheStan, I think all your counterpoints to the OP are potentially valid (seriously), but I have these counterpoints to you, submitted respectfully:

 

(1) As you know, there are any number of threads around here lamenting the fact that these kinds of "just any ol' place" micros seem to be an alarming trend in so many areas of the USA...folks are placing micro caches just to place caches, as opposed to putting any real thought (or a few bucks) into them. As a poster on one of these threads stated very eloquently, "Mediocrity breeds mediocrity." While it's true this isn't a WalMart or dumpster micro, it's still an extension of the same concept: Does every other new cache really have to be a 35mm can stuffed into a tree hollow (or any other "random" place) when another more desirable (to many) place nearby could be used?

 

(2) I'm getting a little tired of the use of "physical limitations" as the blanket excuse for these kinds of caches. From the looks of the OP's post, a better cache could have been placed in this park that could still have been mobility-impaired-friendly, if only the hider had made the effort. And as another poster stated very eloquently on another thread, do our mobility-impaired fellow cachers have to be sentenced to a constant stream of "just any ol' place" caches in order to play our game?

 

(3) As to your comment about the "excitement of the find", it sure doesn't sound like this particular tree hollow was terribly exciting, now does it? Strikes me as yet another, "Log a smiley, then move along". Such excitement. Whoopity doo. :)

 

Finally (and this time not in direct response to the above quote, but commenting on earlier posts on this thread), I think the cache owner's response to the OP was actually just fine and not out of line at all...maybe a little thin-skinned, yeah, but not horrible. The cache owner didn't just summarily delete the OPs log (as many others do when presented with ANYTHING not positive), he (she?) just asked for a simple edit of the log to soften the tone of the comment. While I don't have a problem with the OP's choice to state his opinion, I similarly don't have a problem with the cache owner asking the OP not to discourage others from searching for it either. I've seen far more argumentative exchanges than this one.

 

-Dave R.

Edited by drat19
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Any cache, and cacher, that falls within the guidelines of our sport should be welcome and respected.

 

The fact that he could have done it differently is true of every cache, and if we go down that road then we have fuel for flame wars where folks go around dissing every cache they don't like for whatever reason.

 

In this case a geocacher placed a geocache that led another geocacher to discover a park they likely didn't know about - isn't that the game, rather than a geocache beauty contest?

 

The log writer's intent may be "constructive criticism" with the intent of helping the hider or the game, but chances are great the hider knows his options and made his choice. If you STILL feel the need to criticize do it via private email, as a public spanking will almost always garner anger and resentment, even if you may be 100% correct.

 

The generic "TFTH" (Thanks For The Hide) is generally accepted to mean "I found it and have nothing more to say about it" or something along those lines, and is a perfectly polite way to express that the cache wasn't up to your standards.

 

Ed

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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My mother told me (over a half century ago) that if I had nothing nice to say, say nothing at all. She always gave me such sage advice. :) Everything depends on ones perspective. Recently, I broke my ankle and I have a much different perspective on those 1 : 1 micro caches I bypassed before. My experience has made me less judgmental by giving me a bit different perspective. :) I'm now glad some folks thought that a wide variety of cache sizes, difficulties and terrains were needed. Not every cache is for every cacher. Walking a mile in another's moccasins definitely adjusts one perspective.

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Recently, I broke my ankle and I have a much different perspective on those 1 : 1 micro caches I bypassed before. My experience has made me less judgmental by giving me a bit different perspective. biggrin.gif I'm now glad some folks thought that a wide variety of cache sizes, difficulties and terrains were needed. Not every cache is for every cacher. Walking a mile in another's moccasins definitely adjusts one perspective.

 

For the fifty thousandth time, its not about micros, its not about 1/1 caches, its about location and putting a little thought into the cache.

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I have mixed feelings about this one.

 

On the one hand, we're always saying that if you don't like a cache, you ought to be truthful in your log instead of saying "Thanks for the hide, TNLN." The logs are the best way for other geocachers to know whether they might enjoy hunting for the cache. I didn't find the log to be over the top; it merely stated the finder's opinion.

 

On the other hand, a study of the map for this cache shows that it is hidden in a rest area on Interstate 70. These tend to be very high-traffic areas where people walk around to stretch their legs, walk their dog, etc. In my experience, microcaches tend to survive the longest in this type of environment, due to muggle risk. That being said, I've found caches in rest stops in Nebraska and Tennessee that were hidden in ammo cans, and had survived for a long time, because there were woods with trails leading from the rest stop. To really know the answer, I'd have to check out the terrain at this particular rest stop. But it sure doesn't look like a "park" on the map.

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Recently, I broke my ankle and I have a much different perspective on those 1 : 1 micro caches I bypassed before. My experience has made me less judgmental by giving me a bit different perspective. biggrin.gif I'm now glad some folks thought that a wide variety of cache sizes, difficulties and terrains were needed. Not every cache is for every cacher. Walking a mile in another's moccasins definitely adjusts one perspective.

 

For the fifty thousandth time, its not about micros, its not about 1/1 caches, its about location and putting a little thought into the cache.

Nice way to treat someone with only 4 posts there ...

:):)

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Recently, I broke my ankle and I have a much different perspective on those 1 : 1 micro caches I bypassed before. My experience has made me less judgmental by giving me a bit different perspective. biggrin.gif I'm now glad some folks thought that a wide variety of cache sizes, difficulties and terrains were needed. Not every cache is for every cacher. Walking a mile in another's moccasins definitely adjusts one perspective.

 

For the fifty thousandth time, its not about micros, its not about 1/1 caches, its about location and putting a little thought into the cache.

Nice way to treat someone with only 4 posts there ...

:):)

Oops, didn't notice that. Sorry MM!

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For the fifty thousandth time, its not about micros, its not about 1/1 caches, its about location and putting a little thought into the cache.

 

For the fifty-thousand and first time, we know what it's about; we obviously like it our way.

 

Cadillac, Ford, Chevrolet, Yugo - what do you drive?

 

I drive a custom-made 1-ton Suburban Dualie, gets maybe 4 MPG, goes anywhere, tows anything, tree-huggers hate it! Whine about that for a while, how I am destroying the world is far more interesting than how hides you don't like are "destroying" the game.

 

Ed

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Just plain don’t understand the topic starter, you pull up to a park and could see that the cache is a micro, can see how big the park is and how it could have had a regular size cache.

 

But you got out of your vehicle to get that valuable smiley icon, and then complain, why did you not just drive on down the road till you found a cache that was up “YOUR” standards .

 

If you ever come to my area, will hope that you would put all of my caches on your ignore list so you would not be disappointed, cause it looks like to me you got out of your vehicle wanting to pick a fight.

 

It you don‘t like the area, the cache, the cache hider, “DRIVE ON “

 

There are no lame caches, somebody had fun hiding it, and someone had fun finding it ……….. JOE

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While caching last weekend, I came across another lame micro in a small roadside park. This park had several acres and some nice wooded land and older landscaped area. But this was a film container in the bark of a tree in the lawn. When I logged it, I posted this statement; "There are plenty of good places here for a regular size cache, why did you place this silly micro."

I got an almost immediate response from the owner saying "Could you please refrain next time from the harsh uncalled for negative remarks from the cache and delete it and put something not so opinionative. If you have a question and opinion on one of my caches msg me dont put your negative remarks on the cache log. Thank You "

After reviewing what I had written, I thought it was very polite, except for 1 word. So I edited to delete "silly".

 

Was I too harsh??????

It sure is amazing how many people whine about caches that arent up to their standards. I dont know which cache this is but i'll sure betcha that there's no mention of outstanding views or challenging requirements in the description. Matter of fact, it probably states that it has a real low difficulty rating and that it is a micro too. If this is true then it would seem to me that you should have a pretty good idea of how the cache is gonna be before you even get there.

 

Now, if the cache owner lied about the container size, difficulty rating, or promised you any of the above, then yes,, you may have a legitimate complaint! Otherwise, stop your whining!!! [;)]

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This whole debate on lame caches sort of reminds me of when I joined the Navy and I was griping about the coffee one day.... and this old Chief came up to me and said that one thing I needed to learn was that there was no such thing as bad coffee....there's just varying degrees of good.

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I think most of the other replies to this thread have been too harsh. ;);):tired:

Since when is "silly" an offensive word? If you break it down this entire RASH is silly, yet we love it so that we get into these incredible arguments about it. :tired: Golf is silly; hit a little ball across the lawn until it falls in a hole; repeat. Tennis is silly; hit a ball across the net until someone misses; repeat. etc.etc.etc.

 

I'll trust the lep's research on this location-if it's a rest stop cache, then a film can in a tree hollow is fine. If there is a good sized park behind the immediate area, then perhaps suggesting that they hide a few more caches in this wonderful park would be a suitable olive branch to the easily offended hider?

Still, someone had fun hiding it; many more will have fun finding it.

How much fun you have is up to you.

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Wow. You sure are catching a lot of heat for your question. I though you were looking for perspective on weather or not your log entry was appropriate. I think you got some fine suggestions up higher in the thread for nicer ways to express the same thing. And it being your opinion, it is yours to express. ;)

I'm too new to the game to know how I feel about 1/1, micros, and all the other places this thread has gone. Had I been the person who's log you had signed, It probably would have stung, but it may have made me rethink my location choice as well.

 

Happy Caching,

Octavia

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Was I too harsh??????

It would seem more harsh when you change your log to something like "at the owner's request I have no opinion about this cache". Then instead of it being 'silly' and it will look like you downright hate the location ;)

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My mother told me (over a half century ago) that if I had nothing nice to say, say nothing at all. She always gave me such sage advice. ;) Everything depends on ones perspective. Recently, I broke my ankle and I have a much different perspective on those 1 : 1 micro caches I bypassed before. My experience has made me less judgmental by giving me a bit different perspective. ;) I'm now glad some folks thought that a wide variety of cache sizes, difficulties and terrains were needed. Not every cache is for every cacher. Walking a mile in another's moccasins definitely adjusts one perspective.

Well said and just my thought. I guess if you don't like the cache then DON't log it. I may thing that a micro in a rock pile is the pinnical of lame cache but if I log it then I just TNLNSL and that is it. If I enjoy a cache then I'll ramble on for a bit and thank the owner for his hide. One resent cache I did wasn't that exciting but it was sone the son of a cache I had just met so I was a little verbos in my log and sent him an email to encourgage him. So be nice and if you really hate it then ignore it. If the cache is a micro and it is in a rock pile then walk a way, oops that is my dislike.

cheers

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Man...this is the second thread of this type I have read on here this morning. There is definitely a subset among geocachers who really seem to take a great deal of glee from criticizing others' caches. If you don't like easy micros, don't do them. I like easy micros as well as deviously hidden ammo boxes requiring bushwhacking in the woods. It is ALL good. Certain folks need to lighten up and get off their high horse. That is the beauty of this sport. You can make it what you want by choosing what you hunt.

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I have mixed feelings about this one.

 

On the one hand, we're always saying that if you don't like a cache, you ought to be truthful in your log instead of saying "Thanks for the hide, TNLN." The logs are the best way for other geocachers to know whether they might enjoy hunting for the cache. I didn't find the log to be over the top; it merely stated the finder's opinion.

 

On the other hand, a study of the map for this cache shows that it is hidden in a rest area on Interstate 70. These tend to be very high-traffic areas where people walk around to stretch their legs, walk their dog, etc. In my experience, microcaches tend to survive the longest in this type of environment, due to muggle risk. That being said, I've found caches in rest stops in Nebraska and Tennessee that were hidden in ammo cans, and had survived for a long time, because there were woods with trails leading from the rest stop. To really know the answer, I'd have to check out the terrain at this particular rest stop. But it sure doesn't look like a "park" on the map.

This is a large rest area with a couple of wooded acres, 2 or 3 perhaps more.

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Just plain don’t understand the topic starter, you pull up to a park and could see that the cache is a micro, can see how big the park is and how it could have had a regular size cache.

 

But you got out of your vehicle to get that valuable smiley icon, and then complain, why did you not just drive on down the road till you found a cache that was up “YOUR” standards .

 

If you ever come to my area, will hope that you would put all of my caches on your ignore list so you would not be disappointed, cause it looks like to me you got out of your vehicle wanting to pick a fight.

 

It you don‘t like the area, the cache, the cache hider, “DRIVE ON “

 

There are no lame caches, somebody had fun hiding it, and someone had fun finding it ……….. JOE

I am perfectly happy logging my grab and go, but shouldn't I be permitted to comment? Had there not been so many good places there to hide a regular cache, I would have just written LNTN TFTC but since there were many good places, and I do mean MANY, why not mention it in the cache.

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I think most of the other replies to this thread have been too harsh. ;)  ;)  :tired:

Since when is "silly" an offensive word? If you break it down this entire RASH is silly, yet we love it so that we get into these incredible arguments about it. :tired: Golf is silly; hit a little ball across the lawn until it falls in a hole; repeat. Tennis is silly; hit a ball across the net until someone misses; repeat. etc.etc.etc.

 

I'll trust the lep's research on this location-if it's a rest stop cache, then a film can in a tree hollow is fine. If there is a good sized park behind the immediate area, then perhaps suggesting that they hide a few more caches in this wonderful park would be a suitable olive branch to the easily offended hider?

Still, someone had fun hiding it; many more will have fun finding it.

How much fun you have is up to you.

I was reading this thread thinking the same thoughts as Wimsey and was going to post those thoughts but don't need to now. Do we have more fun in Raleigh than in some other areas of the country? I was writing my thoughts to another thread and when I was done it was locked so here goes:

 

We just had a great dinner event in Raleigh. It seemed like everyone had a great time, I know we did. There was a lot of laughing, talking about caches and general revelry but not a bit of whining or debating or whatever it might be called. There were about 65 or 70 people there just having a good time. These folks were a cross section of our caching population, new cachers, old cachers and plenty in between. As I think back all of our events (and events we've attended in other areas), have been happy, successful affairs without a bunch of complaining. I wonder if other events in other areas are not as much fun judging from some of the debate in these forums. Hopefully all of the debate, whining, arguments, bashing, etc stays here. We've learned a lot from these forums and have tried to contribute but sometimes we've just had to learn to ignore some of the posts.

 

I suppose I just enjoy geocaching differently than some of the folks that post here frequently. I appreciate the caches that are hidden as do the folks here in Raleigh. There just doesn't seem to be as much dissent in the ranks here. We have a good time with our hobby and welcome all kinds of caches here and have caches that will satisfy everyone. I go to other areas of the country and don't see much of a difference in cache types or cachers, just here in the forums....

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but since there were many good places, and I do mean MANY, why not mention it in the cache.

 

Because it is presumptive and just plain wrong for you to assume that the cacher didn't know his options and make his choice.

 

If we assume he knew he had choices and still hid as he did, then your disappointment and desire to make him change his ways comes from some kind of expectation that he's here to entertain you, to cater to your whim.

 

No hider can please everyone, so if if a hider disappoints you you've learned the value of the ignore feature, that's all.

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I have taken the good advice of some of the early posters, who actually answered my question instead of ranting about tangent subjects. I edited my post to read "The hider should consider upgrading this cache to a regular size. There are many good places here to hide, and this micro seems somewhat disappointing."

 

Thanks

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but since there were many good places, and I do mean MANY, why not mention it in the cache.

 

Because it is presumptive and just plain wrong for you to assume that the cacher didn't know his options and make his choice.

 

If we assume he knew he had choices and still hid as he did, then your disappointment and desire to make him change his ways comes from some kind of expectation that he's here to entertain you, to cater to your whim.

 

No hider can please everyone, so if if a hider disappoints you you've learned the value of the ignore feature, that's all.

Very well said

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but since there were many good places, and I do mean MANY, why not mention it in the cache.

 

Because it is presumptive and just plain wrong for you to assume that the cacher didn't know his options and make his choice.

 

If we assume he knew he had choices and still hid as he did, then your disappointment and desire to make him change his ways comes from some kind of expectation that he's here to entertain you, to cater to your whim.

 

No hider can please everyone, so if if a hider disappoints you you've learned the value of the ignore feature, that's all.

You totally mis-understand!

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While caching last weekend, I came across another lame micro in a small roadside park. This park had several acres and some nice wooded land and older landscaped area. But this was a film container in the bark of a tree in the lawn. When I logged it, I posted this statement; "There are plenty of good places here for a regular size cache, why did you place this silly micro."

I got an almost immediate response from the owner saying "Could you please refrain next time from the harsh uncalled for negative remarks from the cache and delete it and put something not so opinionative. If you have a question and opinion on one of my caches msg me dont put your negative remarks on the cache log. Thank You "

After reviewing what I had written, I thought it was very polite, except for 1 word. So I edited to delete "silly".

 

Was I too harsh??????

In a single word..... YES

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Just plain don’t understand the topic starter, you pull up to a park and could see that the cache is a micro, can see how big the park is and how it could have had a regular size cache.

 

But you got out of your vehicle to get that valuable smiley icon, and then complain, why did you not just drive on down the road till you found a cache that was up “YOUR” standards .

 

If you ever come to my area, will hope that you would put all of my caches on your ignore list so you would not be disappointed, cause it looks like to me you got out of your vehicle wanting to pick a fight.

 

It you don‘t like the area, the cache, the cache hider, “DRIVE ON “

 

There are no lame caches, somebody had fun hiding it, and someone had fun finding it ……….. JOE

I gotta go with joe on this one.

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It seems to me the best way to handle caches that you don't approve of would be not to log them at all. If a cache is good enough for you to take credit for finding then it would seem that it was good enough to have been placed.

Again, let me say, in case you lost track of the original post. I would be perfectly happy to log it, especially if there had not been so many good places within 100 ft of this micro. My question was simply "was my post to harsh" the answers seem to be split on that, so I have edited my post to be less offensive. (although I fail to see how it could have been in the first place)

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He is using his first amendment rights, and didn't use profanity.

excellent point......everyone has the right to be harsh. or a jerk, or whatever (dead_white_man, I'm not saying you are)

 

on the other hand, in a sport as social as this, being friendly and courteous should go a lot further than exercising "rights"

 

my opinion; you weren't very nice

I agree with what some others have said about posting little to nothing in the log if you didn't like it.

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After giving this some thought...I try to be honest in my logs, but I would have phrased my log differently. I truthfully wouldn't be all that concerned if someone went to one of my caches and posted the "silly micro" log. I don't expect everyone to like all of my caches.

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I like your current log best DWM.

 

What I see in this thread is very similar to what is going wrong in America. You have a small but very vocal minority (people who enjoy thoughtless or lame caches) that are quick to criticize, or even attempt to silence the majority when they don't like what the majority has to say.

 

They use code words like "don't hunt this type of cache", or "use your ignore feature". They preach tolerance, but offer no solution to the problem. This reminds me of the debate between Liberals and Conservatives.

Edited by Kit Fox
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On the other hand, a study of the map for this cache shows that it is hidden in a rest area on Interstate 70.  These tend to be very high-traffic areas where people walk around to stretch their legs, walk their dog, etc.  In my experience, microcaches tend to survive the longest in this type of environment, due to muggle risk.  That being said, I've found caches in rest stops in Nebraska and Tennessee that were hidden in ammo cans, and had survived for a long time, because there were woods with trails leading from the rest stop.  To really know the answer, I'd have to check out the terrain at this particular rest stop.  But it sure doesn't look like a "park" on the map.

 

This is a large rest area with a couple of wooded acres, 2 or 3 perhaps more.

At a rest stop, if I am in the process of traveling, I don't want to involve myself in a half-mile hike through the woods to find a cache just because the hider placed a larger-size cache.

 

I enjoy rest stop caches when they are just that, a rest stop, not a big caching adventure.

 

I would probably enjoy doing this cache on my way down the highway because it wouldn't take away from what I was *really* doing (going somewhere far away) to do something I *really* wanted to do (find a cache).

 

As to the original question of "was I too harsh/nasty/etc"...I think the answer is yes and no. Yes, because "silly" is unnecessary. You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred. But even "silly" isn't overly harsh...DPM would be overly harsh (simply for the snobbish 'i know what it means...do you, because it's about your cache' factor). The cache hider should realize that even slightly obnoxious people will seek out their cache and leave slightly obnoxious logs. It takes all kinds and they all like geocaching.

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It seems to me the best way to handle caches that you don't approve of would be not to log them at all. If a cache is good enough for you to take credit for finding then it would seem that it was good enough to have been placed.

Again, let me say, in case you lost track of the original post. I would be perfectly happy to log it, especially if there had not been so many good places within 100 ft of this micro. My question was simply "was my post to harsh" the answers seem to be split on that, so I have edited my post to be less offensive. (although I fail to see how it could have been in the first place)

I think where you went over the line was "Why did you place this silly micro". He placed a micro in a nice place... like so many folks in these forums want. There is plenty of room for more so go hide some of the ones you like to seek. I constantly say in my logs something like "This is sure a nice park with plenty of room for more, keep them coming". With something like that they may hide more. If they keep getting sarcastic comments they will stop altogether. Again, you knew it was a micro in a park when you took off. Be choosy so you won't be faced with this "heartache" again. Press that ignore button

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and round we go again. the OP said "I am perfectly happy logging my grab and go, but shouldn't I be permitted to comment? "

he enjoys the easy ones, but why not give your opinion? i would rather a person tells me why my cache is lame rather than tnlnsl so i know what the problem is. some of the suggestions above were probably more tactful wording than the original log.

 

if there are 2 to 3 acres here, could you possibly place a larger container and be more than 528' away, or is this location too far away to place a cache?

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I think you were way too harsh in your log.

 

You knew the cache was a micro before going out. Unless your definition of 'lame' is 'micro', I don't understand why you have a problem with this cache. By your own omission, the cache was placed in a nice park. Many people may not know that this nice place exists and be glad to be taken there.

 

You state that the park is at least a few acres and that there are places that would serve well to hide a regular-sized cache. Perhaps the park is large enough that you could place another cache there; one that would meet your high standards.

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