Prints In The Snow By Valley View Lookout

March 1, 2005

Out with Tick Magnets enjoying an incredible hike in the snow (weather was perfect). We were up top in the Rockaway River WMA and found ourselves following these tracks most of the day:

The pad didn't look big enough for a bear. They were much larger than my Bernese Mountain Dog (110 lb) tracks so I thought they were too large for a coyote. They seemed relatively fresh and unlikely a melting effect.

Although I've had three people email me that indeed the encounter I described for TRL Adventurer's Cache was likely a cougar, I'll admit I'm having a hard time buying it.

Does anyone know what made these tracks? Before I get eaten, can others show me other tracks I should be able to identify in NW NJ?

8.1k · March 1, 2005

I told you to put that APE suit away until we do the Project Ape cache.

Edit: Remind me not to go caching with you in Sussex county. The largest wildlife we saw was a fat robin.

Probably a cougar, they are much bigger than people expect. I came face to face with one in California.

Edited March 1, 2005 by avroair

March 1, 2005

BE AFRAID!!!....... BE VERY AFRAID!!!...My Friend!!!!

You got more pics?

March 1, 2005

BE AFRAID!!!....... BE VERY AFRAID!!!...My Friend!!!!
You got more pics?

Not others of the footprints but posted a few from the hike at Valley View Lookout cache page. Including this one of the stage 2 cache container slightly knawed.

38.2k · March 1, 2005

Cat paws usually don't show claws so its not a big cat. Looks like a big dog. Were they in a straight line, or wandering? Feral dog tracks tend to be in a straight line. Domestic dog tracks tend to wander around.

March 1, 2005

Yep....Did that cache...Saw that container....My guess is a bear took a bite of it.

March 1, 2005

You didn't happen to see these tracks and then a "trough" Or what would appear like "it " was dragging something? Did you?

March 1, 2005

Cat paws usually don't show claws so its not a big cat. Looks like a big dog. Were they in a straight line, or wandering? Feral dog tracks tend to be in a straight line. Domestic dog tracks tend to wander around.

I'll say they were primarily in a straight line. We followed them for 0.5-0.7 miles without much deviation. Not that we were trying to follow them but they seemed to running right alongside the white blaze trail. They did not seem to deviate at all along that distance and not a human print to be found.

We're glad they didn't deviate to look for Treequest's Rockaway Cascading Cache as they (like us) would have probably still been there looking for it when we arrived. Probably would have attacked us just out of frustration (as we would have them after our 90 minute search).

March 1, 2005

You didn't happen to see these tracks and then a "trough" Or what would appear like "it " was dragging something? Did you?

Nope.

Saw some really light, small canine type footprints running alongside. Although they seemed dated - like the animal was running on top of the snow when it was frozen.

Then up, very near stage 3 of the cache (rock plateau) something had really clawed the ground pretty significantly. Tried to take a pic but our knucklehead dogs trampled the area before I could get the camera out.

Edited March 1, 2005 by Team Rampant Lion

4.5k · March 1, 2005

Aren't there lots of bears in Sussex?

March 1, 2005

Aren't there lots of bears in Sussex?

Yes. They are in my neighborhood all the time (Sussex Co. resident). In fact dobsonian posted the coordinates for a hibernating bear in a shallow cave near this cache at N40 57.894 W074 34.042. (If anyone goes to look, please take a pic - at least then we'll know what ate you ).

These just didn't look like bear prints. But I'm no tracking expert and am quite willing to stand corrected.

4.5k · March 1, 2005

Well I'm not going out there to personally inspect them . What if you're wrong?

Edited March 1, 2005 by Alan2

March 1, 2005

Well I'm not going out there to personally inspect them . What if you're wrong?

Wouldn't be the first time. That's why I carry a fire extinguisher sized bear mace and this is my new favorite book:

38.2k · March 1, 2005

These just didn't look like bear prints. But I'm no tracking expert and am quite willing to stand corrected.

Yep, don't look like black bear to me.

38.2k · March 1, 2005

Here are some more:

Coyote - front/hind

Bobcat - front/hind

Mountain Lion - front/hind

Wolf - front/hind

Fox - front

Harbor Seal

oops, got carried away

Edited March 1, 2005 by briansnat

March 1, 2005

These just didn't look like bear prints. But I'm no tracking expert and am quite willing to stand corrected.

Yep, don't look like black bear to me.

...looks to me like an "Arthur Murray" dance pattern of the 'Cha-Cha'. :tired:

left-right, left-right, cha-cha-cha :tired:

March 1, 2005

HERE,... KITTY-KITTY......HERE,....KITTY-KITTY....NIIICE KITTY!!!!!

March 1, 2005

The site where Brian got those track images has a forum:

Beartracker's Animal Tracks Den

Consider posting the pic there to try and get an ID.

3.9k · March 1, 2005

I think I know exactly WHO those tracks belong to...

March 1, 2005

Time for that bikini wax!

Edited March 1, 2005 by Team Perrito Blanco

1.7k · March 1, 2005

It is no longer refered to as a bikini wax, suggest you google a Brazil Job or a Brazilian. Sounds like it could be a geocaching event, everyone for a Brazilian.

More seriously, about your tracks, March 1 is the traditional time for wake up of hibernating bears in the NJ area. NJ Bears do not truly hibernate. Temp is not the controling factor so much as is day light. Be on the look out for this is the time when they are most hungry and cubs have been born over the winter. There are bear reports in the High Mountain Area of Wayne Township, so you know they are now everywhere.

Also, there is a move afoot for Sunday Bowhunting of Deer, which geocachers should be aware of.

10.1k · March 2, 2005

Harbor Seal
oops, got carried away

That's it! A harbor seal. Thought I saw one when I did that cache! Or was that Dead Duck?

BTW, the cache is in Jefferson Township, in Morris, not Sussex (though we do have our share of bears.) I've seen seven so far, including the one I almost stepped on.

Didn't I put out a new container, to replace the one that the bear bit?!!?

March 2, 2005

Didn't I put out a new container, to replace the one that the bear bit?!!?

Yes, you did and it is in good shape. I thought you left the other one for people like me to take pictures of - so I did.

So two quick questions:

1). Do we have cougars/mountain lions in the NW NJ area? [i couldn't find any definitive evidence online that there are and the authoritative sources suggested "no".]

2). Are there wolves? The print looked like what I would expect to be a very large canine print (could "X" the paw) but at that size wolf was the first thing that popped into my head. But I don't think we have those either.

1.7k · March 2, 2005

[Are there wolves? ]

Check on Eastern Coyotes, larger than elsewhere, some think that there may be a subspecies more akin to a wolf than the Western Coyote. BTW, Cougars have been known to travel more than 1000 miles, they have been sighted in Iowa and were thought to be moving east as Deer population increased. Bobcat ???

4.5k · March 2, 2005

They look like my fellow cacher Buddy's.

4.5k · March 2, 2005

Good site for tracking. http://www.bear-tracker.com/mammals.html

March 2, 2005

It is no longer refered to as a bikini wax, suggest you google a Brazil Job or a Brazilian. Sounds like it could be a geocaching event, everyone for a Brazilian.

aahh yes! i can picture it right now...

Excuse me, I'll have the "Ipanema".

if that's Brazilian for... "I pain in my..."

yup! then i'm in paradise. Yeeee-Ouch! Aahh. :huh: :lol:

wait till you see me in my sarong!

38.2k · March 2, 2005

1). Do we have cougars/mountain lions in the NW NJ area? [i couldn't find any definitive evidence online that there are and the authoritative sources suggested "no".]

Officially no, but they are moving east. With the human population density here, if there were any, I doubt they'd go undetected for very long. Never say never, but right now, very unlikely.

2). Are there wolves? The print looked like what I would expect to be a very large canine print (could "X" the paw) but at that size wolf was the first thing that popped into my head. But I don't think we have those either.

Wolves are doubful but coyotes are here. The eastern coyotes are much larger than their western cousins and sometimes push 70 lbs. I think that's the most likely source of your prints.

6.4k · March 2, 2005

1). Do we have cougars/mountain lions in the NW NJ area? [i couldn't find any definitive evidence online that there are and the authoritative sources suggested "no".]

Officially no, but they are moving east. With the human population density here, if there were any, I doubt they'd go undetected for very long. Never say never, but right now, very unlikely.

Ya might want to keep tabs on The Cougar Network.

Nothing in NJ yet, but mountain lions were once common in the area, and the (overly) large deer population would be a feast for any mountain lions that migrate from NY, New England, or Delaware (Delaware!?!?).

Wolves are doubful but coyotes are here. The eastern coyotes are much larger than their western cousins and sometimes push 70 lbs. I think that's the most likely source of your prints.

While supposedly the gray wolf population in the north east has increased enough that they've been upgraded from "endangered" to "threatened"; seeing one in the wild around here would be a rare treat indeed.

I've heard of eastern coyotes topping 100lbs, most likely due to cross-breeding with feral dogs.

10.1k · March 2, 2005

1). Do we have cougars/mountain lions in the NW NJ area? [i couldn't find any definitive evidence online that there are and the authoritative sources suggested "no".]

'Mythical' is probably the definitition given. "Mountain lions are mythical in New Jersey." My sister saw a bobcat in Massachusetts, in Beartown State Forest. They are mythical there. But she saw one. (If she weren't standing in my way, I might have seen it too.)

March 3, 2005

El Chupacabra, no doubt ! They are migrating from South America.

March 3, 2005

El Chupacabra, no doubt ! They are migrating from South America.

Oh no! Hide the farm animals!

March 3, 2005

I am pretty familiar with the cache in question (Valley View Lookout) as it is reasonably close to my home. When I moved in a couple of years ago, a couple of outdoors minded neighbors told us that there have been occasional sightings of mountain lion in our area which basically goes from Berkshire Valley Road up and over a very rugged set of ridges into the norhtern part of Picatinney Arsenal (US Army base). Because it is so rugged, it is possible that something like a Moountain lion could stay out of sight for the most part.

The ridge system that contains Valley View Lookout is across Berkshire Valley Road from the area that I described and it is not out of the question for wildlife to move back and forth across to that ridge.

March 4, 2005

1). Do we have cougars/mountain lions in the NW NJ area? [i couldn't find any definitive evidence online that there are and the authoritative sources suggested "no".]

Officially no, but they are moving east. With the human population density here, if there were any, I doubt they'd go undetected for very long. Never say never, but right now, very unlikely.

About a year ago, a few workers at the Fe Ex facility in Mahwah reported seeing a mountain lion lounging near the pond next door. Wildlife officials look and didn't find anything definitive. But by all accounts, they consistenly described a mountain lion. Hey... happy hiking folks.

March 5, 2005

I tried figuring it out and the result was that I realized you need more than one print to make a judgement. It could be fox, dog, or wolf. Of course there are feral dogs here and there, so all three are possible. You have to look at the gait and the distance between the prints. Also need several photos of the prints.

Chief Assistant (and sometime Historian of Planes)

March 5, 2005

I tried figuring it out and the result was that I realized you need more than one print to make a judgement. It could be fox, dog, or wolf. Of course there are feral dogs here and there, so all three are possible. You have to look at the gait and the distance between the prints. Also need several photos of the prints.

Chief Assistant (and sometime Historian of Planes)

OK, I went back today to get more images of the prints. FIgured with all the new snow they would be easy to find (and they were). I posted the images along with my find log for Rockaway Cascading Cache.

I brought a tape measure this time. Prints appeared to be about 4" front to back. Took of picture of the gait and you can see they are in a very straight line. Again followed them about 0.5 miles along the white blaze trail with little variance.

Also looked for the hibernating bear that Dobsonian posted the coordiantes for. Found the spot, no bear.

4.5k · March 6, 2005

Bobcat

March 6, 2005

It's not a bobcat. It's too big. I think it's a grey wolf. I know there aren't supposed to be wolves around here, but there aren't supposed to be wolfs in the Adirondacks either, and I saw one there. I know people in Ringwood who live near the dump and spend a lot of time in the woods and they say they've seen wolves too.

The only other thing would be a large feral dog, but they usually go in packs and I don't know of any packs around here.

38.2k · March 6, 2005

I doubt its a bobcat. You can see the claws in the photo. Bobcats (and mountain lions) usually have their claws retracted. I's say large coyote is the most probable. They are common in the area.

March 6, 2005

I vote for a large coyote or maybe a coy dog.

8.1k · March 6, 2005

I saw some large similar tracks at my Project X: Alien cache today. Went straight down the hill and across the road. The animal must have been quite big since the tracks were quite deep. I wish I had my camera.

March 6, 2005

I'm leaning toward a large Eastern Coyote based on Briansant's sketchs above. The toe size and pad design appear to be closest to that. And if someone said they can get to be 100 lbs, that sounds about right in relation to the size of the print in relation to Baileys (110 lb BMD).

Another reason I don't think it is a bocat is the overall size of the animal in relation to the depth of the snow. It was deep so this animal was tall enough to carry cleanly above it. I think I saw Bobcat prints today (Hamburg Mountain WMA - hint, hint new caches coming) and the animal seemed to drag its feet in between steps because the snow was so deep.

I probably hiked 6-7 miles in the Hamburg Mountain area today and didn't see one set of prints like the ones I saw near Valley View. There were canine prints but much smaller.

1.7k · March 7, 2005

Coyotes don't go 100 pounds, not even the largest Eastern. A 65-70 male would be extremely large for the species. Coyotes will however run trail, they are commonly seen running trails.

March 7, 2005

Wolves are doubful but coyotes are here. The eastern coyotes are much larger than their western cousins and sometimes push 70 lbs. I think that's the most likely source of your prints.

While supposedly the gray wolf population in the north east has increased enough that they've been upgraded from "endangered" to "threatened"; seeing one in the wild around here would be a rare treat indeed.

I've heard of eastern coyotes topping 100lbs, most likely due to cross-breeding with feral dogs.

I was responding to this feedback.

I'm still a skeptic that a 65-70 lb canine could produce prints that big. A 100+ lb weight seemed more reasonable to me given the size proximity to my own dog's prints.

Edited March 7, 2005 by Team Rampant Lion

March 7, 2005

The site where Brian got those track images has a forum:
Beartracker's Animal Tracks Den

Consider posting the pic there to try and get an ID.

I did post it here and the only response I received suggested it was the prints of a "Pekan". WHAT is that??

March 7, 2005

The site where Brian got those track images has a forum:
Beartracker's Animal Tracks Den

Consider posting the pic there to try and get an ID.

I did post it here and the only response I received suggested it was the prints of a "Pekan". WHAT is that??

A pekingese that's gone nuts?

1.7k · March 7, 2005

pekan

or fisher marten

North American marten (carnivorous mammal) Martes penanti about 1.2 m/4 ft long, with a doglike face, and brown fur with white patches on the chest. It eats porcupines.

Whoa, I didn't think anything ate porcupines, except of course several of you guys..

March 7, 2005

I didn't think we had Fishers in New Jersey.

Edited March 7, 2005 by lakelady

March 7, 2005

I didn't think we had Fishers in New Jersey.

Even if we had Fishers, they would not be as bad as visiting lawnguylanders

March 8, 2005

What?!!

Prints In The Snow By Valley View Lookout

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