Benchmark Noobie Question

[+globalgirl]

Couldn't find a Benchmark FAQ or Noobies section so, here I am - just in from a romp in the sunshine after finding my first 2 benchmarks. Well... make that maaaaybe 2. My first was a FTF on SY3928 (yea!) and there the benchmark was clearly one of those 4" or so disks.

 

But the other...

 

SY4062, found preeeeecisely at the posted coords, but it's a wholly different bitty disc that... none of the numbers on it (PLS 24835) match up with the numbers for SY4062. So question izzzz... is this, or is this not the benchmark for SY4062?

[+PFF]

Read the reference marks for this station and see if there is any similarity to what you found in the area.

 

-Paul-

Edited February 25, 2005 by PFF

[+1setter]

Just the fact that the marker was at the exact coordinates tells me it isn't the right one. They never are on an adjusted mark. It may be 50 to 500 feet away. This is the description location you are looking for. TEMP. PT. NO. 3 IS A 1/4 INCH BRASS ROD DRIVEN BETWEEN THE EXPANSION JOINTS OF THE SIDEWALK ALONG THE SOUTH EDGE OF EAST 54TH. STREET SOUTH OF THE F.A. MC DONALD SCHOOL. IT IS 15.5 FEET EAST-SOUTHEAST OF THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF A METAL METER BOX, 11.0 FEET WEST-SOUTHWEST OF THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF A METAL METER BOX, 5.2 FEET SOUTH OF A POWERLINE POLE BETWEEN HOUSE NUMBERS 123 AND 125 AND 2.0 FEET NORTH OF THE SOUTH EDGE OF THE SIDEWALK. THE BRASS ROD HAS A MARKED CROSS THAT WAS HELD AS THE POINT.

[+BuckBrooke]

I've found ADJUSTED stations to be very accurate, and SCALED stations to be mostly inaccurate. On the other hand, I agree with the notfound. However, in regards to finding the station or not, as I've seen in recovery reports, "Previous comment is sufficient in all regards". Welcome to the addiction, globalgirl.

Edited February 25, 2005 by BuckBrooke

[+globalgirl]

Gosh, this is all far more complicated than I thought.

 

I gather that the description locator that 1setter kindly cut and pasted for me is taken from the link PFF was pointing me to. A link to some what? global Macdonald point on the school roof or some such, and what? there's temporary(?) sub points set from that? one of which is possibly mine?

 

Guess I'll have to go back to see if I can locate the metal meter box that description mentions, but... while the rest of the description seems right, unfortunately, as you can all see in the photo there's no: "...THE BRASS ROD HAS A MARKED CROSS THAT WAS HELD AS THE POINT. "

 

Guess I just don't get it. If there's a mark precisely at the coords listed for a benchmark - how could that NOT be the benchmark? And if it isn't the benchmark, then what the heck is it???

[+PFF]

If there's a mark precisely at the coords listed for a benchmark - how could that NOT be the benchmark? And if it isn't the benchmark, then what the heck is it???

 

We have a long-standing theory about aliens and their space ships to explain some of the "unexplainable" marks. It's kinda like the maps from the 1600's which had sea serpents along the edges. (Translation: When you encounter the unknown, fall back to the "There be Dragons there" position.)

 

That having been said, we promise to get serious again, GGirl. The link I sent you is a common technique for getting additional information about a mark--especially when it is part of a multi-point triangulation station. Sometimes there are different descriptions when you look at various PID's. In this case, the primary disk is on the roof of a building (or so we are told!). The reference and azmith marks surround the station at various distances. Another helpful technique is to do a "nearest benchmark" search.

 

Try another visit to the site with the data sheet for the full station. Ignore the one on the roof for safety reasons! But see if you can recover the other marks. In so doing, you may stumble across some info that will explain the unusual benchmark that you found.

 

On the other hand, perhaps those strange markings REALLY DO stand for words like "planetary" and "stellar". In that case, you'd better keep your eye on the sky!

 

Let us know what you find....

 

-Paul-

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

Guess I just don't get it.  If there's a mark precisely at the coords listed for a benchmark - how could that NOT be the benchmark?  And if it isn't the benchmark, then what the heck is it???

 

The 'How' that can be the wrong benchmark is due to your GPSr. The amount of error in the reading can be off by as much as 30 feet, but most of the time it will be less than 15 feet.

 

If the object you are looking for is only 1/4 inch in diameter, that leaves a lot of room for it to be hiding in. This is why folllowing the written description is so important. In this case you need to refer to "McDonald"

 

What you have found appears to be another "Temporary Setting". The PLS is probably the Contractor/Surveyor initials and the 24835 may be the "job" number.

 

I'm betting there is a crack in the sidewalk nearby that has a 1/4" rod stuck in it and if you follow the description you will find it.

 

Good luck,

 

John

[+globalgirl]

Thanks All - this is all very helpful to a Benchmark noobie who doesn't even know what a "PID" is.

 

And yes 2OF, (having unearthed a good many micro caches) I surely know intimately the limits of GPSr accuracy , but in this case, I had 8 satts, with WAAS and an epe of but 10 ft. So... alls I'm saying is - no surprise I might find something there, yes? Just very curious that it doesn't have that "cross".

 

Nonetheless, I'm learning ever more nuances to this benchmarking, so will return with the macdonald printout and see what I can see...

[+PFF]

The US Power Squardron attempted to recover this specific mark on May 20, 2001. It was not found at that time.

 

I have a theory that the rod survived for a decade after being placed and then was removed/destroyed. (Remember, it says "temporary" mark in the description.) What you are seeing may be a local surveyor's replacement for the original rod.

 

I'm posting an aerial photo to the log for SY4062. There is a yellow dot at the spot indicated by the coordinates. Good luck!

 

-Paul-

 

[Z15]

PLS does stand for Professional Land Surveyor and 24835 is his state license number. But a search of the state of Washington license board has no one with that number.

 

Its likely a coincidence this is near the BM you are searching for.

Edited February 26, 2005 by elcamino

[+PFF]

GlobalGirl wrote:

This is all very helpful to a Benchmark noobie who doesn't even know what a "PID" is.

 

Whoops! Sorry about throwing out terms without definitions. "PID" refers to the identification number assigned to the station. The reference marks may or may not have an individual PID--which is why it is helpful to follow the link to NEAREST BENCHMARKS. That's how you get "the REST" of the story.

 

May I give an example? Last weekend, in Statesville, North Carolina, I checked out THIS STATION which consisted of the base disk and six reference marks, covering a time span from 1933 to 1992. Here are some things to note as you look at the data sheet:

 

*LENGTH OF THE RECOVERY REPORTS. The recovery descriptions run for several pages. Marks were set, destroyed, and reset over a period of sixty years.

 

*SUMMARY. After making notes for each individual disk, and after a personal investigation of the site, I condensed my report into a mark-by-mark synopsis of where things stand, today.

 

*REFERENCE MARK NOT INCLUDED IN MAIN STATION DESCRIPTION. This was the first time I've found such a situation. Reference Mark Six was monumented in 1992 and has its own PID. However, there was no mention of this in the original data sheet. (This will be corrected when NGS uploads my recovery reports. Meanwhile, I included a mention of RM6 in the geocaching presentation of the main station.)

 

*NEAREST BENCHMARKS. Click the link and see the interesting stuff located within a few hundred feet. The previous three GEOCACHING recoveries of RM6 did not do this, and they missed several tidbits of history!

 

Speaking of directions in data sheets, I sometimes joke that PID stands for Probably Inadequately Described. During a team hunt on Sunday, we discovered that STATION FB0351 had coordinates pointing to FB0352 on the wall of the Post Office, but the station was supposed to be 300 feet from the Post Office. Hello? When the correct disk was located by accident, we found that any resemblence between the description and the actual location was purely coincidence. Compare my report with the original. Did North and South reverse on Planet Earth?

 

Let me close with something entertaining. It is the saga of THE MISSING TRAIN DEPOT. When I arrived at the described location, there was no railway station. Just some bricks and debris. I sighed and went on to the next station (the big one mentioned above). Afterward, I decided to photograph the 1948 municipal water tank. On the way, I happened to drive by the relocated train depot. (Some days, I'd rather be lucky than smart!)

 

By the way, when I reported this to NGS, I had to choose from

one of these categories: FOUND, DISTURBED, or DESTROYED.

You be the judge.

 

Happy hunting, GlobalGirl. And remember.....what someone has been reporting in the past may or may not be accurate on the day you arrive. Don't be hesitant about questioning the validity of the description or the history.

 

Best regards,

-Paul-