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Walmarts As Anchors.


CoyoteRed
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OK, I've got a solution to our problems. We need to get together and create one large worldwide multi that encompasses every Walmart parking lot in the world. Then we can make a cache page that no one could possibly ever hunt, but would make it so no Walmart parking lot could be used again.

 

Edit: for the humor impaired, this post is in jest. Carry on.

 

--RuffRidr

Edited by RuffRidr
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OK, I've got a solution to our problems.  We need to get together and create one large worldwide multi that encompasses every Walmart parking lot in the world.  Then we can make a cache page that no one could possibly ever hunt, but would make it so no Walmart parking lot could be used again.

 

Edit: for the humor impaired, this post is in jest.  Carry on.

 

--RuffRidr

I'm in.

 

X

Edited by Clan X-Man
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Yes, I am indeed lurking!

 

CR, you just narrowly saved yourself twice in this thread. I knew you weren't going to use MY puzzle cache as an example!

 

Little yellow type/Carleen, I like you too, and if he is gonna flirt, I can't think of a better recipient!/end the little yellow type that I don't know how to enable.

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Can I drive ya’ll to the wally world, have done it before  ……. JOE

Yes, you have. I remember it like it was just yesterday....

 

{insert "bad flashback music" here}

 

It was July 3rd in Nashville, and Carleen and Lep were fixin' to spend the next 24 hours setting the world record for speed caching. But first they had some ground rules to lay down for Joe, the Wheelman. They had heard about some strange cache-huntin' methods in "Cacheville," and Carleen had to stamp her little pika-feet.

 

Carleen: "Now, Joe, we do have a couple of ground rules. Lep and I want to set the record in a totally honest, ethical fashion."

 

Lep: "Indeed we do. In particular, we insist that you *not* disclose the hiding spots for any of the microcaches.

 

It's now 10:30 a.m., a half hour into the marathon, when JoGPS pulls into a Wal-Mart parking lot.

 

Lep: "Oooh! A Wally World Micro! I've heard about these. It might be under a lamp post... but gee whiz, Joe, just drop us off here at the edge of the parking lot so we find it honestly."

 

Carleen: "This is going to be fun. There is no angst at Wally World."

 

She finds the cache.

 

Fast forward twelve hours to 10:30 p.m. They've found 113 caches in a row, and now know the location of 13 Wal-Mart stores in Central Tennessee. JoGPS pulls into the parking lot of Wally World #14 at 55 mph, and slams on the brakes, bringing the cachemobile to a screeching halt, with the hood ornament pointing straight at a lamp post eight feet away.

 

Joe: "I ain't tellin' you where it is. You guys got your rules and all."

 

Lep: "Thanks buddy. I think we can hike it from here without waypointing the car."

 

Carleen: "Stimpy, where's my ammo can?"

 

She finds the cache.

 

Fast forward six hours to 4:30 a.m. They've found 188 caches now, and are pulling up to Wal-Mart #23. Lep and Carleen wake up when they feel the cachemobile come to a gentle stop.

 

Lep: "Could you please tell us if it's on the left side of the lamp post or the right side?"

 

Carleen: "ooooh, shiny!"

 

She finds the cache.

 

Anyone who thinks that Wal-Mart micros are lame, or not a good hunt, or not fun, has never cached with JoGPS. It's an experience not to be missed if you are lucky enough to have the opportunity.

Edited by The Leprechauns
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Can I drive ya’ll to the wally world, have done it before  ……. JOE

Yes, you have. I remember it like it was just yesterday....

 

{insert "bad flashback music" here}

 

It was July 3rd in Nashville, and Carleen and Lep were fixin' to spend the next 24 hours setting the world record for speed caching. But first they had some ground rules to lay down for Joe, the Wheelman. They had heard about some strange cache-huntin' methods in "Cacheville," and Carleen had to stamp her little pika-feet.

 

Carleen: "Now, Joe, we do have a couple of ground rules. Lep and I want to set the record in a totally honest, ethical fashion."

 

Lep: "Indeed we do. In particular, we insist that you *not* disclose the hiding spots for any of the microcaches.

 

It's now 10:30 a.m., a half hour into the marathon, when JoGPS pulls into a Wal-Mart parking lot.

 

Lep: "Oooh! A Wally World Micro! I've heard about these. It might be under a lamp post... but gee whiz, Joe, just drop us off here at the edge of the parking lot so we find it honestly."

 

Carleen: "This is going to be fun. There is no angst at Wally World."

 

She finds the cache.

 

Fast forward twelve hours to 10:30 p.m. They've found 113 caches in a row, and now know the location of 13 Wal-Mart stores in Central Tennessee. JoGPS pulls into the parking lot of Wally World #14 at 55 mph, and slams on the brakes, bringing the cachemobile to a screeching halt, with the hood ornament pointing straight at a lamp post eight feet away.

 

Joe: "I ain't tellin' you where it is. You guys got your rules and all."

 

Lep: "Thanks buddy. I think we can hike it from here without waypointing the car."

 

Carleen: "Stimpy, where's my ammo can?"

 

She finds the cache.

 

Fast forward six hours to 4:30 a.m. They've found 188 caches now, and are pulling up to Wal-Mart #23. Lep and Carleen wake up when they feel the cachemobile come to a gentle stop.

 

Lep: "Could you please tell us if it's on the left side of the lamp post or the right side?"

 

Carleen: "ooooh, shiny!"

 

She finds the cache.

 

Anyone who thinks that Wal-Mart micros are lame, or not a good hunt, or not fun, has never cached with JoGPS. It's an experience not to be missed if you are lucky enough to have the opportunity.

You know, I was *this close* to signing up for that run.

I'm darn sorry I didn't.

 

Except, you and Joe in the same vehicle? That mighta been scarey!

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Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but your puzzle will be sending cachers to 26 "junk" locations where there is no cache to stop someone else from sending them to that same "junk" location to find an actual cache.

Yes, I know it needs tweaking.

 

However, you wouldn't need to visit all locations. The shortest route would be 4 locations. The longest would be, in fact, 40 locations. (And unlucky in the extreme.)

 

You could reduce the error by answering questions to learn which is the correct route. You wouldn't know if you've gotten one of them wrong until you hit a dead end.

 

Or, as one of the caches we've hunted already, each wrong answer sends you to an immediate dead end and no wasted trips beyond that. It is set in the woods and was actually quite fun.

Whats the point? Do you not see the irony in it all. You are sending people to visit somewhere that a cache may never be placed. But in case it is being considered, you want it as yours so others can't place one.

 

Secondly you are deciding to police where is acceptable to hide a cache and where is not on your own personal belief system. Your personal choice is affecting the community. If you choose to just not hunt it you only affect yourself.

Edited by 5¢
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Do you not see the irony in it all.

The irony I see is that while it is perfectly okay to place 40 Walmart micro traditionals some folks would complain if those same 40 micros were rolled into a multi. If it were a linear multi you'd still be visiting the same places, only you'd be getting one smilie. Same locations, same hunts, same experiences except instead of signing a log you'd be writing down coordinates--and in the end you'd be rewarded with a decent location.

 

Secondly you are deciding to police...
No. I'm just placing caches. There is no way I can take up every lame location. Besides, first come, first serve. You play your game, I'll play mine. Wow, who'd figured that line would have been going back the other way?
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No. I'm just placing caches. There is no way I can take up every lame location. Besides, first come, first serve. You play your game, I'll play mine. Wow, who'd figured that line would have been going back the other way?

 

I agree wholeheartedly. If you decide to use every Walmart parking lot you find as a jumping off point for a multi or a puzzle, you have just as much right as the person who wants to put a micro there.

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No. I'm just placing caches. There is no way I can take up every lame location. Besides, first come, first serve. You play your game, I'll play mine. Wow, who'd figured that line would have been going back the other way?

 

I agree wholeheartedly. If you decide to use every Walmart parking lot you find as a jumping off point for a multi or a puzzle, you have just as much right as the person who wants to put a micro there.

Ditto that here ! If that's what you want to do Go for it !!

;)

 

Star

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Anyone who thinks that Wal-Mart micros are lame, or not a good hunt, or not fun, has never cached with JoGPS.  It's an experience not to be missed if you are lucky enough to have the opportunity.

Hmmmmmm... ;)

 

 

Of course, you can try to up the ante a bit on these types of caches. This cache of mine is in a store parking lot around behind the store. You can park 30 - 40 feet away from it, but I bet many people have walked a mile or more as they do the drunken bee dance looking for it. It is all in how you do it. You can throw out a guardrail film can or you can give people a bit of a challenge.

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mtn-man, I think you should do a little more investigating into the Wal-Mart micros are lame situation, why don’t you jump into your geo-mobile and take the five hour drive to Nashville, meet me at 7:00 in the morning and we will do an in depth study of wally world micros , that is of course if you have nothing better to do , shoot we could even eat breakfast at wally world before starting…………. JOE

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Yes, I am indeed lurking!

 

CR, you just narrowly saved yourself twice in this thread. I knew you weren't going to use MY puzzle cache as an example!

 

Little yellow type/Carleen, I like you too, and if he is gonna flirt, I can't think of a better recipient!/end the little yellow type that I don't know how to enable.

I think you and I should get together sometime. We can dump the guys off at wal-mart to shop for shoes, ignore the lightpole in the parking lot (or not depending on our mood) and then go find some cool caches. Oh and gossip about the shoe shopping men while we are at it! :huh::lol::o

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Fast forward twelve hours to 10:30 p.m. They've found 113 caches in a row, and now know the location of 13 Wal-Mart stores in Central Tennessee. JoGPS pulls into the parking lot of Wally World #14 at 55 mph, and slams on the brakes, bringing the cachemobile to a screeching halt, with the hood ornament pointing straight at a lamp post eight feet away.

 

Joe: "I ain't tellin' you where it is. You guys got your rules and all."

 

Lep: "Thanks buddy. I think we can hike it from here without waypointing the car."

 

Carleen: "Stimpy, where's my ammo can?"

 

There is an error here. I didn't use the "Stimpy where's my ammo can?" line until after the sun came up. I want to say that it was around 7:30 am when we where in the Oprey Land parking lot area. :lol:

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I've never seen eye to eye with CR on a lot of things, but I applaud him for taking up the cause of trying to promote cache quality. There may be many things that will help this sport be a dynamic bit of fun five years from now, with possibly a million caches worldwide, but the most important aspect will the basic concept of a quality caching experience.

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mtn-man, I think you should do a little more investigating into the Wal-Mart micros are lame situation, why don’t you jump into your geo-mobile and take the five hour drive to Nashville, meet me at 7:00 in the morning and we will do an in depth study of wally world micros , that is of course if you have nothing better to do , shoot we could even eat breakfast at wally world before starting…………. JOE

Knowing my luck, I would not find them anyway and then carleenp would heckle me. She found them half asleep. Five hour drive, huh. I don't know.

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Fast forward twelve hours to 10:30 p.m.  They've found 113 caches in a row, and now know the location of 13 Wal-Mart stores in Central Tennessee.  JoGPS pulls into the parking lot of Wally World #14 at 55 mph, and slams on the brakes, bringing the cachemobile to a screeching halt, with the hood ornament pointing straight at a lamp post eight feet away.

 

Joe:  "I ain't tellin' you where it is.  You guys got your rules and all."

 

Lep:  "Thanks buddy.  I think we can hike it from here without waypointing the car."

 

Carleen:  "Stimpy, where's my ammo can?"

 

She finds the cache.

OK, so there is really only one way to get an objective perspective. Go do some. Go do lots.

 

After an extensive investigation today I still feel the same way. There are lots of caches out there. There are all types of caches. If you don't like the Walmart caches you can pass them by. If you want to block Walmart caches then I guess you can do that too. As I said before, it is all in the cache hider. The light pole cache sledgehampster links is a good example. I think doing that one today was more interesting with JoGPS snickering at me as I looked for it. (I am proud to say I found it without a hint from him.) It could have been a simple cache, but it wasn't. Kudos to him for creativity. The two Walmart caches we did were creative as well. There were a couple of times he said "Its either that tree or that tree", but mostly it was good fun caching today. I even found one that rolled out of place and down an embankment (we replaced it where the hint said it was supposed to be), and we came really really really really really really really really close to a looked-to-be-dead water moccasin -- that was very much alive. Some drive by caches just ain't drive by caches.

 

So, the moral of the story is... geocaching is what you make it. Make it fun and it will be.

 

Thanks JoGPS for showing me a cache or two today. It was indeed fun. :D

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So the moral of the story is that in order for it to be fun you need to be escorted to the good ones? Or is it because there are a few exceptions to the rule the rest get a pass? Or is it in order to have fun you need to cache in a group?

 

I'm thinking most cachers don't have an escort, cache mostly alone or as a couple, don't know which of the micros are the good ones, and after a while of being disappointed skip all caches that look like the crappy ones on the surface.

 

It would stand to reason that if you like placing decent caches that you don't want crappy caches that have the same markers are yours. Eventually, more folks will start skipping yours, too.

 

"Their loss?" Not really. They just skip yours and continue on to ones they'll more likely enjoy. Seems like the loss is yours.

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I never said we only did good ones. We didn't really skip any. We drove from one to the next one. I pulled a PQ of caches 2.5 or less and we did all of them from a starting point until I found the number of caches I wanted to. The only ones we really skipped were the few I could not find. We did not do the good ones or the bad ones. We did them all in that area, finds or not.

 

I'm not going to insult people and call their caches "crappy". I think they were all fun in their own way. Feel free to be insulting if you want. The moral of the story still stands.

 

Make it fun and it will be.

 

If it is not fun for you then don't blame other people. Frankly, I could have done these caches by myself and had originally planned to. But how much fun is that? It was much more enjoyable driving around all day with a good friend. The great thing about this game is you can play it any way you want to. I could have chosen to do it by myself, but at the last minute I contacted JoGPS. I think he dropped some things just to spend the day with me. I felt honored. It was most certainly more fun, in my opinion.

 

Ironically, I place many hard, well done caches in many cases (one example is posted above). They don't get as many finds. To some people, these harder caches are "crappy" (I prefer to use less desirable, but that's your word for them). In their opinion the caches you call "crappy" are great caches to them and they place these "crappy" caches so others that like easier caches can have fun caches to find. Maybe they are placing these easy caches that you call "crappy" to block other cachers who place difficult caches and puzzle caches and long multicaches, which they think are "crappy" caches. Your attitude is somewhat elitist frankly. I'm surprised that you of all people cannot see that.

 

Make it fun and it will be.

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Let's say you've got an idea for a multi, maybe a maze or something. Say the first location gives you 3 choices to the next stage. Each stage after that gives you 3 choices. The fourth level use 27 locations with all but one a dead end and the other takes you to the final. Not including the final location, that's 40 locations you need for each stage. Each of the "right" choices take you a nice area. You wouldn't need waste a nice location on a wrong choice. Simply use a junk location.

 

But that's just one example of using junk locations when you need a "throw away" spot to further your hunt.

I'm not sure I fully understand this idea. Are you talking about using existing Wal-Mart micros as 'bogus' coordinates, or are you using Wal-Mart parking lots as 'bogus' coordinates to block cache placement?

Personally I think the first idea is kind of neat,

i.e. Here's a list of 10 coordinates there is a cache at each location, but only one is 'non-lame' IMHO, solve the puzzle to find the cool cache. If you wanted get really in to it, you could even have a pointed from a lame wal-mart cache to the cool location cache, kind of a needle in a haystack thing. Plus it adds some value to an otherwise supremely boring cache (i.e. is this the extra special super cool one that will point me to the top of a mountain?) You could even have a code in the log scroll that would be missed by the casual observer looking for the cache, but for someone who solved the puzzle would be obvious...

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So the moral of the story is that in order for it to be fun you need to be escorted to the good ones? Or is it because there are a few exceptions to the rule the rest get a pass? Or is it in order to have fun you need to cache in a group?

 

I'm thinking most cachers don't have an escort, cache mostly alone or as a couple, don't know which of the micros are the good ones, and after a while of being disappointed skip all caches that look like the crappy ones on the surface.

 

It would stand to reason that if you like placing decent caches that you don't want crappy caches that have the same markers are yours. Eventually, more folks will start skipping yours, too.

 

"Their loss?" Not really. They just skip yours and continue on to ones they'll more likely enjoy. Seems like the loss is yours.

*yawn* this has become soooooo very tiresome ................

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Watch these threads about so called lame caches, and locations all the time, and the only thing that never changes is the folks that suck, trying to force their opinions on everyone else, and yes that is what “you” are doing by beating a dead horse, ( this time a snake ) to death

 

There are “NO” lame caches

 

Someone have fun hiding it

 

Someone had fun finding it

 

If its in a location that you don’t want to be, and don’t need to buy any shoes drive on, its that simple, stop trying to suck the fun out of the game for someone else

 

One of the highlights from caching with my “BUDDY” from the deep south was when after finding the cache not three from this snake, those famous words were spoken “ Buba hold my beer and Watch this “ with that he poked the snake and it was very much alive.

 

I am just ducky, swimming around out here in the big pond of life having a blast, finding all types of caches and enjoying the company of good friends to the fullest, try it, it’s a lot more fun than complaining about something you will never have control over ……………… JOE

 

c642ab81-8709-40f0-b929-26c5434442bb.jpg

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Old Stone Bridge

 

While the train of thought is on location, and not wanting to be there, this cache is a good example I think,

 

Wal-Mart is cool if you want to shop while caching, like batteries, or shoes

 

A cool old bridge is Bad if there is a dead dog and a live snake

 

Again if you don’t like the surrounding drive on, and BTW he was going to poke the dog to see if it was alive also…… JOE

 

4e1e72b9-ba11-4fdf-9091-30f7748d26c2.jpg

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If you don't like to read CR's posts - you don't have to read.  If CR, or some other person that has opinions you don't like, has posted - just browse on, don't read em.

 

sd

Sounds like . . . if you don't like micros, don't hunt micros - is there an IGNORE button for forum contributors , too?

That's EXACTLY how it's supposed to sound. I'm glad you picked up on that. :P

 

And again, for the millionth time - it's not about micros - it's about poorly thought out, placed, and maintained caches.

 

I shouldn't have to filter out all micros because some people are lazy or just want to get a stat for a hide.

 

sd

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I'm thinking most cachers . . . don't know which of the micros are the good ones, and after a while skip all caches that look like the crappy ones on the surface.

 

I would heartily disagree based upon experience with the thirty-or-so fellow cachers I know and associate with regularly (AND what I read in the forum). . . we do NOT edit and skip caches based upon preconceived ideas of cache quality/value/location - WE hunt them all.

 

Someone gave us the gift of a cache, we are gonna give them the hunt & and an encouraging appreciative log. I feel this idea of caching is, without question, representative of the greater number.

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There are “NO” lame caches

 

Someone have fun hiding it

 

Someone had fun finding it

 

While I take your point, I think you overstate it. Saying someone's cache is lame because you saw a snake is like saying it's lame because you got into a traffic accident on the way to the cache. Some things are just beyond the hider's control.

 

On the other hand, if I place one on the grounds of a large corporate campus without permission, and the security people call the police and have a finder arrested for trespassing, wouldn't that be pretty lame?

 

To me "lame" is when the hider blatantly ignores factors that are well within their control that are liable to make the cache no fun for people. Especially if the "no fun" part involves dangers that are constant and not obvious. A hiking cache type example would be placing a cache in a tree with a huge active beehive. If the beehive was there when the cache was placed, that's just lame. If a person seeking your cache would potentially face arrest (or being shot at) for attempting to recover it - that's lame.

 

I'm not saying these should all be perfectly safe. No such things exist, and certain kinds of risks are inherent in this activity. I'm just saying that incidental dangers such as animals that happen to wander by a cache don't make it lame, while inherent dangers - enticing someone into harm's way without their knowledge of the risks - do make for a lame cache.

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I wouldn't necessarily think that a cache in the area of a beehive is lame. It just will take more work to make the find.

 

I cache placed without permission on a corporate campus in a no trespassing area isn't necessarily lame, it would violate the guidelines, however, and should be archived.

 

If you would like to define 'lame' as 'in violation of the guidelines', that's cool. We can end this thread and avoid any future 'lame' threads because everyone would be in agreement. However, if you are going to define 'lame' as 'CR doesn't like it so it should not be in his game' then no dice.

 

I think that most cachers go find (and enjoy) whatever caches present themselves to them. In my area, I may go after a few caches on my way home. Maybe if I have a free day, I'll try to get as many as I can in a certain area. If I'm taking a road trip, I'll look for any that are on my way. When in a strange city, I'll let the caches show me around.

 

Its like the man said, every cache is a gift.

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I wouldn't necessarily think that a cache in the area of a beehive is lame. It just will take more work to make the find.

 

I cache placed without permission on a corporate campus in a no trespassing area isn't necessarily lame, it would violate the guidelines, however, and should be archived.

 

If you would like to define 'lame' as 'in violation of the guidelines', that's cool. We can end this thread and avoid any future 'lame' threads because everyone would be in agreement. However, if you are going to define 'lame' as 'CR doesn't like it so it should not be in his game' then no dice.

 

I think that most cachers go find (and enjoy) whatever caches present themselves to them. In my area, I may go after a few caches on my way home. Maybe if I have a free day, I'll try to get as many as I can in a certain area. If I'm taking a road trip, I'll look for any that are on my way. When in a strange city, I'll let the caches show me around.

 

Its like the man said, every cache is a gift.

So you're saying most of the hides at WalMarts or in strip malls are lame because most of them are on private property without the owner's permission? That violates the guidelines, doesn't it? I think that would suit CR just fine... :P

 

Let's face it, there are a LOT of hides that violate the guidelines in the sense that they are on private property with no permission granted. A blind eye is turned to these types of hides - with reason - the odds that you'll get arrested for hunting a cache in the WalMart parking lot are quite low. The trouble is that sometimes people have trouble seeing the difference between Walmart, and other, more security conscious, less public types of businesses. There's a nod and a wink to this type of situation, and not everyone picks up on the distinctions.

 

There's a cache near me that's an easy park and grab on an old, abandoned railroad track. Kind of a cool spot. I began to wonder about it when the cache owner posted a note saying to 'ignore the Barney Fife security guard when you are hunting the cache.' Not a good sign. So I drove over there and checked it out. Yeah, the cache itself was probably OK, but the obvious parking place was in the back parking lot of a semiconductor manufacturing company! No kidding the security guard got upset with cachers. (I took a pass on this cache.) Had the hider suggested legal parking, I think it would have been OK. But the note about the security guard makes it pretty obvious the hider was trespassing to place this cache in the first place, and enticing others to do the same. So call me elitist and judgemental, but I think that's pretty lame.

 

Finding a way on the map to avoid crossing 6 creeks and heavy bushwhacking to retrieve the cache = good puzzle. Finding a way on the map to avoid getting arrested or shot while retrieving the cache = lame. (You shouldn't have to do this.) But that's just me.

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I know this is going off track, since the original thread was about Walmart micros, and it has now morphed into a "lame" cache debate, but what the hell.

 

So the reasoning by most here is that there is no such thing as a "crappy" cache. Somebody, somewhere might find it interesting. So, if I take a dump, and hide a film container in it, could that be considered a "crappy" cache. Maybe a group of you could all come and search for it. That would "make it fun".

 

I know this is in the extreme, but not all caches are fun, by any reasoning. And even if one person does somehow find some of these "crappy" ones fun, I see no reason to celebrate it, because that hider has probably wasted the time of another 40 finders who thought "why bother".

 

We don't need to go and ban any cache types, cache hides, or methods. But can't we strive to make the caching in our areas the very best that it can be?

 

--RuffRidr

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So you're saying most of the hides at WalMarts or in strip malls are lame because most of them are on private property without the owner's permission? That violates the guidelines, doesn't it? I think that would suit CR just fine...  :P ...

 

There's a cache near me that's an easy park and grab on an old, abandoned railroad track. Kind of a cool spot. I began to wonder about it when the cache owner posted a note saying to 'ignore the Barney Fife security guard when you are hunting the cache.' Not a good sign. So I drove over there and checked it out. Yeah, the cache itself was probably OK, but the obvious parking place was in the back parking lot of a semiconductor manufacturing company! No kidding the security guard got upset with cachers. (I took a pass on this cache.) Had the hider suggested legal parking, I think it would have been OK. But the note about the security guard makes it pretty obvious the hider was trespassing to place this cache in the first place, and enticing others to do the same. So call me elitist and judgemental, but I think that's pretty lame....

You have two issues in your post.

 

The first regarding whether caches at WalMart are against the guidelines. I argue that they are not. WalMart, more than any other retailer, have openly allowed usa of their parking lots for uses other than just parking while you shop. A well known example of this is allowing RV parking for days at a time (or longer). I rather doubt that they would have too big of a problem with caches on lightpoles.

 

Your other issue involves whether caches should be allowed if the only convenient parking would require trespassing. I submit that they should. It is the hunter's responsibility to park legally. There are many examples of caches that require a signinficant hike. These would be much easier to log if you could park wherever you wanted, but you can't. Part of the game (and life) is figuring out where to park and how to best access the cache.

 

I can't really comment on RuffRidr's post as I'm not sure what his point was.

Edited by sbell111
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But can't we strive to make the caching in our areas the very best that it can be?

As individuals we can. But as a community? Not so easy, given the wide range of views as to what it means to be 'best'.

 

Of course, there are legitimate ways for any individual to try guide the game in what they view as the right direction: you can put forth your particular views in these forums, or in discussions with other cachers, you can lead by example, you can write comments in logs. Perhaps there are some ways (like the one being proposed in this topic) to take pre-emptive measures which fall within the GC.com guidelines in the hope that you can positively impact the quality of caches in a given area, or on a wide scale. But ultimately, its still a person-at-a-time activity when it comes to making decisions about where the next new cache will placed.

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I can't really comment on RuffRidr's post as I'm not sure what his point was.

My point is that some caches do suck, are lame, and crappy. Some people are going to extreme lengths to prove otherwise. I can't wait to see how a turd covered film cannister will likewise be touted as a cache worthy of hunting. Why is everyone so afraid of admitting that some caches have no redeeming value? This is almost absurd.

 

--RuffRidr

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You have two issues in your post.

 

The first regarding whether caches at WalMart are against the guidelines. I argue that they are not. WalMart, more than any other retailer, have openly allowed usa of their parking lots for uses other than just parking while you shop. A well known example of this is allowing RV parking for days at a time (or longer). I rather doubt that they would have too big of a problem with caches on lightpoles.

 

I was making a little joke - hence the :P

I think I said as much. My point was that it wasn't obvious to everyone that they are the exception, rather than the rule.

 

Your other issue involves whether caches should be allowed if the only convenient parking would require trespassing.  I submit that they should. 

 

I don't disagree, but that wasn't my point. My point was in a couple of different examples I've mentioned today, hiders pretty clearly had a hard time telling the difference of when it was sort of OK to put a cache on private property with no permission (Walmart) and when they were outright trespassing. (A semiconductor company and an insurance company.)

 

I think if there's a parking lot 50' from the cache, but you know it's private property and the cacher who parks there is liable to get in trouble, it's pretty irresponsible not to mention this. If the only legal path to the cache is long and unobvious, make it a multi or give them a starting waypoint and a couple of intermediate waypoints to keep 'em out of trouble. I'm not saying you have to hold their hand and give parking coords all the freakin' time - but my goodness, when it's easier to for someone to trespass than not, isn't it responsible to mention this especially if the risk isn't obvious. I'm not talking about some nitwit who decides to jump John Q. Muggle's backyard fence to nab the cache PDQ. I'm talking about situations where the OBVIOUS place to start is the one where you DON'T want to start because of private property issues.

 

It's one thing when the cacher sees a bunch of "No Parking" or "No Trespassing" signs. If he ignores those - that's really not your problem. But there are a LOT of urban hides that terminate in or near parking lots - 99% of these are fine, but how in the HECK is the finder supposed to know he risks arrest at one of these where caching is not OK with the property owner? If there's no warning about the problem from the hider, what chance does the finder have? For that matter, why would you hide something in proximity to a place where a person was liable to be harrassed by guards? Where's the fun in that? There's lots of places where it's completely OK to hide something.

 

Both of the problem examples I've mentioned today looked like every other urban hide I've done. The difference was that the hider didn't do their homework, and my assertion is that the fast and loose interpretation of private property that happens here sometimes leads people to think that anything with a parking lot connected to the street is a fair place to hide something. If you are going to play the game, you better know the rules in your area, or the guy who hunts your cache is liable to pay a stiff price for your mistake.

 

What in the guidelines is to make someone understand:

Walmart - we're pretty sure this is fine

Mall or strip shopping center - again, probably no permission needed

Office complex - no permission needed at some, but others will bust you for trespassing

So when exactly do you need to ask for permission? Is it any wonder folks get this wrong sometimes?

 

It's fine to take the attitude "It's better to ask for forgiveness than permission", until you realize that the hider is almost never the one who has to ask for forgiveness in this type of situation.

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http://www.todayscacher.com/2005/feb/health.asp

 

Might want to think about it when you dog the walmart micros etc........... :)

 

your trash in your minds is others treasures. We don't think about others do we?

*sigh* This argument again. I understand that there are people with limitations. But do you really think that a 10' walk to the park-n-grab provides anyone with enough physical activity to make any difference to their condition, really? I don't. Frequently moderate exercise helps people with chronic illnesses, provided they don't go overboard. I assert that it is possible to combine these two things, fun and moderate exercise, and that if done carefully, you are doing a person with an illness or disability a HUGE favor by providing them with a moderate exercise that they will enjoy. Therefore, I argue many of these types of caches with very short distances from the parking to the cache are the WORST thing you can do for a disabled person - they provide the illusion of exercise with no real physical benefit.

 

Now if 20% of the cache hides in my area were like this, you know what? I'd shut up about this. I still think 20% is probably too high a percentage - but hey, maybe I'm wrong and there are several desperately ill people near me who clutch their oxygen bottle after walking 20' to the lamppost and this truly is all they can do for fun. Awesome, I'm glad we can provide them with entertainment, Lord knows they need it. But it's not 20%. Last week 80% of the new hides in my area were like this! So either DFW is awash in near-terminal-condition geocachers, or else a lot of people just like these effortless finds. I think it's the latter.

 

The ironic part for me about the arguments about disabled people and park-n-grabs is that *I'm* disabled. I desperately need the exercise, and lots of my alternatives are not very much fun. (As in either terribly impractical, or quite uncomfortable.) It's actually quite hard for me to walk long distances - but I find that I can forget about the discomfort while caching. (When I was a kid, they never figured I'd walk - but I mange it, sort of.) I'm not sure why, but I have a blast, and will exercise for far longer bushwhacking through someplace than just about anything I'll put up with in a gym.

 

So please, spare me this line of argument - if I hear this again I'm going to throw up. Other disabled geocachers I've heard of have worse physical problems than I do, and can probably kick my a** at the caches they find. So please, enough already.

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http://www.todayscacher.com/2005/feb/health.asp

 

Might want to think about it when you dog the walmart micros etc........... :)

 

your trash in your minds is others treasures. We don't think about others do we?

Fantastic article , and I lost my Mother to lupus 18 years ago .. she was only 46 when she passed because of the illness . I am sure she would have loved geocaching .

 

My neighbor likes go cache as well but she has heart problems and diabites ( sorry for the spelling ) Thus the types of caches she may hunt is also limited. Sometimes even walking into the store can be problematic for her. So a micro in a walmart lamppole is a bonus for her. On her good days she will attempt something with a bit more of a hike .

 

Star

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So either DFW is awash in near-terminal-condition geocachers, or else a lot of people just like these effortless finds. I think it's the latter.

 

Really, if you think about it, that ought to answer and finsh off this thread - "a lot of people just like these effortless finds", or they wouldn't exist.

Again - effortless finds don't have to be in terrible locations.

 

I like an easy find as much as the next person. I just don't like easy finds in poor (and a location can be poor for a variety of reasons, they've been mentioned before but people seem to zoom in on the word micro and ignore everything else) areas.

 

I don't think I'm alone in noticing that the increase in poorly thought out caches (yes, they are mainly micros, but people don't dislike them BECAUSE they are micros) came after the guidelines for virtuals were made more strict. Now, instead of somebody making a virtual of the illegal dump site - they put a film can by it. (And no, the pages don't mention CITO - which wouldn't be a bad thing).

 

sd

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Off topic

 

I am sure she would have loved geocaching .

 

I know the feeling - I miss my folks every day! Dad died in '87 and mom in '92 - super people - social, generous, active hunters, fishers and lifelong outdoors folk, they loved to travel; tent camp, swank round-the-world cruises, whatever! These people were loved by all.

 

But, now that you mention it - they'd have been totally disinterested in geocaching!

 

Your post brought great memories back, but it's the first time I've thought about how pointless they would have found this game I love!

 

And, they wouldn't have dreamed of spending 5 minutes in an online forum - maybe I should learn more from them!

 

Too funny!

Ed

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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