Dpm?

[+nfa]

The OP has been answered, and this thread is wandering off-topic with attacks looming on the horizon...I am therefore closing the thread...

 

oh wait, I'm not a moderator...

[WH]

The OP has been answered, and this thread is wandering off-topic with attacks looming on the horizon...I am therefore closing the thread...

 

oh wait, I'm not a moderator...

First they came for the moving caches and I did not speak out because I disliked moving caches.

 

Then they came for the locationless caches and I did not speak out because I disliked locationless caches.

 

Then they came for the virtuals and I did not speak out because I disliked virtuals.

 

Then they came for my caches and there was no one left to speak out for them.

 

* modified version of "First They Came for the Jews" By Pastor Niemoller

[+briansnat]

They are the ones with no interest beyond signing the log. They are the ones that serve only to increment a find count. They are the ones that leave one wondering, "just what is the purpose of this?"

 

Im not a big numbers fan but it is an apect of the game the alot of others enjoy. Just because you or I don't enjoy it doesnt mean that we should stop others from enjoying as well.

I think some of these "lame" caches serve a purpose. When I visited my in-laws, a day of going from Wal-mart lamp posts to dumpsters behind strip malls actually got me out of the house and saved me from boredom. I think the problem comes when these become the only, or predominant kind in an area. These things multiply like salmonella on unrefrigerated chicken salad in August.

[WH]

I think some of these "lame" caches serve a purpose. When I visited my in-laws, a day of going from Wal-mart lamp posts to dumpsters behind strip malls actually got me out of the house and saved me from boredom. I think the problem comes when these become the only, or predominant kind in an area. These things multiply like salmonella on unrefrigerated chicken salad in August.

What harm do they do to your enjoyment of the sport? Just because they are there doesnt mean you have to go hunt for them. If these types of caches are not to your liking, you are free to ignore them and look for ones that are.

 

Dont try to derail valid caches for no other reason than you don't like them.

[+nfa]

When I go into our local public library, there are lots of books I don't want to read...romance novels, biographies, books on beekeeping, etc.

 

Man, would it be terrible if I had to read all of those books!

 

The good news is I don't.

 

Do I wish my library had more of the books I like and less of the ones I don't? Yes.

 

The thing is, our library, like geocaching, is meant for everyone to enjoy, even people who like books or geocaches I don't like.

 

I can influence my library by giving them the types of books I like (and influence geocaching similarly by placing the types of caches I like), but in the end, these things belong to everyone, and so should be representative of everyone who enjoys them.

 

nfa-jamie

[dead_white_man]

When I go into our local public library, there are lots of books I don't want to read...romance novels, biographies, books on beekeeping, etc.

 

Man, would it be terrible if I had to read all of those books!

 

The good news is I don't.

 

Do I wish my library had more of the books I like and less of the ones I don't? Yes.

 

The thing is, our library, like geocaching, is meant for everyone to enjoy, even people who like books or geocaches I don't like.

 

I can influence my library by giving them the types of books I like (and influence geocaching similarly by placing the types of caches I like), but in the end, these things belong to everyone, and so should be representative of everyone who enjoys them.

 

nfa-jamie

Man! I really like this analogy.

[+wimseyguy]

If you ever win your crusade you will have restricted my freedom to place caches as I see fit. That is not acceptable in any way.

I think some of these "lame" caches serve a purpose. I think the problem comes when these become the only, or predominant kind in an area

What you fail to understand is if you don't limit yourself someone else will do it for you. Remember virtuals? Remember code-word caches? It's not that those types of caches are bad, it's was the irresponsible cachers abusing them

Thank you so much for volunteering to be the cache police for all of us.

 

As I already posted, I found the cache in question in this particular thread. It made me smile. It added one more to my found column as I was racing back to our friends home for dinner. Sometimes that's all it takes to make this fun. Sometimes I would rather make a 3 mile hike to find one cache with a wonderful view. Sometimes I'll spend all day on an eight mile trek finding several caches that also lead to a multi. I guess I'm a commoner, not an elitest.

 

I have yet to cache in any area where "lame" caches have become the predominant type. I think as long as cachers come from all backgrounds and interests that the diversity of hides will increase. That's a good thing for our sport. The more we restrict the types of hides and cachers, the slower the sport will develop and evolve. That's not a good thing.

 

PS huzzah huzzah to Star for that wonderful soapbox presentation. I just couldn't decide what to quote.

[+Lean Wolf]

Call me an elitist.

You wish!

[+geospotter]

Let's see if I've got this right....

 

The cache finder and his friends decided they wanted some sort of code to indicate to each other that a particular cache was lame. My guess is that the group of friends have similar tastes in caches or there would be no need for the code. So it's a small group of people who even know what DPM means and an even smaller group that actually uses it.

 

Rather than saying to his friends "don't waste your time on this one" in the cache log they used the code.

 

I fail to see how this is slamming the cache. Sounds like a good way to let your caching associates know your opinion on this one without blatantly insulting the hider. Most log readers (including the OP in this case) would have no idea what it means.

[+Wyoming Travelers]

Personally, when I have to make my way through a garbage strewn lot and search for a cache among the feces left by the inhabitants of a nearby homeless encampment, carefully making my way around used hypodermic needles and empty wine bottles to find a moldy, soaked logbook in a cracked Gladware container hidden under a rotting piece of plywood, its lame. I realize however that some people actually like caches like this. To each his own. But at least allow me to express my disgust in my log if I so choose. Call me an elitist.

 

I agree.

 

WYLostinMA- You won't be able to please everyone. Some people will like it, some people won't. Some people won't care either way - it's a cache, there for the "hunting." I did one of yours, my first lamp pole micro.... It wasn't thrilling, but it also wasn't the WORST Wal-Mart cache I have done (that was the next day, in Vermont of all places). But, you should know, there aren't, relatively speaking, a lot of micros in New England - and there's a reason for that - many people in these parts don't like them.

 

But, you are welcome to place them. Just be able to accept negative feedback, no matter what you place - it's part of the game. I placed a cache not too long ago that just didn't seem to "do it" for most of the locals - low visits, lackluster posts - even though I thought the area was very cool. But that was just it - the AREA was cool, but the hide was lame. So, it's disabled until I can make it better.

 

And, BTW, park and grabs can be cool, at least to some degree. I have one that very clearly states that it is a quickie, but it has some history info at the sight and the hide is kinda neat. I have had some of the best comments about this cache, even though it's small and takes about two minutes - it can be done.

 

Good luck. Don't take things so persoanlly - it'll only make you crazy.

Perhaps the cache was placed so you could take your lazy behinds to the cache with a trash bag to help clean up the " encampment"

[+New England n00b]

Let's see if I've got this right....

 

The cache finder and his friends decided they wanted some sort of code to indicate to each other that a particular cache was lame. My guess is that the group of friends have similar tastes in caches or there would be no need for the code. So it's a small group of people who even know what DPM means and an even smaller group that actually uses it.

 

Rather than saying to his friends "don't waste your time on this one" in the cache log they used the code.

 

I fail to see how this is slamming the cache. Sounds like a good way to let your caching associates know your opinion on this one without blatantly insulting the hider. Most log readers (including the OP in this case) would have no idea what it means.

 

Actually, Briansnat developed DPM here in the forums as a semi-joke (at least I believe it was Briansnat). It is not a local cachers crew term - it's a forum term. Anyway, it's pretty rude. I would have definitely been more diplomatic with caches I didn't care for - in fact, I have. I can think of one cache I found that I felt deserved a DPM. Subsequent finders however loved it. I didn't slam the cache, but I didn't think it would be appreciated by anyone.

 

That was a learning experience for me. I only hope when I get the opportunity to hide a cache, people will be constructive in thei criticism, not 'kick-em-while-he's-down' jerks.

Edited February 23, 2005 by New England n00b

[+briansnat]

What harm do they do to your enjoyment of the sport? Just because they are there doesnt mean you have to go hunt for them. If these types of caches are not to your liking, you are free to ignore them and look for ones that are.

 

First, you can't always tell if its lame until you get there. Second, as far as harm, in many areas they become the only kind of cache available, so variety suffers and I'm left without the kinds of caches that I like to look for.

[+AtoZ]

This is about one of the FUNNIEST threads I have see. Someone ask for a definition of an acronym and it has turned into a knock down drag out fight, well within forum guidelines. I find it funny when I start a thread on what makes a cache lame I get lamblasted for making the post. Now I see my mistake I should have ask why is the sky blue and hten I would have found out. O'well I am glad it is just a game.

cheers

[+sbell111]

...I wonder just how different the landscape would be if you couldn't give feedback and you couldn't track your finds on the site. I'd bet a lot of folks would drop out because the numbers associated with their accounts is what makes them feel important. ...

While we are wondering and wandering off-topic, I wonder if those people who's worth in life is derived from their holier-than-thou attitude throughout the forums would give up the game if the forums didn't exist.

 

It would be just horrible if they had to play the game without forcing their ideas on everyone else.

[+Team Tigger International]

What harm do they do to your enjoyment of the sport? Just because they are there doesnt mean you have to go hunt for them. If these types of caches are not to your liking, you are free to ignore them and look for ones that are.

 

First, you can't always tell if its lame until you get there. Second, as far as harm, in many areas they become the only kind of cache available, so variety suffers and I'm left without the kinds of caches that I like to look for.

If a cache is in a City , chances are really good that its going to be a Micro . Most Cities I have been to are very limited on the wooded, long hike type of Parks that a good many people prefer .. Therefore whats the harm once again ? If its a cache in a nature preserve of some type or another , chances are it will be a nice hike . I really don't see Variety suffering as a major problem . The problem comes when others try to make everyone play there game. Hence the loss of Traveling Caches , Locationless and virtually all the Virtuals .

 

Most cases it is not that hard to figure out what type of cache you are hunting .

 

Star

[+sbell111]

I think "DPM", however cryptic it may be to those who might not have read about it in the Forums, gets the job done quite effectively.  It beats "I thought your cache sucked", doesn't it?

...

 

The log said something like:

 

DPM TNLN TFN

 

Funny, I have much less of a problem with 'DPM' than I do with the very rude 'TFN'.

Edited February 23, 2005 by sbell111

[CoyoteRed]

They are the ones with no interest beyond signing the log. They are the ones that serve only to increment a find count. They are the ones that leave one wondering, "just what is the purpose of this?"

 

Im not a big numbers fan but it is an apect of the game the alot of others enjoy. Just because you or I don't enjoy it doesnt mean that we should stop others from enjoying as well.

I'm sure folks enjoyed the code word caches and waypointing every historical marker, too.

 

Quite frankly, I'm just about ready to step back and say go ahead. Then, when the fall out happens, I'll just sit back and gloat.

[+sbell111]

...If you post a DPM message and that was my cache I would reply GFY. ...

I was lost for a second because I read it as 'Good For You'.

 

edit: that will teach me to post as I read, Noob made the same comment, only timely.

Edited February 23, 2005 by sbell111

[CoyoteRed]

Entirely YOUR OPINION

Second example of being the Mistriss of the Obvious.

 

No, I'm not wanting anything banned. My intent is point out junk caches are not good for the sport on so many different levels. Be it public preception, newbie indoctrination, or saturation to the point of tightening guidelines just like what happened with virts, cordword caches and more. In essence, I asking for restraint before the hammer drops.

 

Would you have been saying the same thing if I were cautioning against waypointing every historical marker or placing multitudes of code-word caches?

 

But, like I said above, I'm just about fed up. It seems as though some folks can't enjoy themselves if the cache is in a nice park or there is something interesting you've brought to.

[+briansnat]

If a cache is in a City , chances are really good that its going to be a Micro

 

Why are you equating urban micros with lame caches? I'm not. Sure, I prefer caches that involve long hikes, but I've found many interesting, quality urban caches and most were micros.

 

A little imagination goes a long way and a sticking a magnetic key holder in the base of a lamp post in every Wal-mart parking lot for 50 miles takes no imagination.

Edited February 23, 2005 by briansnat

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

We made a cache run to Chattanooga this weekend, cached our way up, met 40+ folks from three states for a combined Geocaching and WheresGeorge lunch, both games picked up some players as we learned from the other.

 

Set out on a wagon-train cache run at 2 p.m.; 11 carloads of geocachers followed a local that knows where the caches are (owns most of them) and could get us from place to place in a hurry.

 

Get to the cache, everyone jumps out and runs to find the cache - absolute blast watching this parade pull ito a parking lot, encircle a light-pole and 20+ cachers run to nab it first!

 

Everyone has FRS radio, so the airwaves are alive with geocachers chattering, joking, laughing.

 

GCMNC3

 

5 carloads still at it at 10 p.m. I think we did 90+ caches (I don't log 'em, so I didn't keep count!). If my math is right, subtracting potty, gas and coffee stops, we averaged 1 every 6 minutes!

 

I think that you will see by the logs that everyone involved had an absolute blast, met new friends, got to play with some old ones (literally - one of the cachers was 72) and had an experience we'll never forget.

 

This is the sixth wagon-train cache-run I have been on, and every one was memorable, exciting, and garnered me new friends that I now cache with regularly.

 

I am hosting a similar event in Central Alabama soon - April 9th a wagon-train will form up in Rainbow City Al, do the local caches, cache our way down 30 miles south to and around Birmingham, cache on down 30 miles south to the AGA Spring Fling M&G, then cache back to Birmingham. Join us - I can't tell you how much fun we have.

 

I have seen these group events swell the ranks of geocaching, knit hard feelings that had developed online by letting cachers actually spend time together, and provide some of my best geocaching friends and memories.

 

This kind of caching pretty much requires a supply of micros and "quick" finds...not necessarily light-pole easy, but something that a group of searchers can do in ten minutes or less.

 

I hope this helps y'all realize that there are all kinds of hides, cachers and ways to play the game.

 

If you find a cache you consider dangerous, by all means post it in your log.

 

If you find a cache to be lame, by your standards, sign TFTH (Thanks For The Hide) (a shorthand for "I don't have anything positive to say about this cache or my experience finding it") and don't hunt caches like that in the future!

 

And, if you have a whole lot of these "lame" caches in your area, contact me - I will organize a cache run in that area! I promise we'll have fun with them!

 

Ed

[+sbell111]

First, you can't always tell if its lame until you get there. Second, as far as harm, in many areas they become the only kind of cache available, so variety suffers and I'm left without the kinds of caches that I like to look for.

While I agree with you that you never really can tell if you are going to think a cache is lame until you get there, I think anyone who dislikes lightpole caches should avoid a 1/1 micro named 'Wally World'.

 

I actually disagree with your second point. I believe that people tend to hide caches that they would like to find. I have no doubt that if I came to your area, I would be able to go after some really nice traditional caches. This is because, from your posts, I believe that this is the type of cache that you like and that you are likely to hide them. People who live in your area and enjoy your caches are likely to hide similar ones.

 

The same is true for the so called 'lame micros'. Many people like these for a variety of reasons, so they hide them. They do end up outnumbering traditional caches because there are so many more places to hide them.

 

What they do not do, however, is push traditional caches out of an area. Very rarely do they encroach on an area that a traditional could be placed in.

 

Look, I live just south of Nashville. Many people love to hold up Nashville as an incubator for lame micros. However, Nashville has lots of all types of caches. The so called lame micros have not pushed the others out, nor could they.

[+Team Tigger International]

Entirely YOUR OPINION

Second example of being the Mistriss of the Obvious.

 

No, I'm not wanting anything banned. My intent is point out junk caches are not good for the sport on so many different levels. Be it public preception, newbie indoctrination, or saturation to the point of tightening guidelines just like what happened with virts, cordword caches and more. In essence, I asking for restraint before the hammer drops.

 

Would you have been saying the same thing if I were cautioning against waypointing every historical marker or placing multitudes of code-word caches?

 

But, like I said above, I'm just about fed up. It seems as though some folks can't enjoy themselves if the cache is in a nice park or there is something interesting you've brought to.

You are very consistant , I will give that to you .

 

By the Way thank you so much for resorting to Name Calling . That is so mature of you .

 

 

Would you have been saying the same thing if I were cautioning against waypointing every historical marker or placing multitudes of code-word caches?

 

For the record , I would.

 

Most of us also are not saying we wouldnt enjoy a nice park , or something interesting either . We just prefer not to have cache police , or the few, trying to determine what is best for everyone.

 

Also for the record I do prefer a nice hike , or a visit to an interesting location .

I for one can manage to find something enjoyable about any cache . If I don't care for a cache I will not go out on a rant about how lame , boring etc that it is either , as the next finder may find it Wonderful.

 

Star

[CoyoteRed]

Thank you so much for volunteering to be the cache police for all of us.

No problem.

 

I think I've made my case. If you all fail to understand, it's not my problem.

 

Here's what I understand from this thread:

• In order for a cache to be fun, it's got to be lame. "Why are you trying to ruin everyone's fun?" is a quote I hear a lot.
  
• Placing a cache in a nice urban park or nice setting ruins the hunt for a lot of people. (Which is the core of what folks are saying, basically.)
  
• Anything above a 1/1 can't be lame.
  
• The only place to put caches in an urban setting are "big box" parking lots.
  
• The only place one can enjoy a cache in an urban setting is a "big box" parking lot.
  
• Nice spots don't exist in urban settings.
  
• The only place to put a 1/1 cache, a park-n-grab, and/or accessible cache is in a "big box" parking lot.
  
• A nice urban setting with a view can't have a park-n-grab, 1/1, accessible cache.
  

Did miss anything? I'm sure I did as I can't seem to get my mind around the concept of junk caches being okay--that finding a nice urban setting is not as good as a Wal-mart parking lot.

[CoyoteRed]

Would you have been saying the same thing if I were cautioning against waypointing every historical marker or placing multitudes of code-word caches?

 

For the record , I would.

Then there is nothing more I can do on the subject.

[+Team Tigger International]

CR

Did miss anything? I'm sure I did as I can't seem to get my mind around the concept of junk caches being okay--that finding a nice urban setting is not as good as a Wal-mart parking lot.

 

Yeah you missed everything .

 

Like the biggest point . What you call Junk .. may not be Junk to EVERYONE . And the fact that no one at any point said a nice urban setting is not as good or better even then a Wal-mart parking lot.

 

The rest of what you accertained is just all twisted into your views once again, not what is actually being debated.

 

Star

Edited February 23, 2005 by Team Tigger International

[+briansnat]

I actually disagree with your second point. I believe that people tend to hide caches that they would like to find. I have no doubt that if I came to your area, I would be able to go after some really nice traditional caches.

 

I disagree. I think people tend to hide the kind of caches they find. If the "pioneer" cache hiders in an area hid traditional caches in nice areas, you will see a lot of that. If the first hiders in an area were hiding guardrail micros, the tend to be the dominant kind of hide. A newbie finds a cache or two and thinks that's what geocaching all about and usually imitates it when they go to hide one.

 

You really can't tell me that most people in Nashville and Jacksonville like lampost micros, but most in northern NJ like ammo boxes in parks and nice hikes.

 

I like to use southern VT as an example. Two years ago there were very few caches there and the majority of what there was, were 2 minute walks from the car. Now that geocaching has caught on, what kind of cache predominates? Two minute walks from the car. Never mind that there are many thousands of acres of beautiful state parks and national forest available for caches. Yet, northern Vt is the polar opposite, with many caches that are in beautiful areas and involve nice hikes. Are the people in these two parts of this tiny state really that different or did they just follow different examples?

[+Team Tigger International]

*looks around and has sense of de ja vu*

 

Wulf

[WH]

CR

Did miss anything? I'm sure I did as I can't seem to get my mind around the concept of junk caches being okay--that finding a nice urban setting is not as good as a Wal-mart parking lot.

 

Yeah you missed everything .

 

Like the biggest point . What you call Junk .. may not be Junk to EVERYONE . And the fact that no one at any point said a nice urban setting is not as good or better even then a Wal-mart parking lot.

 

The rest of what you accertained is just all twisted into your views once again, not what is actually being debated.

 

Star

What the tiger with the springy tail said.

[CoyoteRed]

...may not be Junk to EVERYONE

So, again, we will let a few ruin it for the rest of us. No problem. Just like virts, code-word caches, and more.

[+Renegade Knight]

What I noticed is that people tend to change their hides as they go. At first they want to place a cache and have it found. Then they start to get ideas. A long hike, a lock box, Near a monument and so on.

 

The other thing I notice is that all the easy cool spots are taken up first. They take you to where everyone knows about. That leaves the spots nobody knows about for the new people to find. Cache location scouting missions are not what people think of when they first start playing the game. They do eventually.

 

Most people evolve. They get tired of comments about wet logs and learn how to either hide them in dry spots or use better containers.

 

Locally we had all the easy caches stolen. Nothing was left but the very hard finds and the hikes. The newbies proptly filled in the holes with urban caches. Most everyone lives in an urban environment. We live, and work in town. It's easier to place those types of caches. The others take time but they are increasingin numbers as well. One local found the backroads and made a city view series. No one else had done much in the hills here.

 

People need a chance to grow with the game.

[+Renegade Knight]

...may not be Junk to EVERYONE

So, again, we will let a few ruin it for the rest of us. No problem. Just like virts, code-word caches, and more.

Naa, Just a minority.

 

A codeword virtual has the potential to take you to the spot the roadside sign hints at. So you can be in the battlefield and not just wonder if you are seeing it in the distance. A codeword micro is about as much fun as signing a log too small for my fingers. It's all relative.

 

I'll bet by now all your caches are nothing short of spectacular.

Edited February 23, 2005 by Renegade Knight

[+sbell111]

...I think I've made my case. If you all fail to understand, it's not my problem....

Don't you love it when people resort to, "I'm smart, you guys are just too stupid to see my brilliance"?

[WH]

Like I said previously, there will always be someone who has something to say no matter what kind of cache you hide. Therefore I will continue to hide caches that I hope others will enjoy. If one of my caches can bring a smile to just one finder, its all worth it.

[+MariettaGecko]

Wow. I wonder if we can get any more animosity in here. I think we need to see if we can start a total flame war. That would be lots of fun, wouldn't it?

 

Come on guys. We all geocache. While the OP believed that the cache he placed was a good one, someone else disliked it, and thus placed a note that said DPM on it. The OP didn't understand it, and asked us what it was. Those in the know responded. And then this thread went pseudo off-topic.

 

CoyoteRed, in response to your last post:

 

Here's what I understand from this thread:

 

    * In order for a cache to be fun, it's got to be lame. "Why are you trying to ruin everyone's fun?" is a quote I hear a lot.

    * Placing a cache in a nice urban park or nice setting ruins the hunt for a lot of people. (Which is the core of what folks are saying, basically.)

    * Anything above a 1/1 can't be lame.

    * The only place to put caches in an urban setting are "big box" parking lots.

    * The only place one can enjoy a cache in an urban setting is a "big box" parking lot.

    * Nice spots don't exist in urban settings.

    * The only place to put a 1/1 cache, a park-n-grab, and/or accessible cache is in a "big box" parking lot.

    * A nice urban setting with a view can't have a park-n-grab, 1/1, accessible cache.

 

Did miss anything? I'm sure I did as I can't seem to get my mind around the concept of junk caches being okay--that finding a nice urban setting is not as good as a Wal-mart parking lot.

 

A cache does not have to be "lame" in order to be fun. What people are saying is that your definition of "lame" is not the same as other peoples' definitions of "lame" and therefore where you may find the cache to be lame, others do not. A 3/3 cache which requires that the finder solve a puzzle and then go for a three mile hike in the woods to find a well-hidden ammo box is great. A 1/1 lightpole cache can also be great. It depends on many people's abilities. My father, for instance, currently has a broken leg as a result of goinf to search for a 2/3 cache where he slipped on some leaves. Although he should make a full recovery, at least for the time being, he cannot seek any caches with a terrain > 1. This is because he is more or less confined to a wheelchair, since he is very unstable on crutches yet.

 

A cache in a nive urban park is great. I would love to find more. Unfortunately, in all too many areas, the urban parks of which you speak are all paved and landscaped to where there is no decent wooded area in the park, and thus they cannot support most (any?) larger caches than micros. Can a micro be done well there? Possibly. Do people try? Certainly. Sometimes they succeed, other times they fail. This is a fact of life.

 

Any cache has the potential of being lame. Difficulty and terrain have no impact on the "lameness" quality of a cache. For some people, a 3/3 cache would be "lame" whereas for others, that cache would be awesome. As a point of concept, a 3/3 cache where one has to solve a pointless code and then go find an ammo box that has been hidden by putting it under a fallen log in a forest with a half mile hike to get it through ugly terrain could be considered "lame". Been there, done that, wash, rinse, repeat.

 

It is not necessary to place caches in "big box" parking lots to make them urban micros, !lame, or accessible. As a matter of fact, I have an urban micro which is definitely NOT in a "big box" parking lot, and every single person who has found it has said that the cache was great. I haven't had a single person say that the cache was lame or anything like that. It is accessible to most, although someone in a wheelchair would probably need someone more mobile to retrieve it for them.

 

And finally, nice spots most certainly do exist in urban settings. Unfortunately, all too often they are few and far between. This, of course, is colored by MY definition of the term "Nice", and my assumptions about the areas you believe are "nice".

 

Just to make sure that it does not appear that I am picking on you, I too would agree that placing a micro in a film can under at least one light post housing in every walmart parking lot is a very lame plan. That is silly, and is only useful, IMHO, to those looking for ways to pad their stats. HOWEVER, for those who happen to be passing by the area, such caches might well be a great thing. I would like to see more of the "interesting" urban micros, myself. As such, I am starting my own series. If you come through Atlanta, see if you can find any of my Gecko series. I am trying, with every one of these, to find some unusual and/or interesting way to hide the caches. Sure, the areas they take you to might not be a perfect area, but the cache is interesting. I'm trying to do something to improve the quality, as I see it, of the caches in my area. Some would agree with me, others might not. Either way, people seem to be enjoying my latest hides. Perhaps this is the way to go?

 

Yall, rather than deciding to hold a flamewar about this, perhaps we can find a way to work together to place quality caches for everyone. Some people love the urban micro. Others love the ammo can hide. Let's see what we can do to prove that we can all raise the standards on the urban micro. Thoughts?

 

*puts on his asbestos suit*

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Yeah you missed everything.

 

Ditto!

 

As far as I can tell you missed the point of every responder here, CR, and continue to aggressively hack away at your same old line, even to the point of making up stuff that was not said.

 

I do value your opinion, CR; one of the major functions of a forum is to air all sides of an issue and allow any interested party to post an opinion, but please, remember that he who screams loudest and longest does not win the argument.

 

Repitition does not create fact.

 

I only log about half my finds, but a look at my logs will show that I do ALL kinds of caches, and enjoy every one! I celebrate and thank ALL hiders!

 

I am 51, 290 lbs, have an irreparable broken neck, lost a leg, and geocache on crutches. Sometimes a 3 mile hike to what we in the South call a mountain-top is appealing - I do those alone so that I don't hold folks up.

 

Sometimes a few hours spent exploring traditionals in parks is appealing, I like to do those with caching buddies.

 

In Birmingham we may have 20 light-pole micros - the vast majority of the other micros will be a camo'd nitroglycerin tube or Altoids container well hidden - they may be in or around a parking lot, but you aren't gonna just walk up and grab them!

 

Occasionally I am up for a cache-run, and have spent 36 hours with a group finding 269 caches...mostly easy micros.

 

Your assertion that easy micros will "ruin" the game is just not correct. Every cache has a place and an audience.

 

Ed

[+Clan X-Man]

Entirely YOUR OPINION

Second example of being the Mistriss of the Obvious.

 

No, I'm not wanting anything banned. My intent is point out junk caches are not good for the sport on so many different levels. Be it public preception, newbie indoctrination, or saturation to the point of tightening guidelines just like what happened with virts, cordword caches and more. In essence, I asking for restraint before the hammer drops.

 

But, like I said above, I'm just about fed up. It seems as though some folks can't enjoy themselves if the cache is in a nice park or there is something interesting you've brought to.

I agree with most of this, but I happen to like a nice multi or series and the ones I've done are not taking you to interesting places. Sometimes it's about the cache. Again not disagreeing woth you entirely, there is a stopping point to crap caches.

 

AND THERE ARE CACHES THAT SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN PLACED!!!!

 

Some of the argument was that folks that aren't capable of finding the harder caches or nature caches in the woods whatever would really appreciate an easy find. Great! But I bet you more than one restricted (physically) cacher has gone to some of these cachesand thought what a piece of crap! It's the thought that counts. Everyone should put a lot of thought into there caches no matter what type they are.

[+sbell111]

I actually disagree with your second point...

 

I disagree. I think people tend to hide the kind of caches they find...

Well, I disagree with your disagreeing. Just kidding.

 

I get your point and I agree with it to some extent. I don't think that what a person finds is a primary indicator of what types of caches he will hide, however. For instance, When I hid my first cache, Great Caesar's Ghost Cipher, I had found about 25 caches. This was every cache on my 'nearest' list. None of those that I found were like Caesar.

 

I just feel that the growth of easy micros doesn't affect more traditional caches. I think that people see that the growth rate of these easy micros is much greater than that of traditionals and think that it is the ringing of the death nell for trads and, therefore, the hobby.

 

I don't believe that this growth in micros affects my enjoyment of traditional hides or the future of the hobby.

[CoyoteRed]

Naa, Just a minority.

Umm, that minority would be everyone here who likes the junk caches I'm cautioning against. That's means you, too.

 

Quite frankly, it wouldn't affect my hides in the least.

 

If anyone takes that as a challenge to start looking at our hides, go for it. Every single one incorporates something beyond signing the logbook. Are they spectacular? Not by any means, but at least we put an effort into making each and every one interesting in some way.

[+Clan X-Man]

 

I am 51, 290 lbs, have an irreparable broken neck, lost a leg, and geocache on crutches. Sometimes a 3 mile hike to what we in the South call a mountain-top is appealing - I do those alone so that I don't hold folks up.

 

Ah! You are exactly the guy to ask. Have you ever come upon one of these and thought "What a piece of crap!"

Be honest!

 

And by the way,

 

HOLY CRAP!

 

Folks this man is an extreme cacher!

 

Good on you.

[+Kit Fox]

Here is my geocaching motto. "Lead by example, hide good caches in nice locations."

 

I'm on mission now to only hide small to large sized caches, in neat or scenic locations. So far, the positive feedback I have received, makes my effort worthwhile.

 

I'm not against all 1/1 lamposts, but they are overdone. I also have a strong disliking for caches hidden in neighborhoods, in full view everyone's windows.

 

I found a cache yesterday that was hidden in a thornbush, ten feet from a restaurant. I don't understand the logic of caches like that.

[+fishingfools]

I like it kit, an intelligent response that shouldn't raise anyones ire. Sure you are in the right thread?

 

I like the lead by example idea. We have alot of micros in Raleigh, but most are above ave, non wally world type. I think we try to keep the quality of the hides up, and this leads other to think likewise.

[+jeff35080]

Folks this man is an extreme cacher!

 

Yes, he is Geocaching with TAR is always a fun adventure

[WH]

Renegade Knight said it all in another thread.

 

It's really nobodys business what kind of caches I place. It's nobody's business what kind of caches I seek.

 

There is no universal definition of lame. There is no way to resolve the debate. All b******g is nothing more than ranting into the wind. Everyone can and should place caches they want to place and learn as they go, and everyone can and should seek caches they enjoy and learn as they go.

 

If you are not having fun, you are doing it wrong and if you keep on doing that, you are probably too stupid to play this game. Tough Nuts.

Edited February 23, 2005 by WH

[+blazerfan]

All I have to say is that if someone insults a cache they should write it in plain english rather than some odd French abbreviation. I mean what's the point of an insult if the person you're insulting doesn't understand? Seems like a pretty wussy way to say how you feel... I'd much rather see something like the following

 

"I did not much enjoy this cache. This type of hide has been done so often that it is no longer enjoyable to me. I however am too lazy to search for caches that I might enjoy more so I will continue to complain until no one listens to me."

[CoyoteRed]

Your assertion that easy micros will "ruin" the game is just not correct.

I'm done.

 

This illustrates I'm incapable of getting my point across. I simply don't have the skills or the intellect to express myself in a manner for anyone to understand. (Not picking you, TAR. I just see a repeating elements.)

 

Here is my last attempt and I will say no more on the subject. Yes, the following is my opinion--I would have figured it obvious, but I guess I must state it.

 

I am not trying to ban anything. (Well, I wouldn't mind vacation caches into areas with established cacher population going away, but that's another matter altogether.)

 

Ease has nothing to do with the worth of a cache.

 

Size has nothing to do with the worth of a cache.

 

Hide type has nothing to do with the worth of a cache. (Hide technique is different.)

 

"Worth," primarily, comes from either the journey or the location in which the cache is placed. Many others foibles can be overcome with a good journey or location. These elements, pretty much, trumps all others.

 

That's not to say a few caches devoid of an interesting journey or location is bad. What I see happening, though, is the not just the proliferation of what I call junk caches, but the evangelizing of them--even using vacation caches to spread them into areas that don't want them. (My point about vacation caches above.)

 

I find it ironic that we still see the "My Virtual wasn't Approved" threads and the virts look a lot more interesting than any of what I call junk caches we've found. Arguments against virtuals include finding a box with trades, a "cache." I submit, junk caches lack any journey or locational interest. Most are little more than placed virts without the interesting location and you don't have to email the owner some sort of verification.

 

I've been told by a fan of junk caches that this is the direction the hobby is going and the "old way" of placing caches is going by the wayside. It is my opinion this is the wrong direction and is not healthy for the future of the hobby we hold dear. I find it sad in the extreme that so few are willing to stand up and say enough is enough.

[+sbell111]

meh.

[+wimseyguy]

Thank you so much for volunteering to be the cache police for all of us.

No problem.

 

I think I've made my case. If you all fail to understand, it's not my problem.

 

Here's what I understand from this thread:

• 
   
  
• In order for a cache to be fun, it's got to be lame. "Why are you trying to ruin everyone's fun?" is a quote I hear a lot.
   
  
• Placing a cache in a nice urban park or nice setting ruins the hunt for a lot of people. (Which is the core of what folks are saying, basically.)
   
  
• Anything above a 1/1 can't be lame.
   
  
• The only place to put caches in an urban setting are "big box" parking lots.
   
  
• The only place one can enjoy a cache in an urban setting is a "big box" parking lot.
   
  
• Nice spots don't exist in urban settings.
   
  
• The only place to put a 1/1 cache, a park-n-grab, and/or accessible cache is in a "big box" parking lot.
   
  
• A nice urban setting with a view can't have a park-n-grab, 1/1, accessible cache.
   
  

Did miss anything? I'm sure I did as I can't seem to get my mind around the concept of junk caches being okay--that finding a nice urban setting is not as good as a Wal-mart parking lot.

You have made your case, over and over and over. Funny thing is that there aren't a lot of other voices in these forums (which we still aren't sure represent the general caching population, but I digress, that's an issue for another thread ) who are consistantly agreeing with your viewpoint. You have made your case, frequently and consistantly; sometimes more eloquantly than others. I for one do understand, but do not agree.

 

Here's what I understand from this thread, and many others that digress into the same debate:

• Finding a cache is fun, no matter what type or where it is hidden for some cachers. As TAR pointed out there are ways of having fun even with a string of park n grabs. I have experienced this firsthand.
  
• Placing a cache in a nice urban park or setting is also fun, provided it isn't hidden in the playground equipment. This is often preferrable to the parking lot, but not absolutly necessary. Variety is OK.
  
• Lame can be found in most D/T ratings, although is probably pretty rare in the higher numbers. A cache can have a Terrain rating of 3+ just for taking you on a long hilly woodland hike of over an hour. If at the end of the hike, you can spot the poorly hidden cache from 100' away under an unnatural pile of parallel sticks or rocks, isn't that a lame hide? Even if the stuff in the container is great?
  
• There is a variety of places to put an urban hide. Cachers enjoy this variety, and especially enjoy not being told where they can and cannot place their hides.
  
• Nice spots exist everywhere, they are just harder to find in some places. Nice is in the eye of the beholder.
  
• A nice urban spot could have a 1/1 cache hidden in it, but may also lends itself to a greater variety of hiding options. I visited one in CR's home state late last year that took me to a nice urban park, but never led me down the trails, it was a pill bottle hidden in the rocks behind the trail sign. It wasn't wheelchair accessable, so it wasn't a 1/1.
  

What you have missed is that it seems a number of cachers/forum participants are not agreeing with your all or nothing position and signing on to the crusade. Some cachers, myself included are OK with finding a few so called junk caches from time to time. I'd prefer the nice park, and even sometimes the long hike; but if there is a Wally World in my path, I am perfectly happy finding it quickly and moving on to the next adventure.

[+Cool Librarian]

Perhaps the cache was placed so you could take your lazy behinds to the cache with a trash bag to help clean up the " encampment"

 

Um, excuse me, do I know you?

Perhaps it was - if that was the intent, the cache page should have reflected that.

 

I have done more than my share of CITO. If a cache page mentions that CITO is needed, I try to pick up a bag. If I go to a site, find it trashy, and have a bag handy, I do some CITO. I have organized clean-up efforts in my community (noy caching related, so not CITO)..... Not that I should need to defend myself to someone who has no idea who I am but chooses to call me lazy in a public forum....

[+JohnnyVegas]

A little imagination goes a long way and a sticking a magnetic key holder in the base of a lamp post in every Wal-mart parking lot for 50 miles takes no imagination.

 

It is also a waste of a magnetic key holder were a 35MM film can would have worked just as well.

 

What if someone were to put a lamp post in the woods and then place a micro in the base, now that might be interesting to find