Traditional, Multi/offset Or Mystery/puzzle?

[+º]

In the German forum the always reappearing discussion about the cache-types came up once again. But this time Schnüffelstück made an suggestion about how to choose between the three mainly used types and this suggestion is really easy to use:

 

Traditional => Koordinaten ins GPS und los

Multi => Beschreibung ausgedruckt und los

Mystery => Zuhause rätseln, irgendwelche Aufgaben lösen, andere Caches zuvor finden, etc.

 

means:

Traditional => punch the coords into the GPSr and off you go

Multi => Take the descrption and off you go

Mystery => puzzle over it at home, solve a task before, first find another cache, etc.

 

Some German cachers agreed with it but what do you think? Good suggestion or not? I think it's good

[+Markwell]

I had some shorthand that I did a while ago.

 

Traditional Cache: Here's the coordinates. Go find a container.

Multi-Cache: Here's the coordinates of a starting spot that will tell you how to get to the container

Virtual Cache: Here's the coordinates for something very cool

Letterbox Hybrid: Here's the coordinates for a container that has a stamp pad (there MAY be instructions, too)

Event Cache: Here's the coordinates where a bunch of us are getting togther to brag and trade bugs

Webcam Cache: Here's the coordinates for an internet camera - take a picture

Mystery or puzzle caches: Here's a cache page. Better read the whole thing before going out.

Locationless (Reverse) Cache: Here's the criteria. Tell me the coordinates of something nearby that matches the criteria and post a photograph.

[CoyoteRed]

I personally wish they hadn't combined "mystery" and "puzzle," but that's the way things go around here.

 

Your suggestion goes a little counter to what some people figure what a multi is. It seems as though if you've go to do any thinking they want to stuff it into "puzzle" even if it's simply fill in the blanks at each stage.

 

I like your idea, but I've found you can't filter on types, or hardly any data type, and get a result even close to accurate.

[cezanne]

Some German cachers agreed with it but what do you think? Good suggestion or not? I think it's good 

As you can already see from Markwell's response and also from other postings in the English speaking part of the forum, it is not a universally good concept. There are regions where caches where the cache description is needed and/or where small tasks are to be solved on the way, are not regarded as multi caches, but as mystery/puzzle ones.

 

To illustrate my point, have a look for example at this cache

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...48-2ea6aba1ef79

For me this is a very nice multi cache (not one of the boring ones), but as finding the answer at some stages requires some imagination and the intermediary stages have no coordinates, many cachers will regard this as a puzzle/mystery cache. I do not share that opinion. (Moreover, it would lead to about 90% mystery/puzzle caches in some regions.)

 

The concept you suggest should work reasonably well in Germany, but it is not well suited for example to the US where the proportion of trad., multi and mystery is a completely different one, and where cachers have a different attitude towards caching.

 

Cezanne

Edited February 15, 2005 by cezanne

[+º]

..., but it is not well suited for example to the US where the proportion of trad., multi and mystery is a completely different one, and where cachers have a different attitude towards caching.

That's what I want to hear from the US-cachers ... if they think so but Markwells shorthand tells me something different than you're. So I guess you can't speak for all the cachers in the States.

 

@Markwell:

Wenn Deine Schuhe nass sind, dann musst Du zerknülltes Zeitungspapier reinstopfen

[+briansnat]

Letterbox Hybrid: Here's the coordinates for a container that has a stamp pad (there MAY be instructions, too)

I don't know about this one. A stamp pad does not make a cache a letterbox hybrid. The fact that it is also a letterbox does.

 

It probably should read "here's the coordinates for a geocache that is also a letterbox".

Edited February 15, 2005 by briansnat

[cezanne]

That's what I want to hear from the US-cachers ... if they think so but Markwells shorthand tells me something different than you're. So I guess you can't speak for all the cachers in the States.

Of course I cannot, noone can do this. What I wanted to point out is simply that there will never be a general concensus about the classification of caches.

Note that Markwell is not mentioning the cache description in his definition of a multi cache.

 

As the separation of multi and mystery/puzzle caches is regarded, I had a discussion with Jeremy in this forum a while ago where it turned out that his notion of multi and mystery differs considerably from mine and from what seems to be yours. For example, Jeremy stated there that he regards a cave cache where the coordinates of the entrance are given and where the cache description (and not a text to be found inside a micro which can be found at the starting coordinates) explains how to reach the cache inside the cave as mystery/puzzle cache and not as multi cache. Several US cachers agreed with Jeremy.

 

Cezanne

Edited February 15, 2005 by cezanne

[Schnüffelstück]

Traditional Cache: Here's the coordinates. Go find a container.

Multi-Cache: Here's the coordinates of a starting spot that will tell you how to get to the container

Virtual Cache: Here's the coordinates for something very cool

Letterbox Hybrid: Here's the coordinates for a container that has a stamp pad (there MAY be instructions, too)

Event Cache: Here's the coordinates where a bunch of us are getting togther to brag and trade bugs

Webcam Cache: Here's the coordinates for an internet camera - take a picture

Mystery or puzzle caches: Here's a cache page. Better read the whole thing before going out.

Locationless (Reverse) Cache: Here's the criteria. Tell me the coordinates of something nearby that matches the criteria and post a photograph.

Keep It Short and Simple - you did it. Thanks.

[+Isonzo Karst]

For me, the narrowest definition of a multi is a cache for which all I need is the first stage coordinates. Just as the narrowest definition of a traditional is coordinates=cache. If I MUST have information on the cache page - it may fit better in the ? category. Having said that, I own two caches that I have classified as multis which require information from the cache page to find the second stage. There's no brain drain on these, but if all you've got is first stage coords, you're out of luck. Hmm.

 

Multi or Mystery?

 

Puzzle or Off-Set/Multi?

[+Markwell]

I'll stand by my short definitions of Traditional, Virtual, Event and Locationless.

 

I'll defer to Brian's definition of a letterbox. However, I'm not sure that everyone agrees with the definition that it's definitely a letterbox. Does that mean that you'll get starting coordinates and have to go by Letterboxing clues to find the cache? Or is it just that it's listed on Letterboxing.org? Or is it just that there's a stamp inside? I think there's no clear definition on this either.

 

As far as Multi-, Mystery/Puzzle - in any case I think it just means "read the cache page for more details."

[cezanne]

I'll stand by my short definitions of Traditional, Virtual, Event and Locationless.

...............

As far as Multi-, Mystery/Puzzle - in any case I think it just means "read the cache page for more details."

Ok, let's get concrete. I'd appreciate if you could let me know whether caches like this one

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...48-2ea6aba1ef79

 

(here I agree with multi although you get no hints whatsoever at the starting coordinates)

 

or this one

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...91-a5d843446c02

 

(here I would rather classify it as mystery given the general practice)

 

or that one

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...65-3605a58b7069

 

(I again agree with multi though one though some of the tasks are formulated in the form of riddles)

 

are multi caches for you or mystery ones.

 

Cezanne

Edited February 15, 2005 by cezanne

[+º]

As far as Multi-, Mystery/Puzzle - in any case I think it just means "read the cache page for more details."

The discussion in the German forum is always about the question where's the difference. What Do you think?

 

btw. I'd say a letterbox-hybrid is somehow a cache which is designed to be found without a GPSr and has a stamp in it. The stamp seems to be essential for letterboxes.

 

@cezanne:

What about just letting our fellow geocachers from countries outside continental Europe post their oppinion? I don't think it's the best idea to post links to long descriptions which barely anybody reads.

[cezanne]

@cezanne:

What about just letting our fellow geocachers from countries outside continental Europe post their oppinion? I don't think it's the best idea to post links to long descriptions which barely anybody reads.

Like you I welcome to receive as many opinions as possible, but I would not like to obtain philosophical statements or unclear and incomplete classifications, but would rather like to know how someone who posts an unclear classification is applying his own classification.

 

It is not my fault if people do not read the descriptions I used as examples.

Concrete cases can only be discussed by providing existing examples. It does not make much sense to discuss about hypothetical cases - in theory many problems that arise in practice are neglected just to arrive at a simple and neat looking concept - if that concept turns out to fail in practice, it needs to be revised, however.

 

Cezanne

Edited February 15, 2005 by cezanne

[+Isonzo Karst]

Cezanne, if I owned any cache similar to these three I would classify it as a puzzle cache. Although I think I'm seeing your point that some are doable on site without any further research, decryption, advance mathematics etc. - just go there, follow the coordinates and instructions, and get to a final point.

 

I think caching from a PDA has changed my perspective on cache types. It's hard to read and work on a cache like any of these on the small screen. Perhaps that shouldn't be an issue, but it has changed the way I write up a cache. I'd want a paper print of any of the three. I think the ? designation indicates you ought to read the cache description before setting off after the cache. Analagous to the way a 5 terrain rating here in Florida mostly indicates a cache that requires a boat, scuba or snorkel - there really isn't any 5 terrain.

 

I've seen this expression before on English translations of German cache pages

"Let the crossfoot of this number be A."

I'm afraid "crossfoot" doesn't convey any meaning to me? Any suggestions, or alternate translation?

Edited February 15, 2005 by Isonzo Karst

[cezanne]

Cezanne, if I owned any cache similar to these three I would classify it as a puzzle cache.

 

I guess that the majority of cachers from the US will share your opinion.

But let's see who else will contribute to the thread.

 

I'd want a paper print of any of the three.

 

Me too, but I always work with paper. The majority of my own caches is almost undoable without a printout (but most are classified as ? caches anyway, but for other reasons).

 

I think the ? designation indicates you ought to read the cache description before setting off after the cache. 

 

To read it or just print it and take it with you? For me there are many multi caches where I do not need to read the description in advance, but for which of course I need to have the print out with me. We hardly have any multi caches where all intermediary stages present the coordinates of the next stage by directly listing them.

 

I've seen this expression before on English translations of German cache pages

                      "Let the crossfoot of this number be A."   

I'm afraid "crossfoot" doesn't convey any meaning to me? Any suggestions, or alternate translation?

 

They should have used "sum of digits" instead, but for some reason they prefer crossfoot - they also use often a strange way to calculate the coordinates of the next stage. Looks ugly to a mathematician. I prefer "Ziffernsumme" (which means sum of digits) in German to "Quersumme". Crossfoot seems to come from the "Quersumme" term, but in any case I do not like that term.

 

Cezanne

[cezanne]

Deleted due to double posting. System had sent error message.

Edited February 15, 2005 by cezanne

[+nfa]

Hi,

 

I want to do something like this or this

 

and am struggling with the line between puzzle and multi...there is stuff to figure out, but you are lead from one set of published coords to another and will end up with an "answer"

 

The cache I have in mind would end up with a correct solution of the murder yielding a set of coords that would take the geocacher to an ammo-can with a log and trade items.

 

I would love input about the cache-type, and ideas on how to do this type of thing well...

 

Thanks,

 

nfa-jamie

[+Isonzo Karst]

I think Markwell's definition of a multi cache

 

Multi-Cache: Here's the coordinates of a starting spot that will tell you how to get to the container

 

is becoming the norm in the US, in part because many seasoned ( that means caching for a Whole Year) cachers here cache from a PDA, having downloaded hundreds of available caches, and then perhaps done some filtering before loading them into their handheld. If I drive to one of the urban areas to cache, I will have many hundreds of caches in the the PDA. I have NOT read or looked at the cache page. If my "nearest cache" as I'm driving shows up as a ?. I'll probably pull over and read the page. If it sounds interesting I may use a notebook to recreate the questions & answers needed so I don't get eyestrain frustration on site. There's certainly NOT universal agreement on this. My own two caches that I referenced earlier in this thread are puzzle caches by that criterion, but I'm leaving them as multis, as they are so simple.

 

From the Groundspeak cache listing agreement:Offset Caches

 

Offset caches are a variation on multi-caches. They are listed as a multi-cache when selecting a cache type. They are not found by simply going to some coordinates and finding a cache there. With the offset cache the published coordinates could be of an existing historical monument, plaque, or even a benchmark that you would like to have your cache hunter visit. At this spot, the hunter looks for numbers or information already appearing on the marker or on some part of the marker or site (geocachers NEVER deface public or private property). The geocacher is then able to manipulate these numbers using instructions posted on the cache page to continue the hunt.

 

We hardly have any multi caches where all intermediary stages present the coordinates of the next stage by directly listing them.

The huge majority of multis here in Florida do provide stage coordinates in a micro container. They often involve longish walks in natural areas. If you're knee deep in water, you may not appreciate working some puzzle for the next stage coordinates. I see the puzzle type multi in urban park environments.

 

Thank you for the explanation of "crossfoot" sum of digits

Edited February 16, 2005 by Isonzo Karst

[+Team Simber]

What is an Earth Cache? It is listed on the site but has no description.

[+fly46]

Letterbox Hybrid: Here's the coordinates for a container that has a stamp pad (there MAY be instructions, too)

I don't know about this one. A stamp pad does not make a cache a letterbox hybrid. The fact that it is also a letterbox does.

 

It probably should read "here's the coordinates for a geocache that is also a letterbox".

Well, the part that makes a letterbox a letterbox is the stamp and something to stamp with - ie, ink pad or crayola marker.

 

So that should read "stamp and stamp pad"

 

But other than that, he's right on.

[+Isonzo Karst]

To find out "what is an earthcache" go to earthcache.org and to see an earthcache listing try Digging Phosphate in Bone Valley Earthcache

 

I thought letterboxers carried their own ink pads, as pads in caches (letterboxes) tend to dry out? I've never see/found one, but I read that somewhere.