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Although there is an existing Benchmark forum for the Geocaching.com site, many Benchmarkers have gone the extra mile to help the NGS in their recovery efforts of monuments around the United States. Where the benchmarking site is just for fun, offical monument recovery has more distinct requirements for a "find." For this reason we have established a secondary forum.

 

Here are some general (but not all-inclusive) topics you will see in this forum:

 

Questions for the NGS regarding:

 

Reporting momument recoveries to the NGS site

Accessing NGS data sheets.

Ideas for the NGS outreach program

Archived datasheets

Highly technical surveying questions

The NGS database (including operating status)

...or any other questions that pertain to NGS.

 

I hope this becomes a very helpful location for your monument recovery efforts!

 

- Jeremy

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One of the hopes that was a part of the creation of this forum, was that the people trying to recover Survey Markers for NGS, as well as those wanting to have the more serious technical discussions about the Surveying field and monument recovery tips, tricks and difficulties, could have those discussions here.

 

Let's not lose this opportunity to use this forum space to it's highest potential. Please consider bringing the difficult finds, and tough questions here, even if all you intend to do is play the game, and try to keep the lighter subject matter in the benchmark hunting forum. It would be the highest and best use of this forum.

 

Let's not under use this Forum!

 

Thanks!

 

Rob

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one day on the way home from school i saw a sign that said survey marker now being a geocacher i had heard about these and have done a few. so i went out to see wut was there. i got there and couldnt find it but remembered that it usually is very close to the post so i started digging and finaly found it about 3 inches under the grass so i wrote the numbers on a piece of paper and when i got home i lokked it up and there r no bench marks near here i even typed in the number to see wut i got but it was nothing so wut i want to ask is wut should i do? the numbers are 9108 and it was located between lexington ave and hwy 49 along the boarder of circle pines and shorview minnesota on the north side of county road J.

 

please send replies to jlbabturner@usfamily.net

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Curious: When the term RECOVERY is used in benchmark finding, does it literally mean RECOVERING and removing or just finding it and noting it's find?. Some I searched for had something about " this disk recovered" and then it went on say "The North Carolina/South Carolina HARNS have been completed but, due to contractual restrictions, coordinates for these stations will NOT be published in the near future. In the interim, the published coordinates in North and South Carolina will not be consistent with the Continuously Operating Reference Stations (CORS). ......" does this mean we will not longer be able to hunt for these as they are TAKING DOWN the coords from the general public???

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Curious: When the term RECOVERY is used in benchmark finding, does it literally mean RECOVERING and removing or just finding it and noting it's find?. Some I searched for had something about " this disk recovered" and then it went on say "The North Carolina/South Carolina HARNS have been completed but, due to contractual restrictions, coordinates for these stations will NOT be published in the near future. In the interim, the published coordinates in North and South Carolina will not be consistent with the Continuously Operating Reference Stations (CORS). ......" does this mean we will not longer be able to hunt for these as they are TAKING DOWN the coords from the general public???

Hi TopoTraveler

 

1) "Recovery" means visiting the site and validating the existence and condition of the marker. It does NOT imply removing the marker which should NEVER be done.

 

2) The coordinates for the Carolinas are still published on the data sheets and on Geocaching.com. The issue is one of using a consistent base network between the two states and this is not yet done. The only thing one of us might notice is for two marks on either side of the border which have published distance and azimuth to each other may not be consistent. You would be highly unlikely to ever be able to detect this with a hand held GPS.

 

Perhaps one of the NGS folks like DaveD or GEL or one of the professional surveyors could chime in and explain the intricacies of CORS and HARNS and how separate states are linked together in the national network.

Edited by Papa-Bear-NYC
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Here is a paragraph on "Mark Recovery" from one of NGS' contracting documents describing the requirements for NGS surveyors or contractors working for NGS:

 

H. MARK RECOVERY DEFINITION - "The “recovery” of a control station includes a physical visit to the station to determine its usability by checking its identity, ascertaining its unmoved position, and determining its condition, stability, visibility, etc. and to prepare a digital updated description or recovery note in NGS format. To ascertain its identity, check the mark type (concrete post, disk in drill hole, rod, etc.), disk type (see Attachment N), and stamping against the NGS data sheet. To ensure its position, measure the distances from the reference marks and/or the distances from the reference points and Witness Post. Also, the angle between the reference marks could be checked." Also check the survey point's name and date against the datasheet and also the type of disk, e.g. Triangulation Station, Azimuth Mark, Reference Mark, etc.

 

Note, Attachment N contains drawings showing many different styles of U.S. Coast & Geodetic Survey, National Ocean Service, and National Geodetic Survey disks, see: http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/ContractingOpportu...vey_SOW_V7A.pdf, page 99 - 102.

 

HARNS (High Accuracy Reference Networks) were done on a state by state basis. A few states wanted to avoid multiple small changes in coordinates and opted to retain coordinates from an earlier adjustment. These changes are small as Papa Bear stated. In 2007, NGS performed a readjustment of all points in the NGS database (across the U.S.) that had been surveyed with GPS (about 70,000). These coordinates are now available and should eliminate differences at state boundaries. Note, the accuracies for the coordinates in this adjustment are still being computed.

 

CORS (Continuously Operating Reference Stations) are high grade GPS receivers that run 24/7, see: http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/CORS/. There are now almost 1200 CORS across the country, and some in foreign countries. The data from these points are checked daily, and the data is available on-line to users for computing positions, see OPUS at: http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/OPUS/. These points are known very accurately (computations from long-term data collection) and most of these points were held fixed in the 2007 adjustment mentioned above.

 

GeorgeL

NGS

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One of the hopes that was a part of the creation of this forum, was that the people trying to recover Survey Markers for NGS, as well as those wanting to have the more serious technical discussions about the Surveying field and monument recovery tips, tricks and difficulties, could have those discussions here.

 

Let's not lose this opportunity to use this forum space to it's highest potential. Please consider bringing the difficult finds, and tough questions here, even if all you intend to do is play the game, and try to keep the lighter subject matter in the benchmark hunting forum. It would be the highest and best use of this forum.

 

Let's not under use this Forum!

 

Thanks!

 

Rob

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One of the hopes that was a part of the creation of this forum, was that the people trying to recover Survey Markers for NGS, as well as those wanting to have the more serious technical discussions about the Surveying field and monument recovery tips, tricks and difficulties, could have those discussions here.

 

Let's not lose this opportunity to use this forum space to it's highest potential. Please consider bringing the difficult finds, and tough questions here, even if all you intend to do is play the game, and try to keep the lighter subject matter in the benchmark hunting forum. It would be the highest and best use of this forum.

 

Let's not under use this Forum!

 

Thanks!

 

Rob

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I too have found this site very helpful in the finding of USGS monuments.

Recently my company has been locating/ observing Geodetic monuments in and around

Camden, Gloucester, and Burlington counties( Southern NJ ) with GPS.

Our goal is to use this information to calibrate future sites.

I knew of a few but, through this site I've found more!

I really love to find the really old ones!!

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I too have found this site very helpful in the finding of USGS monuments.

Recently my company has been locating/ observing Geodetic monuments in and around

Camden, Gloucester, and Burlington counties( Southern NJ ) with GPS.

Our goal is to use this information to calibrate future sites.

I knew of a few but, through this site I've found more!

I really love to find the really old ones!!

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one day on the way home from school i saw a sign that said survey marker now being a geocacher i had heard about these and have done a few. so i went out to see wut was there. i got there and couldnt find it but remembered that it usually is very close to the post so i started digging and finaly found it about 3 inches under the grass so i wrote the numbers on a piece of paper and when i got home i lokked it up and there r no bench marks near here i even typed in the number to see wut i got but it was nothing so wut i want to ask is wut should i do? the numbers are 9108 and it was located between lexington ave and hwy 49 along the boarder of circle pines and shorview minnesota on the north side of county road J.

 

please send replies to removed by moderator

Thanks for sharing.....

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