Some Geocachers Don't Belong Here.

February 8, 2005

I've read stories about how geocaching invites people to explore places they really shouldn't be without experience

About people who go out for long hikesgeocaching without supplies or proper attire to sustain them should bad weather pop up.

One I remember was about a gent who went up into the mountains, got lost and called

911 demanding that a helicopter come rescue him because he was late for a meeting.

I guess he just went for a quick cache and got lost. LOL !!!

Anyone have any good stories about geaocachers that have gotten themselves into trouble?

Edited February 8, 2005 by Spiritwild

February 8, 2005

I guess he just went for a quick cache and got lost. LOL !!!

Umm, how dumb does someone have to be to get lost with a GPS? Ever heard of "trackback"?

Having gotten that off my chest I have to agree with you on your comment. There are a couple caches near me that involve quite a hike and would involve extra clothing and taking water is a must. I just hope the cachers to it can map it first and realize what is involved.

Edited February 8, 2005 by mrking

1.4k · February 8, 2005

Ever heard of dead batteries or dead GPS unit?

February 8, 2005

Point taken and smartass comment retracked.

But, extra batteries are a must! Broken GPS, well, not much you can do about that.

February 8, 2005

Point taken and smartass comment retracked.

But, extra batteries are a must! Broken GPS, well, not much you can do about that.

My opinion is that if one can't navigate out of an area without a gps, one shouldn't navigate in with one.

Seeking a cache in a city park is one thing, hiking 10 miles in hot, arid or sub freezing temps with no means to find the way out without the gps is an unnecessary risk. Topo maps from the USGS are cheap to free depending on what you want, a good compass is much less than a GPSr and basic map/orientation training is free on the web.

This reminds me of my days in the Marines when we were learning navigational skills in the desert. We were practicing terrain association with a map and nothing else, no compass or GPSr. The phrase we liked was "We didn't get lost, we were just temporarily disoriented.". Ah, the good ol' days.

1.8k · February 8, 2005

Broken GPS, well, not much you can do about that.

Hoo boy. Been there, done that. Caching or not, I now always carry a spare GPS if I am not completely certain I can find my way back to civilization.

2.2k · February 8, 2005

if it wasn't for the fact that mountain rescue etc end up risking their own lives i'd just say leave them to darwin.....survival of the fittest. anyone dumb enough to get themselves into that much trouble deserves everything that happens to them.

let the mountain rescue sue the idiots for the full cost of rescue if negligence can be proved....people well prepared but who suffer accidents not negligent so no cost. idiots will have huge expensive rescue opration to refund.

5.8k · February 8, 2005

of course geocaching is like any other outdoor activity, and it's the responsibility of the individual to be prepared. The title of this post sounds like you're blaming the sport. There are a lot of people who do other things they're not prepared for, like driving, skating, shooting, etc. You can't in any way blame the activity.

5.8k · February 8, 2005

let the mountain rescue sue the idiots for the full cost of rescue if negligence can be proved....people well prepared but who suffer accidents not negligent so no cost. idiots will have huge expensive rescue opration to refund.

If someone hikes into the Grand Canyon, and is unable to hike out, they have to pay for the rescue, assuming there was not some type of special situatation

1.4k · February 8, 2005

As is the case in all outdoor activities, know your limits and be prepared. All you old scouts already knew that though.

5.3k · February 8, 2005

Ever heard of dead batteries or dead GPS unit?

I carry extra batteries and one or two extra GPSr (But I missplaced on of the extra GPSrs)

8.4k · February 8, 2005

I've read stories about how geocaching invites people to explore places they really shouldn't be without experience

About people who go out for long hikesgeocaching without supplies or proper attire to sustain them should bad weather pop up.

Pa-lease :huh: That is terribly PC.

I purposly over rate SOME of my caches to keep those idiots away.

Strangely though, in geocaching there is quite a bit of whining from people who refuse to take responsibility from their OWN actions. Look at the lame cache debate....

38.2k · February 8, 2005

've read stories about how geocaching invites people to explore places they really shouldn't be without experience

Lets not propigate this baloney and give anti-geocachers any more ammunition. People have been venturing out unprepared and where they don't belong long before geocaching and GPS came along.

Geocaching is less a contributing factor to this than the existence of hiking trails, trail maps, guide books and even adventure novels.

3.8k · February 8, 2005

've read stories about how geocaching invites people to explore places they really shouldn't be without experience

How do you get experience ? if you never go

February 8, 2005

I've read stories about how geocaching invites people to explore places they really shouldn't be without experience

About people who go out for long hikesgeocaching without supplies or proper attire to sustain them should bad weather pop up.

There is an award for that kind of action,its called the Darwin award... Nature will take careof the stupid ones

February 8, 2005

sorry i'm 17 but i even know how to use a topo map or any other map you put infront of me. I always carry one with me never knowing what my ditzy self would do to my GPS.

February 8, 2005

No one here mentioned to read the cache description first!

Seems like most are so confident they do not need to.

I can see how people can get hurt here.

Cache pages get edited often, new logs are added, so a quick glance a the page before you leave would be a plus. Not just counting on a PQ, that might have been downloaded a month prior.

Also, you will never get everyone to check out the forums now and then, or at all.

Just would hate it if someone got hurt bad because of caching.

This sport is growing very fast, each time a article is written, or shown, I'm sure the signup page gets busy.

That's how, and why I joined, and learned many others did the same.

I can't do the hard hikes, so I know my limitations, and I am lucky the land is flat around me, all I have to worry about is the mud. Still much preparation is needed for those.

6.5k · February 8, 2005

Oh, I thought this was a thread about people who shouldn't be posting in the forums. :huh:

My father still kids me about not coming home in time for supper in the summers when I was a kid. He once asked me if having my GPS with me had resolved that problem in adulthood. I replied that it seems to compound the problem, but at least I know which way is home.

6.4k · February 8, 2005

I've read stories about how geocaching invites people to explore places they really shouldn't be without experience

About people who go out for long hikesgeocaching without supplies or proper attire to sustain them should bad weather pop up.

So, I guess the solution in you eyes is to only "invite" people to explore Walmart parking lots?

Every single cache page has this link which says in part:

Geocaching, hiking, backpacking and other outdoor activities involve risk to both persons and property. There are many variables including, but not limited to, weather, fitness level, terrain features and outdoor experience, that must be considered prior to seeking or placing a Cache. Be prepared for your journey and be sure to check the current weather and conditions before heading outdoors. Always exercise common sense and caution.

Even if you dumbed down the game to just parking lot caches, the same people that go wilderness hiking with sneakers and a can of coke would be the same ones to get run over by a car in the parking lot. You can't legislate common sense (no matter what our government thinks!).

February 8, 2005

There is an award for that kind of action,its called the Darwin award... Nature will take careof the stupid ones

yeah, but you have to actually die to win that one.

we really need to thin the herd...

You can't legislate common sense

would be nice if we could. the lack of common sense manifests itself in all areas of our life. geocaching is just another activity to help some people demonstrate the point and that's why that little disclaimer is on all the cache pages. if they didn't do it geocaching, they'd do it somewhere else.

edit: agree with mopar's post

Edited February 8, 2005 by vree13

4.7k · February 8, 2005

Pa-lease That is terribly PC.

I purposly over rate SOME of my caches to keep those idiots away.

i'm alarmed at the use of "pc" to denote "any trendy thing to say with which i do not agree". the term "pc" used to have relevance in places where groups of people were trying to change the accepted language in order to help bring about civil change thereby allowing them to use their civil rights. using the old language made it more difficult to perpetuate change.

as a term i think it has far outlasted its usefulness and now has become a handy phrase for dismissing people's ideas.

pc has been used not just to denote people demanding civil rights (which was never politically expedient) but just now it's been used to denote protecting idiots from themselves which last time i checked was not a political issue but rather a part of a larger probelem where people demand freedoms AND protections, which are often at cross purposes.

if you want to use the freedom to go into backcountry, you assume the risks. when you take the freedom to do anything there are attenuated risks and you cannot expect others to protect you from yourself.

people all over the world are taking up more difficult activities without proper training or experience. this pheomenon is not caused by the hiding of an ammo can.

February 8, 2005

pc has been used not just to denote people demanding civil rights (which was never politically expedient) but just now it's been used to denote protecting idiots from themselves which last time i checked was not a political issue but rather a part of a larger probelem where people demand freedoms AND protections, which are often at cross purposes.

if you want to use the freedom to go into backcountry, you assume the risks. when you take the freedom to do anything there are attenuated risks and you cannot expect others to protect you from yourself.

Applause! Well Said!

February 8, 2005

The closest cache to my home involves about 5 hours of hiking. I don't mind the hike but there's areas with higher concentrations of caches that grab my attention. We are planning on doing a picnic to that cache this summer. I'm suprised the idiots will attempt to grab a cache that requires a lot of time. I expected them to be a fool like myself and hit those where there's numerous caches in an area.

February 8, 2005

I'm suprised the idiots will attempt to grab a cache that requires a lot of time. I expected them to be a fool like myself and hit those where there's numerous caches in an area.

only idiots if they go completely unprepared for an extensive hike and expect someone to come rescue them if/when they run into trouble due to their lack of preparedness (or because the cache took longer than expected and they are running late for a meeting and so require a helicopter to come rescue them).

flask, agreed. well said. while i agree with snoogans' assessment about responsibility, i think the term "pc" was misused.

5.7k · February 8, 2005

I've read stories about how geocaching invites people to explore places they really shouldn't be without experience

About people who go out for long hikesgeocaching without supplies or proper attire to sustain them should bad weather pop up.

One I remember was about a gent who went up into the mountains, got lost and called

911 demanding that a helicopter come rescue him because he was late for a meeting.

I guess he just went for a quick cache and got lost. LOL !!!

Anyone have any good stories about geaocachers that have gotten themselves into trouble?

WOW, that one was really halarious. No way that I can top the degree of humor contained in there. So I'll just admit dee-feet and not bother to even try. Every time that I try and imagine a 'gent' lost in the mountains I break out in uncontrollable laughter. If I had been the dispatcher at Search & Rescue that day I would first have asked the 'gent' if he had an American Express Gold Card on him and was he prepared for his balance to take a $5,000.00 hit. I just bet that that would have made him get 'unlost' pretty danged quick. I do suppose that there is an implied action if he doesn't have the Gold Card. What say we just let the poor 'gent' croak from exposure, dehydration and/or starvation which ever occurs first. That'll teach him a good lesson now won't it? Now just stop it you wascally wabbit. ;-) Good one.

Edited February 8, 2005 by Team cotati697

February 8, 2005

This reminds me of my days in the Marines when we were learning navigational skills in the desert. We were practicing terrain association with a map and nothing else, no compass or GPSr. The phrase we liked was "We didn't get lost, we were just temporarily disoriented.". Ah, the good ol' days.

Temporarily disoriented....yeah, I been there....usually near closing time.....hey, ever notice, near closing time, that "Hey, Brew Pub, you in?", sounds an awful lot like "Hey, Group Hug, you in?".......(yeah, the marines I was with didn't hear it that way either......)

1.1k · February 8, 2005

've read stories about how geocaching invites people to explore places they really shouldn't be without experience

Geocaching is less a contributing factor to this than the existence of hiking trails, trail maps, guide books and even adventure novels.

Now don't take this personal anyone but the problem with geocaching and it INVITING prople into the outdoors is it does it in such a way that the people dont think "Hey I am going for a 10 mile hike at 10,000 feet in the fall and it may snow etc....." No the folks just think O' there is a cache at thes coordinates and I want it. This becomes a problem because some, not all, geocachers do not know their limits and these are the one that get into trouble. Just like there are many people that take a hike in Yosemity to Half dome with only 500ml of water in the summer time. People need to know what they can and can't do.

It ultimatley falls on the cacher to be safe and be prepared. But warnings may help, or not, some people just never learn.

cheers

February 8, 2005

Now don't take this personal anyone but the problem with geocaching and it INVITING prople into the outdoors is it does it in such a way that the people dont think "Hey I am going for a 10 mile hike at 10,000 feet in the fall and it may snow etc....."

We all live in the world. We all step into that world. Geocaching isn't a problem anymore than hiking or skydiving or rocket car racing.

People need to be responsible for themselves.

Those who aren't have nobody to blame but themselves.

5.3k · February 8, 2005

Where's WH?? He's got a good story :rolleyes: :tired:

20.7k · February 8, 2005

What concerns me the most about this thread is that there are not more smilies all through it. Shame on us for enticing people to come outside into the big scary world. :tired:

What happened to the threads that spoke of how healthier we all were because the hobby got us out of our homes? :rolleyes:

February 8, 2005

One I remember was about a gent who went up into the mountains, got lost and called
911 demanding that a helicopter come rescue him because he was late for a meeting.

I guess he just went for a quick cache and got lost. LOL !!!

This sounds like a story I read once that took place (don't know whether it was true or an urban legend) in the Pacific Northwest (he lived in Washington). He just went out for a hike - nothing to do with Geocaching. Seems to me it was even before Geocaching was invented. In this case it was the debate about people going into the wilderness and thinking/expecting their cell phone would get them out of trouble.

3.8k · February 8, 2005

From the Geocachers' Creed

...Not Endanger Myself or Others

Like any outdoor activity, geocaching involves some inherent risk and many geocachers enjoy manageable risks. Minimize inordinate risks.

When creating a cache, describe any hidden dangers and, if possible, arrange the hunt to minimize these dangers.

When seeking a cache, know your limitations and be aware of your surroundings.

Don't attempt anything beyond your abilities.

A cache you own, or one you're trading out of, could be found by children or even a prisoner work crew - consider the location of the cache and those likely to find it when deciding what to leave as a trade item.

February 9, 2005

As Zygote 2K once said... "maybe you should stay home in your jammies". :blink:

February 9, 2005

Investigate whether or not your county and/or its neighbors have a search and rescue department.

In Colorado your fishing license has a .25 cent surcharge so they can come and get you anywhere you may be when you ask for their help.

The Department of Wildlife also has hiking "permits" from the state at the cost of approximately $15.00 for a five year period that pays for search and resue efforts anywhere or time you may need them.

Personally I would rather pay $15.00 to $20.00 instead of the standard $2000.00 an hour for the helicopter ride if I need it. :blink:

20.7k · February 9, 2005

OMG, now we're posting the creed like it's The Law of geocaching. :mad:

3.8k · February 9, 2005

OMG, now we're posting the creed like it's The Law of geocaching.

As Bill Murray said to Sagourney Weaver in Ghost Busters, "Actually, its more like a guideline." :mad:

Chill, SBell111. Just because someone gives you some good advice doesn't mean you have to take it. As I recall, the "rules" for Geocaching are:

1. Take something from the cache

2. Leave something in the cache

3. Write about it in the logbook

Where you place a cache is up to you.

Many people don't even follow those "rules."

P.S. It's just a GAME!

1.1k · February 9, 2005

We all live in the world. We all step into that world. Geocaching isn't a problem anymore than hiking or skydiving or rocket car racing.

People need to be responsible for themselves.

Those who aren't have nobody to blame but themselves.

The problem with geocaching as opposed to skydiving, race car driving or even a hike is that the intent of geoccaching is to find a cache, well it is! The intent of sky diving is to jump out of a perfectly good airplane and float to the earth on a few yards of fabric. The person geocaching does not think I may be a mile from my car and it may snow or I'll be so intent on looking at my GPSr that I wouldn't know how to find my way back. Okay now sing the trackback montra but most geocachers bearly know how to use their GPSr to find a cache much less the really neat feature. Now if you do know this then you probable the excecption. I am now to geocaching but tend to be a tecno junkie so I play with the gadget but I have met many older cachers that just know follow the arrow to the cache is all the GPSr is good for.

SO I digressed but with geocaching folks do NOT know there limits and don't pay attention to the weather or that any of a myriad of other thing. Yes everyone should be responsible for him/her self but then why do we have search and rescue?

cheers

February 9, 2005

:mad: How about using common sense.

Basset

February 9, 2005

double post. sorry.

Edited February 9, 2005 by vree13

February 9, 2005

SO I digressed but with geocaching folks do NOT know there limits and don't pay attention to the weather or that any of a myriad of other thing. Yes everyone should be responsible for him/her self but then why do we have search and rescue?

we have search and rescue for people that run into problems and need help. should they have to go out on unnecessary runs to rescue people simply because they were playing a game and didn't bother to look at difficulty and/or terrain levels? no. do they? yep.

folks not knowing their limits is not limited to geocaching. the point, though, is that if you don't pay attention to d/t, the weather or this that and the other thing, your laziness/neglegence is to blame. i'm not saying we shouldn't have search and rescue. why not be responsible cachers and pay attention to that stuff. use common sense and save the search and rescue team a trip.

AtoZ, why do you always use a puke smiley in your posts? you feel okay?

20.7k · February 9, 2005

You know, it occurs to me that search and resue is for when people run into problems. These problems are often due to the fact that the individual pushed themselves beyond their skill level.

This is not a geocaching issue. It is a life issue.

I guess that I don't really see the point of this thread. Should we mandate classes for everyone before they are allowed to pull up a cache page?

February 9, 2005

've read stories about how geocaching invites people to explore places they really shouldn't be without experience

How do you get experience ? if you never go

In situations beyoned your experience, research the topic and join with those who are experienced

February 9, 2005

exactly, it is only a game, but it's a game played out in an environment wherein novice players (or novice hikers, or kids old enuf to drive but not old enuf to know better) have the potential to hurt themselves or worse. and every time search&rescue are called on, those guys (and gals) put their lives on the line. for us - for a game. Search&Rescue should not be considered a "fallback strategy" for playing this game.

so, yes, the responsible (and friendly) thing for fellow gamers is to post a little reminder about caches way off the beaten path, so that newbies and novices are reminded to pay attention to where they are, and how to get back.

another side note - we're planning a CITO event in Iowa, and in talking to the Ranger to set it up, he mentioned that yes, he was aware of caches in the Parks he manages, because non-cachers will stumble across a cache, think it's evidence of a homeless encampment and report it to the Ranger, and then he has to make a trip out to check it out. So again, the responsible thing to do, and to save Park managers the added hassle and time, is for cachers (stashers?) to always notify them of caches in a public-use area. Your tax dollars at work......

20.7k · February 9, 2005

So, this game has been around for what, 5 years? How many times have search and rescue been called to save one of us for a frivilous reason?

I hope that you are not saying that we should never call for rescue. Certainly, an experienced climber who gets in trouble while going for a cache can call for help.

February 9, 2005

So, this game has been around for what, 5 years? How many times have search and rescue been called to save one of us for a frivilous reason?

I hope that you are not saying that we should never call for rescue. Certainly, an experienced climber who gets in trouble while going for a cache can call for help.

I was absolutely NOT saying that, and sorry that I wasn't clearer in making my point:

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of intervention.

And if we can prevent POTENTIALLY serious situations with just a little friendly reminder "This cache (which may or may not be difficult terrain), is quite a ways from the beaten path - so novices please take note and lay your breadcrumbs along the way to find your way back" (or whatever).

Or not, whatever.

Some Geocachers Don't Belong Here.

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