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60cs Beta Firmware - Disappointed


4x5shooter

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After being excited that the new 3.61beta firmware would solve a problem I've had with my 60cs (the release notes say it fixed the "lock ups when approaching some roads"), the new f/w doesn't fix the bugs in my case. <_<

 

There are a few spots here in Northern Virginia that cause the 60cs to shut itself off when you have guidance text set to "always on." Just driving along the road, the unit will totally crash, and it always happens in the same spots.

 

I've written to Garmin in the past, but never received an answer -- not even a "we got your e-mail." This bug was NOT in the earliest firmware, but appeared in one of the 3.4 betas and has been there ever since. I think it started at the same time the custom icons were introduced, but I doubt it's related.

 

If anyone lives in the Northern Virginia area, I'd love it if you could try your 60cs to see if you can recreate the bug. I wonder if it happens with City Select as well as City Navigator (which is what I use). Mine shuts itself off 100% of the time. The location is on my way to work, so I see it every day unless I remember to turn off guidance text. I say "shuts itself off," but actually it crashes and looks like it's shut off, but you need to hit the power button twice to turn it back on.

 

The one location I see all the time is driving along Leesburg Pike (Rt 7), crossing over the Beltway (I-495). Crashes the unit every time.

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I'm very excited about the "jump master" feature, even if i won't use it.

 

I made a few jumps a few years ago, never went back to get my certification.

 

 

A few months ago the DZ i jumped with had a crash. One girl died, the jump master and pilot were in bad shape. Sadly, they found the pilot at fault, and his lisence was expired. I'm not sure if i'll jump again but it's fun to play with.

 

 

 

wow, that was off topic

 

(just to get it back to geocaching) do you think the new feature could help geocachers sky dive accurately to a remote cache?

 

 

Joe Smith

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I live in Annandale - but I don't have a CS, I have a C - and I use City Select, not City Navigator...

 

I think I might just be able to swing by 7 & 495 tomorrow.  Does it crash going East AND West?  I'll let you know what happens tomorrow.

Well, I did not suffer any lock-ups in the area mentioned. Must be a problem specific to the CS or City Navigator or a combination of the two perhaps.

 

do you think the new feature could help geocachers sky dive accurately to a remote cache?

Yes, it most certainly could.

Edited by Neo_Geo
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After being excited that the new 3.61beta firmware would solve a problem I've had with my 60cs (the release notes say it fixed the "lock ups when approaching some roads"), the new f/w doesn't fix the bugs in my case. :)

 

There are a few spots here in Northern Virginia that cause the 60cs to shut itself off when you have guidance text set to "always on." Just driving along the road, the unit will totally crash, and it always happens in the same spots.

 

Mine is a similar problem. With all firmware upgrades since the original I get a total lock-up only when driving at a constant highway speed for approximately 20 minutes. No problem under any other driving conditions just that continous, uninterupted highway travel. I've had to revert back to the original firmware version after each try at any new upgrades. My emails also go unanswered by Garmin.

 

Olar

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Well, I did not suffer any lock-ups in the area mentioned.  Must be a problem specific to the CS or City Navigator or a combination of the two perhaps.

Hello, Neo_Geo. Thanks so much for checking. I'm frustrated it might be happening only to me. :)

 

It locks up for me every time, going both east and west on Rt 7, and it locks up right before you go over the bridge that crosses over I-495. So when traveling east (towards I-66), it locks up right when you get to the bridge, just after you pass the ramp to go on I-495 S and before you get to the ramp for I-495 N. If you're driving west, it locks up right after you pass Magarity Road and the ramp to go on I-495 N, just before you get to the bridge.

 

To describe what's happening -- I am on the map page and have guidance text set to "always on," so the crossroads are displayed as you approach them. If guidance text is set to "off" or "only when routing," it works fine. If I'm routing at the time, it works fine no matter what the setting is for guidance text. And if I'm on any page other than the map page, it works fine. Also, it doesn't lock up when driving on I-495 and approaching Rt 7 (passing under it) from either direction. Only when driving on Rt 7 and approaching I-495.

 

The lockup is that the screen goes blank and doesn't come back. It looks like it's shut off, but pressing the on/off button doesn't do anything, you have to press it twice (as if the first time turned it off "for real"). One time, it actually just reset the unit, as if I turned it off and on, but every other time, it blanks the screen.

 

I drive this way every morning and evening, so I can say for sure the lockup happens 100% of the time on my unit, so I would think it would happen to you, too. But if you also had guidance text on, were on the map page, and were not routing at the time, then you passed the test that mine fails each time. At least that may narrow down the possible bug further -- your experience tells me that perhaps it's my City Navigator (v5)? The thing is, earlier versions of the 60cs firmware (going back to 3.4 and earlier) work fine.

 

Also, there is at least one other location where the same lockup happens, but I always notice it too late to realize exactly where it happened. I think it happens somewhere in the Tysons area on Rt 123. Since I drive the other route all the time, I was able to pinpoint exactly where it locked up.

 

I just had a thought -- maybe I'll try deleting all tracks and waypoints and seeing if that makes a difference.

 

I don't suppose there's anyone else in the area that has a 60cs that can give it a try? I wouldn't ask except that this seems to be a strange bug that I have not seen reported around here except by me!

 

... also to Olar - FWIW, I haven't had that problem, but I feel for you! I can only hope Garmin is listening somewhere.

Edited by 4x5shooter
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Just to follow up on my thought to try deleting all waypoints, tracks, etc., I booted up this morning while holding down PAGE+ENTER to reset all user data, then changed nothing except going to the map page, zooming to 500 feet (the view I prefer), and turning guidance text to "always show." And...

 

Unfortunately, the 60cs locked up at the same place as usual. So I can rule out my personalized setup. :)

 

Now, assuming Neo_Geo did the same (i.e., guidance text on, not during a route, driving on Rt 7 and approaching I-495, not the other way around), then I guess it must be the fact that I'm running City Navigator rather than City Select. Something they did in the update from v3.4 to one of the 3.4 betas must not like CN, because none of the earlier versions locked up.

 

I don't suppose Garmin is listening? I'd be happy to try anything they suggest or send as much data as they want.

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With exaustive testing on my part...I've found that NOT using "Waypoint at Destination" in any of the trip computer fields has stopped my lockup in trackback during active navigation with continuous display of the trip computer.

 

So, my point...just for a goof, in case in your unit this might have anything to do with your type of lock up and until Garmin fixes this problem...drop "Waypoint at Destination" from what ever fields you might be using it and see if that stops your particular lockup. It would be worth a try cause it stopped my lockup type.

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I had a lockup problem with my 60cs that was similar to the one described, although the symptoms were quite different. (I returned the unit and received what I believe is a new one; I'm assuming the the replacement solves the problem. I've yet to verify. Garmin was very responsive and gave me no problem).

 

While just driving along (routing or not routing, but always with the map displayed) the unit would sometimes freeze. This would happen on battery or while using the auto power adapter. The unit would stop updating: the screen would remain "on." Furthermore, no buttons worked including the power button (i.e., I couldn't power down). If I held the power button down for maybe 10 seconds, the screen would slowly fade and turn dark. If I pressed the power button again, it would start up as "normal," but a short time later it would freeze up again. If I removed the batteries and replaced them, it would do the same thing. The really strange thing is if I left the unit off for maybe an hour and then turned it back on, the problem would not reappear for maybe several weeks. Never had the problem under any other circumstance.

 

Anyway, since the conversation turned to "lockups" or "freezes" I thought I'd share my experience.

 

Hal Zenner

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Thanks guys, for the additional information. I'm going to keep plugging away with Garmin and see if they can figure out what the problem might be. I'll keep the group posted on my progress and hopefully this will get cleared up in a future f/w update. In the meantime, I will just (reluctantly) turn off guidance text on the map page because I don't have the older f/w on my computer anymore.

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if you remove cn v5 from the unit does it lock up in the same place?

 

try contacting matt at garmin (cartography@garmin.com) and see if he's aware of any issues with older versions of cn and the 60 series. ultimately, an update to cn v6 might be the (painful) answer.

 

fwiw i too run cn on my 60 but have not experienced any lockups in my area.

Edited by Vlad
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if you remove cn v5 from the unit does it lock up in the same place?

 

try contacting matt at garmin (cartography@garmin.com) and see if he's aware of any issues with older versions of cn and the 60 series. ultimately, an update to cn v6 might be the (painful) answer.

 

fwiw i too run cn on my 60 but have not experienced any lockups in my area.

Thanks, Vlad. I've sent him a note. I am sure that if I removed CN v5 that it would not lock up in those areas, because I think it has to do with the "always show" display of the guidance text cross-street info -- if I turn off guidance text, it won't lock up, either. Nevertheless, I don't think the problem is with CN because the earlier versions of the 60cs firmware (v3.4 and earlier) worked with CN v5.

 

In any case, thank you for the e-mail address for Matt. I hope to hear back from him, since so far Garmin has not replied to the few e-mail bug reports I sent. I don't necessarily mind not getting a response, I just wish they could acknowledge they know about the problem and that there may be a solution. :unsure:

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...... because I think it has to do with the "always show" display of the guidance text cross-street info -- if I turn off guidance text, it won't lock up......

Shooter you mentioned that in an earlier post so I thought I would re-load the latest beta version and try your solution by turning off the "guidance text". I'm keeping my fingers crossed here because I have been able to make four consecutive trips without a lock-up as I had described earlier and which is identical to what Zenner is seeing.

I also do not think that older versions of City Select are the culprit because I would get the same problem when using Metroguide 4- Canada which is auto-routable and supplied to Garmin by a different mapping company then the CS mapping source. Definately a firmware bug.

 

Olar

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Hi All!

 

Here is my experience with the lock up problem...

 

My 60CS was always locking up at the same places. Most of the time, a junction between two majors roads. I tried A LOT of possibilities... I use my GPS in the FRENCH language and I own almost every MapSource product that fit in the 60CS (except CN 5).

 

I wrote to Garmin on a weekly basis. Tired of my e-mails, (new versions also introduced very bad translations, which could lead to real problem during navigation in French! They even not fixed the translations (I sent them the corrections), which is not hard to do), they asked me to send back the unit.

 

I received a brand new unit yesterday, still with the lock up problem!

 

My personnal impression, is that the GPS never lock when a page on which no position data are present is showing. Try to let the unit on the menu (any menu) and see what happen what your are driving on the "dark spot"...

 

To me, 60CS has a lock up problem, but Garmin has a "stuck up" problem when they denied the fact a bug exist in their units...

 

Martin, proud owner of a Magellan 1000, the very first civil GPS! (15 min hot start!!!) <_<:lol:

 

PS: I live in Quebec. The map was getting similar problem, but the trouble was some french character on map!

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Interesting. I was able to pinpoint two more places where my 60cs locks up, and both are where two major roads cross, as Multi-GPS suggested -- Rt 123 N (haven't tried S) crossing under the Dulles Toll Road, and Rt 7 W (haven't tried E) crossing over the Dulles Toll Road. The original one I mentioned above was Rt 7 E or W crossing over the Beltway.

 

Each spot is one major road crossing over or under another. Interestingly, it doesn't lock up when I drive through the same spot on the other road. All three of those spots are within about a 5 mile radius.

 

Another thing Multi-GPS mentioned is that he has a lot of maps loaded. So do I -- US Topo, Ntl Parks East, CN 5, and tide points. I think I have an overlapping CN, US Topo, and tide point map for this area. I will try deleting all maps and loading only the CN maps for the area and try again to see if somehow they might be affecting things. I doubt it will work, but it's worth a try.

 

It's worth repeating that my lockups occur only on the map page and only when guidance text is set to always on. When I turn it off or "only when routing," it does not lock up at those spots.

Edited by 4x5shooter
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One last update, then I'll shut up about my problems with my 60cs.

 

I tried what I said in my reply immediate above this one -- deleting all maps and loading just the CN maps for my area. Then headed out to one of the hotspots. Still crashed at the same point. Oh well. :lostsignal:

By the way 4x5shooter thanks for the tip on turning off the guidance text. At least doing that allows me to use the latest upgrade version problem free rather than constantly trying the new releases and then having to revert back to the original.

Until Garmin find it in their hearts to fix it I can live without the text during highway travel and then turning it on when exiting.

 

Cheers, Olar

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I thought I was done adding to this thread, but Vlad's contact at Garmin cartography wrote me back today (thanks again, Vlad!), letting me know he'd forwarded my bug report to the 60cs engineers.

 

Immediately after I sent a thank you to him, I received a note from the 60cs beta s/w engineer that he was aware of the issue and had recently fixed the bug -- specifically, he said, "It was a problem, like you said, with approaching certain roads with the navigation text displayed. I sent software to someone else for testing and they confirmed the problem was fixed. I hope to have a non-beta release out soon."

 

So it sounds like it is indeed fixed in the next release. I am keeping my fingers crossed -- the current beta on Garmin's site has in the release notes that it "fixes a lockup that occurs when approaching certain roads," but obviously it didn't fix the lockup I describe, since I'm running that beta s/w now... so I hope this is a new fix. It sounds like it is, so I'm cautiously optimistic.

 

If you are reading -- thanks to Garmin for responding!

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I have a 60C and have the same lockup problem.

 

I live in Quebec and I get a lockup at many places.

This will happen with City Select V6 and Topo Canada maps loaded.

 

On Highway 640, north of Montreal, I always know where the GPS will stop....

 

I also contacted Garmin and they told me to return my unit but I did not do it since I was sure the problem was with the firmware.

 

I told them that the problem may be with the french language or with the multi-map features.

 

I went back to 3.30 and everything works fine.

 

I hope Garmin will correct this bug soon... so I may have the newest features.

 

Martin

Edited by laforcem
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Glad I read this thread.

 

I have a 60 C and have NOT upgraded anything. Here's what I can tell you.

 

I drive around for work and for caching with the GPS on, quite often using Auto-Routing.

 

Never locks up or crashes. I am still running the orginal firmware that came with it over a year ago (I think, I can't quite recall when I got it, but the Auto Routing was added in August)

 

If I get a chance on Monday, I'll drop in to see Olar with my 60 C and see what is different.

 

:ph34r: The Blue Quasar

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hey guys,

 

i too have a similar problem to all the lock outs. i strongly believe its the firmware upgrade like all you do..

 

but what i do is where it always locks up (for me, its 401 and allen rd - toronto) i switch it to the Highway Mode (or whatever mode its called, the one where it looks 3D and you're driving wiht this funny line) and it doesn't crash.

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but what i do is where it always locks up (for me, its 401 and allen rd - toronto) i switch it to the Highway Mode (or whatever mode its called, the one where it looks 3D and you're driving wiht this funny line) and it doesn't crash.

You are correct -- if it is on any page but the map page (or if it is on the map page but either is routing or has guidance text turned off), then it won't crash.

 

For a while, I would quickly hit "page" to go to the compass page before driving through the hotspot I always hit on my way to work, then I'd hit "quit" once I passed through it, to go back to the map page.

 

The problem is that I would forget to do this all the time. Not to mention I shouldn't have had to do it in the first place.

 

I've found the best solution is to put guidance text on "only when routing." I just wish I could turn it on and leave it on, as I could in the earlier firmware versions (v3.4 and earlier).

 

As I said above, supposedly Garmin has already fixed this bug, and it will be in the next non-beta firmware update. I am keeping my fingers crossed.

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You guys having problems with the backlight?

 

Used to be if you were following a route with the backlight on it would come on with the next turn pop up. Now it doesn't even when you press a button. I keep missing turns in the dark, or have to keep turning my map light on and off.

 

Joe Smith

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Following up on this old post with the new v3.70 software. I am VERY pleased to say that the bug has been fixed (finally!). This bug has been around for a long time, and I have to say that my hopes weren't high when I tested it out today, but for the first time since v3.40 of the software, I had no lockup at the "hotspot" on my way to work.

 

I am extremely pleased. That was the only bug I've had with my 60cs since the very early versions of the firmware.

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Funny thing is that Ive never had these problems, because I don't like anything on my map page other than just the map itself. Ive noticed how little map is left when I turn on the data fields, and even less if the guidance text is turned on. I usually page to the compass page or the autorouting page for the information.

 

I could try this experiment with my 60C, with the Guidance text and data fields turned ON, and see if mine locks up.

 

--------

 

Ive had problems with the backlight on mine, and part of the blame goes to the intermittant power problems from the 12V adaptor cable, not making contact in the cigarette power socket.

Edited by GOT GPS?
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Today, I drove through three of the places where my 60cs used to lock up every time (actually, two of them were the same spot, but approaching from opposite directions). No lockups at all. The new v3.70 has definitely fixed the problem -- I'm happy. :(

 

GOT GPS - I agree that the data fields get in the way of the map, but I use two fields when routing, one that says time until next turn, the other that gives the ETA. I find both very useful. The time to next can give you a heads up not to pay attention to it for a while, or when you need to be ready for the next turn. The ETA is useful for obvious reasons. Also, I like the guidance text on when not routing because it tells you the names of cross-streets before you get to them. I turn off the data fields when not routing (a feature I wish for is data fields to appear only when routing).

 

The lockups only happened at particular roads, so you might never get a lockup unless you found one of the "hotspots," so I'm not sure it's worth trying to get it to lock up. I just happened to figure out the problem because one of the hotspots is on a route I drive every day. Glad that v3.70 fixed it!

Edited by 4x5shooter
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Greeting All

 

I just got my 60C back from Garmin after suffering a total system crash.

But, before the unit crashed I had noticed that the unit would turn its self off at the same location every time. (Entering/Exiting the 400 highway from/to King Rd, in Ontario, Canada)

The unit would just turn off and when I turned it on again it would run for 4 to 7 mins then turn off again. The only way I could get out of the turning off trick was to turn off the unit for about 20 mins then it would work fine. I lived with this for about 6 months then the unit totally died. Could not turn it on for love or money.

On the 11 March I sent the unit to Garmin in the US and received the unit back on the 22 of March. (Warranty repair)

The service fix listed on the work order is

 

Master system reset. Upgrade to latest software ver 3.60

 

Before the unit was sent out, I had been installing all the latest software versions. When the unit died it had 3.50 as the lastest software.

 

Baston

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Greeting All

 

I just got my 60C back from Garmin after suffering a total system crash.

But, before the unit crashed I had noticed that the unit would turn its self off at the same location every time. (Entering/Exiting the 400 highway from/to King Rd, in Ontario, Canada)

The unit would just turn off and when I turned it on again it would run for 4 to 7 mins then turn off again. The only way I could get out of the turning off trick was to turn off the unit for about 20 mins then it would work fine. I lived with this for about 6 months then the unit totally died. Could not turn it on for love or money.

On the 11 March I sent the unit to Garmin in the US and received the unit back on the 22 of March. (Warranty repair)

The service fix listed on the work order is

 

Master system reset. Upgrade to latest software ver 3.60

 

Before the unit was sent out, I had been installing all the latest software versions. When the unit died it had 3.50 as the lastest software.

 

Baston

Hi Baston. Is it working OK now? My lock-up problem was avoidable by using 4X5shooters' fix - not displaying guidance text on map screen and has been fixed with the latest version upgrade 3.70.

 

Cheers, Olar

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Hi Olar

 

I am going to be testing the crap out of it over the long weekend. I think I see a trip up to Barrie in the next day or two. But as of yet I have had no issues.

And my time to lock after arriving at a call, turning off the 60 then anywhere from 20mins to 4 hours later turning the unit back on, is 6 to 10 sec. As well the unit seems to operate allot faster.

 

But I will see.

 

Have a good easter weekend.

 

Baston

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I had a new lock up yesterday. I was searching for a cache using the Geocaching mode. I selected found and headed for the nearest cache. I then cycled to the map mode and tried to re navigate using on-road. The unit then locked up tight. Had to remove the batteries. I was able to reproduce this at 4 different caches.

 

Any others have this problem?

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Yes, I'm having the same lock up problem when calculating or re-calculating a route. It's when I select "Follow Road" or "Off Road" (doesn't matter which), then it locks up before the "Calculating..." screen appears. It's random, happening maybe 1 out of 4 times. Using ver. 3.70 firmware, haven't used any other version as I just got the 60C a few days ago.

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Yes, I can confirm the same thing. Out on a geo-marathon this weekend and switching from Follow Road to Off Route resulted in a total lock-up -- power switch would not resolve the problem. Had to remove the batteries and restart. Happened 3 times during the day, same set of circumstances. Either go back to 3.5/3.6 or wait and see if Garmin posts a fix within the next few days (ha!)...

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The stinking thing died again. I called Garmin. They are going to replaced unit with a new one. This has cost me close to $80.00 for shipping and insurance. Iguess the topo canada will have to wait.

 

The same issues were present before it died.

 

Baston

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Greetings All

 

I got my 60C back on Friday April the 15th. Its a new unit. The software version is 3.7 and I have used it daily from Friday on. I have not had any lockups or shutdowns yet. I am keeping my fingers crossed. But I am wondering if there is an issue with the chipsets for the first couple of manufacturing runs. My old 60C was bought around April 15 2004 and it started to crash in Aug of 2004 and finally died in Dec of 2004. It was set for repair March 11, 2005 and I received it back March 22, 2005 and it died again one week later. Garmin then replaced the unit.

It would be interesting to look at the age of the units that are crashing and locking up. Maybe there is more to this then a firmware issue.

 

Baston

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