Metals To Make My Own Coins

April 12, 2005

Hi,

Take it from one who casts pewter every day, stick with the tin products and skip the lead, it's a nasty and dangerous metal!

If you are really interested in doing your own white metal casting, I would recommend you check out the following link for spin casting supplies. I'm not affiliated in any way other than being a twenty year customer.

Contenti Spin Casting

There are also contractors available that for a reasonable price will make a mold and do casting. If you are only going to produce a limited run, they are a much more economical way to go.

MC

Since pewter can contain lead, how do you make certain it does not if you're melting down pewter objects?

June 16, 2006

Haven't made the coin yet, waiting on casting sand

So far I have managed to make very hard muffin.

FIRST MELT

http://www.geocities.com/bryhar0/geocoin.html

20.7k · June 17, 2006

This is one of my all time favorite threads. Thanks for dredging it back up.

I can't wait to see more of your project.

June 17, 2006

I'll have to say, I've enjoyed reading this one thus far--and very well timed, I might add. I've been trying to figure out a sig item, and was seriously contemplating 'carving' my own brand out of a block of metal with my dremel, but I think I'm going to go the poured metal route for the sig items. Picked up some plaster of paris tonight and made some small blanks that I'll try basic work with first--melting fishing weights down into ingots. I think before I pour metal into the plaster though, I'm going to put them in a 200° oven for an hour or two to bake any and all water out of the molds.

Anyone else have advice/tips for using plaster as a mold? Or is it just a really bad idea?

June 17, 2006

Anyone else have advice/tips for using plaster as a mold? Or is it just a really bad idea?

That was my original plans, but I heard plaster is fairly dangerous for following reasons.

Some of the ingredents of plaster have lower melting point then some metals. Will cause minor defects

Mold will probably crack (or explode) because of moisture, even if you bake it overnight. Will cause major defects. If you put molten aluminium on concrete, it kind of explodes because of the moisture that is in the concrete, throwing hot chunks of aluminium several feet, I know this from experience, so be very careful with the plaster.

June 17, 2006

Sources of zinc

Fly wheels on some briggs&stratton lawn mower engines are sometimes made of zinc.

Bell housings for some alternators are made of zinc

You can put a drop of Muratic acid (Pool Supply) and if it fizzes right away it is zinc

The reason the above are sometimes made of zinc, is because its non magnetic, and doesnt effect the magneto. At least that was explaination explained to me.

1.4k · June 17, 2006

This link has some very useful information. I got my goodies from them for another unrelated project and the RTV rubber works pretty good.

June 17, 2006

This link has some very useful information. I got my goodies from them for another unrelated project and the RTV rubber works pretty good.

Micro-mark also has a good selection of casting supplies and equipment for the hobiest. I just made my first order from them, the one to one RTV rubber. Right now they have a sale going, but their shipping charges are steep. If you are going to be casting metals, I still think it is best to find a jewelry supply store and get a good crucible.

I may also try casting some resin items soon. Though "geocaching related," they may not be sig items. :anibad: Large craft stores, like Michals in my area, have some resin casting supplies, though you will probably need to get RTV rubber somewhere else. Cast resin may be a good way to make a plastic sig item if you do not wish to mess with melting the metals.

July 5, 2006

Back to the lead part of the thread.

"Within the human body, lead damages the nervous system, circulatory and blood forming system, reproductive system, kidneys, and gastro-intestinal tract. In adults lead poisoning can cause various symptoms, including fatigue, loss of appetite, stomach disorders, forgetfulness, headaches, insomnia, irritability, hypertension, anemia, reduced desire for sex, impotence, dizziness, and weakness in the extremities.

It is much more serious when children are exposed to lead. Since the brain has not yet completely developed, lead poisoning can cause learning disabilities, attention deficit disorders, lowered IQ, and anti-social behavior. Elevated levels of lead sustained over a period of time, can damage the central nervous system of children and adversely impact their development."

http://lead-info.com/

I don’t think there is any question about the dangers of lead once it is in the body. I do have a beef about the hysteria associated with it. I worked in a Navy Shipyard where the environmental office would go ballistic at the sight of lead. (Hands waving in the air, running and screaming “We’re all gong to die”).

Simply melting lead does not produce significant levels of lead vapor. When the lead comes up to a boil then you have a dangerous situation. If placed in a very hot container it can boil without the usual liquid with bubbles rising. The key is to keep the lead well below the boiling temperature. Don’t try to rush it by applying more heat. Let it melt at it’s own pace. Good ventilation is recommended just incase. Keep the wind to your side as opposed to your back. The reason is the air will go around your body and back into your face bringing any fumes with it.

Lead will form an oxide coating that can rub off on your hands. That is not very dangerous in it’s self but if you then put your hands in your mouth or handle food without washing your hands then it can be swallowed.

While I think it is great that all the environmental/safety people try to help us their approach seems to be to ban anything harmful. I prefer that they educate and allow us to make our own choice where it is our own health etc. involved. But part of the problem is the lower levels of environmental/safety people are only following the direction of higher ups and may not know the true dangers involved.

Please make your Geocoins with due care.

July 5, 2006

A tip when you are creating a plaster mold:

To avoid air bubbles hold/set the container of plaster on a fish tank pump (or something else with similar vibrations) . Learned this trick in Dental School when learning to make plaster teeth. You don't have to do this long, just right after mixing to get the bubbles out.

July 8, 2006

Back to the lead part of the thread.

"Within the human body, lead damages the nervous system, circulatory and blood forming system, reproductive system, kidneys, and gastro-intestinal tract. In adults lead poisoning can cause various symptoms, including fatigue, loss of appetite, stomach disorders, forgetfulness, headaches, insomnia, irritability, hypertension, anemia, reduced desire for sex, impotence, dizziness, and weakness in the extremities.

It is much more serious when children are exposed to lead. Since the brain has not yet completely developed, lead poisoning can cause learning disabilities, attention deficit disorders, lowered IQ, and anti-social behavior. Elevated levels of lead sustained over a period of time, can damage the central nervous system of children and adversely impact their development."

http://lead-info.com/

I don’t think there is any question about the dangers of lead once it is in the body. I do have a beef about the hysteria associated with it. I worked in a Navy Shipyard where the environmental office would go ballistic at the sight of lead. (Hands waving in the air, running and screaming “We’re all gong to die”).

Simply melting lead does not produce significant levels of lead vapor. When the lead comes up to a boil then you have a dangerous situation. If placed in a very hot container it can boil without the usual liquid with bubbles rising. The key is to keep the lead well below the boiling temperature. Don’t try to rush it by applying more heat. Let it melt at it’s own pace. Good ventilation is recommended just incase. Keep the wind to your side as opposed to your back. The reason is the air will go around your body and back into your face bringing any fumes with it.

Lead will form an oxide coating that can rub off on your hands. That is not very dangerous in it’s self but if you then put your hands in your mouth or handle food without washing your hands then it can be swallowed.

While I think it is great that all the environmental/safety people try to help us their approach seems to be to ban anything harmful. I prefer that they educate and allow us to make our own choice where it is our own health etc. involved. But part of the problem is the lower levels of environmental/safety people are only following the direction of higher ups and may not know the true dangers involved.

Please make your Geocoins with due care.

I really can't believe the fervor with which you defend lead for this use. It is toxic. And it ought not to be in caches.

BTW, how do you know that your own (or Rainwater's grand-dad's) exposure had no effect? A few IQ points are easy to miss... not an insult, just a truth. How would you know about unrealized potential your nervous system may have had?

It reminds me of my father, who was often exposed to PCB's (Polychlorinated biphenyls) used as a coolant fluid inside of large electrical transformers. He says things like "I've taken baths in that stuff all my life, and I never got cancer!".

Hmmm... Well why don't we put some PCB containing items in a few caches then?

Look, Lead is simply not necessary. So why use it?

Edited July 8, 2006 by headybrew

July 8, 2006

Look for small pieces of soap stone at a local fabricator of stone countertops. Usually a good stone and tile store can tell you who handles soap stone. My local fabricators have been very willing to keep a bag of bits and pieces for me for free.

Soap stone does work well for casting certain items, but I would recommend carving a piece wax, soft wood, or soap stone and then using a polymer clay such as Super Sculpey to create a sturdy mold that retains detail and can be used over and over again. Super Sculpey can be ordered online or often found in a good art supply store. A two-part silicone mold like Belicone is also easy to use and readily available, but will wear out faster.

July 12, 2006

I don’t think there is any question about the dangers of lead once it is in the body. I do have a beef about the hysteria associated with it. I worked in a Navy Shipyard where the environmental office would go ballistic at the sight of lead. (Hands waving in the air, running and screaming “We’re all gong to die”).

Simply melting lead does not produce significant levels of lead vapor. When the lead comes up to a boil then you have a dangerous situation. If placed in a very hot container it can boil without the usual liquid with bubbles rising. The key is to keep the lead well below the boiling temperature. Don’t try to rush it by applying more heat. Let it melt at it’s own pace. Good ventilation is recommended just incase. Keep the wind to your side as opposed to your back. The reason is the air will go around your body and back into your face bringing any fumes with it.

Lead will form an oxide coating that can rub off on your hands. That is not very dangerous in it’s self but if you then put your hands in your mouth or handle food without washing your hands then it can be swallowed.

While I think it is great that all the environmental/safety people try to help us their approach seems to be to ban anything harmful. I prefer that they educate and allow us to make our own choice where it is our own health etc. involved. But part of the problem is the lower levels of environmental/safety people are only following the direction of higher ups and may not know the true dangers involved.

Please make your Geocoins with due care.

I really can't believe the fervor with which you defend lead for this use. It is toxic. And it ought not to be in caches.

BTW, how do you know that your own (or Rainwater's grand-dad's) exposure had no effect? A few IQ points are easy to miss... not an insult, just a truth. How would you know about unrealized potential your nervous system may have had?

It reminds me of my father, who was often exposed to PCB's (Polychlorinated biphenyls) used as a coolant fluid inside of large electrical transformers. He says things like "I've taken baths in that stuff all my life, and I never got cancer!".

Hmmm... Well why don't we put some PCB containing items in a few caches then?

Look, Lead is simply not necessary. So why use it?

Let me take another tack here. What is your stand on Dihydrogen Monoxide? If you look at this page you can see that this stuff is very toxic. We should all write our congressmen about this horrible stuff and have it banned entirely right? Every word on that page is true.

Many caches do get contaminated by Dihydrogen Monoxide, and you can encounter it on your way to and from the cache. In this state we have as many as 200 deaths a year from Dihydrogen Monoxide. It is most lethal when combined with chloride or chlorine. Why in the world should we allow this in our environment? Why does GC.com approve caches near and on ground known to be contaminated with Dihydrogen Monoxide?

Getting back to the lead issue, it’s not about the lead. If you don’t want to use lead then don’t. But let’s not get too far out in left field here. Once you understand the Dihydrogen Monoxide connection you will understand what I am getting at.

20.7k · July 12, 2006

Many caches do get contaminated by Dihydrogen Monoxide, and you can encounter it on your way to and from the cache. In this state we have as many as 200 deaths a year from Dihydrogen Monoxide. It is most lethal when combined with chloride or chlorine. Why in the world should we allow this in our environment? Why does GC.com approve caches near and on ground known to be contaminated with Dihydrogen Monoxide?

Getting back to the lead issue, it’s not about the lead. If you don’t want to use lead then don’t. But let’s not get too far out in left field here. Once you understand the Dihydrogen Monoxide connection you will understand what I am getting at.

Are you trying to say that lead is no more dangerous than water? Certainly, that is not your position.

July 12, 2006

Many caches do get contaminated by Dihydrogen Monoxide, and you can encounter it on your way to and from the cache. In this state we have as many as 200 deaths a year from Dihydrogen Monoxide. It is most lethal when combined with chloride or chlorine. Why in the world should we allow this in our environment? Why does GC.com approve caches near and on ground known to be contaminated with Dihydrogen Monoxide?

Getting back to the lead issue, it’s not about the lead. If you don’t want to use lead then don’t. But let’s not get too far out in left field here. Once you understand the Dihydrogen Monoxide connection you will understand what I am getting at.

Are you trying to say that lead is no more dangerous than water? Certainly, that is not your position.

I think his position is lead is not as dangerous as some people make it out to be.....yes, it is toxic to our bodies, but some people seem to think that any exposure at all will instantly cause permanent, irreversible nervous system damage when in reality, as long as you're smart about how you handle lead (wash hands (with dihidrogen monoxide no less)) you're not going to be in any real danger.

Yes, be smart about how you handle it--don't chew on it or make your dinnerware out of it, but we don't need to have a chicken little attitude about it. If it was REALLY that dangerous, do you think I could walk into a hunting store and buy 25 lb bags of it with no I.D.?

20.7k · July 12, 2006

I think his position is lead is not as dangerous as some people make it out to be.....yes, it is toxic to our bodies, ...when in reality, as long as you're smart about how you handle lead (wash hands ...) you're not going to be in any real danger.

Yes, be smart about how you handle it--don't chew on it or make your dinnerware out of it, but we don't need to have a chicken little attitude about it. ...

I get what he's saying, but this thread is about making geocoins. I believe that geocoins should be made from materials that can be handled by children with much training or oversight. Lead doesn't fit the bill, in my opinion.

July 12, 2006

I think his position is lead is not as dangerous as some people make it out to be.....yes, it is toxic to our bodies, ...when in reality, as long as you're smart about how you handle lead (wash hands ...) you're not going to be in any real danger.

Yes, be smart about how you handle it--don't chew on it or make your dinnerware out of it, but we don't need to have a chicken little attitude about it. ...

I get what he's saying, but this thread is about making geocoins. I believe that geocoins should be made from materials that can be handled by children with much training or oversight. Lead doesn't fit the bill, in my opinion.

I understand your point. BUT, what if I make a geocoin or sig item out of cast led, and then epoxy coat or powder coat the lead casting? Either way, I have an solid enamel coating over the lead core, and barring serious mishandling of the item, the lead inside poses no threat.

20.7k · July 12, 2006

I would go with aluminum or zinc long before lead.

July 13, 2006

Many caches do get contaminated by Dihydrogen Monoxide, and you can encounter it on your way to and from the cache. In this state we have as many as 200 deaths a year from Dihydrogen Monoxide. It is most lethal when combined with chloride or chlorine. Why in the world should we allow this in our environment? Why does GC.com approve caches near and on ground known to be contaminated with Dihydrogen Monoxide?

Getting back to the lead issue, it’s not about the lead. If you don’t want to use lead then don’t. But let’s not get too far out in left field here. Once you understand the Dihydrogen Monoxide connection you will understand what I am getting at.

Are you trying to say that lead is no more dangerous than water? Certainly, that is not your position.

Thank you dkwolf, well said.

Sbell111, define more dangerous. More people die from drowning than from lead related illnesses in any given year. But with proper precautions both can be safe.

I love the Dihydrogen Monoxide web page because it shows how you can mislead people even while telling the truth.

On the issue of putting a lead item in a geocache; do we want to childproof all geocaches? That would mean no items that have parts small enough to be a choking hazard. Do travel bug tags fall into that category? Many items in geocaches do. Adult supervision is required of all small children all the time until they can take care of themselves. Especially while geocaching.

If you are worried about trace amounts of potentially hazardous material, what about the prior use of the geocache container? Many are ammo cans. While the military does not normally use lead in the projectiles they do use depleted uranium. Was that container properly cleaned? If not then everything in it could be contaminated.

I am a proponent of moderation. Don’t get me wrong, there are dangers with lead but handling a coin or even making a bunch of coins is not going to cause any detectable damage.

If I made a geocoin it would be made of brass or copper. Lead is just not a pretty metal.

20.7k · July 13, 2006

Sbell111, define more dangerous. More people die from drowning than from lead related illnesses in any given year. But with proper precautions both can be safe.

I love the Dihydrogen Monoxide web page because it shows how you can mislead people even while telling the truth.

On the issue of putting a lead item in a geocache; do we want to childproof all geocaches? That would mean no items that have parts small enough to be a choking hazard. Do travel bug tags fall into that category? Many items in geocaches do. Adult supervision is required of all small children all the time until they can take care of themselves. Especially while geocaching. ...

First of all, regarding the water argument, it was only introduced in this thread as a red herring.

Secondly, most people give their ammo cans a quick wash because most ammo (get this!) is made out of lead. Incidently, the military is moving away from lead in its ammo due to the danger of lead poisoning.

7.2k · July 13, 2006

Secondly, most people give their ammo cans a quick wash because most ammo (get this!) is made out of lead. Incidently, the military is moving away from lead in its ammo due to the danger of lead poisoning.

Huh! I wouldn't have thought lead would have been an issue in ammo cans since most military ammo is FMJ--no exposed lead.

20.7k · July 13, 2006

Huh! I wouldn't have thought lead would have been an issue in ammo cans since most military ammo is FMJ--no exposed lead.

I get that you like to chase me around and snipe at my heals, and I'll admit that we're getting away from my sphere of knowledge, but 'no exposed lead' does not mean that there will be absolutely no lead dust. Also, some of our ammo cans are quite old. Edited July 13, 2006 by sbell111

7.2k · July 13, 2006

Huh! I wouldn't have thought lead would have been an issue in ammo cans since most military ammo is FMJ--no exposed lead.
I get that you like to chase me around and snipe at my heals, and I'll admit that we're getting away from my sphere of knowledge, but 'no exposed lead' does not mean that there will be absolutely no lead dust. Also, some of our ammo cans are quite old.

I just didn't think I needed to worry about lead poisoning from ammo cans. Don't get your feathers in a rough.

July 13, 2006

Getting back to the lead issue, it’s not about the lead. If you don’t want to use lead then don’t. But let’s not get too far out in left field here. Once you understand the Dihydrogen Monoxide connection you will understand what I am getting at.

I'm having a hard time deciding how your post was meant to be taken, so I won't comment on it directly.

I can only say that NOBODY should be putting toxic substances into caches. It doesn't help to tell me that if I don't like toxic substances then I shouldn't use them. How can I trust ANY home made coin or metallic object if I some people condone using toxic substances to make them?

Or are these lead supporters just arguing for the fun of it? I mean it's really hard to defend the position they are taking.

20.7k · July 13, 2006

...Or are these lead supporters just arguing for the fun of it? I mean it's really hard to defend the position they are taking.

I think you have hit on it.

July 14, 2006

...Or are these lead supporters just arguing for the fun of it? I mean it's really hard to defend the position they are taking.

I think you have hit on it.

While we're at it lets ban paper currency. As you can see a lot of it is contaminated with cocaine. Where does it end? Will we all be in a bubble to protect us from any possible exposure to the least little hazard? I hope not I would like to live my life without that kind of neurosis.

I can see you are not going to budge from your opinion that lead is not acceptable under any circumstance. And I won’t stop believing that it’s not as bad as all that. Its hazards are very containable. So let’s agree to disagree and see if we can get back to the original thread of casting geocoins.

July 14, 2006

What about lead free potable water supply solder. I have a few rolls of the stuff and it seems to melt really easily. I have been playing with it by pouring it into dry wall molds.

Question now is, how can I make a real mold, and what (harder?) metals should I use?

July 14, 2006

...Or are these lead supporters just arguing for the fun of it? I mean it's really hard to defend the position they are taking.

I think you have hit on it.

While we're at it lets ban paper currency. As you can see a lot of it is contaminated with cocaine. Where does it end? Will we all be in a bubble to protect us from any possible exposure to the least little hazard? I hope not I would like to live my life without that kind of neurosis.

I can see you are not going to budge from your opinion that lead is not acceptable under any circumstance. And I won’t stop believing that it’s not as bad as all that. Its hazards are very containable. So let’s agree to disagree and see if we can get back to the original thread of casting geocoins.

Well, after this discussion, I'm pretty well convinced that if I ever find a home-made geocoin that looks like it could possibly contain lead, I ain't taking it. If I had some way to find out for sure that it contained lead, then I'd trash it out. And probably post a big warning that the perpetrator's items should be trashed out by anyone who finds them.

20.7k · July 14, 2006

I can see you are not going to budge from your opinion that lead is not acceptable under any circumstance. And I won’t stop believing that it’s not as bad as all that. Its hazards are very containable. So let’s agree to disagree and see if we can get back to the original thread of casting geocoins.

You didn't, perhaps, chew on your windowsills as a young child, did you?

7.2k · July 14, 2006

Watch out for drinking out of antique pewter, as well.

Modern pewter is lead-free, but watch out for the older stuff.

I'm talking from the point of view of an engraver, but what about those little figurines that those D&D guys used to play with? Weren't those made with pewter? If it's low grade pewter, then is could very well have lead.

Personally, I'm not all that afraid of lead poisoning from a coin in a cache. I don't ever recall seeing a coin not in some sort of pouch. The pouch would prevent or reduce any wearing effect which would cause lead dust. Of course, I wouldn't give it to my kid to chew on either.

As for using lead for coins, why not just step up a little to pewter? Check engraving shops that engrave pewter gifts. Every one should have a small supply of screw ups. You might be able to land enough for your project.

8.8k · July 14, 2006

FYI: How to Protect Your Family From Lead In Your Home

It's an adobe Acrobat file

July 14, 2006

Getting back to the lead issue, it’s not about the lead. If you don’t want to use lead then don’t. But let’s not get too far out in left field here. Once you understand the Dihydrogen Monoxide connection you will understand what I am getting at.

I'm having a hard time deciding how your post was meant to be taken, so I won't comment on it directly.

I can only say that NOBODY should be putting toxic substances into caches. It doesn't help to tell me that if I don't like toxic substances then I shouldn't use them. How can I trust ANY home made coin or metallic object if I some people condone using toxic substances to make them?

Or are these lead supporters just arguing for the fun of it? I mean it's really hard to defend the position they are taking.

I'm sorry, but I can't help but LAUGH at this post. Yes, lead is toxic to our bodies. But, given the exposure you have to have to cause any adverse effects, the idea of calling it a toxic substance and grouping it with arsenic, etc. is really kinda funny. Explain something to me....if lead is SO dangerous that a single geocoin or sig item made from it is going to cause damage, how on EARTH did all of these outdoorsmen live to be 90, 100 yrs old and die of old age? You know the ones I'm talking about? The ones that made their own bullets, shotgun shells, and fishing jigs, melting the lead in their own KITCHENS, holding the lead jigs in their mouth while they tie the knot in the line, working with lead pellets all day and picking up a sandwich without washing their hands.... You get the picture--HIGH levels of lead exposure, and they lived.

And for the record, I'm not aruguing just for the fun of it; I don't like seeing people over-react to something. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying be careless with it, but don't be so deathly afraid if it, either. Good practices for ANYTHING you pick up out of a geocache will eliminate any risk you might have from a lead item. (Don't put it in your mouth, wash your hands before eating, drinking, or maybe even smoking)

Oh, and sbell....you're right, you're out of your sphere of knowledge. A full-metal jacket bullet won't have any lead dust on it by the time it gets to an ammo can--the bullet has a lead core which is completely encased in copper, which is then polished before being pressed into the casing. No lead dust=no lead dust in ammo cans.

One more question for people so afraid of lead....how old is your house? (and I'm not asking about the paint) You do realize that some homes still have lead pipe for water supply lines? I'd be a lot more concerned about that than some custom geocoin.

20.7k · July 14, 2006

I'm sorry, but I can't help but LAUGH at this post. Yes, lead is toxic to our bodies. But, given the exposure you have to have to cause any adverse effects, the idea of calling it a toxic substance and grouping it with arsenic, etc. is really kinda funny.

My understanding is that it has a cumulative affect. Either way, why introduce the risk that is easily avoided by making coins out of other metals?

Explain something to me....if lead is SO dangerous that a single geocoin or sig item made from it is going to cause damage, how on EARTH did all of these outdoorsmen live to be 90, 100 yrs old and die of old age? You know the ones I'm talking about? The ones that made their own bullets, shotgun shells, and fishing jigs, melting the lead in their own KITCHENS, holding the lead jigs in their mouth while they tie the knot in the line, working with lead pellets all day and picking up a sandwich without washing their hands.... You get the picture--HIGH levels of lead exposure, and they lived.

I'm sorry. I don't know the ones you are talking about. Please point them out for me. Again, why bother introducing a risk that is easily avoided.

And for the record, I'm not aruguing just for the fun of it; I don't like seeing people over-react to something.

I'm sorry. I have to call 'shenangians' here. I don't buy for a second that you are not arguing just for the sake of argument. Otherwise, you would concede the point that lead poisoning is a wirthwhile concern and admit that it is a problem that is better avoided. I only wish that I had the self-control to ignore your arguing for arguing sake. If I had, perhaps this thread wouldn't have been pulled so severely off-topic. It's too bad. It used to be one of my all-time favorite threads.

Oh, and sbell....you're right, you're out of your sphere of knowledge.

I freely admitted that I was not within my comfort zone on that point. I shouldn't have brought the ammo can issue up, since it was ancillary to the topic.

One more question for people so afraid of lead....how old is your house? (and I'm not asking about the paint) You do realize that some homes still have lead pipe for water supply lines? I'd be a lot more concerned about that than some custom geocoin.

I don't know why you care, but our current house is about 18 years old. It doesn't have lead pipes or paint. I am unaware of any lead dangers associated with it. We will likely be moving back up north in the next year or so and I will be careful to ensure that our next home also doesn't contain any lead dangers. Thanks for asking.

July 14, 2006

FYI: How to Protect Your Family From Lead In Your Home

It's an adobe Acrobat file

I did take the time to read that pamphlet--it's very informative. I'm still not worried. Looks to me like 99% of the concern is from lead dust, which in a cast piece such as a coin will not exist. Pure lead is a very malleable metal, any contact with another metal is going to dent or deform the lead, not grind it to dust. It also looks like the greatest majority of the danger from lead is to small children. I'm guessing the little tykes are not geocaching on their own, so they're going to be trading with adult supervision. If you're suspect, don't let them take it, but don't destroy it--that's someone's craftsmanship. I'd be a lot more worried about them picking up a little stuffed animal (seen lots of TB's of these) that's been in a dark, damp environment for who knows how long.

Like I've said, be smart about it and a lead coin isn't going to cause you any problems...and yes, if you're casting your own coins, lead maybe isn't the *best* choice, but if it's what you have, or all you can afford, so be it. If/when I start casting my own, the first runs especially will likely be lead; it's easier to work with. If they get released into the wild, they'll have a protective coating--enamel most likely. Sure, I'd like to have my own crucible and be able to cast better metals, but I really doubt it's going to happen.

July 14, 2006

One more question for people so afraid of lead....how old is your house? (and I'm not asking about the paint) You do realize that some homes still have lead pipe for water supply lines? I'd be a lot more concerned about that than some custom geocoin.

And even if they have copper pipe for water supply, many areas allowed lead solder to be used to connect the copper pipe until as recently as 20 years or so ago. So every connection where a pipe meats an elbow, etc. will have solder exposed inside the pipe where water touches it. GASP!

Also, because lead-free solder can be harder to work with, a lot of plumbers ignored bans on lead solder and used it anyway. It's very tough to tell the difference when looking at a pipe's solder joint.

Face it folks, if the lead doesn't kill you, you're still exposed to toxins at every turn: pesticides, germs, etc. etc. etc. Handling a lead-based signature coin is not going to spell your doom.

20.7k · July 14, 2006

... It also looks like the greatest majority of the danger from lead is to small children. I'm guessing the little tykes are not geocaching on their own, so they're going to be trading with adult supervision. If you're suspect, don't let them take it, but don't destroy it--that's someone's craftsmanship.

You know, the vast majority of people who find a geocoin in a cache will not have read this thread. If they are caching with their child and the child spots a geocoin and picks it up, they wmight not think 'I wonder if it's made out of lead' because the assumption would be that everyone would be smart enough in 2006 to not make them out of lead. Again, why introduce the danger when you don't have to?

...and yes, if you're casting your own coins, lead maybe isn't the *best* choice, but if it's what you have, or all you can afford, so be it.

Many times in life, we must decide whether we want something bad enough to fit it into our budget. If we can't afford whatever it is we want, we go without. If you cannot afford the materials or equipment to cast geocoins, you shouldn't do it. Luckily, you still have loads of options for cool personal trade items (Even coins can be made inexpensively. Have you taken a look at some of the great Sculpey coins?)

20.7k · July 14, 2006

Face it folks, if the lead doesn't kill you, you're still exposed to toxins at every turn: pesticides, germs, etc. etc. etc. Handling a lead-based signature coin is not going to spell your doom.

I'm always facinated with this argument. Taken to its natural end, why should we use any caution at all in any part of our lives?

July 14, 2006

Yeah...lead is bad. Listen to the enviromental wackos

There is evidence that exposure to lead damages brain cells and reduces a person's intelligence.

Pardon me if I find your response ironic and amusing at the same time.

2.3k · July 14, 2006

I personally wouldn't use lead to make my own geocoin, but I wouldn't have a problem handling one made of lead. It's just not going to be enough exposure to be of concern.

I don't wash my ammo cans either. I clean the outside before painting, but not the inside. I will sand the inside if there is rust, but never really thought of washing it.

July 14, 2006

I can see you are not going to budge from your opinion that lead is not acceptable under any circumstance. And I won’t stop believing that it’s not as bad as all that. Its hazards are very containable. So let’s agree to disagree and see if we can get back to the original thread of casting geocoins.
You didn't, perhaps, chew on your windowsills as a young child, did you?

Personal attacks are uncalled for and unbecoming a charter member of this group and the US military rank whose insignia you have chosen as an avatar.

July 14, 2006

I do a lot of stained glass work and I've learned to be very careful around lead-based solder and came and other supplies.

It amuses me how some people seem to think if they touch led and a third head doesn't pop out from underneath their armpit, that this indicates lead is perfectly safe. Some people just can't recognize cause and effect unless it happens right in front of them upon demand. Heavy metal toxicity does not work that way. It's a gradual, cumulative process and by the time any symptoms appear, it's way, way too late. Shortsighted, ignorant people apparently love to think that you're a "wacko" if you recognize that some things or activities will *eventually* be harmful even if it's not immediately obvious and choose to be careful.

20.7k · July 14, 2006

I can see you are not going to budge from your opinion that lead is not acceptable under any circumstance. And I won’t stop believing that it’s not as bad as all that. Its hazards are very containable. So let’s agree to disagree and see if we can get back to the original thread of casting geocoins.
You didn't, perhaps, chew on your windowsills as a young child, did you?
Personal attacks are uncalled for and unbecoming a charter member of this group and the US military rank whose insignia you have chosen as an avatar.

That was a question, not an attack. Nor, in my opinion does it dishonor the game or the rank.

July 14, 2006

I do a lot of stained glass work and I've learned to be very careful around lead-based solder and came and other supplies.

It amuses me how some people seem to think if they touch led and a third head doesn't pop out from underneath their armpit, that this indicates lead is perfectly safe. Some people just can't recognize cause and effect unless it happens right in front of them upon demand. Heavy metal toxicity does not work that way. It's a gradual, cumulative process and by the time any symptoms appear, it's way, way too late. Shortsighted, ignorant people apparently love to think that you're a "wacko" if you recognize that some things or activities will *eventually* be harmful even if it's not immediately obvious and choose to be careful.

And yet you continue to work with lead. Obviously you are aware of the hazards and have determined them to be manageable and continue with your work. And that is as it should be. Thank you.

20.7k · July 14, 2006

And yet you continue to work with lead. Obviously you are aware of the hazards and have determined them to be manageable and continue with your work. And that is as it should be. Thank you.

The difference is, he's not making the decision for the rest of the community.

July 14, 2006

I'm going to agree with something sbell said in an earlier post (or it might have been a PM) but this thread is getting a little off-topic....think we can steer it back a bit? Please? Before the mods have to step in?

(yes, I know I was a main cause of the tangent, and for that I apologize. Hopefully some good knowledge came out of it though)

Edited July 14, 2006 by dkwolf

20.7k · July 14, 2006

Has anyone seen this site?

20.7k · July 14, 2006

The other day, I happened across a site that discussed throwing a ceramic crucible. I can't find it today.

20.7k · July 14, 2006

Here's the ceramic crucible page. I must have had a typo in my search.

2.3k · July 14, 2006

I do a lot of stained glass work and I've learned to be very careful around lead-based solder and came and other supplies.

It amuses me how some people seem to think if they touch led and a third head doesn't pop out from underneath their armpit, that this indicates lead is perfectly safe. Some people just can't recognize cause and effect unless it happens right in front of them upon demand. Heavy metal toxicity does not work that way. It's a gradual, cumulative process and by the time any symptoms appear, it's way, way too late. Shortsighted, ignorant people apparently love to think that you're a "wacko" if you recognize that some things or activities will *eventually* be harmful even if it's not immediately obvious and choose to be careful.

1) That's the precisely why I would not make coins out of lead. Because that would mean a great deal more exposure on my part.

2) If I did choose to use lead, I would most likely take the same precautions you do while working with in on a regular basis.

3) I'm not going to be carrying them around in my mouth.

4) I wouldn't let my children have them in their mouth. Not necessarily because of the lead, but because I would be WAYYYYY more concerned with them swallowing them.

2.3k · July 14, 2006

Has anyone seen this site?

Here's the ceramic crucible page. I must have had a typo in my search.

Thanks for bringing this back on-topic. I was actually looking for some information on casting my own coins. I'm just interested in a few sig items. I don't want them to be trackable or expensive.

Metals To Make My Own Coins

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