Metals To Make My Own Coins

[barnabasbenn]

Does anyone know where I can buy pewter to cast my own coins.The places I've looked at so far have a minimum order of 25lbs.-I just want maybe a pound so I can see if I can actually do this...

[+tirediron]

How about going around to the second hand stores and buying up a few pounds of cheap pewter ornaments? It won't be as cheap per pound as buying it from a metal merchant (I would guess) but it might be enough to get you started and see if it will work. Can't see why it shouldn't. Working with soft metals like lead, tin, and pewter isn't difficult. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

[+nfa]

Hi,

 

I've been fooling around with tin for making my own coins...you can get them pretty cheaply at a walmart or somethig similar in the form of newer lead-free fishing weights. Tin has a relatively low melting temp, is essentially non-toxic, and looks pretty nice as a finished product.

 

nfa-jamie

[+Blaidd-Drwg]

OK, so it appears you all know how to cast coins. How about sharing the techniques you use for creating a mold for your castings. Thanks

[Dale_Lynn]

As for actual casting of the coins look into the "lost wax" (investment) casting method, like jewelry and other industries use to create multiple casting of same pattern. Methods uses can be vacuum casting, pressure casting, centrifugal casting , and plain old gravity casting...

 

Suggest web search for "lost wax casting method" or " jewelry casting" or "small parts casting" or "metal casting" for some quick information.

 

Instead of casting why not consider stamping them...

 

Its probably easier to have custom metal stamp made (engraved) and use any good sheet material as copper, aluminum or brass, etc. for actual coin.

 

Dale

Edited January 30, 2005 by Dale_Lynn

[+nfa]

OK, so it appears you all know how to cast coins. How about sharing the techniques you use for creating a mold for your castings. Thanks

I've used a dremel-type machine to carve out the negative image in a block of soapstone...it works pretty well so far.

 

nfa-jamie

[JohnX]

For casting metal sold one pound at a time, check out The Dunken Co.

[+treedweller]

I've been experimenting with this and have a couple of bits of info:

A. tin fishing weights are not readily available in Texas--they all have a "contains lead" warning in the stores I've checked. Having said that, the lead-containing ones work fairly well to melt and cast. Bout $2/pound.

 

B. I haven't tried it yet, but was recommended the casting investment method--basically you make a plaster mold. Product suggested was "Satin Cast" available most cheaply (based on a brief internet search) from www.sfjssantafe.com (33 lbs for about 30 bux). there seems to be a 2 kg size, but the only place I saw it offered had a $25 minimum, so I went with the bigger size here. will try soon and let you know how it works. If you have a jeweler's supply nearby, you might be able to walk in and buy it.

 

things I've tried and eliminated:

clay replica pressed into sand (clay cupped when it dried, then broke when I pressed it into the sand. sand was distorted when I poured in the metal).

 

relief image carved into wood (moisture boiled out of wood through metal, creating air pockets).

 

I've looked for soapstone, but haven't found a source unless I want to buy a LOT. Also, I can carve wood but have no idea how stone carving compares.

 

I'd like to see more info about this--any old threads out there that anyone remembers (I'll do the search if I can get some hints of what to look for)?

 

treedweller

[+Two Geeks and a GPS]

tin fishing weights are not readily available in Texas--they all have a "contains lead" warning in the stores I've checked. Having said that, the lead-containing ones work fairly well to melt and cast. Bout $2/pound.

 

I thought lead in sinkers and shotgun shells was outlawed? Maybe just a Michigan thing?

 

At any rate...do not melt lead containing materials, especially if you have kids. The residue is nearly impossible to clean and the person doing the melting will breathe in the vapors.

I'll stop now, I am an environmental consultant who deals w/ lead poisoned kids. Sorry

[+treedweller]

tin fishing weights are not readily available in Texas--they all have a "contains lead" warning in the stores I've checked. Having said that, the lead-containing ones work fairly well to melt and cast. Bout $2/pound.

 

I thought lead in sinkers and shotgun shells was outlawed? Maybe just a Michigan thing?

 

At any rate...do not melt lead containing materials, especially if you have kids. The residue is nearly impossible to clean and the person doing the melting will breathe in the vapors.

I'll stop now, I am an environmental consultant who deals w/ lead poisoned kids. Sorry

 

I don't think it's just a MI thing, but it definitely is not a TX thing (no big shock there to anyone who knows anything about our environmental record). I looked in several stores that sell fishing gear and none had lead-free weights (or shot, AFAICT).

 

I am trying to find an alternative, as I am sensitive to concerns about lead. I've been doing my casting outdoors on the camping stove in a thrift-store pot (never to see another purpose) and have no kids about.

 

I am still a little concerned about dropping off lead-containing tokens in geocaches, though I hope the kiddies aren't pulling things out of caches and sticking them in their mouths, lead or no. Can someone in a lead-free state give me pricing range for fish weights (I've been getting "bank weights" and "egg sinkers" in 8 oz. or 16 oz. sizes for cheapest metal possible)? Maybe I just need to face facts and admit this is a spendy sig item, and abandon it or shell out for ingots of tin or lead-free pewter.

 

treedweller

Edited March 9, 2005 by treedweller

[+Renegade Knight]

...I thought lead in sinkers and shotgun shells was outlawed? Maybe just a Michigan thing?...

I don't own a shotgun but I thought they went to steel shot. Lead sinkers though, are commonly available.

[+welch]

...I thought lead in sinkers and shotgun shells was outlawed? Maybe just a Michigan thing?...

I don't own a shotgun but I thought they went to steel shot. Lead sinkers though, are commonly available.

You can get steel, bismuth/tin, etc (because you can't use lead when duck hunting) but lead is still available. At least thats how it is in Iowa.

 

/ edit

doing some google it seems that Canada has a complete ban. In the US its only on waterfowl hunting, the UK has similar it seems.

Edited March 9, 2005 by welch

[RexBloodman]

I have a suggestion!! Has anyone tried to use aluminium? It is readly available as cola cans in most states that I know of.

[+Ocean Archer]

Aluminum could be stamped (minted) just like geocoings or regular currancy -- all you need is a set of dies, and a machine that will do about 40 tons or so for pressure.

 

As far a melting -- aluminum has a very very high melting point, much higher than lead

[+treedweller]

Aluminum could be stamped (minted) just like geocoings or regular currancy -- all you need is a set of dies, and a machine that will do about 40 tons or so for pressure.

 

As far a melting -- aluminum has a very very high melting point, much higher than lead

AL also doesn't melt very well after it's been turned into a can--thin sheets oxidize badly and you get a bunch of slag.

 

k

[+Midway Cafe]

Hi,

 

Take it from one who casts pewter every day, stick with the tin products and skip the lead, it's a nasty and dangerous metal!

 

If you are really interested in doing your own white metal casting, I would recommend you check out the following link for spin casting supplies. I'm not affiliated in any way other than being a twenty year customer.

 

Contenti Spin Casting

 

There are also contractors available that for a reasonable price will make a mold and do casting. If you are only going to produce a limited run, they are a much more economical way to go.

 

MC

[+Beta Test]

Aluminum could be stamped (minted) just like geocoings or regular currancy -- all you need is a set of dies, and a machine that will do about 40 tons or so for pressure.

 

As far a melting -- aluminum has a very very high melting point, much higher than lead

AL also doesn't melt very well after it's been turned into a can--thin sheets oxidize badly and you get a bunch of slag.

 

k

I've made cans dissapear compltly in fires before. Not even slag was left.

[+Rainwater]

Yeah...lead is bad. Listen to the enviromental wackos

 

My 89 year old grandfather who fished all his life probably died of lead poisoning from the fishing weights he used and casted since he was like 12 yrs old...dang lead weights. Oh no wait that was the heart problems that got him. Maybe they where caused by lead. I will probably die from lead poisoning too since I have been fishing for like 30+ years with them lead weights also...dang lead weights.

 

About the only danger I can see with lead is the fumes when you heat it but if you do it in the open air with a breeze and you stand UPWIND of it then your probably safe. I have been casting my own lead weights outside for years with no ill effects. I get my lead from local tire shops and walking the river rocks below the local dam. The fumes I do worry about, but handling the stuff is no problem if you keep your hands washed afterwards. Oh you might drop a 10 lb chunk on your foot when you burn yourself on the smelter if you are not careful. Thats another danger I suppose...LOL

[+Two Geeks and a GPS]

Yeah...lead is bad. Listen to the enviromental wackos

Hey! I'm just looking out for the kids

 

Intersting lead info - It is widely believed to be the downfall of the Roman Empire! All the aquaducts and glassware ere made of lead. Interestingly, the rich people were more at risk. They could afford tha "fancy" lead mugs and dishes and all their water came from the lead lined aquaducts. The poor people drank right from the stream. Wine (acidic) and warm water (in the ducts) leach the lead out faster. Think back to Nero.....makes you wonder?!

I used to pop a sinker into my mouth while I was fishing!!!! Then I started working with lead poisoned kids...no good. Lead is more dangerous to the youngsters. We've had cases where dad was a welder (lead solder) had the residue on his clothes and that lead poisoned his kids.

BE CAREFUL!!!

[+welch]

Intersting lead info - It is widely believed to be the downfall of the Roman Empire! All the aquaducts and glassware ere made of lead. Interestingly, the rich people were more at risk. They could afford tha "fancy" lead mugs and dishes and all their water came from the lead lined aquaducts. The poor people drank right from the stream. Wine (acidic) and warm water (in the ducts) leach the lead out faster. Think back to Nero.....makes you wonder?!

Guess I don't understand aquaducts, I thought they were those stone arches with a water trough across the top... or were those lined with lead?

[+Blind Avocado]

Intersting lead info - It is widely believed to be the downfall of the Roman Empire! All the aquaducts and glassware ere made of lead. Interestingly, the rich people were more at risk. They could afford tha "fancy" lead mugs and dishes and all their water came from the lead lined aquaducts. The poor people drank right from the stream. Wine (acidic) and warm water (in the ducts) leach the lead out faster. Think back to Nero.....makes you wonder?!

Guess I don't understand aquaducts, I thought they were those stone arches with a water trough across the top... or were those lined with lead?

I don't know if their aqueducts were lead lined, after all there were thousands of miles of them. I heard that it was their cooking utensils (pots, pans etc.) that were made of lead and of coarse leached into the food as it cooked.

 

What I would really like to know is how to melt the metal. Can this be done easily at home or do you need a furnace?

Edited March 12, 2005 by Blind Avocado

[+New England n00b]

Lead also made a good solder joint in those days. The aquaducts physically were stone, but the still needed piping and junk.

 

Anyway, cheap bags of lead can be had at hunting supply stores in the form of pellets for loading your own shotgun shells.

 

Bismuth is now used as well, and you may be able to buy that from such stores (waterfowl friendlier than lead). Not sure what the melting temp of bismuth is though...

[+New England n00b]

Lindsay Books has some interesting reading on how to cast metals, build your own crucible/furnace and what not. Colorful company, good reading.

[+GSVNoFixedAbode]

Bismuth is now used as well.....(waterfowl friendlier than lead).

Bet it still stings though

[cacheman22]

You can melt small voulmes of metal with a propane torch. Buy an inexpensive stainless serving spoon or ladle. Avoid using lead or other found metals, they weren't necessarily alloyed for casting. Using the right materials can save you a lot of grief and will greatly inprove your chances of success. If you use plater to make a mold make sure it is absolutely dry before pouring molten metal in it. Any water will turn to steam and create holes in the casting and might even cause an explostion that sprays you with molten metal and bits of plaster. It has happened to me.

Edited March 12, 2005 by cacheman22

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

If you use plater to make a mold make sure it is absolutely dry before pouring molten metal in it. Any water will turn to steam and create holes in the casting and might even cause an explostion that sprays you with molten metal and bits of plaster. It has happened to me.

 

Cacheman22 beat me to it, but let me reiterate that pouring molten metal in anything wet - wood, sand, clay - even things that appear completely dry can contain moisture - is extremely dangerous.

 

Molten metal poured into a wet enclosed space will create steam and pressure - in other words - a bomb!

 

Also scary - put your lighter and flamables away carefully - I once saw a fellow drop his cigarrette lighter into a ladle of molten aluminum - it was not pretty.

[+treedweller]

 

What I would really like to know is how to melt the metal. Can this be done easily at home or do you need a furnace?

For white metals like tin, lead, zinc, pewter, a camping stove works fine. I've been using a plain cookpot from the thrift store. Of course, you can do better, but this is what I have on hand.

 

treedweller

[+chaos reloaded]

Edited March 12, 2005 by -cthulhu-

[+treedweller]

This is the best I've managed so far:

[+Blind Avocado]

This is the best I've managed so far:

What kind of mold did you use, and how did you make it? That is another problem that vexes me; how can somebody with absolutely no artistic talent like me make a cast mold that looks like something that somebody would want. One problem at a time I guess.

Edited March 13, 2005 by Blind Avocado

[+Midway Cafe]

This is the best I've managed so far:

Nice job treedweller!

 

I'm guessing that these were attempts in a wooden die? Very close to my first attempts at casting many years ago.

 

Get yourself ready to do a little bit of casting that will give results that are closer to your master model. You were on the right track with the clay impression in sand, but you will have much better results if you use the correct sand. The following link will take you to a kit that is available for sand casting that gives very good results with a very short learning curve.

 

Sand Casting Kit

 

You really don't need the full kit, only the frame (also known as a cope and drag) and a can of the sand. I use standard unscented baby powder for my parting powder and have been using the same can of sand for years. If your item is small enough you can mount them on trees and cast a number of them at once. If you open the mold carefully you may be able to use it several times before you have to ram it up again. All in all an inexpensive and fun way to do a limited production run.

 

I have to go into work for a few hours tomorrow. While the pots of metal are heating up and the new mold is in the vulcanizer, I'll try to take a few pictures to post illustrating the process and the results, stay tuned.

 

You could also hit the pet store and pick up a couple of cuttlefish bones. Slice them down the center to make two long thin sections. Press you model inside the two halves then remove. Cut a channel from the outside to the model cavity with a knife (be careful). Then wire the two pieces together and pour your molten metal into the channel. After cooling you will have to cut the sprue off your casting and sand it down a bit. You can get some really great textures from this technique, especially if you rub the mold with a soft brush. It brings out something similar to wood grain.

 

MC

[+treedweller]

What kind of mold did you use, and how did you make it? That is another problem that vexes me; how can somebody with absolutely no artistic talent like me  make a cast mold that looks like something that somebody would want. One problem at a time I guess.

As Midway guessed, I carved a reverse impression in a piece of wood. The holes in the face of the casting resulted from moisture that boiled out of the wood--the first few were quite a bit worse than these. After drying the wood in an oven awhile it got better. My next few might have been cleaner if I'd just kept using the wood till it got drier, but each casting burned the wood a little more, so I was losing ground from both directions.

 

For a more permanent mold, I plan to carve a positive model in wood (you might try clay for an easier medium since you claim no talent) and then make a mold from plaster (see post above). Since geting advice that I must use special plaster for investment casting, I've heard elsewhere that regular plaster of paris will work (available at most any craft or hardware store). This might be a good first step if you want to explore the possibilities, but I make no promises.

 

If plaster doesn't go well, I have my eye on a big chunk of soapstone at the local art supply--back to negative relief carving for that one. I'm hoping it won't come to that.

 

treedweller

[+Chalky723]

Yeah...lead is bad.  Listen to the enviromental wackos 

 

My 89 year old grandfather who fished all his life probably died of lead poisoning from the fishing weights he used and casted since he was like 12 yrs old...dang lead weights.  Oh no wait that was the heart problems that got him.  Maybe they where caused by lead.  I will probably die from lead poisoning too since I have been fishing for like 30+ years with them lead weights also...dang lead weights.

 

Actually its not you or your relatives the laws are there to protect, its the birds & other wildlife that ingest the lead pellets. The lead builds up in their system & eventually kills 'em. Also other things eat lead contaminated beasties & the chain goes on.

 

I wouldn't be bothered if you ate lead for breakfast - its up to you, but if we can stop everything else from having to do so..........

 

Chalky

 

Edit: Typo

Edited March 13, 2005 by Chalky723

[+Midway Cafe]

Hi Everyone,

 

Let's see if these pictures make any sense.

 

#1 Original model is placed in 1/2 of mold frame on a flat surface.

 

#2 Drag packed with sand and struck off to level.

 

#3 Drag is turned over and cope is put in place.

 

#4 After drag is packed with sand and struck off level, mold halves are separated the model is removed and a sprue channel is cut in the sand. Lightly powder the mold to aid casting.

 

#5 Cope and drag are placed together and held tight with binding wire. The mold is now ready to pour.

 

#6 Finished casting is removed from the sand after cooling.

The last thing to cool is where the most shrinkage takes place. The large button base is a solidification head, which draws the heat away from the casting. At the base of the picture, the original model is on the left and the clone is on the right. After a couple swipes with some steel wool the casting is ready to trade.

 

In response to the original poster, if you are seeking small quantities of lead free pewter, hit the local plumbing supply house or hardware store and pick up some 100% tin (SN) solid wire solder. It will work beautifully for this type of casting.

 

Cast and cache on,

 

MC

[+treedweller]

After a little online research, someone got me pointed in a new direction on metal to cast. Turns out, zinc in the form of pennies (post 1983) costs about $2/pound. It doesn't melt till about 900*F. but still achievable on a camp stove or similar.

 

I'm still waiting for my plaster to dry so I can try it out.

 

treedweller

[Shoobie & the Sand Crabs]

curious what does this have to do with geocaching?

[+sbell111]

A number of us make our own geocoins.

[+Thorn Cachers]

Where to by pewter: In the Salt Lake City area the best place for small quantities is Freshman's. This is a jeweler’s that sells jewelry equipment and supplies. They will sell one pound chunks of good lead-free pewter. (And various gemstones and gold if you want a really neat FTF prize.) I would expect most large cities would have some similar business. I agree with what others have posted. Lead-free pewter will look better, and given the minimal additional cost, lead is just not worth the trouble.

 

I have cast using some old 1930's era molds I got from my dad. I've been experimenting for a while trying to cast a sig item with my own molds. Using investment and lost wax casting is fun, but it takes a relatively long time to produce multiple items that way. The investment is much better than regular plaster, if for no other reason than it is much easier to remove from the final item.

 

I think the best way to make a mold is with RTV rubber. You can take several molds off of the master, and pour several at a time. I have recently used Quick-sil to make some molds off a wood model I carved. This costs a little over $30 for two pounds at Freshman’s. This should be enough for 5-6 molds of the size pictured below. Contenti also has a RTV rubber that can take white metal cast directly into it, but I’ve not tried it. These are the results of the first attempt with Quick-sil:

 

 

They are still a bit crude as I did not take a lot of care with the original model (I was not too sure of Quick-sil) and I didn't mix the Quick-sil well enough. On my second attempt, the rubber mold was good enough the casts showed the grain on the wood, so my next batch will need a much better model.

 

Here is a photo of the mold, made from Quick-Sil:

 

[Kybra]

I have a heap of old brass shell casings, would they be a viable source of metal for casting?

[+Midway Cafe]

I have a heap of old brass shell casings, would they be a viable source of metal for casting?

I tried years ago and had such poor results that I sent what was left to the scrap pile. There is a lot of surface area to develop oxides and the brass is has not been alloyed for casting. But give it a try, you have nothing to lose.

 

MC

[Kybra]

I have a heap of old brass shell casings, would they be a viable source of metal for casting?

I tried years ago and had such poor results that I sent what was left to the scrap pile. There is a lot of surface area to develop oxides and the brass is has not been alloyed for casting. But give it a try, you have nothing to lose.

 

MC

Thanks for that, I had a slightly alterior motive for asking this, as a CO of a cadet unit it would be cool if we could make our shoot trophies from the big pile of shells we have left over. So even if the castings have flaws in them due to the oxidation this would only add to the uniqueness rather than the mass produced plastic figurines.

[+rcav8r]

This thread was the closest thing I could find to making my own coins via casting or stamping.

 

The pewter is a good idea, didn't think of that, was thinking more like aluminum.

 

Being a machinist, I could make an aluminum mold, just gotta have a design.

 

I'd be intrested in learning more about making coins via stamping/striking, probably in a sheet of aluminum. got access to a 100 ton press, and it wouldn't be had to make one either just for this purpose.

 

a google search on "homemade coins" or "coin making" didn't turn up anything relevent.

 

John

[+joefrog]

One of my favorite (and most impressive) coins so far came from a cacher who used brass rods. He sawed off a nice chunk of rod (coin shape already), then uses a dremel to carve out the image he wants. He then stamps in the info with a set of number/letter stamps. It turns out great!! I plan on trying this method myself eventually, until my own coins are finished!

[+M-T-P]

Back to the lead part of the thread.

 

"Within the human body, lead damages the nervous system, circulatory and blood forming system, reproductive system, kidneys, and gastro-intestinal tract. In adults lead poisoning can cause various symptoms, including fatigue, loss of appetite, stomach disorders, forgetfulness, headaches, insomnia, irritability, hypertension, anemia, reduced desire for sex, impotence, dizziness, and weakness in the extremities.

 

It is much more serious when children are exposed to lead. Since the brain has not yet completely developed, lead poisoning can cause learning disabilities, attention deficit disorders, lowered IQ, and anti-social behavior. Elevated levels of lead sustained over a period of time, can damage the central nervous system of children and adversely impact their development."

 

http://lead-info.com/

[+tx Packrat]

pewter is basically a mix of lead and tin. if you have the means to smelt it you can make your own. most tire shops will give you all the lead you want, and you could add in tin from tin cans. We used to make pewter all the time back in the dark ages when I was in crafts class in Jr. High

[+BadAndy]

With all the effort being put into casting or minting your own coins...why not just use silver? They'd be less than half the cost of commercially minted custom coins, are lead free, and have a decent WOW factor.

[+rcav8r]

actually, I would not used the pewter with lead in it. I'd used the lead free pewter. If lead wasn't relatively dangerous, I'd use the 100+ pounds I have from my bullet casting days.

 

Anyone wanna swap lead for lead free pewter?

 

hmmm....just a thought....how about powder coating lead? Powder coating works at 400 deg. F, while lead melts somewhere around 600-800F (don't remember exactly what).

 

According to one site that sells pewter in bars, its 90% tin (or more, depending on which type).

 

John

[+Crusso]

When I was younger we made Plaster of Paris molds of quarters (thought we'd hit the local gumball machines!). We melted old bullets we collected from the local shooting range and poured it in. Never thought that the mold might explode! or that the lead was toxic! I guess we were lucky! The quarters actually had good detail but were useless as coinage (guess we were saved from a life behind federal bars!).

[+Thorn Cachers]

There are different alloy’s of pewter. The jewelry supply place I frequent also has a yellow version designed to resemble gold. Traditionally, all pewter contained lead. The modern lead-free pewter is mostly tin, with various other metals thrown in for extra shine, or for some other reason. However, you can also cast with pure tin and pure zinc, which can be much cheaper. The zinc is very cheap, but melts at a temperature a bit too high to use in the RTV molds I’ve been playing with. Silver, gold, aluminum and most other jewelry metals require much higher temperatures to cast, and you really need a centrifuge or vacuum assist machine to do well.

 

Lead is not too bad if you are an adult and you use basic common sense. However, I do not want to leave it in geocaches or where parents may give it to kids; and I would rather others did the same for the sake of my kids. The lead may eventually form a powder that will get on the other toys in the cache. This is bad.

 

If you try to cast with zinc, be aware the vapor is poisonous if you get it hot enough to vaporize. Also, investment (or plaster) must have all the moisture baked out of it before you cast and you must be careful of moisture. Water will vaporize with hot metal, and may cause an explosion or splatter. This is also why you should wear a face mask or eye protection when casting. (Think a glob of 500-600 deg F liquid metal in your eye.)

 

I just found some pure tin ingots at a scrap dealer in Salt Lake City, which they sold for $6 per pound. This casts into items that are almost as pretty as the pewter that costs $18 in small amounts. They also had a couple of pewter ingots in their new scrap bin I could have had for $6 per pound, but since we could not tell if they were a lead-free alloy, I passed on them.

 

A good scrap yard can give you lots of different metals to work with. However, either you need to be able to recognize the metals well, or you need someone there who can trust to do a good job identifying them. Most of the white metal alloys (tin, lead and zinc alloys, mainly) have some lead in them traditionally.

[+Muggle Finder]

I've saved the covers that go over the corks on wine bottles. They're made of tin (????). Could those be melted down?