Jump to content

Become A Cache Caretaker/caregiver


cachecare

Recommended Posts

An important mission statement of the Geocacher's Code is "protecting the integrity of the gameplace." I do believe we could expand upon this by establishing what I would like to refer to as Cache Caretakers and Cache Caregivers. Each one has elite mission to "protect the integrity of the gameplace," but with slightly different objectives. We might equate these highly trained members to that of a special forces team that all members respect and support.

 

MnGCA takes pride (for good reason) in its geocaching organization www.mngca.org/ Yet, we all have come across geocaches that diminish the integrity of this great sport. It only takes one or two to be a setback to the diligent efforts of the majority. In a way we are all Cache Caretakers and Caregivers, but some of us have a superior due diligent integrity for this sport. These are the level-headed cachers I am looking to for your finite vision of a TRUE Caretaker and Caregiver. I do see a difference between these two types of due diligent geocachers even though both have above average insight and wisdom.

 

Both a Caretaker and a Caregiver have the highest of standards in promoting the best aspects of the sport. They both are true blue blood hounds, but each one has a unique purpose or mission to "protecting the integrity of the gameplace." They both promote the sport by encouraging other geocachers with a one on one mentoring relationship.

 

Hopefully, I will be allowed and encouraged to formulate the nations first Cache Caretaker and Caregiver mentoring program in Minnesota. Members will become either a Caretaker and/or a Caregiver. This will require a more formalized due diligence to geocache mentoring among the elite geocachers of this planet.

 

There will naturally have to be certain requirements to becoming a Caretaker and a Caregiver. For example they will have to be elected by a certain number of geocaching members. Fellow members that nominate a prospective Caretaker and/or Caregiver will elaborate upon the due diligent characteristics of each prospective Cachecare nominee that sets him/her apart as a superior member with unique insight and wisdom. These superior Cachers should be so acknowleged with a prestigious patch(s) that they can purcfhase for a nominal fee for attaching to their favorite geocaching shirt(s). Perhaps each state organization could have a design contest for its own CacheCare patch.

 

Thanks in advance to you all for your insight and wisdom.

Link to comment

It's the responsibility of all cachers to maintain* the caches they come across. Why have a secret club to do it?

 

* maintain in this sense means post accurate logs as to the condition of the cache, fix it if you have the proper supplies (pencil, logbook, container) with you, and trash out accumulated junk (gum wrappers and other trash)

Link to comment

Hi,

 

I agree with some of the previous posts that a special group to do this is redundant, as most geocacher I know carry some cache-repair stuff with them when they go caching anyways...I know I do.

 

nfa-jamie

Edited by NFA
Link to comment

Your talking cache angel's here.

 

They have been around for a long time. Now you are talking moving it to the level of the New York Angels who haven't been in the national news for some time.

 

I wonder if they are still around.

 

The concept is interesting, time will tell if it's something you can organize a group around it.

Edited by Renegade Knight
Link to comment

Will they be permitted to wear cache uniforms, carry guns, and execute any non-conforming caches and their respective owners? If so -- sounds good. <_<

 

I think if folks like to play the game that way then go ahead. oh.... please don't do anything to my caches beyond the existing rules. You can seek them, sign the logbook, trade items, and log your visit online. A little baggie, a new pencil -- that's okay too.

Link to comment

I think acceptance of the cache caretaker method advocated by the OP will depend on the local area. In some places, like Michigan, a highly structured and organized cache rescue / adoption system has worked very well for that group. In other areas, seeking out lonely caches and fixing them up, or rescuing an abandoned cache, can score a geocacher points or recognition in an informal game. In still other areas, efforts by some geocachers to deal with caches in trouble has met with resistance and resentment from others in their community, who view such formal efforts as the "geocops." Finally, there are plenty of local caching communities that are loosely organized, if at all, yet very healthy. The people there watch out for each others' caches and things take care of themselves.

 

And backstopping all of this is the infrastructure of the geocaching.com website and the regional volunteers, who can step in to investigate maintenance complaints and "should be archived" logs.

 

Different approaches will work in different areas. So long as the cache caretakers are out there doing their good deeds, that's cool, regardless of the degree of structure.

Link to comment
I'm not sure I understand. What exactly will these people do?

Oooh, good question. I was wondering that, too.

 

Adding a new logbook, replacing a container, ziploc bagging the trade items and cleaning out the gum wrappers and dirty golf balls is one thing.

 

Confiscating caches that are regarded as "litter" is another thing entirely. They are still the owner's property. There is a process involved for getting a cache rescued, adopted or archived. The first step is contacting the owner and being sure that the cache is abandoned.

 

There are a few statements in the original post and in the anonymous poster's profile page which make me cautious the more that I read them. If you're just helping out, why the need to be anonymous? When I repair or replace a cache, I say so in a log on the cache page and I always get a thank-you from the owner, if they are still active. Good karma.

Link to comment

I dont like it either.. Just go caching...... sorry but as stated before it is all geocachers duty to keep a cache in decent shape. It allways seems like some people have to nicpic someting to death. Just go caching..... We dont have to have all these special t-shirts and strict rules and structures to follow... It is a simple concept.... Just go caching...... yes your gonna find run down caches and crappy spots... then quit caching if you dont like it... Just go caching......

 

Sorry to be blunt but sometimes this stuff just gets under my skin......

Link to comment

Given that the topic has no details as to the actions of a CareTaker or CareGiver, I'm confused as to how anyone could possibly "hate" it as of yet.

 

Fortunately, these same people weren't asked when someone first mentioned the idea of putting a bucket in the woods.

Link to comment

A couple years back we had a cacher removing caches from the nearby Wilderness Area before there was a ban against such placements and while he thought he was doing what was right (in his opinion) all he did was create a lot of anger and hostile feelings toward himself from the local cachers in the area. While your idea has good intentions, I see it as kind of like a homeowners association of the geocaching community which would create new problems. I can see it now, "geocaches can only be drab green in color and must not exceed 30 caliber in size or owners will be cited”.

Link to comment
We might equate these highly trained members to that of a special forces team that all members respect and support.....

Yet, we all have come across geocaches that diminish the integrity of this great sport. It only takes one or two to be a setback to the diligent efforts of the majority.

 

I find these two sentences quite unsettling. They certainly suggest that if "special forces" come across a cache they deem to "diminish the integrity of this great sport" that they'd be prepared to DO something about it - like take it out - and act with the expectation that "all members" will "respect and support" such a decision. NOPE. I don't think so.

Link to comment

I would really appreciate it if the original poster could provide concrete details of what this is. What is the difference between a Caretaker and a Caregiver? What do each do and why/when do they do it? Also, why the annonymity? If it is some idea to go take care of abandoned caches and restock them etc, then I think that is fine. If it some idea to remove caches that are subjectively disliked, I am concerned. But based on the initial post, I lack the information necessary to form an opinion.

Link to comment

All,

 

Please take this individual with a very small grain of salt. I am not a member of the MnGCA board but am an active member of MnGCA and a very active Geocacher. Recently, we have had an individual join our local forum and start to spout off about how good he is, how good his hides will be and about how he intends to increase the quality of the sport. He has not been received well by the members of MnGCA. My guess is that this is the same individual. On MnGCA he goes by the handle "EagleXplorer". As I say I suspect that this is the same individual.

 

I'll be seeing several of the board members today and will inform them of this thread and see if they want to make an official response. However, unofficially, I can say that what this individual is spouting is not the position of the MnGCA.

 

Unfortunately, we can not keep individuals like this from posting, so I would suggest that the best thing we can do is to just ignore the PITA and maybe he/she will just go away.

 

Thanks, Arcticabn, member MnGCA

Link to comment

As a board member of the Minnesota Geocaching Association, I invite this individual to talk with us if he has any concerns about the quality, upkeep or legality of caches in the state of Minnesota. Even though we have no authority, we are interested in the general thoughts concerning the caches in the state. The MnGCA does not enforce rules or standards for caches in the state, but we help educate cachers about local, city, county and state regulations about caching.

 

As it was said above, the cache placer is also the caretaker and caregiver of the cache. If an individual has a problem with the care given to a particular cache, I suggest that person contact the cache owner, who is the de facto caretaker and caregiver.

 

We do not promote nor encourage individuals or other groups to trump this, and it is my belief that Groundspeak also takes this stance.

 

-Aaron

Link to comment

Apparently I'm not the only environmentalist concerned about what seems to be a rather free-spirited, hands-off mentality by MnGCA. I find it a little puzzling that the President of MnGCA is only known as John with no last name or photo as far as I've been able to determine. I also wonder if Marsha and Silent Bob's ([name removed], V.P. of MnGCA) elevator goes all the way to the top floor. He apparently sees nothing wrong with a fellow geocacher fiXing an oak birdhouse to a live tree in a city park as an eXtra cute and clever means of hiding a cache container "Bad Old Putty Cat." Does MnGCA need to establish guidelines for a size limit on the use of bird houses for hiding a cache? A Wood Duck house would provide more space for more treasure than a Wren House. Also, one of Silent Bob's own multi-stage caches (the first stage) is hidden 9' off the ground in a hollow portion of a branch "On Top of Old Smoeky." Twice I almost fell/slipped (snow&ice) while precariously balancing myself as I entered the coordinates into my GPS. It was difficult enough climbing the tree so that a geocacher is more likely going to try to write down the coordinates or enter them into the GPS while up in the tree instead of climbing back down and then back up to replace the micro cache. There are more than a few geocachers that enjoy the privacy of geocaching alone. Besides a person could still fall and get injured even if they were with a team. A good percentage of geocachers are children (under 18). What if a child fell and got hurt and the parents decided to take legal action against MnGCA, and its Vice President, [name removed]. Because of Mr. [name removed]'s precedence setting eXample I found myself climbing another tree 2 days ago to peer into a hollow portion of a branch that was 10' off the ground. And believe me it was NO easy climb. If it's OK for the V.P. of MnGCA to place a micro cache 9' off the ground than maybe its OK for another premium member to place his cache 10' off the ground.

 

And what about King Boreas and his monopoly on cache placement (632 cache records). He refers to himself as a "maniacal genius" and "King of cache density" for the greater Twin Cities metro area of St. Paul and Minneapolis. I wonder if some of MnGCAs board members and premium members are still just big kids in a man's body. I would appreciate it if Silent Bob would NOT keep locking threads, but rather allow a diversity of constructive criticism by its members.

 

As far as having to implement an "elite" special forces team of Caregivers and Caretakers I agree that the idea borders on overkill. It's my own opinion that some board member's and premium member's elevator may not go all the way to the top floor. Instead of Silent Bob continually locking threads to silence a free eXchange he might consider encouraging constructive discussion that points out any current weaknesses or lapses by MnGCA members so as to maintain and restore the 'Integrity of the Gameplace.' Apparently I'm not the only Minnesota resident that is concerned about what may be a little too lacks-a-daisical oversite by MnGCA.

 

This post was edited by a forum moderator to remove personal information about a geocacher mentioned in the post. From the Forum Guidelines:

Examples of posts that may be edited or deleted include posts containing profanity, chain letter and other spam postings, posts that disclose the tracking number codes for Groundspeak travel bugs or posts that reveal private information about another community member.
Edited by Keystone Approver
Link to comment
Apparently I'm not the only environmentalist concerned about what seems to be a rather free-spirited, hands-off mentality by MnGCA.  I find it a little puzzling that the President of MnGCA is only known as John with no last name or photo as far as I've been able to determine.  I also wonder if Marsha and Silent Bob's ([name removed], V.P. of MnGCA) elevator goes all the way to the top floor.  He apparently sees nothing wrong with a fellow geocacher fiXing an oak birdhouse to a live tree in a city park as an eXtra cute and clever means of hiding a cache container "Bad Old Putty Cat."  Does MnGCA need to establish guidelines for a size limit on the use of bird houses for hiding a cache?  A Wood Duck house would provide more space for more treasure than a Wren House.  Also, one of Silent Bob's  own multi-stage caches (the first stage) is hidden 9' off the ground in a hollow portion of a branch "On Top of Old Smoeky."  Twice I almost fell/slipped (snow&ice) while precariously balancing myself as I entered the coordinates into my GPS.  It was difficult enough climbing the tree so that a geocacher is more likely going to try to write down the coordinates or enter them into the GPS while up in the tree instead of climbing back down and then back up to replace the micro cache.  There are more than a few geocachers that enjoy the privacy of geocaching alone.  Besides a person could still fall and get injured even if they were with a team.  A good percentage of geocachers are children (under 18).  What if a child fell and got hurt and the parents decided to take legal action against MnGCA, and its Vice President, Mr. [name removed].  Because of [his] precedence setting eXample I found myself climbing another tree 2 days ago to peer into a hollow portion of a branch that was 10' off the ground.  And believe me it was NO easy climb.  If it's OK for the V.P. of MnGCA to place a micro cache 9' off the ground than maybe its OK for another premium member to place his cache 10' off the ground.

 

And what about King Boreas and his monopoly on cache placement (632 cache records).  He refers to himself as a "maniacal genius" and "King of cache density" for the greater Twin Cities metro area of St. Paul and Minneapolis.  I wonder if some of MnGCAs board members and premium members are still just big kids in a man's body.  I would appreciate it if Silent Bob would NOT keep locking threads, but rather allow a diversity of constructive criticism by its members.

 

As far as having to implement an "elite" special forces team of Caregivers and Caretakers I agree that the idea borders on overkill.  It's my own opinion that some board member's and premium member's elevator may not go all the way to the top floor.  Instead of Silent Bob continually locking threads to silence a free eXchange he might consider encouraging constructive discussion that points out any current weaknesses or lapses by MnGCA members so as to maintain and restore the 'Integrity of the Gameplace.'  Apparently I'm not the only Minnesota resident that is concerned about what may be a little too lacks-a-daisical oversite by MnGCA.

Wow, you've got some issues that have nothing to do with any caching organizaton or site. I suppose rock-climbing caches should be banned because someone might fall? Puh-leaze!

Cachers all over the world place both easy and hard caches. We're not going to limit them just because some people can't handle it.

The MnGCA does not force you to go out and hunt caches above your skill level. You make that choice for yourself.

Edited by Keystone Approver
Link to comment

Good Grief!!! I cannot believe I am reading this thread. Talk about over-thinking, and over-stepping. I'll take care of my own caches, thank you very much. Most cachers I know are environmentally aware. Most, I know, take care of their caches, and we don't need any cache police or cache nazis (there I said it) to help us. Sure, we get a few who don't get it, but we teach them, without some secret club.

 

I take it you have not yet tried a 5 terrain cache? If you cannot climb a tree, stick to 1 and 2 terrain rated caches. The one you mentioned is a 3 terrain, and it is rated correctly. There are caches out there that are far more difficult to reach than on a few feet up in a tree!

 

Furthermore, posting someone's full name in the forums is totally uncalled for, and probably against the forum guidelines! I would hope you see the error of your ways and edit it out., Along with the post you made to his cache. How would you feel if your real name were put out on the world wide web? That's just rude.

 

Ay yi yi yi yi! <_<

 

(urge to write a few other terse lines controlled to keep my warning meter down)

Link to comment
Apparently I'm not the only Minnesota resident that is concerned about what may be a little too lacks-a-daisical oversite by MnGCA.

Not so apparent to me. I smell dirty socks. Of course someone as smart as you would know that posting under a fake account could get both accounts banned. I would also think someone as smart as you would understand that geocaching.com has nothing to do with the MnGCA site, and nobody here can do a thing about what happens there (nor do I think anyone cares).

Link to comment

I believe MnGCA is short-sighted in looking out for its own self-serving interests for fear that more rules and restrictions will be a determent to its own goals. Instead the board of MnGCA should take the lead in running a tighter ship instead of giving everyone the impression that all is well and under control.

 

Because of my efforts we learned that the owner of "Barn Byewater" had "sold her GPS" and had "lost interest" in geocaching. We learned that she wanted someone to adopt her "Barn Byewater" cache. Maybe, her conscience was getting the best of her. This is the first winter in who knows how long that all hiking trails on Barn Bluff (Red Wing, MN) have been closed because of hikers becoming stranded on the precarious Northside Bluff Trail. The geocache on Barn Bluff is located near the head of the Northside Bluff Trail which is now chained off. Three hikers have gotten stranded on this trail earlier this month before it was closed. One hiker was stranded for 26 hours and lucky he didn't fall 50' onto the RR tracks. He was saved by a small tree that stopped his fall. If Lenny Strusz, Deputy Director of Public Works for the city of Red Wing knew that there was a geocache near the head of the Northside Bluff Trail you'd better believe that he would ban geocaches from Barn Bluff. It wasn't that long ago that a child feel to her death in the same vicinity since the "Barn Byewater" cache was placed.

 

It is appalling that the board of MnGCA has its head stuck in the sand instead of looking out for the greater good of a community. I get the impression that the last thing a MnGCA board member would do is to talk with Lenny Strusz to see if it is OK to maintain the current geocache on Barn Bluff. What price does MnGCA place on its own geocaching interests even it a geocache directly or indirectly endangers the lives of others?

Link to comment

Freeze! It's the Cache police! Come out with your GPS up! C'mon..I agree, someone sounds like they have mental issues here....eXtreme mental issues. If you are unable to do a cache because it is too high, too slippery, too hard, (insert favorite whine here), then turn around and find another cache. We are not your baby sitter. By your logic, every cache should be wheel chair accessable. This is why we have terrain ratings. Go find another hobby. I find it odd that your original log post on one of the caches you are whining about had nothing negative to say. You waited until several days later to post the "concern" with the dangers. Sounds like a bunch of kindergarten BS to me.

Link to comment

It is appalling that the board of MnGCA has its head stuck in the sand instead of looking out for the greater good of a community. I get the impression that the last thing a MnGCA board member would do is to talk with Lenny Strusz to see if it is OK to maintain the current geocache on Barn Bluff. What price does MnGCA place on its own geocaching interests even it a geocache directly or indirectly endangers the lives of others?

Like I said, why do you keep mention MnGCA? They have nothing to do with this site, and they have nothing to do with the caches listed on this site. They don't list them, they don't review them, they can't unlist them. Nothing. They are a group of people in MN that like to geocache, nothing more. I guess you really arent that bright.

Link to comment

and even furthermore!!!!!

The MnGCA has no authority for cache placement.

 

Caches are reviewed by Groundspeak reviewers, who voluntarily work hard and check as thoroughly as possible, before approving caches. they are in no way connected, or affiliated or associated with the MnGCA.

 

_

/_

/_

/_

/_ here's some stairs so you can climb down off that high horse.

Link to comment
Hello everyone,

 

You need to discuss the topic without questioning the mental capacity of other geocachers.  Please refrain from personal attacks.  Thanks.

But if the dunce cap fits on Xactly one person here(even if that 1 person is posting with 2 accounts), shouldn't he wear it? <_<

Edited by Mopar
Link to comment

OK, so apparently this is really about a cacher's personal disagreement with a local organization board and certain local cachers or caches.

 

The first thing that jumps out at me is that the complaints about caches and cachers are just that: About individual caches and people. Geocaching.com does not subjectively regulate the game. It simply lists caches that meet a set of guidelines. Saftey and such are generally not part of that. If you feel a cache is unsafe, don't do it. If you feel a cache has harmed the environment in some way, contact the owner and tell them your opinion. Perhaps they will agree and perhaps not. If a cache violates a listing guideline, post a should be archived log and/or write to the local reviewer.

 

Likewise, local organizations generally do not dictate cache placement. They really can't since they can't force all local cachers to be members or to do what they dictate. A local organization often exists to provide a social avenue for cachers to meet and assists in working with parks etc. To the extent an organization can affect cache placement, it is really only through suggesting certain philosophies. In many cases there will be disagreement and many organizations would rather be fairly hands off there.

 

Generally, a person or group who comes along and tries to dictate the rules of the game for a specific area will not be very well received. This is especially true if the complaints are about things such as a cache that is viewed as something where a person can get hurt because people are expected to use common sense. If climbing a tree or something else seems dangerous, don't do it. If you do and fall, you freely took the risk. The same is true for certain enviromental concerns. Many would disagree that a bird house nailed to a tree does harm. Others would agree it does. There is no clear correct answer at times and concerns are likley best addressed by politely writing to the cache owner.

 

What definitely seems like a bad idea is trying to set up an organization that will take it upon themselves to alter or remove caches that they subjectively do not like. I get the impression that is what a "caretaker" does? That seems like a good way to quickly become rather reviled by the local caching community. I suggest looking for a more constructive approach.

Link to comment

As geocaching continues to become more mainstream with more members, the odds are there are going to be accidents and even deaths as the result of a bad decision made by a geocacher. There is a local mountain nearby that I like to hike 2 or 3 times a month during the summer and I have probably hiked the summit at least 30 times (there is even a geocache on top) and I have never hurt myself even though there have been a few deaths in the past few years on the same trail I hike. It’s up to the climber to decide his or her ability and make the choice to climb or not. I like to ski and snowboard in the winter, should the ski resorts get rid of the black diamond runs because of accidents and deaths as the result of skiers and boarders skiing beyond their ability? I see no problems with challenging caches as long as they are worded and rated as such.

Link to comment
restore the 'Integrity of the Gameplace.'

 

The creed says "Protect the integrity of the gamepiece" not restore the integrity of the gameplace.

The gameplace would be the planet earth and the gamepiece would be the cache or the travelbug.

 

Another reminder to self - I will start carrying ziplocs, logbooks and pencils.

 

 

<_<

Link to comment
What definitely seems like a bad idea is trying to set up an organization that will take it upon themselves to alter or remove caches that they subjectively do not like. I get the impression that is what a "caretaker" does? That seems like a good way to quickly become rather reviled by the local caching community. I suggest looking for a more constructive approach.
I cringed when I read that there was a local geocaching board with actual board members. Does this mean they hold elections with the geocaching community every year to elect new officers, have monthly board meetings, or even collect dues? I miss the good old days of geocaching where you went to cache to have fun, and if you came across a cache that needed maintenance, you fixed it. Soon I expect to see some group giving out citations and fines and innocent geocachers getting a summons to have to appear in geocaching court (sounds like a great idea for a new reality show). Edited by TahoeJoe
Link to comment
What definitely seems like a bad idea is trying to set up an organization that will take it upon themselves to alter or remove caches that they subjectively do not like. I get the impression that is what a "caretaker" does? That seems like a good way to quickly become rather reviled by the local caching community. I suggest looking for a more constructive approach.
I cringed when I read that there was a local geocaching board with actual board members. Does this mean they hold elections with the geocaching community every year to elect new officers, have monthly board meetings, or even collect dues? I miss the good old days of geocaching where you went to cache to have fun, and if you came across a cache that needed maintenance, you fixed it. Soon I expect to see some group giving out citations and fines and innocent geocachers getting a summons to have to appear in geocaching court (sounds like a great idea for a new reality show).

Many local organizations have boards. I don't think many collect dues, but some might in order to cover costs of events etc. There are also a good number of informal organizations. For example, Nebraska formally organized Nebraskache when we started having to deal with some park systems. The non-profit formal organization seems to lend some credibilty with land owners. Also, having a board helps assure that some people are responsible for getting the work done, such as planning events etc. Often members want to attend events but not do the underlying work. That is fine, but without a board who is responsible for organizing things sometimes it is like pulling teeth to actually get it done.

 

Anyway, what I was refering to in the part you quoted was the idea the original poster suggested of some sort of covert group/organization that would apparently take action on caches. That is wildly different from the standard local organization which generally does not do that type of thing.

Link to comment

My, My, My, My, My! What have I gone and done.

 

Do most geocachers really believe that protecting their gamepiece is more important than protecting the gameplace environment? Some of your comments remind me of the free wheeling attitude of a few Hells Angels bikers that I used to know in North Minneapolis.

 

And we don't need any Caretakers or Caregivers? I'm not talking about spoilers unless of course you happen to have a Hells Angels outlook on rules and regulations. The new Code of Ethics clearly says, Not endanger myself or others Does it not mean what it says and says what it means? After reading some of your replies I see it is not well received whole heartedly by all geocachers.

 

It only takes a few Hells Angels to intimidate the President of MnGCA. Then again maybe he is one of them. According to eaglexplore the members of MnGCA only know him as John or JT with no last name or photo.

 

Gosh, do you think Markwell is more likely to be a former member of Hells Angels or the Sierra Club?

Link to comment
My, My, My, My, My! What have I gone and done.

 

Do most geocachers really believe that protecting their gamepiece is more important than protecting the gameplace environment? Some of your comments remind me of the free wheeling attitude of a few Hells Angels bikers that I used to know in North Minneapolis.

 

And we don't need any Caretakers or Caregivers? I'm not talking about spoilers unless of course you happen to have a Hells Angels outlook on rules and regulations. The new Code of Ethics clearly says, Not endanger myself or others Does it not mean what it says and says what it means? After reading some of your replies I see it is not well received whole heartedly by all geocachers.

 

It only takes a few Hells Angels to intimidate the President of MnGCA. Then again maybe he is one of them. According to eaglexplore the members of MnGCA only know him as John or JT with no last name or photo.

 

Gosh, do you think Markwell is more likely to be a former member of Hells Angels or the Sierra Club?

Every cacher is a "caretaker/caregiver". They don't have to join your club just to do so. Every cacher is responsible for their own actions and impacts to the environment.

 

Some cachers don't maintain their caches. No local group, geocaching site, or secret club is going to change that. There will always be a few bad apples.

 

Geocachers in general are reponsible people. They don't purposely place caches where someone is likely to get hurt. They don't purposely place caches to harm the environment. Accidents happen! It's your job to watch out for your own safety. It's your job to make sure you aren't damaging the environment when hunting a cache. The cache itself does not damage the environment in any way. It's an inanimate object! How could it do any damage?

 

The responsibility lies with each of us, not with some organization that has no control over our individual actions.

Link to comment
My, My, My, My, My!  What have I gone and done.

 

Do most geocachers really believe that protecting their gamepiece is more important than protecting the gameplace environment?  Some of your comments remind me of the free wheeling attitude of a few Hells Angels bikers that I used to know in North Minneapolis.

 

And we don't need any Caretakers or Caregivers?  I'm not talking about spoilers unless of course you happen to have a Hells Angels outlook on rules and regulations.  The new Code of Ethics clearly says, Not endanger myself or others Does it not mean what it says and says what it means?  After reading some of your replies I see it is not well received whole heartedly by all geocachers.

 

It only takes a few Hells Angels to intimidate the President of MnGCA.  Then again maybe he is one of them.  According to eaglexplore the members of MnGCA only know him as John or JT with no last name or photo.

 

Gosh, do you think Markwell is more likely to be a former member of Hells Angels or the Sierra Club?

Well that is were there is room for disagreement. I could place a cache in a dangerous spot. I think that if I put it somewhere with a hidden danger and never warned people of the danger that I would have clearly violated the code and just generally behaved poorly. But if I choose to put a cache in a spot that could cause a person to fall or get injured if they do not have the skills or equipment to retrieve it and if I make that clear through my cache rating and warnings etc, then I have not put them in unknown danger. If they choose to go after a cache that they have been told requires special abilities or equipment that they don't have, especially when they can see that for themselves when they get there, then they have put themselves in danger, not me.

 

I also don't read the code as being intended as an enforcement tool. I read it as a list of suggested conduct. I do not believe it is the role of listing sites or local organizations to take action against caches simply because someone decides they don't like it. At most, a cache that violates listing guidelines at a various site can be removed/archived by the site(s). To force a personal view/dislike of specific caches on points where there is disagreement by unilateral action is pretty distasteful to me. I am assuming that is what you wish to do? You have not been very clear on that point.

Edited by carleenp
Link to comment
Many local organizations have boards. I don't think many collect dues, but some might in order to cover costs of events etc. There are also a good number of informal organizations. For example, Nebraska formally organized Nebraskache when we started having to deal with some park systems. The non-profit formal organization seems to lend some credibilty with land owners. Also, having a board helps assure that some people are responsible for getting the work done, such as planning events etc. Often members want to attend events but not do the underlying work. That is fine, but without a board who is responsible for organizing things sometimes it is like pulling teeth to actually get it done.
All of this is fine and dandy to help promote and keep the integrity of the game going, we even have a group I support in our area that does the same thing.
As a board member of the Minnesota Geocaching Association, I invite this individual to talk with us if he has any concerns about the quality, upkeep or legality of caches in the state of Minnesota.
That statement lead me to believe that the Minnesota Geocaching Association represents all of the geocachers in the state of Minnesota. I would take offense if someone in my area were to make a statement like that without the support or consensus of all of the other geocachers in my area (or state)! Edited by TahoeJoe
Link to comment
My, My, My, My, My! What have I gone and done.

 

What have you done. you ask? You have singlehandedly, with your very first post, alienated a whole group of people who were having fun until you came along. and tried to change the game with guidelines already in place, which we all must agree to prior to placing a cache. Everyone ahead of me has said it very well. We are all responsible for our actions, and for our own safety.

 

If you cannot go prepared and bring along a pair of crampons or yaktraks so you don't slip on the ice and snow, then don't go climbing in ice and snow.

 

If the cache is underwater and you can't swim, well by golly, don't jump in.

 

If the cache is up a cliff and you are afraid of heights and have no climbing gear, don't go up there.

 

If the cache requires a boat, don't drive to it.

 

If the cache requires you to parachute in and raft out, and you have neither, don't leave the safety of the aircraft and don't enter the river.

 

If the cache is in a hole, don't just reach right in. Look first. Poke around.

 

If the cache is hidden in a stone wall, do not start moving rocks around, look with your eyes, not your hands.

 

If the ziplock is ripped and you do not have one, simply post a note on the cache page and it's up to the owner to go fix it.

 

If the pencil is broken and you have a sharpener, sharpen the pencil, or let the owner know so the owner can maintain it.

 

If the cache is broken and leaking, tell the owner in your log, so the owner can maintain it.

 

If the cache is missing, tell the owner, so the owner can replace it.

 

If the cache has food in it, take it out.

 

If there is damage to the landscape, let the hider know.

 

Do you get my point now? It is up to the owner to maintain, and the seeker to choose his limits. It is not up to some wannabe hall monitor to come along and start policing how this is done. We all take care of ourselves.

Link to comment
My, My, My, My, My!  What have I gone and done.

 

What have you done. you ask? You have singlehandedly, with your very first post, alienated a whole group of people who were having fun until you came along. and tried to change the game with guidelines already in place, which we all must agree to prior to placing a cache. Everyone ahead of me has said it very well. We are all responsible for our actions, and for our own safety.

 

If you cannot go prepared and bring along a pair of crampons or yaktraks so you don't slip on the ice and snow, then don't go climbing in ice and snow.

 

If the cache is underwater and you can't swim, well by golly, don't jump in.

 

If the cache is up a cliff and you are afraid of heights and have no climbing gear, don't go up there.

 

If the cache requires a boat, don't drive to it.

 

If the cache requires you to parachute in and raft out, and you have neither, don't leave the safety of the aircraft and don't enter the river.

 

If the cache is in a hole, don't just reach right in. Look first. Poke around.

 

If the cache is hidden in a stone wall, do not start moving rocks around, look with your eyes, not your hands.

 

If the ziplock is ripped and you do not have one, simply post a note on the cache page and it's up to the owner to go fix it.

 

If the pencil is broken and you have a sharpener, sharpen the pencil, or let the owner know so the owner can maintain it.

 

If the cache is broken and leaking, tell the owner in your log, so the owner can maintain it.

 

If the cache is missing, tell the owner, so the owner can replace it.

 

If the cache has food in it, take it out.

 

If there is damage to the landscape, let the hider know.

 

Do you get my point now? It is up to the owner to maintain, and the seeker to choose his limits. It is not up to some wannabe hall monitor to come along and start policing how this is done. We all take care of ourselves.

Well said, Planet!!! Thank you for spelling it out in such a way that even a child could understand

Link to comment

Why is it that state organizations have additional guidelines?

Why was it necessary for a Code of Ethics that was finalized on 12/23/04?

 

It should be apparent that there are geocachers with a Hells Angels mentality. It only takes a few to ruin the hard work and admirable efforts of others that do believe that the integrity of the gameplace and safety is more important than the integrity of the gamepiece.

 

Some of you have it all backwards and place too great an importance on your own prized Tupperware treasure, 2x6 pogs, cammo ammo and micros and sacred hiding place. Don't you see the hand writing on the wall? It reminds me of those days when there were only a few ten-four good buddies. Then the air waves became crowded with crosstalk and interference.

 

Yes we all need to be Caretakers and Caregivers like never before because it only takes a few to ruin it for everyone. Unfortunately there are getting to be too many geocachers in a densely populated area like St. Paul and Minneapolis and it will only get worst. MnGCA needs to forget about the good old days of what once was when geocaching could function pretty well on a do your own thing mind warp. MnGCA needs to get their act together before its too late as it's already later than they realize.

 

Geocachers need to be more responsible than ever. It's a completely different ballgame today compared to 2002. Having a great looking website with savvy systems analysts and designers is just the start. We need to accept the fact that those that will eventually have the final say are not impressed by geocachers that think the integrity of their gamepiece is more important than the integrity of the gameplace.

Link to comment
Unfortunately there are getting to be too many geocachers in a densely populated area like St. Paul and Minneapolis and it will only get worst. MnGCA needs to forget about the good old days of what once was when geocaching could function pretty well on a do your own thing mind warp. MnGCA needs to get their act together before its too late as it's already later than they realize.

 

The sky is falling! The sky is falling! <_<

Link to comment
Why is it that state organizations have additional guidelines?

Who cares if the state "organization" has additional guidelines?

 

If I want a cache listed on Geocaching.com, I have to follow the rules of Geocaching.com. I don't have to go check the website for my state's group and make sure it's ok with them.

 

Now, if the land managers for your parks says "no" to geocaching there, you aren't going to get a cache listed on this site.

 

Where does your state group come in? they aren't involved in getting caches listed or unlisted on this site.

 

Why is there a state group then? Well, when a land manager says "no" to geocaching, sometimes they will listen to a geocaching organization. Groups like the MnGCA have more clout than an individual geocacher. Sometimes they can get that land manager to change his mind by educating him about geocaching. It's far easier to do that locally than over the Internet. That's the benefit of having a state (or local) geocaching group.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...