Why?

[nolenator]

Earlier this week I asked a fellow cacher to remove a cache that was on private property. On the bottom of the cache page two little boxes must be checked before the cache can be submitted. Please read them and follow them.

 

Yes. I have read and understand the guidelines for listing a cache.

 

Yes. I have read and agree to the terms of use agreement..

 

It really brings up a bigger question I have to ask my fellow cachers. Why are you placing a cache in a certain location? How many times have you found a cache on a lamp post in a parking lot and said why?

 

Peace, Nolenator

Edited January 27, 2005 by nolenator

[+bazzle]

I often find myself asking this very same question. Can anyone explain to me exactly what it is about a traffic circle in the middle of a neighborhood street that makes people want to place a cache there???

[+xy,xx,xy,xy,xy,xy]

How many time have you found a cache on a lamp post in a parking lot?

Here in Wenatchee? Only once. And only very recently.

[+chubby forest monkey]

As many of those hiders write in the cache descriptions themselves..." because this place didn't have a cache".....

 

What I think they really mean: "I don't know of any interesting places that don't already have a cache and I'm too lazy to do the research to find someplace special, but I want to have a cache of my own."

[+Allanon]

There are a couple threads similar to this also open over in the Geocaching Topics forum...

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=89518

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=89594

 

Those two are near the top, but there are probably many more on the other pages...

 

Seems to be a popular topic lately...

[+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite]

Same ole whine

 

Why under a lampost? Because it's there?

 

We have a local cacher who in all honesty can't get much more than that. He is post polio and getting weaker.

 

I have a suggestion, click on the map, see that it is right there by WalMart? Then don't go find it.

 

I don't like puzzle caches and I don't find them to be an enjoyable part of the game but guess what, I just don't do them.

[+Renegade Knight]

I place caches in locations entirely because that's the location I chose. There is no better reason. Some locations are good, some bad, some in the middle, all struck me for some reason.

[+Barnabirdy(s)]

How many time have you found a cache on a lamp post in a parking lot?

Here in Wenatchee? Only once. And only very recently.

But AT LEAST it was a puzzle. And we had searched for something more original - like a nice, scenic guradrail.

[+Stump]

I've been considering placing a lamppost hide here. There aren't any others around, I'm not sure where the closest one is I can't think of any within at least 40 miles (are there any in Olympia or Vancouver?). I remember the first time I found one there I thought it was pretty cool. And the first couple are pretty cool. Unfortunately, they're easy to hide and spawn copycats. Same with guardrail hides. I have a couple of them (because it was a cool location and there was nowhere else to hide a cache) and I occasionally get remarks about what a great hide they are.

 

Just because we've found a dozen caches in lampposts and guardrails doesn't mean the majority of cachers have.

 

As far as the larger question of why I choose to put a cache in a certain location sometimes it's because it's a great spot I found sometimes it's because it's an out of the way spot that we can futz around in but would have no other reason to go if not for a cache. And sometimes just because a certain area needs more caches.

[+TotemLake]

(are there any in Olympia or Vancouver?).

Yes. At least one was on the cache machine in Snolympia.

[+CurmudgeonlyGal]

Stump wrote:

....guardrail hides. I have a couple of them (because it was a cool location and there was nowhere else to hide a cache) and I occasionally get remarks about what a great hide they are.

 

Bruceport was COOL?

 

The only thing cool about that cache was the hint.

 

 

I've been considering placing a lamppost hide here. There aren't any others around, I'm not sure where the closest one is I can't think of any within at least 40 miles (are there any in Olympia or Vancouver?).

 

There is an atypical lampost hide in Olympia - it's that little power box outside of ToysRn'tUs.

 

TravisL has one in Tacoma.

 

There was one that has disappeared in Centrailia.

 

I'm sure there are more.

 

 

-=-

m

[+WeightMan]

There is a cache in Federal Way, which shall remain nameless, that I have not one, but two DNFs on. I will not have a third because I have decided that the only reason I would go to that particular park again is to find this cache and that is not reason enough. The area of the cache is not at all scenic, it is trashy with old beer bottles, and not that much different from any other wooded area near a city.

 

Now a cache like SG #55 - View Point - Wow is in a spot that will draw people back for the view. Not every cache will be like this one of Pepper's, but we can strive to place caches more like that one rather than the light pole caches. I've found seven light pole caches and they are no longer anything special or difficult. The first one was hard, but the rest were too easy.

[+Shop99er]

Mrs. 99er here....

 

I'm not sure if the issue is lampost/traffic circle caches or caches that aren't a little harder or more well thought out for the seasoned cacher.

 

When the Mr. and I started caching we felt pretty dang happy that we found a 'nearly laying on the ground with a neon arrow pointing to it' cache. Now that we have a few under our belt we enjoy the ones that are a little harder but I have to tell you...after a long day of caching..we're covered with mud, sticks are wadded up in my hair and someone is probably bleeding...we STILL enjoy getting that 1/1 "even my blind grandmother could find it" cache. No offence to anyone's blind grandmother....

 

I think it's a case of what do YOU find interesting. What do YOU think is a fun cache. If you don't like lamp post caches. Don't do them. If you don't like 5 mile hikes up a mountan. Don't do them. But don't poo-poo people who do enjoy them or those who place them.

 

For me, if someone took the time and effort to place a cache, and it's within the area I'm caching...I'll go get it. It seems the polite cacher thing to do.

 

And just for the record, we have a couple lame 'blind grandmother' caches placed. We have thought about changing them to something a little harder, something that is in-line with our level of caching, but when we receive notes that say, basically, 'THANK GOODNESS..after a day of DNFs it was nice to actually find one' ...well, as long as people enjoy finding them, we'll keep them where they are and as is.

 

.....what was the question again? *smirk*

[+Renegade Knight]

...after a long day of caching..we're covered with mud, sticks are wadded up in my hair and someone is probably bleeding...we STILL enjoy getting that 1/1 "even my blind grandmother could find it" cache. No offence to anyone's blind grandmother.......

After 5 skunks in a row I have to admit I will make a beeline for the lamppost cache just to feel good about finding something...

[+NomadRaven]

Why? Because you can't please everybody. Plain and simple.

 

(Although I definitely do agree, placing a cache on private property without permission is not a good thing.)

 

I was at a cache event at some point last year where one of the people at a table near me was commenting about how selfish it is to be a geocacher if you're not going to hide some caches, too. At this point, ironically, I hadn't hidden any caches yet.

 

Some of us just aren't very creative, don't have a lot of predictable time to create/maintain a cache, or don't know the area as well as people who have lived here longer. Having to choose between hiding a lame, cliche cache and getting criticized for it or being viewed as selfish for not hiding any caches at all makes for a very not-fun hobby.

 

My one cache hide is totally lame, but you know what? A couple of new caching families found it after Christmas and enjoyed it. That made me smile.

 

One thing I like about geocaching is that there's something for everybody. I try to appreciate every cache I find, regardless of how I feel about its hide. I have so much more fun that way.

 

Not trying to lecture, just offering a different perspective.

[+blindleader]

It seems the bulk of this thread is on a subject that has been edited out of the original post.

 

The more important issue hasn't been addressed at all - Which cache on private property was being referred to?

[+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite]

oops

Edited January 27, 2005 by Lazyboy & Mitey Mite

[+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite]

oops

Edited January 27, 2005 by Lazyboy & Mitey Mite

[+fauxSteve]

I haven't really wanted to jump into this, simply because I like to enjoy caching and not get too bogged down in the complaint of the day. I had been following the "lame" thread in the main forum (most recent is this one), and have seen that most of the discussion just comes down to people arguing for what they personally enjoy and calling all other hides lame (“I hate puzzles”, “I hate urban caches”, “I hate hiking in the mud”, ect…). I think several posters have been correct in noting that what may seem lame and common to an experienced cacher (just another magnetic bison capsule or hide-a-key in a guardrail, or perhaps just another ammo can in the woods), can be great for someone who is just having fun out there...

 

Where this discussion got derailed, and I think blindleader was correct in pointing it out, is the issue of private property. "Lame" caches are largely in the eye of the beholder, and further discussion really won't go anywhere interesting. Sure, we should strive for nothing but high quality, but does that mean only mountain hike caches, or only evil hides, or only elaborate urban puzzles? In the city, I like a no-nonsense bison capsule. I know the cache nolenator originally cited, which was in a publicly accessible downtown square that was probably also private property of the high-rise property owners. Not exactly a parking lot, but similar issues of private property. Not an ideal situation to be in, but not as bad as others. But I think there is room to learn: I'm guilty of poor judgment with one that is more damaging to public property than I like and it's been buggin me since before approval--I gotta fix it.

 

If this thread is going to serve a purpose, it should be directed to address ethical cache placement choices, and not just "lameness" based on personal judgment. Afterall, this is a game that ultimately revolves around leaving “trash” out in "public"

 

[edited to change "hoking" to "hiking" - but I'm sure people hate "hoking in the mud" too.]

Edited January 27, 2005 by fauxSteve

[+WeightMan]

There have been some caches that I chose not to pursue because I felt that they were on private property and likely without permission. I have done a few caches on private property, but the situation was clearly laid out on the cache page. I just don't feel comfortable caching on private property and will choose not to in most situations. The problem comes up because, although the property manager may have given permission, I doubt that all employees have been told about it. A cache hidden in a compartment on the topside of a tank outside a California National Guard building was approved by somebody, but recently a cacher was accosted by a sergeant who told him in no uncertain terms, that the cache was not approved and had to be removed. I don't care to put myself in that situation. It appears that somebody with scrambled eggs on his hat said OK, but never told the senior NCO. Now on the other hand, a cache at Anderson Corner in Gig Harbor is listed as being on private property and, in fact an espresso stand is within viewing range. In this case someone in my group actually asked the barista for a clue and was told "I am not a muggle." End of clue, but she had a good laugh at our efforts. That was fun.

 

While I may have railed about lame caches above, I agree with those who followed my comments. I can choose not to do the light pole cache if I want to. I choose not to do T5 caches in general. Some of those may well be very good caches, but I'm not doing them. It would help though, if GC.com would come up with some way to indicate that I choose to ignore a caches. I can do it in GSAK. My closest not found cache is listed as a mystery, but is really a virtual cache. I don't care to do it and will not. I can't get it off of my closest to list though.

[+Stump]

Bruceport was COOL?

 

There is an atypical lampost hide in Olympia - it's that little power box outside of ToysRn'tUs.

Bruceport is the coolEST.

 

I thought about the one at Toys R Us but it's not really a typical lamppost hide.

 

I also have to agree with RK. I'll admit that a few times I've been out and had a miserable time finding (or not finding) a couple (or more than a couple) and chucked the "good" ones and looked for the words really easy to find or for micros in retail areas.

[+xy,xx,xy,xy,xy,xy]

Here in Wenatchee? Only once. And only very recently.

But AT LEAST it was a puzzle. And we had searched for something more original - like a nice, scenic guradrail.

I wasn't trying to trash any lamp post (or guard rail) caches. Merely commenting that what may be old hat to some people or some areas may be new, cool and even clever to other people or other areas.

[+The Jester]

It really brings up a bigger question I have to ask my fellow cachers. Why are you placing a cache in a certain location? How many times have you found a cache on a lamp post in a parking lot and said why?

To answer the question asked, which why?

 

"Why was it hidden here?" I have no idea why they chose here, but I found it.

 

"Why am I hunting it?" Becasue it's in the area that I'm hunting caches currently. Or should that be 'because it's there'?

 

Or to be generic "why?" - 'why not?'

[nolenator]

It seems the bulk of this thread is on a subject that has been edited out of the original post.

 

The more important issue hasn't been addressed at all - Which cache on private property was being referred to?

I never included the name of the cache in my original post, it was edited for poor spelling and grammar. My main reason for starting this thread was to challenge people to think about why a cache was hidden in a particular spot other than just "because". I always try to hide caches in interesting spots that I think people would like to visit.

 

Peace, Nolenator

[fishiam]

Earlier this week I asked a fellow cacher to remove a cache that was on private property.  On the bottom of the cache page two little boxes must be checked before the cache can be submitted.  Please read them and follow them.

 

Yes. I have read and understand the guidelines for listing a cache. 

 

Yes. I have read and agree to the terms of use agreement..

 

It really brings up a bigger question I have to ask my fellow cachers.  Why are you placing a cache in a certain location?  How many times have you found a cache on a lamp post in a parking lot and said why?

 

Peace, Nolenator

I am relatively new to geocaching and so I have a question concerning this topic. I, too, know the cache which Nolenator is referring to, having been one of the first finders. The location was rather public and certainly required stealth. And, yes, it was public property. But is it always clear what is and isn't public property? Nolenator's most recent cache - an excellent micro titled "Ask Eleanor" is on UW campus near a UW building. Would this be considered public (since UW is a public University) or private (it's not govt. land or building)? I am considering some hides around UW, hence the question. Would hides on SPU campus be forbidden because that is a private university?

 

cheers

fishiam

 

(edited for spelling and clarification)

Edited January 27, 2005 by fishiam

[nolenator]

It is not forbidden to hide caches on private property as long as one gets approval from the property owner. Although some areas may seem public because they can be freely accessed, they are still private property. It is my understanding the UW is like the Seattle Parks Department and as long as it is not permanent or causes damage it is acceptable. Peace, Nolenator

[+Stump]

The light posts people are talking about are almost all on private property. Obviously, you can get approval to put a cache on a privately owned public spot.

 

The UW campus (outside the buildings) is pretty much the same as a park and definitely public property.

 

Using Criminal's frisbee rule it's fine to hide caches at UW. I've played frisbee there with no problems. Same with SPU, assuming they play frisbee there too.

Edited January 27, 2005 by Stump

[+leatherman]

Luckily for me most lamp poles and guard rails are micros. Which I filter out in my quaries.

[+Mopar]

I've got a semi-recent philosophy that is serving me well. When I think I want to hide a new cache I ask myself 2 questions.

• If I was trying to recruit a newbie to become a geocacher, would I bring him to this cache as an example of what I enjoy about geocaching?
  
• If a TV news crew was doing a story on geocaching, is this the cache I would pick to bring them to?
  

If either answer is no, I don't hide it.

[+leatherman]

I've got a semi-recent philosophy that is serving me well. When I think I want to hide a new cache I ask myself 2 questions.

• If I was trying to recruit a newbie to become a geocacher, would I bring him to this cache as an example of what I enjoy about geocaching?
  
• If a TV news crew was doing a story on geocaching, is this the cache I would pick to bring them to?
  

If either answer is no, I don't hide it.

If I brought my friend and his/her tribe of rug rats, would they enjoy finding it?

[+Navdog]

It really brings up a bigger question I have to ask my fellow cachers.  Why are you placing a cache in a certain location?  How many times have you found a cache on a lamp post in a parking lot and said why?

 

Peace, Nolenator

I haven't found a lamp post hide yet. I'm sure there is one lurking out there near me. When I do find one, it won't be the one I'll remember a few years from now. What I will remember are the caches that have challenged and frustrated me.

 

The best you can do is lead by example and hopefully instill a little insipiration in other cachers.

[+slinger91]

I look at geocaching with the same philosophy I do with another pastime of mine.

 

"The worst cache I ever had...I mean found, was Great!"

 

So what if it's under a lamppost in a Wallyworld parking lot. At least your not at work, or in jail. When I feel like hitting a bunch of caches in one day, I'll try anything. When I want to hit a cool spot that probably has a great view and a nice hike, I just pick the one. As someone mentioned before, there's something for everyone.

[+The Navigatorz]

But AT LEAST it was a puzzle. And we had searched for something more original - like a nice, scenic guradrail.

The lamp post cache referred to here was unique and enjoyable. First, the cache was a multi, and the first waypoint was at a scenic viewpoint. Then there was the challenge of figuring out the puzzle. Finally, the lampost, but...there was a unique twist there also. Barnabirdy's have proven that lamp post caches don't have to be boring. Wrap-It-Up

[+Navdog]

[+LittleBlue]

ROTFLOL!I'm sure that's *just* what we all look like!

[+Square Bear]

Some times people also have to learn from their mistakes. Our first hide was a micro in the woods. We had probably about 30 finds at the time and was just dieing to put out one of our own, after gaining a little more experience we realized that a regular cache could be put in that spot. We went out and got a proper cache container (a lock and lock) since an ammo can would have been just to big for the location, and replaced it.

I’ve read the rules but you can always miss something. On the last series we did, the reviewer asked me about the placement of one of the micros in the series. I knew about not placing it next to railroad tracks but had completely skipped over the part about 150 ft. The park was only about 100ft wide from the road to the railroad tracks and there was no way I could place it in that park and be 150 ft away from the tracks. I had scoped out a couple of more location just in case there was a problem with one of them and moved it there the next day.

Basically we all make mistakes, were the problem comes in is if we don’t learn from them.

In this area we don't have the cache saturation that some areas do, so we welcome any cache. I think the definition of lame has to not only be perspective, but also experience level and the saturation of caches in your area.

[+Prying Pandora]

LOL! I wonder if that's MGTS.

[+LittleBlue]

As to the original point about the private property caches, I admit I'm a bit fuzzy on the differences between public and private. I've seen a number of caches in parking lots for businesses- private property I would guess. Should they be removed? Dunno. There's lots of other things I try to think about when I place a cache- like will this freak muggles out to see people looking around for the cache? I know others don't worry about that at all . I think micros are fun- I like the challenge of it. I also like ammo boxes in pretty places. I remember the first time I found a light post cache- I was just amazed by it. Now, of course, it's harder to come across a hide that's unique, but it's always great when I do. With ammo boxes, it's more about the location than the hide. And puzzle caches are usually about the fun of figuring out the coords more than the cache itself. Sure, I've run across some caches that were lame or gross or boring, but at least I was outside and not stuck indoors somewhere.

 

But now I also admit that it's been a while since I read the guidelines and will go back and look at them again today. I'm still learning as a cacher and I hope that my hides will continue to improve. It's a lot of fun to hunt caches, but there's something special about reading a log from a cache that you've placed.

[+evergreenhiker!]

LOL! I wonder if that's MGTS.

LOL. Yes I agree! Those shoes look foxy! LOL