Trading Up...

January 26, 2005

Ive been wondering how many people try to trade up when geocaching.

ive visited a few caches that listed the original contents - then some months later, the contents resemble nothing like what was originally deposited.

Used bus tickets, nails, expired membership cards etc, - how can these sort of item be a fair swap?

If i place a cache with what i consider to be useful and desirable items, how long can i expect that cache to exist before it is replaced with rubbish?

Would it be a fair request to all visitors of my caches, that they trade up, or take nothing?

Has anyone tried this, and has it worked or not??

18.9k · January 26, 2005

I've asked for this on most of my caches and I still end up with mostly junk after 30 visitors or so. I always try to trade fair value or up but mostly I just keep going to the dollar store so I can clean the junk out and drop off a few newer nicer items. There are, of course, execptions to this - one of my caches that has been out for 2.5 years is constantly stocked with 3 to 5 dollar items that have been traded in. You can ask and I do but realistically don't expect 100% participation. I figure it only takes 1 person in 25 to clean out the good and leave junk and then all future visitors trade evenly with new junk.

24.7k · January 26, 2005

As good as it gets is that you are not part of the problem.

I let my caches trade up or down at random and usually they go down but every now and then they go up. Some people think that's being a bad steward and I should go add more spiffy stuff every now and then. But I have more fun hiding another cache and starting it fresh than playing Martha Stewart on an existing one.

January 26, 2005

I myself like to just usually sign the log book and look for travel bugs. Trading material doesnt tickle me much. I do try to leave something when I can, as it is a part of the guidelines. Most likely 80% or more of the current 139502 active caches in 214 countries contain basically worthless trinkets. It's the way of the game I guess. The contents never ruin my hunt for a cache though. I dont imagine that it will get better either unless we all win the lottery or the government decides to eliminate all taxes..... :grin:

January 26, 2005

Perhaps the problem is that people aren't researching your cache before they get to it? I often have my GPS on when driving around and have loaded cache waypoints within a 20 mi radius of my home. When I read up on them (via Cachemate on my Palm), it is usually when I'm near by and unlikely to turn around because I don't have particular trade items...I'll just TNLN.

So, perhaps reserve your "quality item" caches for remote locations? Or include a puzzle they have to solve in the description. That way they are more likely to read your requirements re: trade items.

GeoBC

January 26, 2005

We left a couple of lame items in our first two micros because we were ill prepared for the size of the cache. Our second find was an altoids tin and we had nothing that small to trade with. The kids couldn't be contained and just "had to have" something out of it or we would have TNLN. I did go back and replace our lame item with 3 better ones to make up for it. But being unprepared for the size of the container can cause people to put lame items in it. We now have a bag with small stuff for micros and bigger stuff for other containers.

January 26, 2005

My experience has also been that caches tend to trade downward as a whole. If people would only go to yard sales when they are out caching on the weekend - they can find plenty of neat stuff to trade and it will end up being less exspensive than the dollar stores. MS

38.2k · January 27, 2005

My experience has also been that caches tend to trade downward as a whole. If people would only go to yard sales when they are out caching on the weekend - they can find plenty of neat stuff to trade and it will end up being less exspensive than the dollar stores. MS

If it were only people buying dollar store stuff it wouldn't be an issue. It's gum wrappers, toy soldiers chewn by the family dog, metro cards with no rides left, the leg from a Barbie, expired Sanka coupons and the like that annoy people.

Heck I remember finding a pair of heavily uses work gloves, complete with holes in the fingers. WTF is with that?

2.4k · January 27, 2005

I've found dirty socks with holes in them.

Face it, it's a box in a public place, and people are people; more are getting into this every day, and the deterioration is inevitable. Worrying about it is something I just don't have time for.

January 27, 2005

metro cards with no rides left

Well, depending on the city they are for, they could be worth a $1 even if they are empty. LOL! Some areas charge for the card so you can put your rides on them. But yes, it is lame and so is the other stuff you mentioned. I was feeling bad about considering putting McToys in there but in some caches they would be a major improvement. Someone was excited about a working McVideoGame. I have tons of those things. I think they are fun LOL

January 27, 2005

Heck I remember finding a pair of heavily uses work gloves, complete with holes in the fingers. WTF is with that?

Modified version of Cache In Trash Out, called Move Trash Into Cache.

Jan

Edited January 27, 2005 by JanniCash

22k · January 27, 2005

I don't think it takes too many people to 'downgrade' a cache.

I blame Endorphins.

You find a really good deal for trade items and then you find an item in a cache you like even better.

What to do? Unfortunately we can only be responsible for ourselves.

I guess you could start a cache that you make it a requirement that cachers specifically log their trades. But I think that would only delay the inevitable for a short time.

(I have seen torn ticket stubs left as trade items.)

January 27, 2005

I live and cache near Washington, DC. We seem to get a lot of vacation geocachers because it is not uncommon to find hotel key cards and hotel shampoo and hand lotion in caches near the city.

BlueDuece - - I have been watching your rotating avatars and I like this latest one the best.

22k · January 27, 2005

BlueDuece - - I have been watching your rotating avatars and I like this latest one the best.

I hope the pic is evil enough to contrast with the title. :grin:

Edit: oops, changed again.

Edited January 27, 2005 by BlueDeuce

2.1k · January 27, 2005

It's the way of the game I guess. The contents never ruin my hunt for a cache though.

That sums it up for me. It is THE HUNT that make this game fun.

2.5k · January 27, 2005

You find a really good deal for trade items and then you find an item in a cache you like even better.

I carry a brand new t-shirt for this problem with me. It's sealed in plastic and hasn't left my cache pack since I got it. But at least I know I can leave it for an item that's at least worth a couple bucks if I find something that I'd really really like to have.

Ive been wondering how many people try to trade up when geocaching.
ive visited a few caches that listed the original contents - then some months later, the contents resemble nothing like what was originally deposited.

Personally, I wish I had that problem. The biggest thing with being in a city full of big number people is that they hardly even LOOK at what's in the cache, let alone trade for it. Heck, I offered choice of swag for the first person to find my Little China cache and the person TNLNSL. You should have seen the look I got when I actually looked through a cache and traded for a sig item one day. I could have grown a second head and gotten less of a response.

3.9k · January 27, 2005

I guess you could start a cache that you make it a requirement that cachers specifically log their trades. But I think that would only delay the inevitable for a short time.

In Europe (outside the UK), most people seem to have the discpline to explicitly write:

"In: Fabergé Egg

Out: Diamond bracelet"

(like that, two separate lines, away from the rest of the log)

or alternatively just

No Trade

(again, on a line by itself).

Judging by other logs here, we have the same "entropy" problem, but perhaps to a lesser extent.

I think it also depends a little on the cache density. If you're doing a 25-in-a-day cacheathon in a 3 mile radius in a big city, you clearly won't put the same effort into any part of it - including the trades - as if you set out for a 6-hour return trip to a 4/4 which you know is a big ammo box with 5 TBs.

Nick

1.3k · January 27, 2005

At one of my first caches, while reading the logbook, I noticed someone had written, "Left one-hundred dollar bill." The subsequent entry a couple days later, said "Took one-hundred dollar bill, (Thanks!) left matchbox car." Now realistically, I don't believe there WAS a hundred-dollar bill, but if I ever find a big bill left in a cache, (Twenty dollars or higher) I certainly don't have the stuff to trade for it equitably, and I'm pretty sure that I would have a LOT of trouble leaving it in there for the next guy.

Anyway... Here's to hoping that I face this dilemma soon! :unsure:

January 27, 2005

We don't seem to have that problem here in South Africa.

All my caches have been traded well. One one ocassion, the finder took something he obviously desired greatly, left a small trade item, but wrapped it in folding money to make up the trade. :unsure:

Log entries are also written up well, with some cool comments and a couple of lines stating what was taken and what was left (if any trade took place).

Guess we're lucky in a way that geocaching is still relatively new here and there is only a small group of people playing. As and when the game becomes more popular ..... well, we'll wait and see. Hopefully, the new players will follow the examples set by the 'pioneer' cachers.

January 27, 2005

Decide that there won't be anything worth trading for prior to starting out on your cache adventure, and you won't be disappointed when there isn't. After I had been caching for a while, I even stopped leaving "Where's George" dollars, and traded only travel bugs.

January 27, 2005

Thanks for all of your replies to this!

I get the impression that many of us have experienced the same issues regarding trading up.

I would like to suggest that for one thing, the printable notices for caches which geocaching.com provides, should include words to the effect that finders should trade up.

And perhaps all caches should include some wording which requests trading up or taking nothing.

Just a thought, that might reduce the time that some of us spend looking for boxes filled with old tickets and mould! (and who'd wanna drop of a travel bug in a place like that?)

1.3k · January 28, 2005

If everyone traded "up" it would eventually become too expensive to trade anything.

(Took title and keys for Jaguar. Left deed to house.) :blink:

I do try to trade up, but I am able to do this because some people don't. So... looked at from this perspective, I thank God some people leave cheap (but from my sons perspective, cool) trinkets in the caches.

edited for spelling and emoticon <_<

Edited January 28, 2005 by Trinity's Crew

1.6k · January 28, 2005

Trading up wouldn't be necessary if we all accepted that there was a trade floor. I would set this on a cache by cache basis.

Trade item classification:

Group 1: Expensive things (CD's, cameras, radios, SD cards, etc (>$10))

Group 2: Moderately expensive things (AA batteries, good pens, etc ($2-10))

Group 3: Inexpensive things (McToys, cheap pens, low denomination foreign coins, etc (<$2)).

Then we could saysomething like: "Trade only travel bugs, sig items, and Group 2 trade items" on the cache page.

22k · January 28, 2005

You find a really good deal for trade items and then you find an item in a cache you like even better.

I carry a brand new t-shirt for this problem with me. It's sealed in plastic and hasn't left my cache pack since I got it. But at least I know I can leave it for an item that's at least worth a couple bucks if I find something that I'd really really like to have.

Good idea.

Perhaps another problem is that people leave two or three low dollar items to compensate for taking a higher. Then you end up with a cache full of cheap stuff.

Making sure to trade evenly, but only one for one might help.

1.3k · January 28, 2005

Trade item classification:

Group 1: Expensive things (CD's, cameras, radios, SD cards, etc (>$10))

Group 2: Moderately expensive things (AA batteries, good pens, etc ($2-10))

Group 3: Inexpensive things (McToys, cheap pens, low denomination foreign coins, etc (<$2)).

Then we could saysomething like: "Trade only travel bugs, sig items, and Group 2 trade items" on the cache page.

This sounds good. The only drawback I see is that it would make it easy for plunderers to target caches with higher dollar values. As it is now, finding really valuable swag in a cache is usually hit or miss.

1.6k · January 28, 2005

Trade item classification:

Group 1: Expensive things (CD's, cameras, radios, SD cards, etc (>$10))

Group 2: Moderately expensive things (AA batteries, good pens, etc ($2-10))

Group 3: Inexpensive things (McToys, cheap pens, low denomination foreign coins, etc (<$2)).

Then we could saysomething like: "Trade only travel bugs, sig items, and Group 2 trade items" on the cache page.

This sounds good. The only drawback I see is that it would make it easy for plunderers to target caches with higher dollar values. As it is now, finding really valuable swag in a cache is usually hit or miss.

Good point, this might be addressed by the cache placers at the time of placement by making the caches that have really expensive things (a small minority of caches) VERY difficult.

This might improve the odds of caches not getting plundered.

Accidental or unintentional plundering is another thing.

If a family hits a cache and everyone takes something, 2-4 things could be taken. If the family doesn't replace in kind, the cache could be rapidly depleted.

Perhaps a better way would be to discourage really expensive things and encourage trade items to be in a given range ($2-5) or less, but that a per-item trade floor still be in place below which is not acceptable.

Again, as this trade regulation gets more complicated, it may be the best course of action to simply stop the trading aspect of the game entirely save for travel bugs and other travellers.

3.9k · January 28, 2005

As good as it gets is that you are not part of the problem.

I let my caches trade up or down at random and usually they go down but every now and then they go up. Some people think that's being a bad steward and I should go add more spiffy stuff every now and then. But I have more fun hiding another cache and starting it fresh than playing Martha Stewart on an existing one.

That's probably the approach that will cause you the least amount of grief. There really is nothing you can do in most cases to stop a cache from degrading to junk drawer crap. So, there's no point in getting stressed about it. The best you can do is carry some extra swag and help out other caches as you find them and hope that someone will do the same for yours. Call it, cacher reciprocity.

What really get my panties in a bunch, is when a cache STARTS with used, nasty swag. But at least it makes it more difficult to trade down in those cases.

Took: Broken Cabinet knob

Left: Gum Scraped off the bottom of my show. (at least I think it's gum)

2.5k · January 28, 2005

I may be slow on the uptake, but I have realised, at last, why it's common practice over here to list original cache contents. That means when people find your cache full of trash, they know that at least it didn't start off that way. I have to leave my caches to fill up or empty as people visit them because I don't have it's the budget, nor do I feel that it's my responsibility to replenish my caches when people have taken stuff and not left anything. We all know the rules. I have, however, left stuff in caches and not taken anything when I thought they were a bit empty. Ultimately, if you leave the box lying in the woods, you are leaving it to the mercy of whoever may find it, and people are infinately variable!

1.3k · January 28, 2005

There really is nothing you can do in most cases to stop a cache from degrading to junk drawer crap. So, there's no point in getting stressed about it. The best you can do is carry some extra swag and help out other caches as you find them and hope that someone will do the same for yours. Call it, cacher reciprocity.

What really get my panties in a bunch, is when a cache STARTS with used, nasty swag.

Eloquently stated on both points!

January 28, 2005

I ran into this last week. Went by to check our cache, as we do weekly. I work two jobs so I rarely have time to geocache right now. The cache was half empty and all the good stuff that had been there was gone. Now I have to scramble this weekend to pick up some stuff to rebuild.

We bend over backwards to make an even trade, wish everyone would.

1.3k · January 28, 2005

Perceptive Value could also be a problem for some. (Myself included)

Two of the recent caches that we traded in went like this:

Cache #1 - I let my daughter pick 2 items she wanted out of the cache. Since I'd just got a new Oriental Trading catalog a few days before and looked through it, I recognized the items has having come from there and knew the approximate value of them. I looked in my backpack of trade items and picked out 3 items that equaled about the same (or in this case - a little more) value of the two she took out.

Technically, that could be perceived as trading down. Because the single value of a single item would have been a little less expensive than that of a single item that was taken out.

BUT, the over all value was actually a little more than the total value of what was taken out.

One the items she took showed definate wear of have been played with by a previous child. But we replaced it with new unused items.

So did we really trade down?

Some will say yes , some will say no .

Perceptive Value

Cache #2 - My daughter took an item from the cache. I replaced it with one that I thought would have been the same in value.

I later saw the item that my daughter took in a store and realized I hadn't guessed its value no where near what it should have been. It was actually twice the cost of what I thought it should have cost.

Did I trade down in this case?

YES, most definately!

But, at the time of the actual trading, I would have said NO.

My perceived value of the took item wasn't what the item was actually worth.

So, I mistakenly traded down.

Both cases are just good examples of mistaken Percieved Value.

Cache #1 - All in the personal views of another whether it really happened or not.

Cache #2 - An honest mistake of mistakenly placing a wrong value on a trade.

Perceptive Value

And I'm sure I'm not the only one that has done this.

We don't intentionally trade down, but there are times when it's inevitable.

Some have stated that the McToys are definate trade downs.

My 13 year old daughter would probably agree, but then my sisters two 6 year old twins would think they'd found gold!!

She doesn't buy them Happy Meals for the simple fact of they order for the toy and don't eat the meal. So when they do eat at Micky D's she orders them the food that would be in the meal, and doesn't have to deal with the toys. And the "I already got one of these!" "His is better than mine!" "But, wanted the green one, not the yellow one!!" stuff.

So for them to find a McToy would bring utmost jubilation!!

Again all in the personal view of the "Perceptive Value"

D-man

22k · January 28, 2005

Technically, that could be perceived as trading down. Because the single value of a single item would have been a little less expensive than that of a single item that was taken out.
BUT, the over all value was actually a little more than the total value of what was taken out.

This was my point from before.

Technically you did trade even or up.

The next person who opens the cache perceives that the cache is full of low cost trade items.

Did you do wrong? I don't think so, but perhaps we need to have a practice of only trading one for one. Otherwise we are in fact the ones filling caches with lower grade items.

Edit: I don't mean limiting yourself to taking one item only, but rather whatever you take, replace each with an equal value.

And no not a rule, just a personal practice.

Edited January 29, 2005 by BlueDeuce

3.9k · January 29, 2005

Gridlox, IMO, I think it has less to do with monetary value and more about perceived value. If you think it a worthy trade chances are most others will too. Expecially if you are always trading in new items as opposed to used swag.

22k · January 29, 2005

Edit: nevermind, I tried.

Edited January 29, 2005 by BlueDeuce

Trading Up...

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