I Know This Has To Be A Can Of Worms, But

[+Seay me]

How much better is the quad helix vs patch?

 

Reason I'm askin is I'm debating between the Legend C and the 60C. By looking at the comparison chart at the garmin website the biggest differences are the memory, Antenna type adn jus ta little size difference.

 

The price diffference could mean me getting the legend C with mapsource CD or jsut an out of the box 60c with no additional maps until later...

 

Any thoughts?

Edited January 25, 2005 by Seay me

[+LthrWrk]

Quad Helix... I better under some marginal conditions. Maybe also take a look at Magellan Meridian series. My Caching partner (who uses a Garmin) and I have been comparing results at some caches. Sometimes she is closer sometimes I am.

[+Renegade Knight]

This is my take using the Standard Vista and a GPS V.

 

The Patch is better in canyons and near vertical survaces (the urban jungle?)

The Quad is better under tree cover.

 

Neither is head and shoulders better than the other but the difference is noticable but something you can work with.

 

The Patch vs. Quad Helix issue is one of if you always cache in the woods go Quad, if you always cache in the Urban Junkge go Patch. If you mix it up buy the GPS you like better based on it's other features.

[peter]

I've also had models with both types of antenna and can't say I've seen a consistent superiority of either type. Best performance under tree cover I've gotten has been with a patch antenna (eMap), but it was only marginally better than a III+ and V (helix). OTOH, my 12 (patch) wasn't quite as good. Slightly better than any of these has been an external Gilsson patch antenna - especially since it can frequently be better positioned.

 

Comparing to other receivers I've seen very similar results with both Meridian Gold and Platinum models (i.e. they were losing and regaining lock at about the same rate as the eMap when all units were oriented correctly). I have come across some particular samples of eTrex (b&w series) that had significantly worse reception, but others of the same type seemed fine. And I've also seen people carrying eTrex models in ways that almost guaranteed poor reception (thumb right over the antenna, upright in pocket with antenna facing chest, etc.). So I think the poor reputation of patch antennas comes from some quality control issues resulting in bad samples combined with user errors in not having the antenna face the sky.

 

Reports I've seen on the color eTrex models have been good so I'd hope any quality-control issues have been resolved.

 

Overall I wouldn't be concerned about the antenna in the LegendC and would much rather have a LegendC plus CitySelect-NA than a 60c with just the basemap (which is pretty bad).

[+Nurse Dave]

I know my wife (etrex) got tired of her GPS not getting a signal in the tall redwoods while mine (meridian) did. She switched.

[+Night Stalker]

I have cached with people that have both and haven't seen that much difference. I hear that the quad helix is better a lot though. I believe that more important for you might be to check the other features such as screen size to make your decision. It might be a pain to do without the maps for a while until you can afford City Select, but you may be happier in the long run. If the smaller screen is fine then you might be happier with that.

 

[+Jamie Z]

The Patch is better in canyons and near vertical survaces (the urban jungle?)

The Quad is better under tree cover.

I too had come to believe this after reading much in the forums.

 

My recent experience in China didn't seem to support this. Let me say first off that in most situations, both GPSs performed fine.

 

We had two GPS units with us. My Meridian Gold and a brand new Garmin Legend. Since I was the "GPS expert," I had to teach several people how to operate both of them.

 

The most convenient place to teach them was at the end of the day when we were all in the vehicles traveling back to our hotel. During the beginning of the trip (when the lessons took place), the drives were quite often through very deep canyons and/or beside steep cliffs in the mountains. I'll make the leap that this is very similar to "urban jungle."

 

Each day, I would give the legend to the "student" and use my own Meridian. I'd instruct the person to turn on the Legend and I'd then turn mine on. After a a short wait... maybe 30 seconds I'd have lock. So I'd say to the person with the Legend, "Let me know when you get a signal." More often than not, the person would never get a signal. It was very frustrating.

 

There were times where we drove for more than an hour, the whole time my GPS showing our location as we drove along the mountain road, while the Legend kept "searching."

 

Although I liked the features of the Legend when it did work (which again, was most of the time), it was very frustrating to try to work with the Garmin in the mountains.

 

The reception of the Meridian (aside from some other functional quirks) has continued to impress me since I bought it three years ago.

 

Jamie

Edited January 25, 2005 by Jamie Z

[+Nurse Dave]

Jamie is my hero

[+Seay me]

Well being that we only had the yellow etrex(purchased over 2 years ago), the legend C would be so much better anyway. That and the price of the maps are leaning me toward the Legend C. During caching we only had the rare issue with tree cover, however it was quite annoying when it did happen. We always got a lock in the car. The screen size isn't too much difference, but the legend has half the memory. I suppose if mapping was a huge issue I'd just hook up to the laptop.

 

Right now I guess I'm 70/30 leanin toward the legend C. I really think I'd dislike not having the maps, even for the time it'd take to save a little extra $$ for them.

 

I'll mull it over some more.....

 

Thanks for all the input.

[+WeightMan]

What I found when I switched from an etrex yellow to my 60c a year ago, was that I get more satellites that are nearer the horizon than I did with the patch on the yellow. I sill get the birds overhead so the net result is more satellites being checked. That doesn't get that much of a better EPE, but I do maintain a lock better in the woods with the 60c. While I still get a loss of signal with the 60c it is not nearly as often as with the yellow. That would lose signal almost from the time I entered the woods and have a terrible time getting it back. Now when I lose the signal with the 60c, it is generally only for a short time and it doesn't happen very often.

 

For my money the quad helix is vastly superior.

[+Jamie Z]

Jamie is my hero

And to add to this, (and I'm not an expert) I think it has more to do with antenna size than type. The eTrex line is purposely small. The antenna likely was made as a compromise.

 

Dave, you would have liked being the GPS guy.

 

Jamie

[+Seay me]

And to add to this, (and I'm not an expert) I think it has more to do with antenna size than type.

GAH! So size does matter!

Edited January 25, 2005 by Seay me

[+Seay me]

Hmm I wonder is Scheel's sports does price matching....

 

Costo has the 60c for $369.00 and the Legend C for $289

[+briansnat]

Each day, I would give the legend to the "student" and use my own Meridian. I'd instruct the person to turn on the Legend and I'd then turn mine on. After a a short wait... maybe 30 seconds I'd have lock. So I'd say to the person with the Legend, "Let me know when you get a signal." More often than not, the person would never get a signal. It was very frustrating.

 

There were times where we drove for more than an hour, the whole time my GPS showing our location as we drove along the mountain road, while the Legend kept "searching."

 

That sounds like a defective unit to me. I have an eTrex Vista and a Geko 201, both with patch antenas and once owned an eTrex Legend. All get a lock within a minute or two under all conditions including under tree cover and in the mountains.

 

When I hunt caches with my wife I use my 60CS and she uses the Geko. There have been a number of cases where her Geko took her right to the cache, while I was putzing around 50-100 feet away. In every instance we were in hilly terrain, in a ravine or near a cliff, which to me, lends credence to the suppsoed superiority of the patch under those conditions.

 

Here is a good article explaining the differences between the patch and quad helix and why neither one is clearly superior. Here is another.

[+briansnat]

Hmm  I wonder is Scheel's sports does price matching....

 

Costo has the 60c for $369.00 and the Legend C for $289

Amazon.com has the 60CS for $370 and the 60C for $339.

Edited January 26, 2005 by briansnat

[+Seay me]

Thanks Briansnat, I'll print thos pages off of amazon.com and see if I can get a pricematch. I'm just impatient hate waiting for shipping. IF they won't match it though I'll wait. I said I'm impatient, not stupid!

[BilgeRat]

Consider this, too. I have used an amplified antenna on my 60c in downtown Chicago, and the only time it lost the birds was when we went under an elevated CTA structure. I'm impressed enough with the performance of the amplified antenna that I'm seriously considering ordering one with a shorter cable for our trip to Italy in March. (We have the public restrooms waypointed! )

Tom

[+Seay me]

Our local big sprots store here won't pricematch amazon. He said that he don't knwo how amazon sells for that price....He said the amazon price is below the store cost.

[+jacques0]

I think it also pays to move your GPS around a little to find a "sweet spot" for reception. I have often picked up a couple extra satellites w/ an eXplorist 200 by tilting it a bit and orienting it in different directions. I realize that, typically, patch antennas should be held relatively flat to the sky, while quads should be held perpendicular, but a slight incline does often help with a patch. I have often extolled the accuracy of this GPS and have very little problem getting a lock on 8-12 (13 sometimes) satellites.

 

There have been extreme cases at the bottom of a ravine AND under heavy tree cover where I could only get 4 or 5. Sure, I lost WAAS and my accuracy was off, but I expect that and I'm sure a quad would experience the same thing.

[+Turtle3863]

Right now I guess I'm 70/30 leanin toward the legend C. I really think I'd dislike not having the maps, even for the time it'd take to save a little extra $$ for them.

 

I'll mull it over some more.....

 

Thanks for all the input.

Think again, I got the (black and white)Legend first, and now have the 60c and not only is the antenna better, the screen is much bigger. The bigger screen might not seam that big of a deal, but add mapping software in the future and you can barely see it driving in the car on a Legend but the 60c is great. I have been in the house on my computer and had the 60c get a sat lock 10 feet from a small window.

[+NightPilot]

For me the big screen is a drawback, not a feature. For a GPS, I want it small, light, and easy to carry. I do mapping on my Palm, which is much better suited for that, and only need the GPS to send position information there. When caching, maps aren't of much help to me, and I just want the basic information - how far is the cache, and in what direction. YMMV, and that's why they sell all those models.

[+robert]

I've also had models with both types of antenna and can't say I've seen a consistent superiority of either type.

I've been in heavy tree cover in a downpour with a Sportrak Color (quad helix) and had a yellow Etrex (patch) pass me while I was waiting for my signal to come back. As long as you hold the GPS right you should be fine in most situations. Get the GPS that feels best to you and you'll be happy with it.

[+jacques0]

Just for the record, I am currently sitting in my computer room, which is in a CONCRETE BLOCK house with a SLATE ROOF. I am 12' away from a window, which faces north.

 

Right now I have locked on 5 satellites and I have a 3D fix.

 

My GPS? An eXplorist 200.

 

I would put the Quad/Patch issues to rest. There are bigger fish to fry.