Jump to content

We Want To Go Paperless!


Recommended Posts

We'd love to go paperless on our cache adventures. I heard handheld PDA units are the way to go. Is the Palm brand considered to be good? How much memory and speed is enough? How much memory does the typical cache page use? We'd like to download LOTS of cache pages for road trips and camping trips this summer. We are pretty techo-illiterate, so any advice is gladly welcomed! :o

Link to comment

You do not need anything real fancy. I wa able to go paperless with a used Palm M500 that I got on eBay for well under $100. It may be wise to choose a PDA that has a slot for externa. memory such as this M500 has. It uses standard SD cards. I have a 32MB card in it and it will hold far more geocaches than I'll do any time soon.

I also downloaded (and paid for!) Cachemate and GSAK. Both very nice programs to help you go paperless.

I'm certain there are any number of PDA's you could select to get the job done. I'm merely chiming in to let you know that you don't need a top-of-the-line unit. My M500 is about as basic as they get and you could probably find a good one for not a lot of $$$

Link to comment

Yes the Cachemate PDA software is quite tiny in size & efficient. Together with it and 500 stored caches it's currently occupying 1.6mb on my PDA, so even an old basic model with 8mb will be more than enough. And even a color screen isn't of any advantage at least with the Palm powered units.

 

Also the fact that most PDA's aren't waterproof, shockproof, "outdoorproof", it's a good thing to not spend too much $ on one in the event it gets lost damaged or soaked etc..

Edited by IVxIV
Link to comment

Yep, I'd just get something like the M500 off of eBay. It's good to have external storage (ie: SD card support) because most Palms will lose their data if the batteries die. If you backup regularly to the card, you can restore in a matter of minutes.

 

Colour isn't of much use if you're just using text-based programs like Cachemate.

 

GeoBC

Link to comment
I went with a Pocket PC since these are Windows based unlike Palm which has it's own operating system.

amen, brotha

with yours and others' help, I went paperless in my first month of joining this sport

Pocket PC, premium membership and EasyGPS

loads the cache pages on the PDA

loads the caches into the Legend

that easy

Link to comment

Ok... drag and drop sounds really good to me. A quick look on ebay showed me PPCs by HP, Compaq and Toshiba. Any preferences? Caching is all that we'd use it for so the extra bells and whistles are unnecessary. They seem to be a little more $$ than pdas, but if PPCs as easy as it sounds, it may be worth the difference!

Link to comment

G'day

 

I have just gone paperless caching with a Palm Zire 21 which I got off eBay, Cachemate and iSilo/iSilox.

 

I also use GSAK on my laptop which provides the files for iSilo and Cachemate.

 

I am still playing with it all, but my first impressions are pretty positive.

 

Regards

Andrew

Link to comment
I went with a Pocket PC since these are Windows based unlike Palm which has it's own operating system.

I'm not dissing PocketPCs, but what advantage is there to running a variant of Windows on a PDA, vs Palm running PalmOS on a PDA?? Neither can run Windows software on the PDA.

 

I can see how some people would prefer to have a file system rather than Palm's record system BUT that is irrelevant to having a Windows-like OS (ie: PocketPC) or some other OS (ie: Linux).

 

GeoBC

Link to comment
but what advantage is there to running a variant of Windows on a PDA, vs Palm running PalmOS on a PDA?? Neither can run Windows software on the PDA.

GeoBC

I have only used a Pocket PC, so I can't give a complete comparison.....

 

with Pocket PC, when I plug it into the cradle, a screen pops up on my PC, and there are folders, just like on the PC

you simply drag and drop the geocaching files from the PC folders over into the Pocket PC folders

 

I do the same with music files and picture files. My pda becomes my mp3 player, and my slideshow viewer.

Link to comment
I have a palm and pccket pc and the PPC is so MUCH EASIER to use, just drag and drop the gpx file in the PPC.

Sorry, there is no evidence to support such a claim.

 

For the geocacher, Palm is the way to go. A refurbished or used Palm can be found for well under $100. Look on http://www.overstock.com or http://www.mistyelectronics.com/. I'm not a fan of eBay, but there are tons of units there. The Zire 21 currently selling on overstock for $63 would be a great choice. You can go even cheaper--a Palm Vx or even a Palm IIIx would work fine. Each of those units has 8MB, which is more than enough to hold a couple thousand caches as well as a game or three. If you are willing to part with some money, the Zire 71 or 72 are great choices--they are fast, they have a built-in camera, and plenty of memory for caches and games.

 

Cachemate is an excellent program. Brian (the Cachemate programmer) is active in these forums and in turn, he also asks a lot of questions in the Palm dev forums that I can tell are for features he's adding to Cachemate.

 

Some of the technical bits:

 

Palm OS supports FAT/VFS on the SD card--it's not record based. It's been like that for several years and a lot of software supports it (including cachemate). To get files onto the card, you can use a card reader or Hotsync. The newest devices from PalmOne treat the handheld as a type of flash drive, so file transfers can be quicker using Explorer (i.e. drag and drop). Older Palms can mimic this functionality using on-board software.

 

PocketPC does not run Windows--not in the classic sense anyway. They call it "Windows CE" under the hood, but it's a complete rewrite from the ground up. Most PPC handheld units these days run on the ARM processor (as do newer Palms). Microsoft Windows (9x/Me/2000/XP) runs on the x86 processor. They are not compatible, so software has to be redeveloped to run on PocketPC. M$ provides some of the same developer support in PPC as it does on the desktop, but it's not a case of "recompile and go", despite what Redmond wants you to believe. While there may be programs that run on PPC called "Word", "Internet Explorer", and "Outlook", they are completely different applications from their desktop namesakes and they have their own quirks.

 

Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

-E

Link to comment

I bought a M125 used off ebay and have been using it with cachemate. I've got over 700 caches stored on it now, it takes up just over 2MB of the M125 8MB memory. The M125 has SD card capacity as well so I figure I've got plenty of space for the future.

 

My method of transfering files is a little convoluted due to my home computer being a Mac, I use GSAK on my computer at work and e-mail myself the files to install at home.

 

I've been quite happy with cachemate and the palm, happy to (mostly) get rid of the printed cache sheets. The mostly comes from the trouble I had over Christmas where I went to a new cache with my bro-in-law in the next province over. I downloaded the caches to the palm before I left on my trip and the cache in question was approved the day after I left. We ended up having to go to his office to print out the cache sheet.

Edited by derico
Link to comment
with Pocket PC, when I plug it into the cradle, a screen pops up on my PC, and there are folders, just like on the PC

you simply drag and drop the geocaching files from the PC folders over into the Pocket PC folders

 

I do the same with music files and picture files. My pda becomes my mp3 player, and my slideshow viewer.

Palms are behind in natively providing a remote drive icon in your drive list. The T5 does this. Some of the Sony PalmOS devices might do this, too. Virtually all other Palms can do with using Card Export. That's how I move mp3's, movies and photos to my Palm. I just drag 'n' drop using Windows Explorer.

 

For that matter, I can do the same with Word and Excel files.

 

 

 

GeoBC

Link to comment

Just to add my two cents, with the advancement in Pocket PCs, I think they are the way to go. They are pricier, but you can get much more. With the new VGA screens, it is almost like having a mini PC with me. I have full resolution moving maps (Memory-Map) and all the bells and whistles you could want. But, again, this comes at a price. Certainly, Palm based units are a bargain value. (I wonder why?) :D

Link to comment
Just to add my two cents, with the advancement in Pocket PCs, I think they are the way to go.  They are pricier, but you can get much more.

 

I agree that they have nicer hardware configurations (ie: WiFi AND Bluetooth, dual slots, etc).

 

With the new VGA screens, it is almost like having a mini PC with me.

 

The reviews I've read complained that the VGA isn't be used to its fullest; it makes the fonts easier on the eyes but they don't allow for smaller fonts so you can't really view any more info on a single screen than before. Are there ways around this? Being able to zoom in/out w/o jumping through hoops would be a necessary feature to really take advantage of VGA res, imo.

 

I have full resolution moving maps (Memory-Map) and all the bells and whistles you could want.  But, again, this comes at a price.  Certainly, Palm based units are a bargain value.  (I wonder why?)  :D

Probably because of the cost of licensing WinCE. ;-)

 

GeoBC

Link to comment

I have an Ipaq PPC. I don't think the following features can be done with a Palm. But then again, I'm not too familiar with Palm. So correct me! I can stand it! :rolleyes:

 

1. PPC came with WIndows Outlook that allows me to sync my Office and Home PC Windows Outlook for appointments, TO DO's, Contacts, Notes, email, etc.

2. The Outlook Contact list is used by Mapopolis for go to autonavigation. You do not have to enter the person's address, just check the name and Navigate.

3. Word, Excel, etc files are copied from my PC. WHile the PPC does not have most of the features of these program available, I can at least view and modify these files in my PPC.

4. I slip in my CF card from my digital camera to display pictures on the PPC. I also use this connection because my company will not allow direct transfer of files through the USB but I get around it through the PPC which they allow and have set up for me.

5. PPC allows icons of all the caches in Mapopolis so as I'm traveling around I can see the caches on the Mapopolis maps. Tapping the icon gives me the cache name, D/T, type, hider, etc. You can select to auto-navigate visualy and with voice commands to the cache with one more click.

6. NG ^Topo 24K maps can be copied and viewed and you can see your location if you connect a GPS in the PPC CF slot.

Link to comment
1. PPC came with WIndows Outlook that allows me to sync my Office and Home PC Windows Outlook for appointments, TO DO's, Contacts, Notes, email, etc.

Palms can Hotsync with Outlook. My T3 came with conduits for Outlook but I prefer Palm's own desktop app since I don't use Outlook for mail anyway.

 

2. The Outlook Contact list is used by Mapopolis for go to autonavigation.  You do not have to enter the person's address, just check the name and Navigate.

Same for Palms and Mapopolis: "Use Palm Address Book Contacts as origin or destination"

 

3. Word, Excel, etc  files are copied from my PC.  WHile the PPC does not have most of the features of these program available, I can at least view and modify these files in my PPC.

Yep, I do that on my T3, too. It comes with DocumentsToGo so I can work with native Office files on my SD card.

 

4. I slip in my CF card from my digital camera to display pictures on the PPC.  I also use this connection because my company will not allow direct transfer of files through the USB but I get around it through the PPC which they allow and have set up for me.

If I had a camera that uses SD, I could do it. Unfortunately, my T3 uses SD and my Minolta uses CF. I use my T3's 480x320 as a convenient photo album, though. I just drag n drop .jpgs and other files onto the card.

 

5. PPC allows icons of all the caches in Mapopolis so as I'm traveling around I can see the caches on the Mapopolis maps.  Tapping the icon gives me the cache name, D/T, type, hider, etc.  You can select to auto-navigate visualy and with voice commands  to the cache with one more click.

Don't know about that...have only briefly played around with Mapopolis and didn't do anything with waypoints. However, I would assume that it does the same on the Palm since the functionality you describe is being provided by Mapopolis, not PPC. Oh, I guess it does, I just found this product description text:

"Never get lost again with the Mapopolis Palm Navigator Serial GPS. The Included Mapopolis Navigator software provides you with active route guidance from origin to destination. Just choose your destination by entering in an address or choosing an intersection, point of interest or location from the map and Mapopolis will give you directions. The software guides you with spoken and visual prompts before each turn. Should you miss a turn or make a wrong turn, the software will automatically re-route you from your current location. The Palm Navigator Serial GPS easily connects to your Palm OS 5 handheld’s serial port with a six foot cable for easy positioning on the roof or dash board. The cable connects the GPS to the PDA and provides power to both. "

 

6. NG ^Topo 24K maps can be copied and viewed and you can see your location if you connect a GPS in the PPC CF slot.

Don't know...what do you use to view the NG Topo maps? If they can be viewed by bitmap map viewers like Fugawi and Pathaway, then yes, that'll work. I've used Pathaway to view digitized topo maps for a "moving map" display on my Palm. I haven't tried any of the GPS add-ons, though. I've only connected my Palms to my handheld GPS.

 

GeoBC

Edited by geobc
Link to comment

I guess stand corrected about the Palm! (except I know from others that you cannot create Maplets with the cache icons for Mapopolis with the Palm Item 5). But I believe the Palm you are describing costs a lot more that the $50-100 buck units described above. I guess it comes down to the Chevy vs. Ford or Garmin vs Magellan thing. For me I picked the PPC because I never had a Palm and figured it would be closer to Windows. If you're use to Palms, I guess you want to stick with them.

 

It would nice to hear from those who have had both. :lol:

Link to comment
But I believe the Palm you are describing costs a lot more that the $50-100 buck units described above.

You're right. A Zire71 (can do what I described 'cept has a 320x320 screen) costs USD$150 on eBay. OTOH, it does have a low res digicam which was nice. I kinda miss my Z71 but I love the long screen on my T3.

 

As for maplets, I don't know what those are, so I'll have to plead ignorance.

 

I basically bought into the PalmOS because there were thousands of apps for them. I may switch if something better comes along but for now, and imho, nothing is out there right now that is significantly better. It's kind of like debating Garmin vs Magellan (or as you said, Chevy vs Ford). Basically, they're close enough that there is no clear winner unless you specify particular requirements.

 

My favourite PDA of all time is the HP100/200LX MS-DOS series. I still have mine and it still works just fine even after years of severe use. Unfortunately, I was seduced by the lure of Hotsyncing, backlighting, and the thousands of apps developed especially for the PalmOS. Too bad HP never kept developing them.

 

GeoBC

Edited by geobc
Link to comment

I guess I got carried away with my PPC because the one before was a Sharp organizer with black/white letters. It was only good for phone numbers, appts, etc. The one great advantage was that I was a speed demon typing away on its keyboard using only my thumbs. Kinda miss it. :grin:

Link to comment

I used this reply in another topic, but it seems relevant here.

 

I don't think speed will be too much of a factor, you are not doing anything really cpu intensive. Memory, I would say most units now a days have the ability to add some sort of flash memory (cf, sd, etc) so probably is something that is flexible. If you are looking at something with no expansion slot, I would say get something with at least 8 MB of memory.

 

I have a really old pda (Casio E-11) running Windows CE 2.0 (its about 6-7 years old). It has CF expansion slot and 8mb of memory.

 

I haven't really even used it in the past couple of years and I just dug it out to see what it could do.

 

My PDA didn't come with a html view per se, it has a 'channels' viewer which is crap. But you can easily download freeware html viewers.

 

I realized (with some reading on the forums) that GSAK will generate html files that you can export.

 

So I just do the export, then copy them to my pda (drag and drop or ctrl-c/ctrl-v).

 

Then I just use my web browser on the pda to view the caches. GSAK generates an index.html file that lets you sort based on several different options including distance, bearing, name, placed by, travel bugs....

 

I have about 160 caches stored in a couple of different folders and I don't think it is even taking 1/5 of my memory space.

 

Really simple.

 

Now I can go paperless and I didn't have to spend a bunch of money and I wasn't even really trying.

 

As to the OS, it pretty much depends on personal experience.

Link to comment
I guess I got carried away with my PPC because the one before was a Sharp organizer with black/white letters. It was only good for phone numbers, appts, etc. The one great advantage was that I was a speed demon typing away on its keyboard using only my thumbs. Kinda miss it. :unsure:

I started with a Sharp OZ (can't recall the numeric part of the model name). It opened like a book with a tiny screen and a non-QWERTY keyboard. Cost me CAD$400 at the time and I wasn't sure if I'd get enough use out of it since until that time, I hadn't been a (paper) organizer kind of person. As it turned out, I did use it a lot, and that led to an HP95LX, an HP100LX, a Palm IIIxe, a TRG Pro, a Zire 71, and now a T3.

 

The 100LX was the greatest. Travelled in Europe, Costa Rica and China with it and it was great for writing my travel journal (it had a tiny QWERTY keyboard that I was just barely able to touch type on).

 

GeoBC

Link to comment
It would nice to hear from those who have had both.  :unsure:

I wrote four paragraphs when I realized "crap, I can't divulge any of that". Stupid NDAs.

 

Anyway, I've worked extensively both on (and under) Palm OS, Windows CE and other PDA OSes (MagicCap anyone?). My experiences with CE factored heavily on my decision to go to work for Palm. I liked the people at Palm and I believed in what they were trying to accomplish. I still do. Must be the kool-aid.

 

I admit that my CE technical knowledge is several years out of date. I've played with a recent iPaq and it feels alright in my hand. Some of the things that drove me nuts in '97 are still there, though. The way that ActiveSync pesters the user would drive me nuts if I had to use it all the time.

 

Bah, I shouldn't get into these kinds of discussions. It is a Ford/Chevy or Jesus/Allah/Shiva thing and there isn't One True Answer. I guess I'm the equivalent of "Brother Jed" who goes to college campuses and yells at the kids to stop fornicating. :unsure: I'll stop now.

 

If you want to get a Palm, there are a number of Palm users, myself included, on these forums who are willing to help. If you want to get a PPC, I hope it works well for you.

Link to comment
The reviews I've read complained that the VGA isn't be used to its fullest; it makes the fonts easier on the eyes but they don't allow for smaller fonts so you can't really view any more info on a single screen than before. Are there ways around this? Being able to zoom in/out w/o jumping through hoops would be a necessary feature to really take advantage of VGA res, imo.

 

GeoBC

Just to clarify (regarding the VGA screens), I know that Memory-Map Navigator, for one, is now making full use of the VGA. When the VGA screens first came out, it used something called "pixel doubling" to simply fill the screen with the available image. But, now, it shows full VGA resolution. Mighty pretty on that little screen.

 

I understand that all this technology is a bit pricey for hitting the bushes looking for a cache, but I use my PDA for dozens of different things. I always have it along (and you never know when you will wander near a cache!).

Link to comment

The VGA is super, but the software has to be written to take advantage of it. My Toshiba e800 is with me always.

 

I'm not sure waht that one post was referring to about activesync nagging the user. My activesync only pops up when i plug it in to sync it. Other that that I never see the software. I think it's all in the configuration.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...