Kayak Suggestions

January 21, 2005

I'm considering buying a kayak for paddling around lakes/rivers this summer. I've been looking at a few, but would like everybodies opinion from those who have them. I'm not going to take on any major rapids. It would mainly be used for gunk-holing lakes, finding/placing island bound caches, occasional trips down gentle rivers, and fishing. I've considered possibly buying an OT rush (Old Town) for around $400 from cabelas. It seems to be a stable boat thats not pricey. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

38.2k · January 21, 2005

Old Town makes OK, affordable kayaks. The Rush is fine as long as you don't plan any overniters or long day trips because there really isn't any storage space. Since you'll be mostly on lakes and gentle streams, you may want to consider a recreational touring kayak instead. It will be longer, faster and track better.

Dagger makes very nice kayaks. You also might want to check out their line.

Edited January 21, 2005 by briansnat

2.1k · January 21, 2005

Hi,

As a simple, entry-level kayak that's good in a variety of situations, I like Old Town's Loon 138. It has a fair amount of storage space, tracks nicely, is pretty stable, has the best back support of any kayak I've paddled, and isn't too expensive. I've used mine on lakes, the ocean, and in rivers...for day-trips and overnights...I've even stuck my 2 year-old son in front of me for short paddles (he loved it), and a friend takes their small dog along in the cockpit.

Here's a link to Old Town's page on the Loon 138

nfa-jamie

January 21, 2005

I looked up the dagger brand. The element 11.2 has really caught my eye for a recreational kayak. The lines look a bit more aesthetic than the OT brand. BTW, what is a drop skeg?

5k · January 21, 2005

BTW, what is a drop skeg?

I drop skeg is a small non-steerable rudder under the hull. Called a "drop" because you can usually raise or lower the skeg with a lever near the cockpit.

Jamie

January 21, 2005

I drop skeg is a small non-steerable rudder under the hull. Called a "drop" because you can usually raise or lower the skeg with a lever near the cockpit.

To expand on this a bit... the skeg is usually dropped only when paddling with a cross wind to aid you in going straight. In general, the skeg is left up which makes the boat much easier to manuever.

January 21, 2005

My wife and I have had a Dagger Magellan and the Dagger Apostle. Both were wonderful expedition boats, (they carried a lot of stuff).

We'd both love to get back into kayaking but with a smaller house and three kids that are three and under, it's not going to happen for awhile.

Since what I've had has been Dagger thats where my preference lies. I'd also really suggest looking at boats with more than the basic features, buy something you are going to grow into feature wise rather than something you are going to grow out of.

Semper Fi

January 21, 2005

Maybe it's just me, but I think this thread belongs in the off-topic forum. Or do you intend to go caching in a kayak?

2.1k · January 21, 2005

Maybe it's just me, but I think this thread belongs in the off-topic forum. Or do you intend to go caching in a kayak?

I've gone caching in my canoe, for some caches, it's the only way to get there.

nfa-jamie

January 21, 2005

It would mainly be used for gunk-holing lakes, finding/placing island bound caches, occasional trips down gentle rivers, and fishing.

Looks geocaching related to me.

January 21, 2005

We used our Stearns inflatable kayak to place this cache. Our previous experience with a rowboat we rented to chase the Paddler's Cache sold us on the idea.

Inflatables are cool for casual 'yaking because they knock down to a suitcase-sized bundle that's easy to throw in the trunk 'just in case.' We bought a $10 bicycle-style inflation pump at Walmart to replace the standard foot pump. The pump operates on both up and down strokes and inflates the kayak in a couple of minutes.

January 21, 2005

I have a Wilderness Systems "Pungo" kayak. It has a larger than usual cockpit wich is easier for me to get in and out of since I'm 6'4". Mine is a few years old, but the new ones come with storage hulls and a better seat. Might have to upgrade soon myself. But it tracks great and gets in some seriously shallow water. I love it.

January 21, 2005

I have the Wilderness Systems "Mallard" - it's made for fishing and has a flatter bottom and a keel to keep it tracking straight when you paddle. It's a bit heavier, but like the above post, it's roomier and more stable. It was around $350 and I love it.

BTW, I haven't had any luck finding caches listed for kayaking. Perhaps adding a keyword to search on, or some kind of category for lakes, rivers, etc. would help. Otherwise you have to browse through every listing and then look at the map to see if its located in a body of water.

January 21, 2005

I have a Wilderness Systems "Pungo" kayak. It has a larger than usual cockpit wich is easier for me to get in and out of since I'm 6'4". Mine is a few years old, but the new ones come with storage hulls and a better seat. Might have to upgrade soon myself. But it tracks great and gets in some seriously shallow water. I love it.

I second the "Pungo" nomination. It's nothing technical, but it's great for a first kayak. It was my first (we bought two, in fact, nearly eight years ago now), and I haven't upgraded since. It's very stable (I've never tipped, and only once have I had a friend tip), comfortable, and has a large cockpit which, I agree, is great if you're taller, and good for caching-- easy in/out! Basically, if you're just about recreational kayaking and not all for speed or eskimo rolls (darned if I know how to do one, despite my kayaking enthusiasm) and skirts and all that, tend to stay in relatively calm water, and don't want to worry about tipping, I'd highly recommend it.

6.4k · January 21, 2005

Maybe it's just me, but I think this thread belongs in the off-topic forum. Or do you intend to go caching in a kayak?

I've probably done at least 30 caches by canoe (most of which can ONLY be done by canoe or kayak), so it could very well be geocaching related.

January 21, 2005

This Cache GCGR3M requires either a jet boat that can navigate class 3/4 rapids or a 2 day float down the salmon river or snake river(permit only) going through class 3 or 4 rapids (possible class 5 in high water)..

Only been found once too so far....

6.4k · January 21, 2005

BTW, I haven't had any luck finding caches listed for kayaking. Perhaps adding a keyword to search on, or some kind of category for lakes, rivers, etc. would help. Otherwise you have to browse through every listing and then look at the map to see if its located in a body of water.

Well, when the next addition to the cache attributes is added, you will be able to seach for "boat required" attributes. In the meantime, you can search for high terrain caches. If you need a boat to do the cache, it's supposed to be rated a terrain 5, but that isn't always the case. If you are a premium member, you can start by running a PQ for just 4.5-5 star terrain caches, and then checking on those. That's a little easier. Also for premium members, the 3rd party software programs like watcher and GSAK have more advanced keyword search then the website has, so you can search them out that way too.

January 21, 2005

I drop skeg is a small non-steerable rudder under the hull. Called a "drop" because you can usually raise or lower the skeg with a lever near the cockpit.

To expand on this a bit... the skeg is usually dropped only when paddling with a cross wind to aid you in going straight. In general, the skeg is left up which makes the boat much easier to manuever.

I keep my skeg down all the time....I paddle a sirocco so the skeg only drops a few inchs.

Shameless pluggs to keep

this geocaching related

Edited January 21, 2005 by Dagg

January 21, 2005

I've got a Sirocco as well and love it. This topic couldn't be more on topic if it tried. We're frequently caching by kayak, and making the adventure even better by overnighting it.

There are lots of photos of the excitement here

January 21, 2005

I have an inflatable SeaEagle A330. I got it for $120 off of ebay. It weighs in at around 26 lbs and sets up in about 6 minutes. It can handle ocean paddling and class 3 rapids. It's thick and sturdy and has two mounted skegs for tracking. It seats two and comes with two double paddles and a huge and efficient footpump. I'm new to kayaking myself, and have had a lot of fun with this one. I've taken it on a couple of big ponds and plan to go down a lazy rizer for a cache in the coming months.

3.9k · January 21, 2005

Be sure to buy a kayak GPS mount to go with it.

January 21, 2005

Be sure to buy a kayak GPS mount to go with it.

Like this?

January 21, 2005

Be sure to buy a kayak GPS mount to go with it.

Or this?

6.4k · January 21, 2005

GPS, DVD player, and a beer, life is good, eh?

January 21, 2005

GPS, DVD player, and a beer, life is good, eh?

you missed the solar charger

January 21, 2005

Hey do you still have that DVD?

January 21, 2005

GPS, DVD player, and a beer, life is good, eh?

And don't forget the iPod with wirless FM transmitter and the take down buck saw

and the gourmet breakfast

We don't mess around

January 21, 2005

Jumping in on the discussion here since I have been interested in picking up a kayak for the past year or so. I had done a fair amount of ocean kayaking when we lived out in CA. Kids came along and put the kabosh on it for a while, but now I'm thinking of starting out slowly once again.

I've been leaning towards the Loon 138T or the 160T since I would like to be able to bring at least one of my sons (ages 8,7 or 4) along periodically yet still have the option to go solo.

Any thoughts on these models or any recommendations on tandems in general?

Cost is a factor. I'm not so worried about the carry weight but it does need to have at least a 350lb capacity (mostly for me - 6'7", 265), which rules out most of the inflatables I've seen.

January 21, 2005

Jumping in on the discussion here since I have been interested in picking up a kayak for the past year or so. I had done a fair amount of ocean kayaking when we lived out in CA. Kids came along and put the kabosh on it for a while, but now I'm thinking of starting out slowly once again.
I've been leaning towards the Loon 138T or the 160T since I would like to be able to bring at least one of my sons (ages 8,7 or 4) along periodically yet still have the option to go solo.

Any thoughts on these models or any recommendations on tandems in general?

Cost is a factor. I'm not so worried about the carry weight but it does need to have at least a 350lb capacity (mostly for me - 6'7", 265), which rules out most of the inflatables I've seen.

Seaward makes a nice double....

January 21, 2005

The Seaward tandems look nice but are probably overkill for our needs at the moment - I didn't see prices, but I'm guessing they were in the $1K range

2.8k · January 21, 2005

Jumping in on the discussion here since I have been interested in picking up a kayak for the past year or so. I had done a fair amount of ocean kayaking when we lived out in CA. Kids came along and put the kabosh on it for a while, but now I'm thinking of starting out slowly once again.
I've been leaning towards the Loon 138T or the 160T since I would like to be able to bring at least one of my sons (ages 8,7 or 4) along periodically yet still have the option to go solo.

Any thoughts on these models or any recommendations on tandems in general?

Cost is a factor. I'm not so worried about the carry weight but it does need to have at least a 350lb capacity (mostly for me - 6'7", 265), which rules out most of the inflatables I've seen.

Seaward makes a nice double....

You must've missed the part where he indicated cost was a factor!

What options would a Dad (that would be me) have for taking 3 kids (11, 5, 5) out on calm/semi-calm water? Am I going to have to resort to a canoe?

2.8k · January 21, 2005

The Seaward tandems look nice but are probably overkill for our needs at the moment - I didn't see prices, but I'm guessing they were in the $1K range

You'd be low by about 4X.

A dealer's website

January 21, 2005

You'd be low by about 4X.
A dealer's website

:laughing: WOW!!!

That would definitely not be an option.

January 21, 2005

You'd be low by about 4X.
A dealer's website

WOW!!!

That would definitely not be an option.

:anibad:

Get a canoe

January 21, 2005

Back in 2000 I picked up a really nice Vista Expedition by Walden Sports.

It is my first kayak and I really enjoy it!!

I do have one suggestion though. Try before you buy. The dealer that I went to was right on the Erie canal so they let me try out several boats before I decided on one. I'm glad that I did too. The one that I was most interested in from the looks felt like a cork bobbing in the water when I tried it. I found the Vista to be a good recreational boat with both good handling and still stable.

If your kayak dealer isn't located near water, ask if they have any days where they offer tirals. Sometimes they have a day where they take a bunch of boats to a lake and let people try them.

Also If you have a Gander Mtn. store near you, they have an indoor pool you can try the boat out in, but it's not the same as being outside in a body of water.

Good luck and I hope you find a boat you like.

--John

6.4k · January 21, 2005

Back in 2000 I picked up a really nice Vista Expedition by Walden Sports.
It is my first kayak and I really enjoy it!!

I do have one suggestion though. Try before you buy. The dealer that I went to was right on the Erie canal so they let me try out several boats before I decided on one. I'm glad that I did too. The one that I was most interested in from the looks felt like a cork bobbing in the water when I tried it. I found the Vista to be a good recreational boat with both good handling and still stable.

If your kayak dealer isn't located near water, ask if they have any days where they offer tirals. Sometimes they have a day where they take a bunch of boats to a lake and let people try them.

Also If you have a Gander Mtn. store near you, they have an indoor pool you can try the boat out in, but it's not the same as being outside in a body of water.

Good luck and I hope you find a boat you like.

--John

Pardon the pun, but he just missed the boat on a Walden Sport kayak. :laughing:

January 21, 2005

You'd be low by about 4X.
A dealer's website

WOW!!!

That would definitely not be an option.

Another option, If you have the time and the space is to build your own.

Pygmy has kits for around 1500 US

January 22, 2005

I do have one suggestion though. Try before you buy.

By far the best advice in this thread!

January 22, 2005

I do have one suggestion though. Try before you buy.

By far the best advice in this thread!

Kinda goes without saying doesn’t it?

Hey that $4000. boat sure looks nice, Ill take it! :laughing:

January 22, 2005

Back in 2000 I picked up a really nice Vista Expedition by Walden Sports.
It is my first kayak and I really enjoy it!!

I do have one suggestion though. Try before you buy. The dealer that I went to was right on the Erie canal so they let me try out several boats before I decided on one. I'm glad that I did too. The one that I was most interested in from the looks felt like a cork bobbing in the water when I tried it. I found the Vista to be a good recreational boat with both good handling and still stable.

If your kayak dealer isn't located near water, ask if they have any days where they offer tirals. Sometimes they have a day where they take a bunch of boats to a lake and let people try them.

Also If you have a Gander Mtn. store near you, they have an indoor pool you can try the boat out in, but it's not the same as being outside in a body of water.

Good luck and I hope you find a boat you like.

--John

Pardon the pun, but he just missed the boat on a Walden Sport kayak.

D'oh!

So I guess that this makes my 2000 Walden catalog a collectors item. Woo-Hoo!!

January 22, 2005

Thanks for the suggestions everybody. I think i'm still leaning toward a recreational single loon, or dagger. Somewhere in the $600 range for my budget. I don't think i'm going to get as technical as a dvd player, solar charger, and carry 4 days worth of gear, but it was fun seeing those pics :laughing: . I'll try to see if I can try them out first. I'll probably be buying it from scheels later this spring. I think they are pretty good about letting you try them out first.

January 22, 2005

For what you describe pretty much anything that floats will do. So just look for the best deal you can find. Probably your best bet is to shop used. Check the local classifieds, and perhaps bulletin boards at local sporting goods or paddling specialty shops. HOWEVER, you must realize and understand that the basic "recreational" style boats, the likes of which are being so eagerly tossed out in this thread, are of a type that are VERY LOW PERFORNANCE and can even be considered DANGEROUS in the hands of a novice who decides to take on more challenging conditions. Recreational kayaks are not suitable for open water, whitewater, or conditions which might include such things as significant currents or wind. In other words, they are little more then pool toys. Pool toys can be a whole lot of fun on benign water - but they are still pool toys. If you are interested in doing some "real" kayaking then I suggest that you contact a kayaking specialty shop and get some instruction. Oh, BTW, I teach sea kayaking in sunny Southern California and have used a kayak to aid in finding several caches around here.

January 22, 2005

I have had a few experiences with a kayak,

The first was a week long trip up in Canada. (Algonquin Park) i used a bright purple kayak (River Runner R5) It was a small touring kayah with a plastic skeg (is that right) on the rear. If you hit a rock it would pop off. I put a small carabiner on the bungee courd so I cound take it completely off for the rocky sections. looking back, I put that thing through total hell. I took it through rapids, banged it off of rocks, and even rode it down a 10 foot cliff into the water. I'm lucky ii picked that one because it took the abuse I gave it and got me home.

All in all it was a good boat, didn't hold alot of gear. that meant someone else in the group had to take my pack with them. For a daytrip it would be perfect.

Edited to add: EUREKA! The name just came to me in a flash!

Look at a few sites, this one's a bit too expensive. At the outfitters they were selling the used ones for $200 canadian.

A few years ago I got a boat from New Wave Kayaks, it's called the Attitude. It's getting up there in years and was used alot before I got it. New Wave went out of business. The boat itself used to be considered a playboay before they started to get really crazy. It's just over 10 feet, and has alot of volume for a white water boat. I really don't paddle too much with it, but used it to find two caches.

It;s not reallly designed for open water so I can't recommend it for you. If you liked to go dowhstream in a very stable boat, then I'll sell it to you.

I actually went through a class four rapid with it once, I didn't know I was supposed to go around it. The instructor said that in ny other boay i would have been sucked right under with the way I hit it. The boat had enough volume to keep me out of trouble and punch right through.

Anyways, good luck

Joe Smithlink

Edited January 22, 2005 by Joe Smith

January 22, 2005

For what you describe pretty much anything that floats will do. So just look for the best deal you can find. Probably your best bet is to shop used. Check the local classifieds, and perhaps bulletin boards at local sporting goods or paddling specialty shops. HOWEVER, you must realize and understand that the basic "recreational" style boats, the likes of which are being so eagerly tossed out in this thread, are of a type that are VERY LOW PERFORNANCE and can even be considered DANGEROUS in the hands of a novice who decides to take on more challenging conditions. Recreational kayaks are not suitable for open water, whitewater, or conditions which might include such things as significant currents or wind. In other words, they are little more then pool toys. Pool toys can be a whole lot of fun on benign water - but they are still pool toys. If you are interested in doing some "real" kayaking then I suggest that you contact a kayaking specialty shop and get some instruction. Oh, BTW, I teach sea kayaking in sunny Southern California and have used a kayak to aid in finding several caches around here.

Wow, sounds like you know your stuff. Although I'm a total noob at kayaking, I do understand the points you made. I'm starting to understand that there is not a good all around kayak for everything. For what I'm looking at doing is probably alot less agressive than most of the people that are serious kayak'ers. Since I live in the middle of nebraska the nearest rapids that qualify as a "class" are in colorado and wyoming. I've been down both in a rubber raft on a guided ride and it was pretty wild; Something I don't think I want to do in a kayak by myself :laughing:

Whatever I end up buying will see small lakes and rivers 99% of the time. I would like something stable in open water. I can't see myself paddeling over 3 miles one way in a lake (here in nebraska anyway) most of our lakes are less than 3 miles in length at one point. I do want to make sure whatever boat i get is stable and can handle winds up to 20mph. I don't take my other boat out when the wind blows that much. For my budget I'm seriously considering the dagger element 11.2

Dagger Element 11.2

Mainly I chose this boat because I can drive to the next town, look it over and try it out. My only other options are the Loon series. It appears the element is fairly stable and suited for beginners to experts. I do agree with another persons opinions on buying a boat that I can grow into though. I'm trying to stick with a budget of $600 or less.

January 22, 2005

Here is the de-facto used kayak site:

http://www.boatertalk.com/gear.php

Used but not abused kayaks go for 25%-50% of new cost there.

My lady and I have bought all but one of our boats through this site.

Another place to check is local outfitters clearing out their rental fleet.

- TandS

January 22, 2005

I do have one suggestion though. Try before you buy.

By far the best advice in this thread!

Kinda goes without saying doesn’t it?

Hey that $4000. boat sure looks nice, Ill take it!

Not necessarily. Most people I've talked to that have never been in a kayak don't realize that no two kayaks handle and feel the same. Rather, they think a kayak is a kayak. When they ask me what they should look for, I tell them, don't "look", "try".

January 22, 2005

I don't really paddle flatwater but any boat by Liquidlogic will be well worth your money.

January 22, 2005

Cost is a factor. I'm not so worried about the carry weight but it does need to have at least a 350lb capacity (mostly for me - 6'7", 265), which rules out most of the inflatables I've seen.

One more thing about the Sea Eagle. It's rated for up to 500lbs/2 passengers.

Here's a link

Sea Eagle A330

New $269, Ebay- about half of that.

January 22, 2005

Recreational kayaks are not suitable for open water, whitewater, or conditions which might include such things as significant currents or wind.

In other words, they are little more then pool toys. If you are interested in doing some "real" kayaking then I suggest that you contact a kayaking specialty shop and get some instruction.

I've had my Pungo on the Chesapeake Bay a couple of times and I've taken it down the James and Rivanna rivers. No problems during any of those trips. Of course, I'm not braving an ocean storm or doing whitewater on the rivers, just some smaller rapids that I felt comfortable with given the limits of my experience and design of my kayak. I know it isn't built for certain conditions, but to call it nothing more than a "pool toy" and not a "real" kayak is insulting. When I am on the water with the paddles in my hand deciding whether to go to the right of the big rock in the river or the left, I am a real kayaker. Do you have the same attitude toward GPS recievers? Are the yellow garmins nothing more than "toys" and the people that use them aren't "real" geocachers? I see your point about doing more than your equipment is built for, but if you use the equipment within it's limits, you are every bit as "real" as the guy who is capable of doing more with better equipment..

January 22, 2005

Recreational kayaks are not suitable for open water, whitewater, or conditions which might include such things as significant currents or wind.

In other words, they are little more then pool toys. If you are interested in doing some "real" kayaking then I suggest that you contact a kayaking specialty shop and get some instruction.

I've had my Pungo on the Chesapeake Bay a couple of times and I've taken it down the James and Rivanna rivers. No problems during any of those trips. Of course, I'm not braving an ocean storm or doing whitewater on the rivers, just some smaller rapids that I felt comfortable with given the limits of my experience and design of my kayak. I know it isn't built for certain conditions, but to call it nothing more than a "pool toy" and not a "real" kayak is insulting. When I am on the water with the paddles in my hand deciding whether to go to the right of the big rock in the river or the left, I am a real kayaker. Do you have the same attitude toward GPS recievers? Are the yellow garmins nothing more than "toys" and the people that use them aren't "real" geocachers? I see your point about doing more than your equipment is built for, but if you use the equipment within it's limits, you are every bit as "real" as the guy who is capable of doing more with better equipment..

I see your point about doing more than your equipment is built for, but if you use the equipment within it's limits, you are every bit as "real" as the guy who is capable of doing more with better equipment..

I guess it's all a matter of perspective. Is they guy who spends fifteen dollars on a cheapo inflatable "kayak" at Toys-R-Us to use in his swimming pool a "real" kayaker? After all, he is using his equipment within its limits. One problem with the rec boats is that they are difficult to extremely difficult to self rescue. Most of them do not have provisions for adequate floatation and tend to fill completely with water when capsized. Have you attempted a self rescue in your Pungo?

A few years ago we had a girl who took her Pungo out of Dana Point Harbor during a period of offshore Santa Ana winds. She apparently decided to paddle outside of the harbor where she promptly blew away out to sea, never to be seen again. Rec boats can be very difficult to handle in wind and currents. I could probably paddle adverse conditions including surf and whitewater in one, but that would be more a testimony to my experience as a paddler then to the capabilities of the boat.

It is not my intention to insult the rec boat users on this list. I was simply trying to help the person who was asking about kayaks understand that not all kayaks are created equal. Like I said, pool toys can be a whole lot of fun. However, a decent "sea kayak" will do anything a rec boat can do - better! But a rec boat can't touch a decent sea kayak in performance. The only real advantage of a rec boat is that they are cheap (gee, I wonder why?) and that they are small, making them a bit easier for some folks to store and transport.

I would wager that if you were to look around a bit you could probably find a used "sea kayak" for the same price you'd pay for a new rec boat - and you would undoubtedly be much happier with it in the long run.

Kayak Suggestions

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