Not Real Geocachers?

38.2k · January 20, 2005

I've read a few times here and in some local geocaching forums that the regular forums posters aren't "real geocachers". That we're all talk and no cachin' and really aren't qualified to comment on the subject because we're always here instead of hunting caches.

I check the profiles of the top 25 (in numbers) of posters and came up with the following:

The top 25 posters average 386 logged finds each.

12 of the top 25 posters have over 300 finds.

24 of the top 25 have over 100 finds.

7 have over 500 finds and 2 have over 1,000.

They average 28 hides each.

3 have over 100 hides

9 have over 20 hides with another 2 sitting at 19.

15 have 10 or more hides

Judging from this I'd say its a myth that us forum folk aren't really geocachers and as a whole the regulars here have a pretty good amount of experience. Now excuse me, but I have to head out on a cache maintenance run.

2.2k · January 20, 2005

gotta go with the eggplant hatin' guy. i had someone 2 week ago insult me because i have a low find count. it's 149 by the way. they have no idea what my circumstances are. the "cheek" of that poster.

January 20, 2005

this is how i see it... i have 9 finds.. hee hee.. and if someone talks s*** to me about ##'s then they are a loser. who cares if i have 9 or 900.. i'm having fun here.. there will always be those too competitive people who don't get it... when you get down to it.. we're all here for fun...oh and by the way.. south korea dosen't have that many caches in the first place.. i'm sure if i lived in the land of many caches i'd have a ton more finds..

2k · January 20, 2005

To some it's all about the numbers.

I don't really care about the numbers.

There have been caches I found on summer vacation that I never did log.

Not that it would add a lot to my found count, but who really cares.

Edited January 20, 2005 by Milbank

January 20, 2005

I just started here and there are sure a lot of topics about things that seem irrelevant to finding caches. I.E. threads and posts about threads and posts.

But I still see lots of useful info. Just a view from a newbie.

January 20, 2005

So many things come into play here. I have neither a high post count (136) nor a high find count (125) or even a high hide count (4)

I am able to be on the forum only in January and February for the most part. I live in an area with not alot of hides so I must travel now sometime a good distance to get more finds. But to say it makes me any more or less a geocacher than others would be wrong. The same holds true of others.

2.7k · January 20, 2005

The forums are a lot like eggplant, some get into it and others don't.

I probably spend more time on the forums than I do in the hills. And my count is a lot lower than a lot of cachers. Does that make me a non cacher, I don't think so.

If I was a non paticipating, forum eating cacher then how do you explain all the tough caches that I have in the hills. The number of events that I've hosted, some which were designed for the newbies so they get a welcome aboard.

Maybe I should give up the forums, archive all the good ones in the hills and join the special breed of cachers, the "Drive and Baggers"!!

Well said Brian, and if you wan't some recipies for Eggplant I have lots of them.

4.8k · January 20, 2005

I tend to ignore those who make broad assumptions based on numbers. Some people may have few finds but much knowledge of the game because health issues, geography, time factors, etc. keep them from caching often. Some simply might just prefer to go grab a single cache now and then, yet love caching and take it seriously. If those people post in the forums often, who I am I to say that they are not "real" geocachers? For that matter, who is to say a new person with 1 find is not a "real" geocacher? Assuming that they found a "real" cache instead of one of those "ghost caches!"

edit: I have on rare occasion noted a person's lack of finds, or more likely lack of hides, over a long period of time and wondered because the people posted things inconsistent with the numbers. But I still don't like to make assumptions there.

Edited January 20, 2005 by carleenp

1.5k · January 20, 2005

Geocacher "gee-o-casher" (n) One who finds geocaches.

Any questions?

2.2k · January 20, 2005

Geocacher "gee-o-casher" (n) One who finds geocaches.

Any questions?

yeah! isn't it your bedtime?

#'s do not a cacher make.

1.5k · January 20, 2005

Geocacher "gee-o-casher" (n) One who finds geocaches.

Any questions?

yeah! isn't it your bedtime?

#'s do not a cacher make.

Precisely my point... 2 finds makes you a geocacher, 2000 you are still a geocacher. Assumptions based on find/hide/post counts are about as logical and accurate as the proverbial "judging a book by it's cover"!!!

January 20, 2005

hmmm... I've got about the same number of posts as I do finds at this point, and I've got 3 physical cache hides, 1 event... Does that make me less of a geocacher? I think not... Geocaching is a freetime activity for me, not a lifestyle like it is for some... I'm starting to repeat a previous post I made in another thread, so I'll just shut up now.

Happy Caching

Jeff

January 20, 2005

In my opinion a "real" geocacher:

1. Is not primarily motivated by numbers.

2. Emphasis's quality in the caches they hide.

3. Places only the amount of caches they can properly and regularly maintain.

4. Response quickly to maintenance requests.

5. Dosn't say they found the cache when they really haven't.

What they do or don't do in the forums is meaningless.

Salvelinus

2.1k · January 20, 2005

Description of Ad Hominem Tu Quoque Logical Fallacy

1 Person A makes claim X.

2 Person B asserts that A's actions are inconsistent with the truth of claim X.

3 Therefore X is false.

The fact that a person makes inconsistent claims does not make any particular claim he makes false (although of any pair of inconsistent claims only one can be true - but both can be false). Also, the fact that a person's claims are not consistent with his actions might indicate that the person is a hypocrite but this does not prove his claims are false.

In other words, even if it is true that a regular forum contributor has less geocaching experience than one of these critics, that does not invalidate their claims or discussion.

This is why I do not ever feel the need to justify myself (only my points of discussion) to other people.

1.2k · January 20, 2005

Generally I agree with everyone here, the number of finds doen't disqualify your opinion.

However, I believe that sometimes a person needs to acquire some "find" experience in order to start hiding caches. Example, we have a fairly new cacher in our area who has about six finds now. When he did his first hide he had maybe 2 finds.

When his first hide popped up I had reservations about looking for it since, in my opinion, he didn't have a rep yet. But I went out anyway in about -23 C weather. After about a half hour I gave up because his coordinates were taking me nowhere.

Later he posted a correction on his coordinates, his new coordinates were about 80 meters from his original one!!!

Plus the hide itself will probably be a problem as it's really snow that's keeping it hidden.

So, what I'm trying to say : SOME experience with finds is important as the finds give you an idea of what constitutes a good hide- valueable information when you head out to do your own hides.

2k · January 20, 2005

Another interesting stat might be how involved the top posters are with their local geocaching organizations, other on-line resources, or promoting geocaching in general.

After all what defines your contribution to the game?

A high find count means you found a lot of caches, no offense, but big deal.

Starting an Ezine about geocaching or local geocaching club means you are willing to contribute your time and energy to the advancment of geocaching. IMHO these are the people who make a difference.

January 20, 2005

Numbers really don't mean much to me. I'd rather measure a person on what they say and do. Some of the nicest, and most insightful, cachers I've met are well below 100 finds.

For some reason this thread brought the following to mind:

What do they call the person who graduated last in their class in med school?

2.2k · January 20, 2005

doctor.

1.2k · January 20, 2005

... What do they call the person who graduated last in their class in med school?

... A lawyer?

2k · January 20, 2005

Last time I checked they still call him doctor.

January 20, 2005

I've never read that from anyone, but then I haven't read every thread there is. that whole reasoning is just wierd... geocaching is geocaching and posting is posting, and the two meet ... a lot, but your posts should not be run through a filter of how many finds you've had or how long you've been caching to determine value, accuracy or authenticity of the post itself.

But I think somebody said that already. oh, well.

2.7k · January 20, 2005

Well, I've got 2, 157 career finds, 42 caches planted, and 2, 087 posts, including this one. So I do both.

January 20, 2005

Well, I've got 2, 157 career finds, 42 caches planted, and 2, 087 posts, including this one. So I do both.

Is this meant to intimidate?

January 20, 2005

I'm a little intimidated.

7.2k · January 20, 2005

What do they call the person who graduated last in their class in med school?

What do you call a pre-med student?

4.8k · January 20, 2005

... What do they call the person who graduated last in their class in med school?

... A lawyer?

No. Lawyers are those who cannot do math, and hence, could not go to medical school!

Sorry for the slight derailment, continue on now.

Do you think a person who finds ghost caches is a "real" cacher? what about a person who ghost posts more than they ghost cache?

2k · January 20, 2005

I've read a few times here and in some local geocaching forums that the regular forums posters aren't "real geocachers". That we're all talk and no cachin' and really aren't qualified to comment on the subject because we're always here instead of hunting caches.

I check the profiles of the top 25 (in numbers) of posters and came up with the following:

...

One didn't even know he was in the top 25 posters until he checked.

January 20, 2005

I just thought that I'd post that your numbers don't accuratly reflect the top 25 forum users. The average might be 386 finds and 28 hides but the median is 293 finds and 11 hides (yes its a slow day at work.) The median being a much better reflection of were the average top 25 forum user is numbers wise with half below and half above.

I'm in here quite often and I post infrequently... I've read a lot... I've skipped over a lot. I often look at profiles... number aren't everything but they do mean a little, but what is more important is what these top 25 people say with their thousands of posts. There are some names in the top 25 whose posts I will ignore on sight... there are some who post to topics for no apparant reason... useless "chatter" between forum regulars will sometimes create threads that are all but unreadable while in the middle are useful posts all but ignored.

And it doesn't help that the forums generally have a rather negative tone.

Just my 2 cents

3.9k · January 20, 2005

So, what I'm trying to say : SOME experience with finds is important as the finds give you an idea of what constitutes a good hide- valueable information when you head out to do your own hides.

When I first started there were only 3 caches in the area. I found 2 and then hid the first multiple cache in the area...not just any multiple cache, but an El Diablo multi cache. It was very well received and stayed active for over a year with a lot of positive feedback.

My point is that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to hide a cache, just some common sense and imagination. There are people out there with over a thousand finds that still hide lame caches.

Back OT...I have 75 finds and about 12 hides. I have a bad hip and a half mile hike will put me out of commission for a couple of days. So I cache every month or so.

Do I consider myself knowledgeable on caching? Yes. I've gleamed information from these forums, events, and people I talk to about caching. That along with my finds and hides puts me up there with anyone. This isn't a complicated sport/game/hobby.

El Diablo

1.2k · January 20, 2005

... What do they call the person who graduated last in their class in med school?

Hopefully NOT Dr. Lee ( my doctor )

2.2k · January 20, 2005

Do I consider myself knowledgeable on caching? Yes. I've gleamed information from these forums, events, and people I talk to about caching. That along with my finds and hides puts me up there with anyone. This isn't a complicated sport/game/hobby.

El Diablo

i have found quite a few caches because i read about similar ones in the forums.

1.2k · January 20, 2005

Don't you mean you've had caches ruined because of reading about them in the forums. My first fake reflector took me a minute to find.

2.2k · January 20, 2005

Don't you mean you've had caches ruined because of reading about them in the forums. My first fake reflector took me a minute to find.

it didn't ruin it for me. i still remembered what i had read and had to think about it. i find pleasure in all my finds. even the lightpost micros. i hope i never become so jaded that "any" find will disappoint me. i enjoy them all.

January 20, 2005

... What do they call the person who graduated last in their class in med school?

... A lawyer?

you're wrong. you call them Sir!

1.2k · January 20, 2005

It's still enjoyable, but not as satisfying. Kind of like having to phone a friend.

7.2k · January 20, 2005

Do I consider myself knowledgeable on caching? Yes. I've gleamed information from these forums, events, and people I talk to about caching. That along with my finds and hides puts me up there with anyone. This isn't a complicated sport/game/hobby.

With all due respect, this might be exactly what some folks are talking about.

There is a difference between "book smart" and "street smart." There is also a difference between theoretical application and practical application. There is also a difference between living your life vicariously and actually getting out there and doing it.

While I'm not sure what a "real" geocaching is--and I think there are actually two issues being mixed here--but being "knowledgeable" on a subject is not the same as being "expert." I could be "knowledgeable" on anatomy but that wouldn't make me a doctor. (The point I was trying to make earlier.)

So, is a "real" geocacher someone with a broad spectrum of experience? ...someone who has found a cache or two? ...spend most of their time in the forums and knows all of the theory inside and out? ...or someone who has actually found a couple hundred ranging across a multitude of styles?

I agree the theory of geocaching is pretty darn simple. But does the understanding of the theory qualify one as a "real" geocacher?

(This kind of reminds me of the crowd I used to ride with. Some would park their bikes when it got cold. The "real" riders rode all year long.)

2.2k · January 20, 2005

i guess that makes me a real geocacher then. i've cached in 3 feet of snow and below zero windchills, before i got winter boots.

January 20, 2005

I think CR has hit the nail on the head. Theory versus application.

Btw I ride with some of those same guys and I am definitely not a "real" rider as mine is put up for the winter and I will probably not be on it before April.

January 20, 2005

Experience is a strange animal. In my area there are literally hundreds of caches within 50 miles of me. Alot of those are micros or within 300 feet of a parking lot. I am not complaining. I am happy that I have so many since I do this to spend quality time with my kids and see places and things that I never knew exsisted. Now, on the other hand, take someone who lives in the Pacific Northwest. They may only have a handful within 100 miles which each take a full day to find. Now, because they have 12 finds and somebody in my area has 400 finds are you able to say that the latter has more experience? Maybe finding micros. I would venture to say that the cacher with 12 finds would certainly be more skIlled in land nav. I just think that there is more to experience than how many caches you have laid hands on.

There is my $0.02 worth. Can I have my change please?

24.7k · January 20, 2005

All I know is that my DNF ratio keeps going up the more 'experience' I get. At least I can find the reply key.

5.6k · January 20, 2005

... take someone who lives in the Pacific Northwest. They may only have a handful within 100 miles which each take a full day to find. ...

What part of the Pacific Northwest are you refering to? The nearest 500 to me are all within 15 miles. And there are denser place just a little farther out. Yes, the mountains are pretty 'bare', but they don't take up that much space.

7.2k · January 20, 2005

I just think that there is more to experience than how many caches you have laid hands on.

And thus the reason many of us subscribe to the notion that it's not about the numbers--a subject with strange nuances itself.

24.7k · January 20, 2005

I just think that there is more to experience than how many caches you have laid hands on.

And thus the reason many of us subscribe to the notion that it's not about the numbers--a subject with strange nuances itself.

Part of experience is which caches you have laid hands on. If you did one cache and it was a specific one 275 miles away, it would make one I hid where I'm at a walk in the park. For the rest it's a good source of DNF's and multiple trips.

The more caches you have done the more tricks of the trade you should have been exposed too. Then again, some people just have a knack. At the local level it's not too hard to figure out who they are.

Edited January 20, 2005 by Renegade Knight

January 20, 2005

i guess that makes me a real geocacher then. i've cached in 3 feet of snow and below zero windchills, before i got winter boots.

And I have hiked seven miles in to find a cache, uphill in waist deep snow,, in both directions.

2.2k · January 20, 2005

i guess that makes me a real geocacher then. i've cached in 3 feet of snow and below zero windchills, before i got winter boots.

And I have hiked seven miles in to find a cache, uphill in waist deep snow,, in both directions.

that must be back in the day, when there were no GPSrs, and you had to guess where they were.

January 20, 2005

I've read a few times here and in some local geocaching forums that the regular forums posters aren't "real geocachers". That we're all talk and no cachin' and really aren't qualified to comment on the subject because we're always here instead of hunting caches.

I check the profiles of the top 25 (in numbers) of posters and came up with the following:

The top 25 posters average 386 logged finds each.

12 of the top 25 posters have over 300 finds.

24 of the top 25 have over 100 finds.

7 have over 500 finds and 2 have over 1,000.

They average 28 hides each.

3 have over 100 hides

9 have over 20 hides with another 2 sitting at 19.

15 have 10 or more hides

Judging from this I'd say its a myth that us forum folk aren't really geocachers and as a whole the regulars here have a pretty good amount of experience. Now excuse me, but I have to head out on a cache maintenance run.

Would one of those two be Snoogans?

Yerocrg

3k · January 20, 2005

WoW, I'm just astounded that I made the top 25 posters and have over 400 cache finds. I say that because I haven't been spending too much time posting or caching as of late.

If I want to stay on this prestigious list I better get moving.

January 20, 2005

The question is who is a cacher and do numbers count.

Anyone who participates in the sport of hiding or finding of a cache is a geocacher. That is plain and simple.

As for numbers of caches found/hidden, they do play a part in the sport but to a lesser degree than what some people would like you to believe. Numbers don't necessarily mean someone is a better cacher nor does it mean their opinion is any more valid than anyone else. Anyone who flaunts their numbers over someone else is just beating his chest.

2.5k · January 20, 2005

All I know is that my DNF ratio keeps going up the more 'experience' I get. At least I can find the reply key.

LOL.

Some of the local cachers know that feeling.

We actually have a few members of the 1k DNF club.

Going by the initial stats, it's good to see I'm average, even if I'm not in the top 25. (I'm #64)

3k · January 20, 2005

Numbers do matter to some and not to others.

Simple

Not Real Geocachers?

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