Is There Any 4x4 Geocaches ?

January 21, 2005

Powered vehicles such as 4x4s and trail bikes have done massive damage in various areas such as the Dales and the S Pennines.We have had run ins with trailbikers churning up aN SSSI in the nesting season who later on the same day knocked a 71 year old gamekeeper down and then threw his mobile and van keys into a drain. In the Dales as far as I know greenlaning is going to be stopped because of the damage already done.As for the comments about the scientific paper quoted Iam not convinced at all.

I would hazard a guess hat banning 4x4's and trail bikes in the Dales will not stop the kind of people who will happily knock a 71 year old over and throw his keys and phone away. It won't really stop the problem.

January 21, 2005

They told me as they threatened us that they ran on false numberplates and then showered us in mud as they shot past -all 17 of them.

January 21, 2005

Below is a part of an email I sent to a fellow cacher today. Please read and consider!

I could give lectures on both side of the fence!

The Ridgeway has at present a TRO on it. (Traffic Regulation Order) till 1st April. This is to help the road repair itself during the winter months. (Emmm! Roads do their own repairs?) To make the surface flat again, it would need a Section 56 order placed on each section through the whole length. Anyone can apply for this order, ordering the council to repair them. Alternatively, work groups of users go in and repair damaged bits free of charge. This has been happening untill the councils started getting backing from the Ramblers association to get the lanes turned into overgrown footpaths, so now Work groups are classed as illegal groups damaging the surface, not repairing them. Although the councils are happy to use us as and when and where they want! (Do you see a twist?)

Going back to the Ramblers Association....The last government paper stated that off roader had approx. 2% of the whole rights of way network, Bike riders and horse riders had approx. 8% and the Ramblers 100%. That was up until the right to roam rules were applied. Off roader, Horse riders and bike riders do not have this access!

The Ridgeway here hasn't been touched for over 2 years by work groups, and has been TRO'd now since October, yet it still looks the same as it did in September, but bushier!

Blaming 4x4's is a little bias! Photographic evidence proved the Ridgeway alone, was in a worse state in 1902 than it is today. Metal cart wheels cut deep narrow ruts which erode quicker. Horse and cattle hoof prints, sink deep holes into the ground, killing grass and making a mess. (You only have to look around any working farms gateways!)

Yes! 4x4 can make ruts, but only up to 9 inches deep! some of the ruts you see on lanes are much deeper. Why 9 inches? That's the distance between the ground and the vehicles differentials. Tyres can only be so wide as well, or body work would not meet MOT and safety needs. So why have some ruts have a distance of over 5 foot between them? Not 4x4's I can tell you!

So! all in all, lane damage and repair work was undertaken, but not allowed now by user groups. The Ramblers do not clear back undergrowth, cars do! and we used to by hand.

Ramblers complain about other users churning footpaths and rights of way, but places like Glastonbury Torr which has not vehicle access, is in constant repair from walkers.(Emm! perhaps they have 4x4 tyres on their feet?)

Now for the fact bit!

I went out with the BBC on filming about lanes about 2 years or so go. Lanes that we had repaired, and also cleared of brambles etc, were now reported to have rare species of plants growing on them as the sunlight can now get back down to the ground. Also I was speaking to a geologist, who frankly couldn't care a dadgum about who uses the lanes, had me on my stomach looking at the lay of the land from a worms eye view.

It was explained that many lanes get so wet, because over centuries of ploughing, the soil is being constantly moved in one direction causing problem area's . To plough a field the turf is turned up hill, making a false drainage trench near to a hedgerow, or lane. This then floods, causing washout and making the lane erode. At the top of the hill, the turf is being placed nearer to the hedgerow or lane causing that not to drain properly either, as it acts as a moat. This in turn causes washout too!

To add insult to injury, tractors, and other traffic of all types, including walkers, churn the flooded and washed out area's into mud puddles. Hence Ruts!

But you knew that anyway, didn't you!

I do sympathise with all user groups, but there are enough open spaces of various types for all to share and use, if we are allowed to without constant bickering!

How's this for ironic! a farmer in the middle of nowhere, opened his wooded farm area for off road days, providing car cleaning facilities as you left. Someone within the Ramblers Association stated there was a footpath through the woods and that people could get hurt! (OK! good point!) The council shut the farm down for off road use and gave permission for another 4x4 site to open up (OK! one closed, one open...seems fair?)

The new site was at the back of a large housing estate on the edge of a play park for children! No public footpaths crossed the new site, so the council where happy! The council were also happy to see muddy vehicles deposit mud on the roads as they left, as the site was denied the use of a pressure washer, as it didn't have a water licence. (More than one car group refused to use the new site, due to health and safety issues involving the children and fellow road users.)

I also think that, although ruts can be mad in wet mud, the Ramblers Association think we collect the mud by the ton, and take it home to sell! The fact is, a car does get dirty in the wet, but does not take that much mud away from the mud puddle itself!

I expect soon they will say that dirty road cars are stealing road dirt! (LOL!)

So, how does a Rambler contribute to keeping lanes open?...... They refuse to maintain or repair footpaths of any kind. They want the countryside all to themselves, they never remove rubbish that has been dumped, They complain about lanes, and yet all car tax payers contribute to the upkeep of the lanes! (muddy ones or pretty nice Sunday drive type ones) So what do they do?

They do whinge a lot though!

See I told you so! I can lecture for Britain....don't get me going about the Human rights of not so able bodied peoples rights for using Greenlanes and the like! (The Ramblers couldn't give a dadgum about that group!)

I hope that it all makes sense! No-one person is out to get others, but quite rightly, some don't care about others at all, only themselves.

Vivien

(Roving Rangies) For obvious reasons!

January 21, 2005

The Ridgeway has at present a TRO on it.

Wessex Ridgeway? And a TRO means you can drive on it, any part?

How are you supposed to know that ?

Couple of weekends ago I went mooching about on the Imber Range perimeter path, took off down some tracks and ended up in 'Little Cheverell' on the B3098.

Looked for a track that would lead back up to the Imber P.P and ended up facing a steep muddy slope at N 51° 15.96 W 002° 01.708 which I had no chance of climbing in a landie with the tyres we had fitted at that time.

So I continued down the track in a Eastward direction , negotiate a tricky mud pool and rocky hill climb straight into a field at N 51° 16.010 W 002° 01.141.

Consulted the map and it seems I was on the Wessex Ridgeway. I continued up and over Strawberry hill and back onto the B3098 abut 1.5 km further along from where I left it.

Was I in breech of a TRO? Not once did I see a sign saying I could not take do this route. I never heard of the Wessex Ridgeway before.

I was planning on placing a cache in the area.

[map removed, copyright infringement]

Edited January 22, 2005 by stonefisk

1.2k · January 22, 2005

Algy - point well made. Thank you.

I am hoping that the really vitriolic "walkers only in the county" types are so extreme that no-one reasonable takes much notice and maybe they are also quite aged, so in due course the proportion of intolerants will diminish.

We have to hope that the rogues create new intolerants at a lower rate, or that newly upset people understand that whatever sport an idiot does, he's still an idiot. Some walkers* climb over dry stone walls causing damage to the walls and the ancient lichens that grow on them - it's a shame, in some respects, that the dry stone wall lobby is so small.

Interesting stats in Vivians article. Actually the whole post was interesting.

Adrian

*funny, I didn't feel tempted to say ALL walkers.

3.7k · January 22, 2005

Dear off-road-motorised-geocaching friends :laughing: .

I don't want to get into a dispute about whether off-road transport to reach geocaches is suitable or not, or whether walkers will be inconvenienced by it. Particularly I'd avoid the general "walkers vs. off-road drivers" debate which can get very heated (as I've found elsewhere).

It's too divisive a topic for this forum, in my opinion, and won't be resolved here - there are more suitable places for the discussion.

Let's keep things friendly and agree that it's not a perfect situation. I don't happen to do off-roading (or whatever the preferred term is), but prefer getting around on foot once the tarmac has come to an end. If other geocachers do want to drive on in such situations (legally), I'm happy to look away in the interests of peace and harmony and leave it to other groups to debate the rights and wrongs.

The link here is humbly offered merely to illustrate the damage done by wheels on a particular long-distance way - it's just what I saw. If you don't think it's too bad, then fair enough. In any case, it's only offered to assist understanding of a walker's view.

HH

January 22, 2005

Could I respectfully point out that apart from a small section of track leading off the B3098 near Duntsey's School which is clearly marked as a Byway (open to all vehicular traffic), you appear to have driven on a Bridle Path where vehicles are not allowed and along tracks marked as having no public right of way.

Maybe the lack of signage pointing out the TRO was because no vehicles would be expected to use those tracks.

1.3k · January 22, 2005

As to expressing the view of the walkers in this somewhat contentious issue might I add my tuppence worth. There are IMHO other issues relating to the unecessary use of motorised vehicles in the countryside besides the damage that they may or may not cause. Among the many things I, and probably many more, enjoy when out walking/geocaching is the peace and quiet being broken only by natures sounds and the occasional farm animals. I find the unnatural sound of an engine intrusive to the this calm. Then there are the smells of the countryside; wild flowers; the strong scent of vegetation as a thunderstorm cell approaches. I don't believe anyone would regard exhaust fumes as a suitable accompaniment to these. I certainly don't. These are, of course, aspects of a walk in the country that cannot be appreciated from within a rattling tin box cocooned from the world by windows so perhaps this is why they appear to be overlooked by our four-wheeled brethren.

Having said the above, we tolerate these intrusions on the grounds of each to their own. I cannot understand why anyone would want to drive rather than walk in the countryside but people do seem to enjoy it and I think that our freedom is being eaten away at an alarming rate as it is.

Martin

1.7k · January 22, 2005

Having said the above, we tolerate these intrusions on the grounds of each to their own. I cannot understand why anyone would want to drive rather than walk in the countryside but people do seem to enjoy it and I think that our freedom is being eaten away at an alarming rate as it is.

Martin

Yes our freedooms are being taken away! But to answer the other point, Vivians words

See I told you so! I can lecture for Britain....don't get me going about the Human rights of not so able bodied peoples rights for using Greenlanes and the like! (The Ramblers couldn't give a dadgum about that group!)

and in other posts, says it alll! She and others, are unable to access areas, were others walk, without some form of mechanical help! Can you see a electric scooter geting there?

I have 2 members of my family, who have CFS, large areas of the countryside are not open to them either! But we tolerate this situation!

Dave

January 22, 2005

The Ridgeway has at present a TRO on it.

Wessex Ridgeway? And a TRO means you can drive on it, any part?

Right! I see what you are getting at.

Firstly, I was on about the Ridgeway that runs from just south east of Avebury in Wiltshire to just past Tring in Hertfordshire.

Anyway! if a lane has a TRO on it and yet you can not see any visible evidence of a notice, then in theory it can be driven, as you were not informed otherwise... BUT! be prepared for a battle if you are caught, trying to prove your innocents.

Do you belong to a 4x4 club, that has connections to Glass, or the ARC? These clubs usually have definative maps of the area. Either that, you contact Wiltshire County Council at Trowbridge, they will let you spend 2 days in their enterance hall, copying there maps to yours. I have done this, it is a task I am pleased I have done, but it took so long!

Even if a lane is marked on a map, it needn't be gosple that it is drivable now. It takes approx 2 years for the maps to be set and printed, so they usually are out of date before they are sold.

Hope this helps! Do you live in the Wiltshire Area?

Vivien

(Roving Rangies)

Edited January 22, 2005 by Roving Rangies

1.3k · January 22, 2005

She and others, are unable to access areas, were others walk, without some form of mechanical help! Can you see a electric scooter geting there?

and a quote from my post

relating to the unecessary use of motorised vehicles in the countryside

I would certainly not regard the access by motorised vehicles for the disabled as Unecessary Far from it. I do care about access for disabled folks and did not wish to suggest otherwise. Please forgive me if I did.

Martin

January 22, 2005

Could I respectfully point out that apart from a small section of track leading off the B3098 near Duntsey's School which is clearly marked as a Byway (open to all vehicular traffic), you appear to have driven on a Bridle Path where vehicles are not allowed and along tracks marked as having no public right of way.

Maybe the lack of signage pointing out the TRO was because no vehicles would be expected to use those tracks.

Thankyou , I made a mistake, and followed farmer access route, in error.

January 22, 2005

...... I was just wondering if there were any GC's hidden on routes accesable by 4X4 vehicles ? As I think this would be fun too !

I'm sure they all are......but,

If you want somewhere where four wheel drive is actually required, try the middle east.

1.3k · January 22, 2005

The link here is humbly offered merely to illustrate the damage done by wheels on a particular long-distance way - it's just what I saw. If you don't think it's too bad, then fair enough. In any case, it's only offered to assist understanding of a walker's view.

I am truly horrified by those pictures. I have seen similar damage around Loch Leven (The one closest to Geln Coe, not the one near Kinross) done by off road motor cyclists. That was a very real scar on the scenery also. This is unecessary!

Martin

1.7k · January 22, 2005

I would certainly not regard the access by motorized vehicles for the disabled as Unnecessary Far from it. I do care about access for disabled folks and did not wish to suggest otherwise. Please forgive me if I did.

"YOU FORGIVEN" :lol:

The problem is, we are all discussing a issue, caused by a very small minority, that is manging to split the opinion of an enviromently friendly group .

As to the answer who knows, but I would point out, that the Police now have the legal power, to confiscate any vehicle being used in an illegal manner off road. So if you see a bike, 4x4, or any other vehicle and that now includes quads, please ring the police, and give an accurate description as possible!

Dave

January 23, 2005

Could I respectfully point out that apart from a small section of track leading off the B3098 near Duntsey's School which is clearly marked as a Byway (open to all vehicular traffic), you appear to have driven on a Bridle Path where vehicles are not allowed and along tracks marked as having no public right of way.

Maybe the lack of signage pointing out the TRO was because no vehicles would be expected to use those tracks.

Thankyou , I made a mistake, and followed farmer access route, in error.

Scrooge, forgive me for butting in here. Although the lane is marked as a bridleway, it is also clearly marked as an access lane to farm buildings etc. I have a very clear definative map from Wiltshire County Council which confirms this. However, yes it is not an open right of way for vehicles, but access is available for the farmer, so is actually more than a green swathe of grass.

It would be up to the farmer to decide if there has been an offence committed here and NOT the council!

Sorry to put you right about this issue, but I thought it fair, as those that live away form the area may think that Stonefisk crossed a field etc, and not taken care to keep to a farm access track!

Vivien

January 23, 2005

As to expressing the view of the walkers in this somewhat contentious issue might I add my tuppence worth. There are IMHO other issues relating to the unecessary use of motorised vehicles in the countryside besides the damage that they may or may not cause. Among the many things I, and probably many more, enjoy when out walking/geocaching is the peace and quiet being broken only by natures sounds and the occasional farm animals. I find the unnatural sound of an engine intrusive to the this calm. Then there are the smells of the countryside; wild flowers; the strong scent of vegetation as a thunderstorm cell approaches. I don't believe anyone would regard exhaust fumes as a suitable accompaniment to these. I certainly don't. These are, of course, aspects of a walk in the country that cannot be appreciated from within a rattling tin box cocooned from the world by windows so perhaps this is why they appear to be overlooked by our four-wheeled brethren.

Having said the above, we tolerate these intrusions on the grounds of each to their own. I cannot understand why anyone would want to drive rather than walk in the countryside but people do seem to enjoy it and I think that our freedom is being eaten away at an alarming rate as it is.

Martin

Team Maddie!

I choose to rattle about in my tin box, because i can't walk too far. Now! as for the sense in box's against walking!

I can now go further than the end of my street.

I don't have to hide in a bramble bush to get out of the sudden rain storm! (UK weather, don't you just love it?)

On a trip out I use as much GAS! yes! LPG as a family having a barbeque on a Sunday afternoon! So where is my polution?

I can enjoy a sport...just like Geocaching, along with the rest of my friends.

I help organise trips out in the countryside for not so able bodied people! (Sorry! I can't give people piggy backs to see fantastic views like an able bodied person could if they could carry someone that far, that is!

I too can enjoy myself, in my way! Thats the only way available to me!

When I was a fully able bodied person, I use to hate being followed by some noisey twit with a radio blareing away for miles, hearing them shout and scream! now when I'm in my car, I will stop and let people pass, I also pass people in a safe place, leaving them to enjoy the counrtyside, not pester them for a long time!

I think everyone has a point about manners and respect...but while stupid idiots from both side of the fence continue to tip the balance, this will never happen.

(Please note: I said BOTH sides of the fence!)

January 23, 2005

Where I do a lot of my walking there is not any right of way for 4x4s.or motorbikes because it is a very wet moorland area part of which is an SSSI and this is where we come across these motorised hooligans tearing across the open areas.I am sure that Range Rovies thinks that this not is the thing to do.In various places they also knocked down walls to gain extra entrances onto this area.They are aggressive and do not care at what damage they do. Reporting them to the police has been done on many occaissions but they have very little chance of catching them.

As for four wheeled vehicles I see enough of them on the roads and go walking off road in the countryside to get some peace and quiet. After walking in the dales and seeing at first hand the damage done by 4x4s I find it hard to think of too many reasons for them to be there. The case of Range Rovies as she well knows makes her a special case but I do not feel this applies to every 4x4 owner. <_<

Edited January 23, 2005 by The Hungry Caterpillars

January 23, 2005

Have a look at GCJ3YY, North Fen it's in Cambridgeshire but was set by a 4x4 club.

What part of Beds are you in CC?

Nick

Hope you have a decent 4x4 and not one of those lookalikes for this one, we did it by foot yesterday and that was hard enough.

January 23, 2005

Where I do a lot of my walking there is not any right of way for 4x4s.or motorbikes because it is a very wet moorland area part of which is an SSSI and this is where we come across these motorised hooligans tearing across the open areas.I am sure that Range Rovies thinks that this not is the thing to do.In various places they also knocked down walls to gain extra entrances onto this area.They are aggressive and do not care at what damage they do. Reporting them to the police has been done on many occaissions but they have very little chance of catching them.
As for four wheeled vehicles I see enough of them on the roads and go walking off road in the countryside to get some peace and quiet. After walking in the dales and seeing at first hand the damage done by 4x4s I find it hard to think of too many reasons for them to be there. The case of Range Rovies as she well knows makes her a special case but I do not feel this applies to every 4x4 owner.

I think that shows my point neatly. They are playing in places that they are already banned from. What makes you tink this will improve if you ban them from everywhere?

Soon I won't be allowed to take my vehicle out of the drive. I get slated for driving to the supermarket, slated if I drop the kids off at school, London want to ban t from their streets, and ramblers want to stop me using it off road. Stuffed no matter what !!

:huh:

January 23, 2005

Who is saying ban them from everywhere? Not me or anybody else who has commented on this thread as far as I can see.

January 23, 2005

Stuffed no matter what !!

Ever thought about getting a bus pass??? (j/k )

New thread: Are there any caches you can do on the bus?

January 23, 2005

Stuffed no matter what !!

Ever thought about getting a bus pass??? (j/k )

New thread: Are there any caches you can do on the bus?

Now don't get me started on buses Bit thin on the ground in the countryside. Besides, they would make a right old mess of the greenlanes

January 23, 2005

Who is saying ban them from everywhere? Not me or anybody else who has commented on this thread as far as I can see.

Sorry. I meant that outburst in the general trend towards banning 4x4's. Your comment about people tearing up fences and sssi illustrated that banning off roading just kills off the caring and considerate ones. The ones hat are intent on tearing up the ground etc will continue to break the law as they do now.

Didn't mean youwere advocating banning 4x4's

January 23, 2005

QUOTE=

Soon I won't be allowed to take my vehicle out of the drive. I get slated for driving to the supermarket, slated if I drop the kids off at school, London want to ban t from their streets, and ramblers want to stop me using it off road. Stuffed no matter what !!

Emm! Hubby came up with a perfectly good reason for ownig a 4x4 vehicle of any discription.

Global Warming!

Yep! thats right! Global warming....he states that if the water levels rise, a normal vehicle hasn't a chance in deeper than 2 inches.

If It keeps flooding.... how would we all move around the country.....we would have islands! Arh! more chance for the govement to make money..building bridges to high ground and charging you to use them!

If the countries econimc state stays the same, 4x4's will be the only suitable transport to move people around the country on very poorly maintained roads. (Just like the new new Panda 4x4 advert!)

I still think the sky is the only future of holding a transport network. I personally think Hot Air Ballons should be issued to ever house, and used for everyday commuting. There is enough wasted hot air from argueing people, so it would form a cheap alternative form of transport with minimum air pollution.

January 23, 2005

There is enough wasted hot air from argueing people, so it would form a cheap alternative form of transport with minimum air pollution.

you been spying on our house or what

January 23, 2005

There is enough wasted hot air from argueing people, so it would form a cheap alternative form of transport with minimum air pollution.

you been spying on our house or what

I didn't peep! I promise.

I only stopped because of the thermals rising! :huh:

2.3k · January 24, 2005

Here's a story for you then - last weekend we went up to Cave Dale in Castleton, Derbys on the hunt for the Cave Dale Cache.

We nearly didin't make it because a good few hundred yards of the bridleway was churned up so badly that it was difficult to pass even in sturdy walking boots.

The reason for the damage to the track? It was caused by whatever vehicle the two farm hands who were repairing the Dry Stone Wall were being supplied materials to carry out their job!

January 24, 2005

Here's a story for you then - last weekend we went up to Cave Dale in Castleton, Derbys on the hunt for the Cave Dale Cache.

We nearly didin't make it because a good few hundred yards of the bridleway was churned up so badly that it was difficult to pass even in sturdy walking boots.

The reason for the damage to the track? It was caused by whatever vehicle the two farm hands who were repairing the Dry Stone Wall were being supplied materials to carry out their job!

I can imagine that to be a right mess. Cave Dale is on porous rock too, so the ground shouldn't be all that wet!

January 24, 2005

Here's a story for you then - last weekend we went up to Cave Dale in Castleton, Derbys on the hunt for the Cave Dale Cache.

We nearly didin't make it because a good few hundred yards of the bridleway was churned up so badly that it was difficult to pass even in sturdy walking boots.

The reason for the damage to the track? It was caused by whatever vehicle the two farm hands who were repairing the Dry Stone Wall were being supplied materials to carry out their job!

I can imagine that to be a right mess. Cave Dale is on porous rock too, so the ground shouldn't be all that wet!

Have you got eveidence of them causing the damage?

If so take it to the local council. It may be worth a visit to the council to let them know about the state of the Bridleway...alternatively, ask about the bridleway being repaired, like I said, local councils are obliged to maintain such routes.

January 24, 2005

...... I was just wondering if there were any GC's hidden on routes accesable by 4X4 vehicles ? As I think this would be fun too !

I'm sure they all are......but,

If you want somewhere where four wheel drive is actually required, try the middle east.

May I suggest that when you have something interesting to say , you log on and add it to the forum.

When you are bored and try to make up some funny / sarcastic post .....keep it to yourself.

Your not really adding to the discussion , just wasting webspace and users time to read your useless comment.

1.7k · January 24, 2005

So far this thread has been remarkably free of "personal" comment, despite concerning a topic which traditionally has produced some very polarised opinions. I have been very heartened by this.

Please let's try and keep it that way.

3.9k · January 24, 2005

/me ducks for cover

January 24, 2005

So far this thread has been remarkably free of "personal" comment, despite concerning a topic which traditionally has produced some very polarised opinions. I have been very heartened by this.

Please let's try and keep it that way.

Sorry , but that was not a personal attack, merely pointing out that most of the people on this thread have added some constructive comments.

The 4x4 argument invokes alot of anger on both sides of the fence, this was never supposed to be about that argument , just a thread to ask experienced GC'ers where I could find such locations.

A few points I have thought of while reading through my thread:-

1) I walk and I drive , both methods provide a challenge.

2) Its only mud

3) Grass grows back

Thats all I am going to say on this thread as I got the info I was after ( thanks to those who gave it ) and all thats going to be discused now is how harmful or not my car is, I do not care for such matters.

Have fun and stay fluffy. :sad:

January 25, 2005

/me ducks for cover

Curious at that reply?

Whats wrong with Trees for cover? When caching, they make excellent hidey holes from Mugglers!

Just a thought....if hot air ballons were a mode of transport, how on earth would we manage to geocache, I suppose we would have to have caches on helium balloons to hunt for!

January 25, 2005

...... I was just wondering if there were any GC's hidden on routes accesable by 4X4 vehicles ? As I think this would be fun too !

I'm sure they all are......but,

If you want somewhere where four wheel drive is actually required, try the middle east.

May I suggest that when you have something interesting to say , you log on and add it to the forum.

When you are bored and try to make up some funny / sarcastic post .....keep it to yourself.

Your not really adding to the discussion , just wasting webspace and users time to read your useless comment.

Hmm, only just logged back on to find this little outburst!

Didn't realise I had to run things past you for editorial comment prior to posting. I'll try and remember for next time. :rolleyes:

I thought my comment was interesting (and if not interesting to you, at least relevant to the OP)- I've cached in UK and I've cached in the middle east – I’ve never needed a 4WD to cache in UK – I’ve often needed one in the middle east.

And FWIW, I had two V8 Discos so I am not anti 4WD (if that was your impression)!

You have a nice day now..... <_<

January 26, 2005

When Ramblers attack...

Edited January 26, 2005 by stonefisk

1.2k · January 26, 2005

ooh, look at the coordination - 4wd colour and sweatshirt. Lovely, I never realised the sartorial obligations of 4wd ownership.

When I eventually get a Discovery I'll have to make sure I get black. Black clothes make me look thinner, whereas silver... you don't want to see me in silver. :lol:

Edited January 26, 2005 by Kitty Hawk

January 26, 2005

ooh, look at the coordination - 4wd colour and sweatshirt. Lovely, I never realised the sartorial obligations of 4wd ownership.

When I eventually get a Discovery I'll have to make sure I get black. Black clothes make me look thinner, whereas silver... you don't want to see me in silver.

Black shows the dirt tho!

I have 3 Range Rovers, One of them is what they call Sahara Dust..it is the best coloured car I have ever owned!

It never shows the dirt up too bad, even when it hasn't been cleaned for a year. Infact, if I had the money, I would respray the others the same colour too!

By the way, Disco's are usually dearer to by than a Range Rover! Same cost to run tho!

1.3k · January 26, 2005

Roving Rangies,

I just logged in and saw your post concerning my own little diatribe about the 4x4's etc. Please note that I had already accepted the real need for the use of these vehicles in respect of handicapped folks etc. in a post prior to your own. I'm sorry that you hadn't read that and that my comments had also given you offence.

Martin

1.2k · January 26, 2005

By the way, Disco's are usually dearer to by than a Range Rover! Same cost to run tho!

I'm after a newish one to replace my Laguna so 2 or 3 years old max. Range Rovers won't fit the budget at that age I shouldn't have thought - I'll check though :lol:

You may gather, my offroading won't be too extreme, although I did get some lessons for Christmas so hopefully I'll know exactly where I can and can't go and how to drive as ecologically as possible.

Roll on May when the finance on the Laguna finishes.

Adrian

January 26, 2005

I have 3 Range Rovers, One of them is what they call Sahara Dust..i

hmmm Sahara Dust... Is that out of the same paintpot as Austin Allegro mustard ? :lol:

Edited January 26, 2005 by stonefisk

1.4k · January 26, 2005

I concur with Team Maddie's point about 4x4/quads being an appropriate way for some disabled folk to access some parts of the countryside.

An alternative and very eco-friendly way to access the backcountry which is unsuitable for 2-wheel drive vehicles is to rent a horse.

Horses can access lots of places which are too tricky for the heavy metal. They are self-refuelling. They also have an inbuilt trackback feature which enables them to navigate their way home when the pilot has made a complete arse of the navigation on the outbound leg of the journey.

They (horses, not pilots) are intrinsically eco-friendly as they output no more CO2 than they ingest as fodder; and other than an occasional fart they don't output much in the way of greenhouse gasses other than a bit of methane from the blunt end. Most of their exhaust material is actually beneficial to the land. (I'm talking about horses, not pilots)

Other than an occasional whinny when they want a Polo mint (horses, not pilots); and the aforementioned gas venting, they don't make much noise at all (unlike co-pilots). They don't even make that irritating clicking sound that reindeer do with their toes.

Elephants are a suitable substitute for horses, but much more difficult to rent on this side of the tropic of Cancer. That's a pity, as they can easily be trained to pick up tupperware from the ground and pass it to a rider with an over the shoulder flick of the trunk.

Camels have their uses too, but that's a whole 'nuther thread.

(Don't even get me started on sheep. That's much too topical right now!)

Cheers, The Forester

Former trainer of: three elephants; a Bactrian camel; six Lipizzaner stallions; four Shetland ponies; two llamas; and a Border Collie

January 26, 2005

I concur with Team Maddie's point about 4x4/quads being an appropriate way for some disabled folk to access some parts of the countryside.

To be honest, I feel that this oft-touted argument is abhorrent in the extreme. It's a nice little convenient pull-the-heartstrings way out of a largely indefensible activity.

I agree that access should be allowed to all. Therefore how about the following?

Severely restricting the use of off-road vehicles so more byways can be actually walked upon by people who aren't capable of rough trail walking. While I would be happy to traipse through mud, it takes care, balance and is very energy sapping and not all people may be capable of doing it.

Issuing of a disabled badge system and a network of carefully managed routes so those with more severe moblity issues can enjoy the country too.

1.7k · January 26, 2005

An alternative and very eco-friendly way to access the backcountry which is unsuitable for 2-wheel drive vehicles is to rent a horse.

Have you seen the mess those horses make of bridleways, cutting them up into mudbaths. I reckon we should ban those too. :lol:

Edited January 26, 2005 by SlytherinAlex

1.3k · January 26, 2005

An alternative and very eco-friendly way to access the backcountry which is unsuitable for 2-wheel drive vehicles is to rent a horse.

In view of my upcoming trip to Blackpool and Lynn's inability to get around much due to her severe medical problems, does anyone know of any caches in the area which are donkey accessible? I hear there are a few available for rent there :lol:

Martin

2.3k · January 26, 2005

Have you got eveidence of them causing the damage?

No - didn't see it happening. Just where they had got to in the wall was where the tracks stopped and there was a small pile of dry cement at various intervals along the 'trench'.

In case anyone was wondering (I was) is it ok to cement the top stones onto a drystone wall??????? :lol:

Edited January 26, 2005 by The Hokesters

January 26, 2005

Roving Rangies,
I just logged in and saw your post concerning my own little diatribe about the 4x4's etc. Please note that I had already accepted the real need for the use of these vehicles in respect of handicapped folks etc. in a post prior to your own. I'm sorry that you hadn't read that and that my comments had also given you offence.

Martin

No Offence taken, but when are you going to get a Disco? It would be grate for you to be taken out and about and given a Good time in your own vehicle.

January 26, 2005

I have 3 Range Rovers, One of them is what they call Sahara Dust..i

hmmm Sahara Dust... Is that out of the same paintpot as Austin Allegro mustard ?

Nope! That is like Baharma Gold, like my off roader was! I call it nappy yellow! :lol:

Sahara dust is e very light biege based on a green pigment, so great for ordinary dries mud as its the say colour...with the exception of a few places like Wales, who's mud is mainly RED!

January 26, 2005

By the way, Disco's are usually dearer to by than a Range Rover! Same cost to run tho!

I'm after a newish one to replace my Laguna so 2 or 3 years old max. Range Rovers won't fit the budget at that age I shouldn't have thought - I'll check though

You may gather, my offroading won't be too extreme, although I did get some lessons for Christmas so hopefully I'll know exactly where I can and can't go and how to drive as ecologically as possible.

Roll on May when the finance on the Laguna finishes.

Adrian

A clasic would range between 1970-1994 £200-£5,000

A Second Gen P38a between 1994- 2002 £6,000-£24,000

A 3rd Gen between 2002 - 2005 £26,000-£98,000

The new Sport due out this June will be £36,000-£58,000

Hope these price guides help!

Is There Any 4x4 Geocaches ?

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