Cache Attributes

1.6k · January 18, 2005

Just in case people don't look at the other topic, here's Jeremy announcing the new website feature.

MarcB

January 18, 2005

Great, a new feature for dumb people who either can't/won't read or can't judge situations for themselves.

How pointless.

1.6k · January 18, 2005

Great, a new feature for dumb people who either can't/won't read or can't judge situations for themselves.

How pointless.

I've got to admit Davester, you do have a point here... I for one won't be using all the attributes on my caches as it kind of takes away the surprise of caching.

MarcB

3.7k · January 18, 2005

It might not seem much use at the moment, but when it becomes searchable I think it'll become worthwhile (e.g. search for all caches with wheelchair access, or exclude the ones where special equipment is required, or only show ones where parking is nearby).

HH

1k · January 18, 2005

How do actually agree to the disclaimer! theres no agree button on it :rolleyes:

edit: Oh I seeeeeeeeeeeee, its all clear now.... *blushes*

This is a good new feature in my opinion! and way better than the 3rd party one that is floating around.

Edited January 18, 2005 by Ben Pid

January 18, 2005

I like Davester thought that it was a bit pointless but then on trying on my latest, and keeping it to a minimum I 'll go along with MarcB. But then if you can read a map who needs attributes anyway. Back agreeing with davester.

1.6k · January 18, 2005

Yeah, poison plants on my caches? Do you *really* need a symbol to tell you that?

:rolleyes:

MarcB

2.3k · January 18, 2005

Yeah, poison plants on my caches? Do you *really* need a symbol to tell you that?

MarcB

Oh no, not US-centric again surely?

Hang on - isn't Giant Hogwart poisonous? Oh yeah only if attacked with a strimmer - therefore we in the UK need a symbol for poisonous plants near cache if caching with a strimmer!

Actually I think it is a useful feature and would support it and Jeremy has opened it up for discussion so if you want to have a go or suggest alternative icons feel free

Edited January 18, 2005 by The Hokesters

January 18, 2005

The challenge now is to place a cache that needs all options selecting!

3.8k · January 18, 2005

you can only have 10 max

January 18, 2005

So what was wrong with the selector thingy then? That seemed to work ok.

2.9k · January 18, 2005

I contributed to the thread on attributes and went back and checked. 5- 8 requests for Camera in cache icon.

no icon on list.

As ever very USA in flavour. :rolleyes:

They will be searchable and filterable with gsak etc so thats a good thing. otherwise i still like the selector better as you can add add add to your hearts content. Have updated MY cache pages anyway.

6.2k · January 18, 2005

Well, that's one of my cache pages amended - just another sixty-odd to go. It's going to be a long night...

SP

January 19, 2005

Although I think the attributes is a good thing, I'm worried it might lead to some possible problems. For example, my children (2 and 7) have done all of the caches we've set (when we set them) and for most of them I've classified them as children friendly - but my children are pretty adventurous (they have to be!!), if someone else does one of our caches with their small children and they feel it is inappropriate, they might feel like I have been misleading them and not be too happy.

Same for some of the other attributes - for example one person's long hike is another's stroll, one person might finish the cache in 10 minutes, another mght take 2 hours. One person's mountain is another's molehill.

I think these attributes could potentailly put people off attempting caches, they should clearly be marked as a rough guide only.

It's a bit black and white, e.g. children friendly is definitely yes or definitely no, what does the absence of a symbol mean - leave it up to your discretion? It's neither yes or no?

John

January 19, 2005

Major benefit for me is the under 1 hour icon which is very helpful when planning n dong a multi with an unkown distance! Not sure how many of the other icons I will refer to but more information is better than less.

I share the query on the carpark though - how close is close? I notice that many UK caches give the coords of the car park which is even more useful.

Peter

3.9k · January 19, 2005

I share the query on the carpark though - how close is close? I notice that many UK caches give the coords of the car park which is even more useful.

Two problems with this:

It's not a separate fiedl in the GPXs so it's a manual job to map it.

By the time you've put it on the map yourself, 9 times out of 10, you've found somewhere better to park anyway. I very rarely park at the given coords, they're usually too far away from the cache

1.7k · January 19, 2005

I don't think we'll be using it. There's no substitute for reading the description and checking a map. We already have difficulty and terrain which give enough of a hint on how suitable a cache is for someone.

T

January 19, 2005

I find the little dog icon particularly helpful as I do most of my caching with my Black Labrador who is rather too large and heavy to be lifted over too many stiles.

I have done a lot of caching in N Yorkshire where they have ladder type stiles to help walkers/ramblers get over dry stone walls easily and some of them are quite high. I had to turn back on a couple of occasions because I couldn't get my dog over them. They don't show up on OS maps and unless the cache owner has mentioned them in the cache description, there's no way of knowing if you're going to come across one or not!

January 19, 2005

Many of the UK cachers include most of the information suggested for the icons in the text of their cache description - for which we thank you!

Peter

6.2k · January 19, 2005

I've used the symbols to outline specific features of interest to cachers. For example my Missing Cacher cache *should* be done at night, so I added the recommended at night symbol. My Giants of Bekonscot cache *isn't* available all year round or 24/7 but *is* designed to be a great one for kids so I added those symbols. A couple of my caches are all about the views, so I added the scenic view symbol to them. Another in Oxford needs a boat to get to it, so I've added that too. One symbol I feel strongly about is the disabled one. I've added it to a few of my caches which are accessible from top-to-tail (e.g. including retrieving the cache) and used the unsuitable icon for anything where you can't even do the access to the cache area bit.

If I feel a bit 'wishy-washy' about how an icon relates to my caches I'll not add it, it's as simple as that. Since these attributes are searchable, I think they're useful, especially if you want a specific challenge, or have specific limitations.

SP

Edited January 19, 2005 by Simply Paul

3.9k · January 19, 2005

I find the little dog icon particularly helpful as I do most of my caching with my Black Labrador who is rather too large and heavy to be lifted over too many stiles.

We had a prison trained German Shepherd when I was a kid. I tell ya what, no stile was a match for him. I suppose if you're trained to scale 10' vertical wooden walls with only a few slats for grip, then a ladder is a luxury

1.7k · January 19, 2005

I find the little dog icon particularly helpful as I do most of my caching with my Black Labrador who is rather too large and heavy to be lifted over too many stiles.

I can relate to that. :smile:

2.3k · January 20, 2005

I find the little dog icon particularly helpful as I do most of my caching with my Black Labrador who is rather too large and heavy to be lifted over too many stiles.

I can relate to that.

Ever come across a 6 foot Stone Wall with half brick foothold extrusions on either side of the wall?

Try to get a 20kg Collie Cross to scale one of those.

(There is one on the way to 'Beyond Peter's Stone' and 'Petrus' in the village of Litton).

1.8k · January 20, 2005

I only added the symbols that unambiguously apply to my caches. I applied the wheelchair accessable symbol where the cache is next to a path and easily retreavable from a wheelchair.

Note it is described as a wheelchair accessable symbol, and not a general disability symbol. The two things are by no means equivalent.

As all my caches are in Royal Parks in Central London, the Snowmobiles Not Allowed symbol was tempting!

1.7k · January 20, 2005

I find the little dog icon particularly helpful as I do most of my caching with my Black Labrador who is rather too large and heavy to be lifted over too many stiles.

We had a prison trained German Shepherd when I was a kid. I tell ya what, no stile was a match for him. I suppose if you're trained to scale 10' vertical wooden walls with only a few slats for grip, then a ladder is a luxury

I was going to add this one to many of ours as Chester (a largish German Shepard) has been to all of them. But I had a rethink as 1) the symbol is for dogs allowed, not dog friendly and 2) if it did mean dog friendly, this would be very subjective as dogs vary so much in size and fitness ie not much will stop Chester but an unfit / elderly dog would struggle on most styles and a Chihuahua could be carried around.

January 20, 2005

So what is the conclusion do we use the dog icon if there are styles which do not have lift gates or gaps for dogs?

We take our son's dog for walks and she would have no trouble with a stile but I a seeking guidanc from a majority of dog owners.

Peter

3.8k · January 20, 2005

As I cache with a dog most of the time. I would rather be told where he could NOT go. (as in dogs are banned) He can get to most place I can. and is faster over walls than me.

Edited January 20, 2005 by Deego

January 20, 2005

I think that Phillimore Clan have a very valid point in that the symbol only states that dogs are permitted and not necessarily that the walk is dog friendly i.e. no stiles.

I guess, if you're unsure about a cache and how friendly it might be for your particular breed of dog, a quick email to the owner asking the question before you set out might be one way around the problem.

2.3k · January 20, 2005

I concur - it is where they are 'Allowed' to go but not necessarily able.

3.7k · January 20, 2005

I'd go along with Simply Paul's interpretation, i.e. only add icons where significant, and ignore those that are "neutral" for your cache. So if dogs are not banned from accessing the site but the approach is not particularly dog-friendly (except for those that can be carried, or a Rutson super-hound), no icon. If it looks like a great dog-walk and you know that they are permitted, select the dog icon.

On the "disabled access" - perhaps it's enough to assume that the disabled cacher (in a wheelchair) will be accompanied by a more able-bodied assistant, but would at least want to get within a few feet of the cache. There can't be that many caches where the container and approach are both completely suitable for access. If I was forced into wheelchair-only caching it would be fantastic to be have a list of ones where I could get close enough to point at the likely hiding place from six feet away, even if the actual box is out of reach. This category would also be handy if you're trying to sneak a cache in, on a walk with elderly relatives! (two types of Handi-caching).

HH

January 20, 2005

Hi all,

Sorry to sound stupid (I am new) What is an attribute?

3.7k · January 20, 2005

Bunny,

Here's one with them set - look at the top right, where there are three symbols, and hover the mouse over them.

HH

3.9k · January 20, 2005

Ask Pyoung1s to show you

Seriously it's a new feature, look at the top right of some cache listings like:

this one

Whoops, I advertised, my bad.

1.4k · January 20, 2005

What good is a cache where you cant take your dog? Apart from caches placed in Restaurants & shops I cant actually think of many places where you cant take a dog on a lead.

I added the dog symble to any of our cache where it would be a nice walk with the dog so the central london ones dont have any..

Chris

January 20, 2005

May require swimming

2.3k · January 20, 2005

What good is a cache where you cant take your dog? Apart from caches placed in Restaurants & shops I cant actually think of many places where you cant take a dog on a lead.

I added the dog symble to any of our cache where it would be a nice walk with the dog so the central london ones dont have any..

Chris

Hmm - good point. Don't think I have done any where Hokes couldn't go. Apart from Anglemarken or whatever it's called

3.9k · January 20, 2005

May require swimming

May do, may not.

January 20, 2005

I'd go along with Simply Paul's interpretation, i.e. only add icons where significant, and ignore those that are "neutral" for your cache. So if dogs are not banned from accessing the site but the approach is not particularly dog-friendly (except for those that can be carried, or a Rutson super-hound), no icon. If it looks like a great dog-walk and you know that they are permitted, select the dog icon.

I own a cache which is a lovely dog walk, in National Trust park land, where many people walk their dogs. However, accessing the cache requires climbing over at least 1 stile (depending on direction of approach) which has sheep fencing either side and so dogs can't get through the fence and have to be lifted over the stile.

I have explained this in the cache description so that dog owners are aware of a potential problem.

So... do I use the little dog icon or not? I say yes, because I've covered both bases!

3.7k · January 20, 2005

Leoness,

The dog icon is probably in this case as long as the warning about the stile is fairly prominent. I think what we're trying to do (eventually) is help cachers to put together a shortlist of suitable caches without having to read the full description. So if someone thinks "let's take the dog for walks while we're on holiday, and find a few geocaches at the same time" they can look at your cache page and straight away know that it's a suitable one.

If there's no "dog" icon at all, I'd assume that dogs are allowed but you wouldn't want to take one there - or just that the cache owner isn't sure (which is where you get your map out, do the cache if it looks suitable then report back in the log that you suggest use of the icon).

HH

3.8k · January 20, 2005

Thats why I think it would have been better for a dog with a cross through. I would be more likely to select that if it was in an area where dogs were NOT allowed

1.8k · January 20, 2005

On the "disabled access" - perhaps it's enough to assume that the disabled cacher (in a wheelchair) will be accompanied by a more able-bodied assistant, but would at least want to get within a few feet of the cache. There can't be that many caches where the container and approach are both completely suitable for access. If I was forced into wheelchair-only caching it would be fantastic to be have a list of ones where I could get close enough to point at the likely hiding place from six feet away, even if the actual box is out of reach. This category would also be handy if you're trying to sneak a cache in, on a walk with elderly relatives! (two types of Handi-caching).

You raise an interesting point about what exactly these symbols are meant to mean. I happen to have a professional interest in what wheelchair accessable means, and in this day and age many disabled people using wheelchairs would be insulted by the suggestion they can only take part in activities like Geoacaching if accompanied. The most active disabled cachers will want to know where they can go caching without help from others.

They will not see any difference between a wheelchair accessable cache, and a wheelchair accessable branch of a high street bank. A wheelchair user would not understand the latter to mean they can get as far as the door but must rely on someone to go inside and carry out their transactions for them.

What you appear to be understanding the symbol to mean is "terrain suitable for wheelchairs", which again, is a different thing.

January 20, 2005

May require swimming

Could've been worse...

Scuba gear required??? Filling the log in could prove interesting!

6.2k · January 20, 2005

I've been looking for how to search for caches that require a boat or swimming, for example, but can't spot where you need to go to find them. Does anyone know?

SP

1.8k · January 20, 2005

I thought the point of these new indicators is that once the GPX format is revised it will be possible to search using them.

Edited January 20, 2005 by Learned Gerbil

6.2k · January 20, 2005

No searchable 'on site' then? That'd be a shame.

SP

3.7k · January 20, 2005

SP,

I understand that the search facility will be added later.

Learned G,

You're right, I was taking it to mean the general terrain, but thinking a bit more about it, I don't think that was the intention of the wheelchair-accessible icon.

So this symbol should only be applied when the wheelchair user can leave home unaccompanied and can successfully sign the cache log book (or log the virtual cache) without any outside assistance (obviously use of a car is assumed).

Perhaps micro and virtual caches in the countryside have a place in geocaching for this category of user. The sites where a traditional cache can be left, tend to be inaccessible to the wheelchair user even where the terrain nearby is suitable.

Only one of my caches strictly obeys this rule and I've added the symbol to identify it. For another one, the wheelchair-bound cacher could get to within three feet, but actually reaching the box would be awkward, to say the least - a little frustrating as they would have travelled a minimum of 40 miles to get to it! Perhaps we should set more caches that are wheelchair-friendly though...

HH

January 20, 2005

What good is a cache where you cant take your dog?

Very good indeed. I've lost count of the times we've been attacked by a dog while out geocaching. For the very worst example see http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...08-a373e48b4d42

"It's all right. He won't hurt you". Yeah right. Not everyone likes dogs. Please, keep them under control. By which I mean on a lead, and the lead held by a person who is capable of restraining the dog.

To get back on topic, I'd like an attribute meaning "Dogs not allowed".

3.7k · January 21, 2005

Whites,

I'd like an attribute meaning "Dogs not allowed".

What about the "Dogs not allowed" attribute?

Now I've put all the attributes in place, I think I'm going to scare everyone away from one of mine, which has:

Can anyone beat that?

HH

January 21, 2005

On the "disabled access" - perhaps it's enough to assume that the disabled cacher (in a wheelchair) will be accompanied by a more able-bodied assistant, but would at least want to get within a few feet of the cache. There can't be that many caches where the container and approach are both completely suitable for access. If I was forced into wheelchair-only caching it would be fantastic to be have a list of ones where I could get close enough to point at the likely hiding place from six feet away, even if the actual box is out of reach. This category would also be handy if you're trying to sneak a cache in, on a walk with elderly relatives! (two types of Handi-caching).

You raise an interesting point about what exactly these symbols are meant to mean. I happen to have a professional interest in what wheelchair accessable means, and in this day and age many disabled people using wheelchairs would be insulted by the suggestion they can only take part in activities like Geoacaching if accompanied. The most active disabled cachers will want to know where they can go caching without help from others.

They will not see any difference between a wheelchair accessable cache, and a wheelchair accessable branch of a high street bank. A wheelchair user would not understand the latter to mean they can get as far as the door but must rely on someone to go inside and carry out their transactions for them.

What you appear to be understanding the symbol to mean is "terrain suitable for wheelchairs", which again, is a different thing.

If it is suitable for accompanied or unaccompanied people who suffer from mobolity problems of any kind maybe handicaching attributes should also be added to the cache page

2.2k · January 21, 2005

the only problem with icons is that they don't really explain the conditions. the easiest way is that the cache placer put's a bit more info in the description. mentioning styles, deep mud etc. don't need to go into huge amounts of details just mention them. then if someones not sure they can always email for more info.

saves confusion. dog symbol can mean dogs allowed/dogs accesible/ but what size of dog etc?

just my 2p worth. take a few more mins and add stuff to the description.

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