+El Diablo Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 (edited) I'm just curious how many other people feel intimidated by the forums regular posters? I was told that this paticular person wouldn't post because they were afraid of being ridiculed by regular posters such as my self. I think I speak for many others when I say that we would never ridicule unless on extreme basis. so please tell us if that is the what you lurkers think. I promise none of the regulars will ridicule...if they do I promise to come down on them like a ton of bricks. Honestly we usually reserve our irony for each other. Some may read the forums and think we are mortal enimies. That's not true. We enjoy the banter and always ...well most always treat each other with respect. We also invite and look forward to new ideas. So please don't be afraid to post. El Diablo Edited January 14, 2005 by El Diablo
Mushtang Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 I think I speak for many others when I say that we would never ridicule unless on extreme basis. This just isn't true. I've seen newbies flamed time and again in here. Not that I'm not guilty of it myself, although I can't think of a specific case where it's been done by anyone, it happens a lot. I can see why a non-poster would be afraid, especially if they had thin skin.
+El Diablo Posted January 14, 2005 Author Posted January 14, 2005 I think I speak for many others when I say that we would never ridicule unless on extreme basis. This just isn't true. I've seen newbies flamed time and again in here. Not that I'm not guilty of it myself, although I can't think of a specific case where it's been done by anyone, it happens a lot. I can see why a non-poster would be afraid, especially if they had thin skin. Well they won't do it in this thread. El Diablo
+Moose Mob Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 Not intentionaly, but they do. Or at least it's taken that way. Even folks like me who drift mildy off topic can be intimidating when they feel like they have lost control of thier topic, thier point/view is not acknowledged, or many other reasons.
+Lemon Fresh Dog Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 That's a nice concern. I went from about 20 posts in mid-December to whatever number you happen to see on the side at the moment. I've never felt belittled in anyway. I've had two threads in which I had some, er..... passionate discourse in which I didn't feel completely understood, but also imagine those I was going back-and-forth with did as well. Generally, I think everyone here is all about one thing -- geocaching! The passion is definately there -- which is good. Everyone here has been nothing but kind -- even when they are calling me a troll!
+TotemLake Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 Some will, and like mentioned above, don't try to. Others do and intentionally do so. I kind of recall my beginnings here, and I remember some tried to intimidate me due to my lack of knowledge or basic newbie assumptions. I stood my ground and the same backed off a bit to allow me to express my opinions regardless if they were right or wrong. Based on those begninnings and other forums and billboards I used to be involved with; my take on it is if you don't stand your ground, you'll be intimidated anyway. Get in and get your feet wet. Take the heat and give it back if you have to. Don't take it personally until it becomes a personal attack then give it back in spades while maintaining the high road to keep the other person looking like a complete jerk for starting it.
+leatherman Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 I've never felt belittled in anyway. I'll belittle you if you want.
+BigHank Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 It is precisely the reason why I don' t post that often, despite reading the forums several times a week (and lately since my surgery, several times a day). Not that I am thin skinned, but I just don't think that it's worth my time and effort to post something and recieve ridicule/condescension/be told my opinion isn't wanted because of (insert reason). I have posted more in the past two weeks than I have in the past three years before that, but only because I thought I had something relevant to say to the topic at hand (and even then was told my opinion wasn't wanted because I hadn't found enough caches or something to that effect). I am not the only one that feels this way.... there are six other cachers in my immediate circle of friends....and none of them has ever posted on the forums. I would guess, and I stress that it is a guess, that there are many others who are the same for the same reasons. I think it is interesting you ask this, and if it leads to a change, then you deserve more than a big pat on the back and a thank you. Hank
+El Diablo Posted January 14, 2005 Author Posted January 14, 2005 Some will, and like mentioned above, don't try to. Others do and intentionally do so. I kind of recall my beginnings here, and I remember some tried to intimidate me due to my lack of knowledge or basic newbie assumptions. I stood my ground and the same backed off a bit to allow me to express my opinions regardless if they were right or wrong. Based on those begninnings and other forums and billboards I used to be involved with; my take on it is if you don't stand your ground, you'll be intimidated anyway. Get in and get your feet wet. Take the heat and give it back if you have to. Don't take it personally until it becomes a personal attack then give it back in spades while maintaining the high road to keep the other person looking like a complete jerk for starting it. Good advice! El Diablo
+Lemon Fresh Dog Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 I've never felt belittled in anyway. I'll belittle you if you want. Haha. Thanks for the kind offer. You and I have likely got VERY different life philosophies (I clicked your "always right" link), but at the end of the day even when you have disagreed with me in the forums it's always been on-topic and not personal. About the only two areas where I have ever felt impatience in the forums have been: One: "that's been covered!" Two: "Your stats are too low for you to have an opinion" Otherwise, I think it's been pretty good.
+El Diablo Posted January 14, 2005 Author Posted January 14, 2005 I am not the only one that feels this way.... there are six other cachers in my immediate circle of friends....and none of them has ever posted on the forums. I would guess, and I stress that it is a guess, that there are many others who are the same for the same reasons. This is the exact reason for the thread. If we as regulars make people feel this way....then we should be ashamed! I also want to point out that this is not our goal. We like you are passionate about this sport. There are times that we forget to be polite....well most of the time. Please feel free to post. We might come back with the less desirable response, but we do appreciate your thoughts. As you establish yourself you will become more excepted. I promised earlier that hte regulars would'nt ridicule. The reason I can make that promise is because I know they feel like me, we want new people. We thrive on new thoughts that challenge our own. El Diablo
+El Diablo Posted January 14, 2005 Author Posted January 14, 2005 One: "that's been covered!" Two: "Your stats are too low for you to have an opinion" . Good thing Bill Gates didn't feel that way! El Diablo
+leatherman Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 Two: "Your stats are too low for you to have an opinion" Yeah. I remember getting that one. Way back when. The one I hate are the morons that question your intelligence because you miss spelled a word. Spelling Zealots!
+Escapades Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 I enjoy reading the forums and have started to express my opinion more often. I can't remember ever being flamed or posted down too. Its fun to see how the topics go. I don't think there is as much complaining about geocaching.com as there usde to be. One thing in a printed post you can usually take a comment different ways, somebody may post something is jest, but who ity is intended to may take it seriosly. It is hard to tell the tone of the message in a printed message. Mike
+El Diablo Posted January 14, 2005 Author Posted January 14, 2005 Two: "Your stats are too low for you to have an opinion" Yeah. I remember getting that one. Way back when. The one I hate are the morons that question your intelligence because you miss spelled a word. Spelling Zealots! Look at my stats. El Diablo
+leatherman Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 Two: "Your stats are too low for you to have an opinion" Yeah. I remember getting that one. Way back when. The one I hate are the morons that question your intelligence because you miss spelled a word. Spelling Zealots! Look at my stats. El Diablo WoW! Your opinion doesn't count!
+Renegade Knight Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 (edited) Yes some of the forum regulars are down right nasty to newbies. I've taken my turn and given time I could even find the thread, and that's the one I know of. For every one I know of, I have no doubt there are others. I've often followed up by PM or email when I catch a hint that a newbie has been slammed. What I find Ironic is that when it comes to newbies it's not the wolves doing most of the harm. It's the self proclaimed sheep dogs. This is on newbie questions and not so much the age old dead horse topics where everyone gets heated. Edited January 14, 2005 by Renegade Knight
Aushiker Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 (edited) I have commented in another thread on this general subject area. I find it quite unpleaseant often in these forums at times. IMHO there is, often way to much aggression and intolerance shown to others. Points can be made with maturity, without the need to be a bully. I play in a number of forums, two of them with over 2,000 members and I have not seen anything like I have here. Very sad and reflects negatively on the individuals concerned. Regards Andrew Edited January 14, 2005 by Aushiker
+TotemLake Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 Two: "Your stats are too low for you to have an opinion" Yeah. I remember getting that one. Way back when. The one I hate are the morons that question your intelligence because you miss spelled a word. Spelling Zealots! Ummmm.... that's misspelled. I guess your opinion still doesn't count.
+leatherman Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 Two: "Your stats are too low for you to have an opinion" Yeah. I remember getting that one. Way back when. The one I hate are the morons that question your intelligence because you miss spelled a word. Spelling Zealots! Ummmm.... that's misspelled. I guess your opinion still doesn't count. Zealot!
+stugotz Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 I have personally never felt intimidated by the “regular posters”. Most try to be helpful. Some do post ignorant comments, for no apparent reason, but that’s just the way some people are. The “regular posters” that bother me are the ones that feel they must have at least one comment/reply to every topic.
+TotemLake Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 (edited) Zealot! Edited January 14, 2005 by TotemLake
+leatherman Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 The “regular posters” that bother me are the ones that feel they must have at least one comment/reply to every topic. Where is Sparky?
+El Diablo Posted January 14, 2005 Author Posted January 14, 2005 (edited) I'm getting PM's from a mod that thinks I'm protraying myself as a moderator. I'm not...and never will. They want to know how I can promise that no one will ridicule a poster. I can because I know most of them and they feel like me. They don't want anyone intimidated. El Diablo Edited January 14, 2005 by El Diablo
+Spzzmoose Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 (edited) I can see where some people would be afraid to post here but I have to be honest. This is by far the tamest board I frequent, plus its heavily modified. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but you should see some of the other boards...man, those people are RUTHLESS! Its easy to be a jerk when you hide behind a computer screen. EDIT FUR SPEILANG Edited January 14, 2005 by Spzzmoose
+Spzzmoose Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 The “regular posters” that bother me are the ones that feel they must have at least one comment/reply to every topic. Where is Sparky? Whatever happened to Woodster Outdoors?
+CO Admin Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 Lets keep this thread on topic, its not about where long lost cachers are. Thanks
+Spzzmoose Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 (edited) Lets keep this thread on topic, its not about where long lost cachers are. Thanks "plus its heavily modified" See what I mean! Sorry CO... couldnt resist! Back on topic.... Edited January 14, 2005 by Spzzmoose
+Lemon Fresh Dog Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 I think this topic is interesting because I also think it also speaks indirectly to another issue -- which is the evolution of the hobby as a whole. I imagine that some of the old-timers get frustrated when the same suggestions or topics re-appear by eager newcomers. We used to have a saying in customer service: "YOU may have heard it a hundred times, but to the person telling you it's the first time they've experienced it." We were talking about tourism, but the concept is applicable (I think). It's hard for someone that lives in an area to get excited about the fact that there's a Killer Whale swimming outside the window. If you've never seen one, it's pretty cool. Some of the old-timers have seen it before. The newbies think it's pretty cool. If you get a cold reception to your brilliant idea - it can seem like a personal slam. Also, people that are new often want to ask about change. Some people are receptive to that and some folks are passionately opposed. You've raised an interesting discussion.
+TotemLake Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 I'm getting PM's from a mod that thinks I'm protraying myself as a moderator. I'm not...and never will. They want to know how I can promise that no one will ridicule a poster. I can because I know most of them and they feel like me. They don't want anyone intimidated. El Diablo Besides, peer pressure is a great tool to intimidate people to back off when properly implemented.
+Spzzmoose Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 "We used to have a saying in customer service: "YOU may have heard it a hundred times, but to the person telling you it's the first time they've experienced it." Good point LFD, I never thought of it that way.
+El Diablo Posted January 14, 2005 Author Posted January 14, 2005 (edited) I'm getting PM's from a mod that thinks I'm protraying myself as a moderator. I'm not...and never will. They want to know how I can promise that no one will ridicule a poster. I can because I know most of them and they feel like me. They don't want anyone intimidated. El Diablo Besides, peer pressure is a great tool to intimidate people to back off when properly implemented. Thank you. The regular posters on this forum have great respect for each other...and for the newbies posting. El Diablo Edited January 14, 2005 by El Diablo
+Milbank Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 Great topic. I'm I a forum regular? If so I sure hope I never intimidated anyone. I know I sure have felt intimidated on these forums. If you stick around long enough you get over it.
+DaveA Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 I think I speak for many others when I say that we would never ridicule unless on extreme basis. Well, first of all I don't get intimidated by people behind their computers. Second, compared to some boards I have been on this one is nothing as far as rude treatment of people, go try a board dealing with religion or politics if you want to see awful treatment of people. However, it does seem that on any board there will be regulars. Something the regulars on any board seem to have in common is that they (usually unknowingly and unintentionally) form a clique of sorts. I think it has to do with knowing each other via the forum and sometimes from real life meet ups. The overall attitudes of the regulars on certain topics sometimes is fairly uniform. As a result if a new person posts something that goes against the grain for the regulars that person can get dogpiled on. I can't say that I have seen a lot of that here. What I have seen here is an attitude among *some* regulars that they are superior due to their premium member status. There have even been cases where some of these persons use put downs to describe those who aren't premium members. Since Jeremy has stated he isn't concerned about such comments (while he has said he doesn't share the view) this type of behavior will likely continue. Anyway, overall I don't think this board is too bad as far as treatment of newbies is concerned. It has it's flaws like any other board, but overall things stay pretty civil.
+GixxerUT Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 (edited) with a forum such as this, the newbies come to gather info the veterans stick around to share and associate different agendae veterans aren't gathering info that much, so when they post topics, it seems to be more about generating discourse (in my observation) and flaming and trolling on internet forums are the nature of the beast, it will never be fully controlled [edit] and another thing...LOL feeling superior about time spent on an internet forum?????? hahahahahaha that is something to be ashamed of (I am) Edited January 14, 2005 by GixxerUT
+leatherman Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 and flaming and trolling on internet forums are the nature of the beast, it will never be fully controlled Don't let the truth out! The MODS will ban you.
+El Diablo Posted January 14, 2005 Author Posted January 14, 2005 Let me try to clairify here to get a mod off my back. This thread is sponsered soley by me, it is not sponsered by Groundspeak or Geocaching.com These thought arfe my own. They are not intended to represent the thoughts of Groundspeak or Geocaching.com. Is that perfectly clear? I was approached today about this problem and I thought I would address it. Apparently according to one Moderator...not a good idea. So does everyone understand that I don't represent Groundspeak or Geocaching.com??? Or do I need to print it in the magazine? El Diablo
+DaveA Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 Let me try to clairify here to get a mod off my back. This thread is sponsered soley by me, it is not sponsered by Groundspeak or Geocaching.com These thought arfe my own. They are not intended to represent the thoughts of Groundspeak or Geocaching.com. Is that perfectly clear? I was approached today about this problem and I thought I would address it. Apparently according to one Moderator...not a good idea. So does everyone understand that I don't represent Groundspeak or Geocaching.com??? Or do I need to print it in the magazine? El Diablo I never had any problem getting it, you don't have mod under your username. Perhaps a new thread should be "Do the mods intimidate the posters?"
+New England n00b Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 (edited) I remember posting here as a n00b, and compared to many boards, the forum regulars at the time were extremely helpful when plied for information. When discussing morein depth topics, such as debates about the direction of caching, I can see how people might be intimidated. Generally, though, if you come with respect I have found you'll be treated with respect, even if there's disagreements. Come in angry and disrespectful with an axe to grind, you'll find a lot of forum regulars unresponsive at best (myself included). As far as belittliting someome for the number of caches found or number of posts - that's just plain silly. The few times I have seen it happen there have been forum regulars and/or moderators spanking the offending individual. Forum n00bs - if anyone does this to you (and are being serious), please don't let them intimidate you. Those kinds of posts are completely empty and not worthy of your time. Another thing that might intimidate is the perception of written text. Emoticons (or smilies) help to make meanings clear, but sometimes even the best intentioned post can be misunderstood. If you think there is a problem, please ask for clarification. The poster may have meant something totally different from what you might have thought. In any case, welcome to the forums! Edited January 14, 2005 by New England n00b
+Escapades Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 So does everyone understand that I don't represent Groundspeak or Geocaching.com So what are you really trying to say? Mike
+Cherokeecacher Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 I'm getting PM's from a mod that thinks I'm protraying myself as a moderator. I'm not...and never will. They want to know how I can promise that no one will ridicule a poster. I can because I know most of them and they feel like me. They don't want anyone intimidated. El Diablo I am lost. How could someone think you are portraying yourself as a MOD, just because you are trying to find out if new posters feel intimidated? I think/thought it was a valid question, and a point I have raised with some of the "vets" before when they were slamming a "tadpole".
+Snoogans Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 (edited) Let me try to clairify here to get a mod off my back.(snip) So does everyone understand that I don't represent Groundspeak or Geocaching.com??? Or do I need to print it in the magazine? El Diablo Ummmm, I get it. No wait, what was the question??? Seriously, You'd hafta be exercising some fuzzy logic to think otherwise. Back on topic..... I have definite opinions and I'm not afraid to voice them. If someone finds that intimidating, it's their problem not mine. I may push the limits of good taste at times, but I usually try to be somewhat respectful when talking directly to someone. I'll open up a can of whoop@#$ on anyone that says different! Edited January 14, 2005 by Snoogans
+TotemLake Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 Generally, though, if you come with respect I have found you'll be treated with respect, even if there's disagreements. Come in angry and disrespectful with an axe to grind, you'll find a lot of forum regulars unresponsive at best (myself included). Most of the time, that's true. But every now and then, you'll get someone who for one reason or another, will completely blast at you because your opinion doesn't match theirs and that's when they lower themselves to personal attacks. Usually, they're on some crusade to convert the world to their way of thinking and anything opposing them in any form is met with name calling and disparate remarks. It's a shame, because even though I'm always up for a good debate and exchange of intelligently formed opinions, you can't debate against closed minds.
+pnew Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 I chuckle everytime someone slaps a new user with a Markwell (or is it a Mopar now??) for asking an honest yet frequent question. Thats definitely one way to make sure they'll never ask again . Then again some users that aren't on message boards all the time take it a little too personally. Its a mixed bag.
+Cherokeecacher Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 Let me try to clairify here to get a mod off my back.(snip) So does everyone understand that I don't represent Groundspeak or Geocaching.com??? Or do I need to print it in the magazine? El Diablo Ummmm, I get it. No wait, what was the question??? Seriously, You'd hafta be exercising some fuzzy logic to think otherwise. Back on topic..... I have definite opinions and I'm not afraid to voice them. If someone finds that intimidating, it's their problem not mine. I may push the limits of good taste at times, but I usually try to be somewhat respectful when talking directly to someone. I'll open up a can of whoop@#$ on anyone that says different! So what are you trying to say Snoogans?
+BadAndy Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 The forums can be a hazardous place. I know of a few cachers that won't post here because it's too intimidating, or they just don't want to deal with the flames. I recall being a newbie and posting on another outdoor related forum. Got my butt kicked good. Real good. It wasn't fun. I go back every now and then for more, but the visits are getting fewer and further between. I'm as guilty as the rest of you by the way. We should all try and pause before we hit that enter key. What we need is a kinder, more gentle forum. All you newbies...cmon over. Group hug.
+Spzzmoose Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 I chuckle everytime someone slaps a new user with a Markwell (or is it a Mopar now??) for asking an honest yet frequent question.
+TotemLake Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 We should all try and pause before we hit that enter key. What we need is a kinder, more gentle forum. Yah I'm guilty too... One of the things I found most useful when things get heated is to write my post in notepad... step away from it for an hour and re-write it. Step away from it for another hour then re-write it again. After another hour, delete it and start over. Sometimes the start over is a "Nevermind" and I don't bother to post.
+Snoogans Posted January 14, 2005 Posted January 14, 2005 (edited) I'll open up a can of whoop@#$ on anyone that says different! So what are you trying to say Snoogans? Don't MAKE me come over there! You know me...... Just adding a touch of irony to the discussion. Back on topic: I think it depends on the individual. I never posted online before this forum. I wasn't ever intimidated, but I also have a very thick skin and I'm confident in what I have to say. I also teach adult education classes and work in the security industry. I have writing and people skills that some people lack. A weakness anywhere in those two areas would cause intimidation to some. IMO It's their own fault. It certainly isn't intended that way from me...... I can see how someone who my feel less polished in their social skills, or game knowledge, could feel intimidated me, or RK, or Briansnat, or Carleenp, or Coyote Red and a host of others that regularly post, but AGAIN, the choice is theirs to feel that way. I have rarely noticed OVERT attempts to intimidate in these GC.com forums. (psst....i hope that didn't intimidate anyone. ) Edited January 14, 2005 by Snoogans
+El Diablo Posted January 14, 2005 Author Posted January 14, 2005 I can see how someone who my feel less polished in their social skills, or game knowledge, could feel intimidated me, or RK, or Briansnat, or Carleenp, or Coyote Red and a host of others that regularly post, but AGAIN, the choice is theirs to feel that way. I have rarely noticed OVERT attempts to intimidate in these GC.com forums. (psst....i hope that didn't intimidate anyone. ) I agree Snoogans, you or any of the other regular poster would never try to intimidate anyone. The regular posters are great people. I take exceptions with people at times..but I love you. I swear you had better never ever tell anyone I said that! The shame is though that some see us as intimidating. Maybe we need to work on that, and that includes me. El diablo
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