+as77 Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I think the victims in this issue are the cachers who wanted to place the caches in question. They were led into believing that they had successfully gotten their caches through; the caches got approved, apparently after a lot of discussion. I can understand the deep disappointment when unexpectedly to them those caches suddenly got archived. As I pointed out in another thread, I wish approvals were trustable decisions that last. This is very important. I hope Groundspeak and the reviewers will work together to prevent similar unfortunate events in the future. Perhaps there is a need for improved communication between Groundspeak and the reviewers. Link to comment
+briansnat Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 As I pointed out in another thread, I wish approvals were trustable decisions that last. As Heidi pointed out in another thread, approvers are human and make mistakes. Whent hey do they should be corrected. If NJ Admin accidently approves my cache on NPS land, I would hope another approver would step in and set him straight. Link to comment
+as77 Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 As I pointed out in another thread, I wish approvals were trustable decisions that last. As Heidi pointed out in another thread, approvers are human and make mistakes. Whent hey do they should be corrected. If NJ Admin accidently approves my cache on NPS land, I would hope another approver would step in and set him straight. OK, let me ask you (or anyone who can answer) a question. Did the reviewers contact Groundspeak before approving these caches, to ask for their stand on the issue? Link to comment
+New England n00b Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 As I pointed out in another thread, I wish approvals were trustable decisions that last. As Heidi pointed out in another thread, approvers are human and make mistakes. Whent hey do they should be corrected. If NJ Admin accidently approves my cache on NPS land, I would hope another approver would step in and set him straight. OK, let me ask you (or anyone who can answer) a question. Did the reviewers contact Groundspeak before approving these caches, to ask for their stand on the issue? Given the extensive public unpleasantry, I kinda doubt you are going to get an answer on this - publicly pinning blame is not really appropriate. Link to comment
+as77 Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Given the extensive public unpleasantry, I kinda doubt you are going to get an answer on this - publicly pinning blame is not really appropriate. That has already happened. Rothstafari's post said "The blame for this lies solely with Groundspeak and not the volunteers." Link to comment
+New England n00b Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 (edited) Given the extensive public unpleasantry, I kinda doubt you are going to get an answer on this - publicly pinning blame is not really appropriate. That has already happened. Rothstafari's post said "The blame for this lies solely with Groundspeak and not the volunteers." Still, I don't think you are going to see details. Not that I am not interested in the details, I just don't think they are going to be forthcoming, given the current climate of blame-pinning. And I don't fault them for that decision. Edited January 11, 2005 by New England n00b Link to comment
+vree Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 well, there's no poll on this, but i have to agree with Mopar's first post (I think it was his first... it was so long ago that I read it). Why the need to filter this through GC? And the vast, vast majoirity of cachers never even visit the forums, so how many are really so upset about it that they are going to leave? It cracks me up that some of the people that post here think that everything discussed in the forums is an issue to EVERY geocacher. I don't understand the want to donate again to "show your support as a geocacher". What does geocaching have to do with this? Nothing. Do it as a citizen of the world. The cache does nothing to encourage me to donate any extra money... So I don't do that cache, am I uncaring? No. Why does the existence of that cache make or break anything? Wave your caring flag... You're wasting so much energy arguing about this. Why not direct your energy on something more productive? Link to comment
+mtn-man Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Given the extensive public unpleasantry, I kinda doubt you are going to get an answer on this - publicly pinning blame is not really appropriate. That has already happened. Rothstafari's post said "The blame for this lies solely with Groundspeak and not the volunteers." Still, I don't think you are going to see details. Not that I am not interested in the details, I just don't think they are going to be forthcoming, given the current climate of blame-pinning. And I don't fault them for that decision. Hydee has already stated the position on this matter. I do not believe in 'airing dirty laundry' I will not point blame to anyone. I will say that there have been a series of mistakes made in this situation, many of them out of a quest for doing what is right. At no point did anyone, myself or one of the volunteers, act in a way to intentionally cause harm to the sport or the geocaching community. As I stated in another thread earlier today, the volunteer team is asked to do this job to the best of their abilities, and they are trusted to do what they feel is right in each and every situation. They make the decisions based off what they feel is best for the site, the team, the community and the sport. They are not asked to become inhuman, so being human we all make mistakes at times. Considering the number of decisions they are faced with on a daily basis they all do an incredible job as forum moderators and cache reviewers. (By the way Hydee, thanks for all you do for us! ) Link to comment
Pantalaimon Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 (By the way Hydee, thanks for all you do for us! ) Get a room. Link to comment
+mtn-man Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 (edited) (By the way Hydee, thanks for all you do for us! ) Get a room. Na, she already has... um, uhh, "whats-his-name"... and I have my Athena^. I can still Hydee though! (Added URL to Athena^ since I *KNOW* you are curious.) Edited January 11, 2005 by mtn-man Link to comment
+hydee Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 (By the way Hydee, thanks for all you do for us! ) Get a room. Na, she already has... um, uhh, "whats-his-name"... and I have my Athena^. I can still Hydee though! (Added URL to Athena^ since I *KNOW* you are curious.) Thanks Mtn-man! "whats-his-name" better known as Rothstafari OK back on topic, I do not believe anyone deserves "blame" in this situation. Yes, mistakes may have been made and as I have said many were by me. So for those that still feel the need to blame someone for hard feelings over any of this, feel free to blame me. I welcome your comments, but would appreciate them to be constructive. Link to comment
WH Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I welcome your comments, but would appreciate them to be constructive. Green isnt your color. Link to comment
Effrem Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 ::::::::::::::Walks away laughing at the stupidity of people::::::::::::::::: I'm at a catch 22. I don't want to lock the thread but I don't think its right that you would call people stupid and not allow people to respond. My only personal response is that you're lack of empathy amuses me. if you wish to take the higher ground I suggest you act with a certain respect of other people's opinions. A cache listing for tsunami relief is forcing a round peg in a square hole, isn't very effective due to its lack of availability to a wide audience, and there already is a rather large link on the front page which I guarantee dwarfs any individual cache listing on the site. I won't try to convince you anything because you first must keep an open mind before trying to see the other side. I do see your side and have already marked you as idealistic with blinders on about this issue. It seems pointless to continue this debate since you prefer to stoop to childish actions like calling people stoopid. Jeremy I refer to the stuidity of people attacking me and my position. In this thread there only a couple of serious responses. And re my web site The last update was on the 9th of june 2004 and only refers to my placed caches and completed ones, nothing else. Should have I done some thing special? For traffic of 9 or 10 a month? Thats a waste of time for all concerned. I know its well overdue for a update but time is precious and my job doesnt allow me a lot of recreational time at the moment. If anyone doubts what i say check it out for yourself Effremsgeocaching.tk And re the page discussion, new events appear on my page with regularity, I also get an update from the .au site weekly as well. Perhaps what I receive in Australia is much different from the rest of the world, If so I apologise unreservedly As I have over and over again, It was approved and it should stand and dadgum the backlash from the selfish whiners. It only needed to be active for a month to do its work. Is that to much to ask? Damian Link to comment
+BigHank Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Effrem said: "....dadgum the backlash from the selfish whiners." Could you please state specifically who the "selfish whiners" are and give the facts upon which you base their alleged selfishness? Link to comment
+briansnat Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Could you please state specifically who the "selfish whiners" are and give the facts upon which you base their alleged selfishness? Actually, the selfish people are the ones who insist on being able to log a find and get a pat on their back for their donation. A cache page contributes NOTHING to the cause other than allowing this. Link to comment
+Navdog Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 (edited) Could you please state specifically who the "selfish whiners" are and give the facts upon which you base their alleged selfishness? Actually, the selfish people are the ones who insist on being able to log a find and get a pat on their back for their donation. A cache page contributes NOTHING to the cause other than allowing this. I think you can take it a step further and see that those who tried to say they only logged a note, are still looking for validation from the geocaching community. A truly selfless act of giving would not require this. Edited January 12, 2005 by Navdog Link to comment
Effrem Posted January 12, 2005 Author Share Posted January 12, 2005 Effrem said:"....dadgum the backlash from the selfish whiners." Could you please state specifically who the "selfish whiners" are and give the facts upon which you base their alleged selfishness? No because that would be a personal attack. and thats not what I am about. Damian Link to comment
+mtn-man Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Well, then please don't call people "selfish whiners" either. That *is* a personal attack on anyone who does not agree with you. From the forum guidelines linked at the top left of every forum page: Respect: Respect the guidelines for forum usage, and site usage. Respect Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, yourself, fellow community members, and guests on these boards. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they deserve the same respect. Personal Attacks and Flames will not be tolerated. If you want to praise or criticize, give examples as to why it is good or bad, general attacks on a person or idea will not be tolerated. An apology would probably be good at this point. Link to comment
Effrem Posted January 12, 2005 Author Share Posted January 12, 2005 Well, then please don't call people "selfish whiners" either. That *is* a personal attack on anyone who does not agree with you. From the forum guidelines linked at the top left of every forum page: Respect: Respect the guidelines for forum usage, and site usage. Respect Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, yourself, fellow community members, and guests on these boards. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they deserve the same respect. Personal Attacks and Flames will not be tolerated. If you want to praise or criticize, give examples as to why it is good or bad, general attacks on a person or idea will not be tolerated. An apology would probably be good at this point. From the forum guidelines linked at the top left of every forum page: Respect: Respect the guidelines for forum usage, and site usage. Respect Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, yourself, fellow community members, and guests on these boards. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they deserve the same respect. Personal Attacks and Flames will not be tolerated. If you want to praise or criticize, give examples as to why it is good or bad, general attacks on a person or idea will not be tolerated. Youre right, an apology would probably be good at this point. But not from me. I have called as I see it, I have not named any person in particular (bar replies to Jeremy directly). If you feel that I am refering to you, Its probably guilt tickling your conscience. Damian Link to comment
+New England n00b Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Wow. Some people sure are stupid. But you won't get an apology from me. If you think I am talking about you, it must be your guilty conscience. Link to comment
+BigHank Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 "QUOTE (BigHank @ Jan 11 2005, 02:24 PM) Effrem said: "....dadgum the backlash from the selfish whiners." Hank said: Could you please state specifically who the "selfish whiners" are and give the facts upon which you base their alleged selfishness? Effrem said: No because that would be a personal attack. and thats not what I am about. Damian" Okay then, how about just giving the facts that cause you to characterize those who don't agree with you as "selfish whiners." You don't have to name names...but if you are going to make statements, then you should be able to back them up with facts. If you can't, then your post is lacking in validity and in my mind calls into question the validity of any other statement you make. Hank Hank Link to comment
Effrem Posted January 12, 2005 Author Share Posted January 12, 2005 Big Hank please read the thread. Thanks Damian Link to comment
Effrem Posted January 12, 2005 Author Share Posted January 12, 2005 If noone can give a coherant (spl?)serious answer, I would suggest that this thread be closed. Most of the replies to my posts are only taking one line from the post and asking me questions about that line without commenting on the rest of the post. It is neither constructive nor does it answer the question raised by me. I have tried to remain calm and rational in my posts, and have had bite my tongue very hard with regard to some posts. I didnt visit this forum at all before this (other than when I first became hooked on caching), my normal site is .au. But after reading various posts or different subjects and looking at the comments made by members of this site, I was stunned at the lack of respect shown to others. There has been comments that this site is overmoderated, They are not true. This site relatively relaxed (by other forums standards). Its only that when the mods do act, its usually with a heavy handand, And that gets peoples attention. I myself mod on a smaller forum (on 50 or so members) and every knows where the line is generally dont cross it, But I attend several very large sites and the same princple applies,newbies to the site are put right by long term members (politely) and the mods rarely do anything (Just as an interest the larger forum has over 140,000 members and well over 500,000 posts). Thanks to the Mods for not being heavy handed on this thread. Thanks Damian Link to comment
Jeremy Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 You can close your own topic any time you want. Use the dropdown option at the bottom left-hand of this page (I think). Link to comment
+Navdog Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 As I have over and over again, It was approved...It only needed to be active for a month to do its work. Sorry you didn't get the support you wanted. Maybe that should be telling you something. It's too bad you can't understand the reason it was archived. There has been overwhelming support for the victims wordlwide, and I am sure thousands of cachers have given freely without the need to post to a cache page that they did. Link to comment
+AuntieWeasel Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I didnt visit this forum at all before this (other than when I first became hooked on caching), my normal site is .au. Good heavens! You're an Aussie? I was mentally cutting you extra slack on the tone of your posts because I assumed English wasn't your first language. Dear me. Link to comment
uperdooper Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 If noone can give a coherant (spl?)serious answer, I would suggest that this thread be closed. Most of the replies to my posts are only taking one line from the post and asking me questions about that line without commenting on the rest of the post. It is neither constructive nor does it answer the question raised by me. I have tried to remain calm and rational in my posts, and have had bite my tongue very hard with regard to some posts. I didnt visit this forum at all before this (other than when I first became hooked on caching), my normal site is .au. But after reading various posts or different subjects and looking at the comments made by members of this site, I was stunned at the lack of respect shown to others. There has been comments that this site is overmoderated, They are not true. This site relatively relaxed (by other forums standards). Its only that when the mods do act, its usually with a heavy handand, And that gets peoples attention. I myself mod on a smaller forum (on 50 or so members) and every knows where the line is generally dont cross it, But I attend several very large sites and the same princple applies,newbies to the site are put right by long term members (politely) and the mods rarely do anything (Just as an interest the larger forum has over 140,000 members and well over 500,000 posts). Thanks to the Mods for not being heavy handed on this thread. Thanks Damian you're stunned at the lack of respect? at least we aren't telling you to go back to your own forum, or insulting you because you haven't found as many caches as we think you should. that happened to a few people who posted in the UK forums. was that respectful? Link to comment
+Clan X-Man Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 If noone can give a coherant (spl?)serious answer, I would suggest that this thread be closed. Please close the thread then. As has been pointed out you are in control of that. I don't think this bickering (to be fair on both sides) is accomplishing anything. X Link to comment
Effrem Posted January 13, 2005 Author Share Posted January 13, 2005 You can close your own topic any time you want. Use the dropdown option at the bottom left-hand of this page (I think). First time I have seen that option thanks As I have over and over again, It was approved...It only needed to be active for a month to do its work. Sorry you didn't get the support you wanted. Maybe that should be telling you something. It's too bad you can't understand the reason it was archived. There has been overwhelming support for the victims wordlwide, and I am sure thousands of cachers have given freely without the need to post to a cache page that they did. I do understand the reason why , I disagree with it. Thats why I posted, flexibility could be shown in matters like this, but the general reaction has been "but my charity cache isnt allowed so why should yours". And I consider that attitude selfish. I didnt visit this forum at all before this (other than when I first became hooked on caching), my normal site is .au. Good heavens! You're an Aussie? I was mentally cutting you extra slack on the tone of your posts because I assumed English wasn't your first language. Dear me. And this post helps how? you're stunned at the lack of respect? at least we aren't telling you to go back to your own forum, or insulting you because you haven't found as many caches as we think you should. that happened to a few people who posted in the UK forums. was that respectful? I as I said, I havent been a regular visitor before this, but you do prove my point. See the previous quote for the sort of thing I mean. If noone can give a coherant (spl?)serious answer, I would suggest that this thread be closed. Please close the thread then. As has been pointed out you are in control of that. I don't think this bickering (to be fair on both sides) is accomplishing anything. X As I am in control of that this thread, It will now be closed (I didnt know that was the case). I may not have acomplished what I set out to do, but I gave it a shot. I still havent received a serious answer to my question. If anyone actually has an answer please PM me Thanks Damian Link to comment
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