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An Important Message From Lactodorum And Eckington


Lactodorum
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I do hope that if one day the whole truth does come out that the same people that are quick to dish out criticism will be there to offer an apology as well.

Why can't the truth come out now? My memory suggests that in the past mtn-man has spoken sense in this forum but here he is hinting that there is more to it than has been disclosed.

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Maybe we should have a www.geocaching.co.uk for a local forum and use GC.com for logging caches

I'd prefer a single inclusive centre, not a racist/nationalist/tribalist/clannish/cliquist/sectarian division.

 

If we fragment into cliques and claques, then we will be divided and conquered.

I'd prefer that too, but it seems a lot of people don't feel at home at this forum.

It would be best if we have 1 central place, but that can only happen if we all keep our minds open, look over the borders of our own microcosm and respect other cultures etc..

 

p.s. sorry to hijack this thread for this slightly off topic discussion..

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it seems a lot of people don't feel at home at this forum.

It would be best if we have 1 central place, but that can only happen if we all keep our minds open, look over the borders of our own microcosm and respect other cultures etc..

Open mindedness is conspicuously absent in this context.

 

This whole schism has been brought about by the "shut the phuq up" mentality.

 

That is a clear sign of closed mindedness.

 

It is the antithesis of the altruism and openmindedness that is the very spirit of geocaching.

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Oooh, this makes me so angry!  :lol:  :lol:  :huh:  :lol:  :lol:

 

Dave and Peter have the full support of the UK community and are doing a sterling job.  Caches get approved at lightning speed and this is (was!) a happier place to be than I can ever remember it.  They are masters both of the arts of diplomacy, and of herding cats!

 

<snip>

 

...will hold the post of UK moderator vacant until they have again regained control of their volunteer staff's behaviour and can persuade both Peter and Dave to take their rightful jobs back.

I don't think I can say it better or more succinctly than Ian has done (and I have several drafts to prove it :huh:).

 

I can quite understand that Peter and Dave might feel they need a break from moderating and approving (not least because their stirling work must be very time-consuming). They certainly should not feel they let us down at all by their decision (despite what some have said).

 

But, for all our sakes, I would ask them both to consider simply taking a sabatical, rather than resigning completely.

 

Things really have been brilliant around here since you took up the reins, Lacto & Eckers. Thank-you both :huh::huh:

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I do not believe in 'airing dirty laundry' I will not point blame to anyone. 

 

I will say that there have been a series of mistakes made in this situation, many of them out of a quest for doing what is right. At no point did anyone, myself or one of the volunteers, act in a way to intentionally cause harm to the sport or the geocaching community.

Hydee has said this better than anyone (which is why she is so good at what she does for Groundspeak and the community). Unfortunately mistakes were made by many. They have compounded into the current situation.

 

I think the big mistake being perpetuated here is continuing to pass blame on *ANYONE* unless you do know the whole story. It is a very unfortunate turn of events. Notice that earlier I said *if* the whole truth were know, not *when*. It will not come from me since I too do not want to publicly point blame at anyone either (though as mad as I was yesterday I almost did, which would have been another mistake and this time by me).

 

I will say that Groundspeak has been very much above reproach on this one. Feel free to be mad at me if you want. I really don't care. Groundspeak should not be the target of your anger. I think Groundspeak and the volunteers for the site have all learned several valuable lessons from the past several days.

 

I too wish they would take time off and come back. Hopefully in a few days they can clear this out of their systems. If not, best of luck finding caches out there.

 

(Dangit, run that spell checker mtn-man!)

Edited by mtn-man
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So, are we to understand that they are being hounded out by a group of foreign cache approvers who (should) have nothing to do with approving UK caches and who (should) have nothing to do with moderating the UK forum?

At least part of this statement is incorrect. A site-wide moderator has every right to enter the UK forum, or any other forum, and take appropriate action. Keystone Approver (the site-wide moderator) had the responsibility to moderate every forum on this site. That includes German speaking, Off-Topic, Geocaching Topics, Nordic Countries, Arabian, etc. He did his job, now quit chastising him for it.

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Just a suggestion, nothing more:

 

How about if moderators *did* take a regular sabbatical? Herding cats is no easy task; many previous mods/reviewers have done a sterling job but I can easily see that it must get too much (especially as services are volunteered most generously and without call for thanks).

 

Perhaps a 6-month rota of pairs of mods might work? Or maybe just a 1 month break for regular mods over winter, with a couple of well-trained stand-ins?

 

Whaddy'll reckon? It's gotta be better than losing mods!

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At least part of this statement is incorrect. A site-wide moderator has every right to enter the UK forum, or any other forum, and take appropriate action. Keystone Approver (the site-wide moderator) had the responsibility to moderate every forum on this site. That includes German speaking, Off-Topic, Geocaching Topics, Nordic Countries, Arabian, etc. He did his job, now quit chastising him for it.

Spot the bold keyword here: appropriate

 

IMHO he went too far, and judging by your forum title, I suspect you're a little biased.

Edited by rutson
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At least part of this statement is incorrect. A site-wide moderator has every right to enter the UK forum, or any other forum, and take appropriate action. Keystone Approver (the site-wide moderator) had the responsibility to moderate every forum on this site. That includes German speaking, Off-Topic, Geocaching Topics, Nordic Countries, Arabian, etc. He did his job, now quit chastising him for it.

You quite obviously don't understand the point that Teasel was making. Try to keep up to speed if you are going to post on this issue.

 

And your Avatar title is not helpful and not funny.

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At least part of this statement is incorrect. A site-wide moderator has every right to enter the UK forum, or any other forum, and take appropriate action. Keystone Approver (the site-wide moderator) had the responsibility to moderate every forum on this site. That includes German speaking, Off-Topic, Geocaching Topics, Nordic Countries, Arabian, etc. He did his job, now quit chastising him for it.

Spot the bold keyword here: appropriate

 

IMHO he went too far, and judging by your forum title, I suspect you're a little biased.

Today is Keystone Approver day in the Off-Topic forum (which I moderate, by the way). My avatar and title are a show of support, in the hopes that he too will not quit.

 

I would like to add that I think L&E have done a fine job both as cache reviewers and moderators. It is very rare for most other mods to even peek into this forum (United Kingdom). I have in the past, and L&E have always seemed to have a good handle on things. I fully support them taking a short break from their duties and coming back refreshed if they choose to do so. Same thing with Keystone Approver.

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Don’t get me wrong I mean the running away bit not anything else.

The other thing is I am sure you do represent GC.com but you have done sterling work for us and are our contact with them.

I have not agreed with everything you have done but you both have seemed to be fair I have no complaints.

Ok what’s done is done. Big shame. I have been a member for quite some time and you two are with out doubt the best mods we have had mostly left well alone and stepped in only when necessary. Although I have had only one or two caches approved by you it seems that you do this very well according to others.

I am still sorry but I have never been a quitter and cannot understand people who do, I do hope you have very very good reasons for this action.

Anyway good luck for the future and I do hope we get on with the new mods and approvers as do you.

You in the same boat as us now,

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At least part of this statement is incorrect. A site-wide moderator has every right to enter the UK forum, or any other forum, and take appropriate action. Keystone Approver (the site-wide moderator) had the responsibility to moderate every forum on this site. That includes German speaking, Off-Topic, Geocaching Topics, Nordic Countries, Arabian, etc. He did his job, now quit chastising him for it.

Spot the bold keyword here: appropriate

 

IMHO he went too far, and judging by your forum title, I suspect you're a little biased.

Sorry, forgot to comment on the bolded word.

 

What is appropriate action? Depends on the situation. This is the hardest part of moderating a forum. I know I've made mistakes. I've even changed my mind after handing out a punishment. The user and I started a dialogue through PM's and I realized where he was coming from. I changed my mind and removed the punishment. I can try harder next time to do it better.

 

That's what has to be done here. The people that have made mistakes have started a dialogue. It is in private, the way it should be. Screaming about it in the forums is not going to solve it. It's going to take time. In a week or two, when everyone's emotions have calmed, things may be better. I hope that by "better" it includes Eckington, Lactodorum, and Keystone voluntarily restated to their duties. It's up to them, and I'm not going to push them to do so, nor am I going to push for them to resolve it under my timeline. That would be selfish.

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C'mon guys, enough prodding and poking already. Wouldn't it be a better idea for all concerned to learn from our collective mistakes and try to come to a solution together? Surely we can all see that some sort of plan needs to be worked on to help the continued enjoyment of this hobby/sport/past-time that we all enjoy?

 

Team-effort needn't be restricted to just a small part of the team, y'know. We're all in this together. :huh:

 

As many people say: it's just a hunt for a lunch-box, why get angry with each other? Save it for your boss!

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I can't argue with most of that. Forum moderation is hard work, I speak from bitter experience.

 

However, I can think of no circumstance where the appropriate thing to do is to come into a forum where you are not known and close threads with no explanation then disappear and hide.

 

At long last we are actually getting an acknowledgement that mistakes were made. Why the heck that'd couldn't have happened at the back end of last week escapes me.

 

I'm sorry, but your forum title is just taking the mickey, big style. I've looked in your off-topic forum and I have no idea what your explanation means. If your intention is to wind us all up, then you're very likely to suceed. If not, your taste is questionable.

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You Couple Of Quitters!

 

Come on man, at least keep the job going until we've found someone else....leaving the whole of the UK caching community in disarray just because you got a bit of a hard time is shocking.

 

Put your toys back in the pram boys and think of what you have worked for since the last big bang!

 

If you want to quit then so be it, but least you could do is wait for someone else! You'll be helping yourselves aswell as all your "friends"

 

Thats my view anyway.

 

We are our own community! we need you.

 

Thanks for all the hard work anyway.

 

Pid :huh:

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I'm sorry, but your forum title is just taking the mickey, big style. I've looked in your off-topic forum and I have no idea what your explanation means. If your intention is to wind us all up, then you're very likely to suceed. If not, your taste is questionable.

I'm sorry too, about the forum title. I did not mean to offend and have changed it to something (hopefully) less controversial

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Claming there is a truth out there that will exonerate everyone involved, and yet people are leaving anyway is all well and good if the site is trusted.

 

No matter how you slice it because the truth isn't out there and the full story is untold, people are still going to have to pick sides. That's what happens when you leave people hanging. It's human nature.

 

If everyone is so blameless and nobody wants to point fingers then you would think they could get together and develop a joint statement that covers everything from A to Z that is so long and boring we all lose interest. If this site chooses to inadequately address the issue, GC.com is the only real loser. Sometimes all you can do is minimize the losses. This looks like one of those times.

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Oooh, this makes me so angry! :):):laughing::wub::)

 

Dave and Peter have the full support of the UK community and are doing a sterling job. Caches get approved at lightning speed and this is (was!) a happier place to be than I can ever remember it. They are masters both of the arts of diplomacy, and of herding cats! And, from what I gather, they also have the support of the team at Groundspeak.

 

So, are we to understand that they are being hounded out by a group of foreign cache approvers who (should) have nothing to do with approving UK caches and who (should) have nothing to do with moderating the UK forum?

 

That really does leave a sour taste in my mouth.

 

I do hope that TPTB at Groundspeak will quietly bang some heads together behind the scenes and will hold the post of UK moderator vacant until they have again regained control of their volunteer staff's behaviour and can persuade both Peter and Dave to take their rightful jobs back.

Just about sums it up

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If everyone is so blameless and nobody wants to point fingers then you would think they could get together and develop a joint statement that covers everything from A to Z that is so long and boring we all lose interest.

I think that is what happened with my little speech above! :wub::laughing:

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However, I can think of no circumstance where the appropriate thing to do is to come into a forum where you are not known and close threads with no explanation then disappear and hide.

Nope - nether can I. Perhaps the great truth which is hidden forom us all explains it. But I doubt it - rudeness is rudness IMHO and politness costs nothing.

 

Chris

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I don't know you, Peter & Dave, but it's always a sad day when someone who serves the community feels that the time is right to go. I've been in that position and it's no fun making the determination. Ultimately, do what is right for your blood pressure and noone elses. If that means just taking a breather, good for you and the UK region. If it means grabbing some fresh air and not get carpal tunnel from reviewing & moderating, also good for you and the UK region.

 

Good luck with whatever the two of you do, and don't forget to go a-cachin'!

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Please - will everyone change their minds!!!

 

History is history - but the loss of experienced volunteers is calamitous, whether in the UK or in the US - or wherever.

 

We've had the argument - now's the time to BE FRIENDS, Kiss and Make Up, and then find another tupperware box - ammo can or dadgum 35mm film canister.

 

The water - errr to start an inappropriate metaphor - has flowed under the bridge - and now we must just shrug our shoulders and carry on. Its history - but tomorrow's geocaches - now thats far more interesting!

 

we love you all - ( well most of the time )

 

xxx :wub::laughing:

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Breaking silence for the first time since all this cr@p took place I have to express my complete support for everything that Ian/Teasel said.

 

I am gutted that you guys feel that this is the only course of action but support you in your decision as you have supported us all over the past week or so and the past couple of years.

 

At the moment I am finding it very hard to supress my anger :laughing:

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Keystone Approver (the site-wide moderator) had the responsibility to moderate every forum on this site. [snip] He did his job, now quit chastising him for it.

I'm sorry, that wasn't my intention. While I believe KA was unwise to chose a rather aggressive course of action without first exhausting the diplomatic options, he appears always to have been open and visible. The same, we are told, is apparently not true of others.

 

In their resignation post, L&E said "it has become apparent from comments made to us that we no longer have the respect and confidence of the wider reviewer community". That suggested to me that there was more to their decision than Keystone's initial actions, but rather that others were also involved who, unlike KA, do not have a mandate to meddle in UK affairs.

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I am gutted that you guys feel that this is the only course of action but support you in your decision as you have supported us all over the past week or so and the past couple of years.

I have to agree, Thanks guys - your work has been appreciated.

 

Surely at this point Groundspeak need to look at this whole situation and try to moderate - doing nothing hoping the ill feeling will go away is not the solution.

 

Martin

Edited by one4zorro
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:laughing: Perhaps we could persuade them otherwise at the late xmas bash at Winchester! It should have all calmed down by then!!!!!!!!!

 

If not we can all show are appreciation for what they have done over the past couple of years.

It would be good if as many people as possible could come and support them.

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I have an awful lot of sympathy for any moderator.From what I have read it would seem the word "blame"has put in an appearance but surely mistakes are part of the human condition.Thanks greatly to Hydee for her intervention which has obviously helped the situation. To mtn man and ka you have monumental voluntary tasks that you perform. It would be as great a loss for either to be made to feel they had to resign or to be used as whipping posts as seems to have happened to our two moderators.I hope that behind the scenes a great deal is happening to sort the obvious problems out.As for the "TRUTH" in this case it is not important.What I want to do now is be able to move on with the thought that lessons have been learnt on both sides and our two ex? moderators are given a true choice in becoming beasts of burden again or not.Thanks and good luck to moderators everywhere :):):wub: And to Hydee :laughing::)

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That is one of our tasks, certainly not the most appreciated of them.

Is there some level on which you think you're helping?

The post that I quoted had taken one of my statements out of context. Isn't this whole mess about trying to set the record straight?

At this point, I think the whole mess is about getting over it and getting on with it. Regardless, there is no context in which the notion that your job is to "hand out punishment" wouldn't make me want to box your ears.

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That is one of our tasks, certainly not the most appreciated of them.

Is there some level on which you think you're helping?

The post that I quoted had taken one of my statements out of context. Isn't this whole mess about trying to set the record straight?

At this point, I think the whole mess is about getting over it and getting on with it. Regardless, there is no context in which the notion that your job is to "hand out punishment" wouldn't make me want to box your ears.

Forum moderators are charged with keeping the peace in the forums. Sometimes that means we must hand out a punishment for those violating forum guidelines. It's certainly not our favorite task. You'd probably be surprised at how little we actually do it.

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Forum moderators are charged with keeping the peace in the forums. Sometimes that means we must hand out a punishment for those violating forum guidelines. It's certainly not our favorite task. You'd probably be surprised at how little we actually do it.

Pff! Is there some turnip truck in the vicinity you assume I've fallen off of? I know what moderators do. To no-one's surprise, I've been on the receiving end of it a few times. If I had to pick a thread in which talk of moderators "handing out punishment" was likely to run counter to keeping the peace, this would be the one.

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That is one of our tasks, certainly not the most appreciated of them.

Is there some level on which you think you're helping?

The post that I quoted had taken one of my statements out of context. Isn't this whole mess about trying to set the record straight?

Sorry you are right - I did take your reference to punishment out of context. But as others have picked up on it I still think it is an unfortunate word to use in the context of this whole topic when most of us seek peace. Mind you I am not sure what word I would have used as "applied sanction" sounds too political.

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That is one of our tasks, certainly not the most appreciated of them.

Is there some level on which you think you're helping?

The post that I quoted had taken one of my statements out of context. Isn't this whole mess about trying to set the record straight?

Sorry you are right - I did take your reference to punishment out of context. But as others have picked up on it I still think it is an unfortunate word to use in the context of this whole topic when most of us seek peace. Mind you I am not sure what word I would have used as "applied sanction" sounds too political.

My apologies for the language gap. I hadn't intended on writing a dissertaion on moderator's duties. As such, I was only mentioning the relevant section and used a poor choice of words.

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You take a two week sabatical an come back to this.. :laughing:

 

May I suggest that L n E take a two week sabatical and please please please return to duty.. other wise the pints will dry up :wub:

 

These two guys brought a level of moderation and approving to geocacheing that should be used as an indicator of how these two tasks SHOULD be done. They are leaders in this.

 

Their passing will be sorely missed.

 

Is there anyone capable of replacing them? Both previous approvers and especially L n E learned the though experiance all the quirks of the trade. And now with so many more quaint quirks which make us so British we have a void to fill, very big void.

 

They are sure gonna be one hard act to follow, so I will ask once again my friends. Please reconsider this. But I will understand whole heartedly if you do not.

 

Best regards Dave n Pete

 

Moss T

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However, I can think of no circumstance where the appropriate thing to do is to come into a forum where you are not known and close threads with no explanation then disappear and hide.

Nope - nether can I. Perhaps the great truth which is hidden forom us all explains it. But I doubt it - rudeness is rudness IMHO and politness costs nothing.

 

Chris

Please allow me to respond to this with quoting myself:

 

I do not believe in 'airing dirty laundry' I will not point blame to anyone.

 

I will say that there have been a series of mistakes made in this situation, many of them out of a quest for doing what is right. At no point did anyone, myself or one of the volunteers, act in a way to intentionally cause harm to the sport or the geocaching community.

 

As I stated in another thread earlier today, the volunteer team is asked to do this job to the best of their abilities, and they are trusted to do what they feel is right in each and every situation. They make the decisions based off what they feel is best for the site, the team, the community and the sport. They are not asked to become inhuman, so being human we all make mistakes at times. Considering the number of decisions they are faced with on a daily basis they all do an incredible job as forum moderators and cache reviewers.

 

There is no "great truth" that is hidden from anyone. I have fully admitted there were mistakes made, I have given an explanation, and I am not hiding. If the actions of a volunteer are called into question it is my responsibility to answer to the community. If the community expectation is that the 'dirty details' will be given, they will be disappointed.

 

We try hard to learn from the mistakes we make.

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