An Important Message From Lactodorum And Eckington

1.7k · January 11, 2005

There is no "great truth" that is hidden from anyone. I have fully admitted there were mistakes made....

As one of the people who were put on moderation, that is all I wanted to hear. Issue closed.

Now, get us our moderators back. Pretty please.

1.3k · January 11, 2005

Peter and Dave

Martin and I join the many others in saying that you will be sorely missed. Your help in approving caches in a timely matter and moderating this forum (through good times and bad) has always been appreciated by the many Uk cachers who have used them. Your understanding of cultural differences has allowed you two to be among the best reviewers and moderators that I have seen.

It is sad that the flack that you have taken has come from other reviewers/moderators and that we are not privvy to such so that we could stand behind /beside you and let them know how much we support you. But there again we will respect your decision (even if you change your minds )

I join the many others in offering you a pint if/when you are in the area. Dave I know you have a DNF you need to rectify and its only 500 yds from the house so stop by.

Lynn

January 11, 2005

Very sad to see you both go - hope it's not permanent!

You've done an excellent job, and have always dealt fairly and sympathetically with cache approvals and other matters.

Have a break, go caching, enjoy your 'retirement' - you're always welcome up in this neck of the woods.

Best Wishes

2.2k · January 12, 2005

Peter and Dave

Martin and I join the many others in saying that you will be sorely missed. Your help in approving caches in a timely matter and moderating this forum (through good times and bad) has always been appreciated by the many Uk cachers who have used them. Your understanding of cultural differences has allowed you two to be among the best reviewers and moderators that I have seen.

It is sad that the flack that you have taken has come from other reviewers/moderators and that we are not privvy to such so that we could stand behind /beside you and let them know how much we support you. But there again we will respect your decision (even if you change your minds )

I join the many others in offering you a pint if/when you are in the area. Dave I know you have a DNF you need to rectify and its only 500 yds from the house so stop by.

Lynn

i am sorry to see any moderator or approver leave. what about the flak that keystone has received? spamming a moderator with pm's and email that insult them is no solution. keystone approver is a gentleman who cares about geocaching, the caching community, and everyone affected by this. he did not deserve the hate and vile that he received. you have hurt someone who does not deserve it. your approvers do not deserve the flak they have gotten. everyone on both sides of "the pond" should get over it and get on with their lives.

2.3k · January 12, 2005

keystone approver is a gentleman who cares about geocaching, the caching community, and everyone affected by this. he did not deserve the hate and vile that he received.

Sorry that has happened but please don't air your view about that here - take it up PM, by email with the individuals who did it not with the forum who have stuck to the 'guidelines' in adversity.

Si

P.S. You are welcome at my cache any time you like

Edited January 12, 2005 by The Hokesters

January 12, 2005

Excuse me, but this is an open forum and anyone may post here. Just as people from this forum have posted elsewhere. There is no invisible wall between this forum, and all the Geocaching community forums. They may be crossed at will, and views, even tho different from your own, may be posted.

Thank you for your time

lulu

2.2k · January 12, 2005

keystone approver is a gentleman who cares about geocaching, the caching community, and everyone affected by this. he did not deserve the hate and vile that he received.

Sorry that has happened but please don't air your view about that here - take it up PM, by email with the individuals who did it not with the forum who have stuck to the 'guidelines' in adversity.

Si

P.S. You are welcome at my cache any time you like

excuse me! if you are referring to me, i am doing nothing more than you are doing. supporting a moderator that i admire and care about. not being privy to any more information than you are, all i can work with is what i read. even your moderators said that they were asleep and keystone was only doing his job. that little bit of info has been ignored here. i will air my view here, just like everyone else. geocaching is a global community. something that seems to have been forgotten lately.

2.3k · January 12, 2005

Thanks for your thanks

It ain't helping though is it?

Oh bugger broke my silence for the third time in three days!

2.2k · January 12, 2005

Thanks for your thanks

It ain't helping though is it?

Oh bugger broke my silence for the third time in three days!

the "poor, poor pitiful me" tactics don't seem to be helping you either.

1.7k · January 12, 2005

the "poor, poor pitiful me" tactics don't seem to be helping you either.

Or you. Let's have a group hug. ((((((((((KA))))))))))

Edited January 12, 2005 by SlytherinAlex

2.3k · January 12, 2005

OK I am very sorry for Keystone Approver as I think I said about 5 posts earlier. Private PMs and emails, etc are deplorable but bleating about how he has been treated in this particular thread is OFF TOPIC!

Sorry for shouting - I am usually so quiet!

January 12, 2005

Uperdooper ..are you trying to be helpful or just flaming for the fun of it ?

January 12, 2005

Is telling someone to "please don't air your view about that here" helping then?

Like I said.......this is an OPEN forum.

While I appreciate the gravity of losing two well liked reviewer/moderators, there are many facets to this saga.....some known and most unknown. All around it is sad for the GLOBAL GEOCACHING COMMUNITY, and trying to seperate everything down to different factions within this global community does a diservice to everyone.

lulu

January 12, 2005

Thanks for your thanks

It ain't helping though is it?

Oh bugger broke my silence for the third time in three days!

the "poor, poor pitiful me" tactics don't seem to be helping you either.

Why don't you just stop here, and head back to your own forum?

Your presence here only serves to antagonise others. Like many other forum users who are taking the time to venture over into the UK forums to rub everyone's nose in what happened, note that your presence is only making matters worse. You played no part in the events of the past week.

So why not leave things be, leave The Hokesters and everyone else you'd like to start a fight with alone, and ignore this forum.

Moaning about messages the Keystone Approver received ring hollow around here until apologies from all parties concerned are received. If this conflict is to be resolved then everyone has to stick to the issues at hand. Hijacking a tread about the resignation of the two UK admins doesn't help. You'll also have to avoid a win-lose situation, as in "My bloke took more flak than yours".

2.3k · January 12, 2005

Yes Lulu - I hear what you are saying 'completely' but surely you can see that the appeals are for another topic - not this one?

Or am I completely amiss here?

Si...

2.2k · January 12, 2005

Thanks for your thanks

It ain't helping though is it?

Oh bugger broke my silence for the third time in three days!

the "poor, poor pitiful me" tactics don't seem to be helping you either.

Why don't you just stop here, and head back to your own forum?

Your presence here only serves to antagonise others. Like many other forum users who are taking the time to venture over into the UK forums to rub everyone's nose in what happened, note that your presence is only making matters worse. You played no part in the events of the past week.

So why not leave things be, leave The Hokesters and everyone else you'd like to start a fight with alone, and ignore this forum.

Moaning about messages the Keystone Approver received ring hollow around here until apologies from all parties concerned are received. If this conflict is to be resolved then everyone has to stick to the issues at hand. Hijacking a tread about the resignation of the two UK admins doesn't help. You'll also have to avoid a win-lose situation, as in "My bloke took more flak than yours".

sheesh! get over yourselves. "own forum"? if everyone on your side of "the pond" thought in the terms of yours and ours, half of the posts "over here" wouldn't happen. we welcome posts from everywhere. face it. everyone got "SCREWED" here. not trying to flame. just trying to point out that injustice happens everywhere. get over it and grow up. i've seen 5 year olds accept cultural differences better than the supposed adults on both sides.

if "our presence" bugs you, then the problem is yours. not ours. we don't tell you to go home.

January 12, 2005

No you are not amiss. I will refrain and retire from posting here, but only because of the negative and harsh post above yours. It seems offering condolences for the lose of two well liked people is off limits here.....how sad.

1.7k · January 12, 2005

if "our presence" bugs you, then the problem is yours. not ours. we don't tell you to go home.

100 cache finds and 7,300 forum posts.....

go find some caches and leave us alone. <_<

January 12, 2005

I was referring to uberdooper's flaming and atagonising of other posters, and not you, woof n lulu.

What I outlined in my post was that there is no point in further compounding the situation by starting arguments with frequent users of this local forum. Of course everybody is welcome, but I would hasten to say that while almost all discussions are open to all. perhaps consider that this one is a little more confined to the two UK admins and the immediate UK/Ireland Community.

Once again (*sighs*) this is not an attack on you, your way of life, your country, your lifestyle, but the attitude you display.

1.7k · January 12, 2005

No you are not amiss. I will refrain and retire from posting here, but only because of the negative and harsh post above yours. It seems offering condolences for the lose of two well liked people is off limits here.....how sad.

30 cache finds and 3332 forum posts. Do me a favour. <_<

You need a hobby. Why not take up geocaching like the rest of us. :huh:

22k · January 12, 2005

Why don't you just stop here, and head back to your own forum?

You and I had this discussion before, didn't we?

The Topic is two reviewers quitting, I can understand posting condolences and good wishes, but when it is being used as a platform for personal opinions and bashing, it opens it to all now doesn’t it? It’s that free speech issue that people are claiming as a personal injustice. Or is that only for a select few?

Note: I did not see your last post until after I posted. I would rather keep the topic on the reviewers, althought it would be very hard for all not to drop in a couple extra cents of opinion. Human nature, but no one should be surprised to a response from anyone after some of the comments I've seen here,

Edited January 12, 2005 by BlueDeuce

January 12, 2005

No you are not amiss. I will refrain and retire from posting here, but only because of the negative and harsh post above yours. It seems offering condolences for the lose of two well liked people is off limits here.....how sad.

30 cache finds and 3332 forum posts. Do me a favour.

You need a hobby. Why not take up geocaching like the rest of us.

Thank You........seeing as my husband has severe artheritis and a heart condition, we cache as we can.......

How very sensitive of you......

buh bye

January 12, 2005

*duplicate post*

Edited January 12, 2005 by klaus23

January 12, 2005

You and I had this discussion before, didn't we?

The Topic is two reviewers quitting, I can understand posting condolences and good wishes, but when it is being used as a platform for personal opinions and bashing, it opens it to all now doesn’t it? It’s that free speech issue that people are claiming as a personal injustice. Or is that only for a select few?

Yes, I recall, and before I start quoting posts, it was about you pushing your opinions on others. By the way, remarks like "... had this discussion before, didn't we?" sound condescending in the extreme.

There's free speech, and then there's not having a clue about the issue at hand, about how people are feeling, and about just waltzing in and having a go at people for no reason at all.

By the way, what exactly prompted you to reply to this thread?

Edited January 12, 2005 by klaus23

1.7k · January 12, 2005

Thank You........seeing as my husband has severe artheritis and a heart condition, we cache as we can.......

How very sensitive of you......

buh bye

5 caches in the past year, and you want to come here and tell us right from wrong.... yeah right.

... group hug again. ((((((( woof n lulu )))))

Just remember, you poke a snake with a stick, it might just bite you in the a$s.

Edited January 12, 2005 by SlytherinAlex

2.2k · January 12, 2005

No you are not amiss. I will refrain and retire from posting here, but only because of the negative and harsh post above yours. It seems offering condolences for the lose of two well liked people is off limits here.....how sad.

30 cache finds and 3332 forum posts. Do me a favour.

You need a hobby. Why not take up geocaching like the rest of us.

does the word "handicapped", "older", "physically challenged" mean anything to you. numbers do not a cacher make. caring, compassion, love for the sport, and it's players are more important than numbers. not everyone is in their 20's and healthy.

22k · January 12, 2005

You and I had this discussion before, didn't we?

The Topic is two reviewers quitting, I can understand posting condolences and good wishes, but when it is being used as a platform for personal opinions and bashing, it opens it to all now doesn’t it? It’s that free speech issue that people are claiming as a personal injustice. Or is that only for a select few?

Yes, I recall, and before I start quoting posts, it was about you pushing your opinions on others. By the way, remarks like "... had this discussion before, didn't we?" sound condescending in the extreme.

There's free speech, and then there's not having a clue about the issue at hand, about how people are feeling, and about just waltzing in and having a go at people for no reason at all.

By the way, what exactly prompted you to reply to this thread?

I updated my posting. Please read it.

PS, I responded for the "Go back to your own forum' comment. I still don't care for it. The forum is for caching in the UK, not just for people who live there.

Edited January 12, 2005 by BlueDeuce

January 12, 2005

the "poor, poor pitiful me" tactics don't seem to be helping you either.

does the word "handicapped", "older", "physically challenged" mean anything to you. numbers do not a cacher make. caring, compassion, love for the sport, and it's players are more important than numbers. not everyone is in their 20's and healthy.

1.7k · January 12, 2005

the "poor, poor pitiful me" tactics don't seem to be helping you either.

does the word "handicapped", "older", "physically challenged" mean anything to you. numbers do not a cacher make. caring, compassion, love for the sport, and it's players are more important than numbers. not everyone is in their 20's and healthy.

Nice one Klaus <_<

January 12, 2005

I updated my posting. Please read it.

Wonderful. So it makes my responses look out of context.

I won't read it, because I know and you know what the discussion was about.

PS, I responded for the "Go back to your own forum' comment. I still don't care for it.

So you don't like it. Well, maybe you've missed the point. Please explain to me, in as many words as you need, and in response to my previous post, why did you respond to this thread, as I asked above? Why are you venturing into these forums?

I did not say "go back to your own forums, everyone". I mean that if you have nothing constructive to say, and are only here to pick a fight, as you seem to be trying to do in reference to an earlier discussion, then there's no point. Give it a few weeks, and things should be back to what they were before it all went haywire last week. Then the normal, witty discussions will resume, and everyone will be welcome, and there'll be no hard feelings. In the meantime, it might be best to exercise restraint.

Edited January 12, 2005 by klaus23

January 12, 2005

Groundspeak Forum Guidelines

Flames will not be tolerated. If you want to praise or criticize, give examples as to why it is good or bad, general attacks on a person or idea will not be tolerated.

Now where are those super moderators when you need them ?

Edited January 12, 2005 by Flyfishermanbob

2.2k · January 12, 2005

"these forums"? sheesh!

22k · January 12, 2005

Wonderful. So it makes my responses look out of context.

You can handle it, I'm sure.

Why am I in this forum? Becasue I have an interest in caches in your area, I have friends in the UK, I have travel bugs in the Uk including a Mark the Cat.

We could go tit-for-tat but My point is that this thread is off topic.

Edit: typo

Edited January 12, 2005 by BlueDeuce

1.7k · January 12, 2005

We could go tit-for-tat but My point is that this thread is off topic.

Yes, it was dragged off topic by uperdooper and lulu, the armchair geocachers.

Anyway, I'm away to bed. I have to get some sleep as I'm going out geocaching in the morning. I've got more cache finds than forum posts. Bad boy. <_<

Edited January 12, 2005 by SlytherinAlex

January 12, 2005

Why am I in this forum? Becasue I have an interest in caches in your area, I have friends in the UK, I have travel bugs in the Uk including a Mark the Cat.

We could go tit-for-tat but My point is that this thread is off topic.

Edit: typo

Good point. But is your interest enough to warrant involvement in the ongoing situation that has been developing since last week? No, I think not.

As I said, the good-natured banter that has defined this forum in the past would be a nice thing to return to, but this will not happen until you give things a rest and wait until the whole conflict has been resolved.

Saying that the thread is off-topic has nothing to do with what we're discussing. And it is only off-topic since uberdooper came in and flamed everybody.

January 12, 2005

And just a short note to say I'm going to bed, as it is rather late. <_<

2.2k · January 12, 2005

We could go tit-for-tat but My point is that this thread is off topic.

Yes, it was dragged off topic by uperdooper and lulu, the armchair geocachers.

Anyway, I'm away to bed. I have to get some sleep as I'm going out geocaching in the morning. I've got more cache finds than forum post. Bad boy.

"armchair geocachers"? i have lupus. not a global catastrophe, but it limits my caching. you should be ashamed for your comments. i am sure that at least 1 cacher in the Uk has the same problem. i hope you have more compassion for them than you do for other handicapped cachers. it pales in comparison to the the problems in asia, but it doesn't mean that we deserve your contempt. lulu and her husband have arthritis. if you have a cure for that we would like to know about it. it must not exist in the UK.

January 12, 2005

Congratulations BlueDeuce ;uperdooper;lulu; You must take great pride in knowing that the UK community will respect your views as ambassadors of USA …..

It’s a difficult time for all , and your help and understanding will go a long way in bridging any misunderstandings between the communities. Sad that it took this unfortunate incident for you to show an interest in Geocaching in the UK and Eire.

Hope that we can see you here again.

Regards

FFB

2.2k · January 12, 2005

Why am I in this forum? Becasue I have an interest in caches in your area, I have friends in the UK, I have travel bugs in the Uk including a Mark the Cat.

We could go tit-for-tat but My point is that this thread is off topic.

Edit: typo

Good point. But is your interest enough to warrant involvement in the ongoing situation that has been developing since last week? No, I think not.

As I said, the good-natured banter that has defined this forum in the past would be a nice thing to return to, but this will not happen until you give things a rest and wait until the whole conflict has been resolved.

Saying that the thread is off-topic has nothing to do with what we're discussing. And it is only off-topic since uberdooper came in and flamed everybody.

i flamed no one! you have insulted all challenged cachers everywhere. shame.

January 12, 2005

---

Edited January 12, 2005 by Slytherin

2.2k · January 12, 2005

---

even "malfoy" would have more understanding and compassion than some of the people here.

January 12, 2005

i flamed no one! you have insulted all challenged cachers everywhere. shame.

Did I? If you feel I did, I apologise in advance. But unless you can quote something I said where I insulted physically challenged cachers, I'm afraid I can't see your point. Your attitude displayed, and what you have said in here however, has nothing to do with disabilities, be it your own, or others, and this is what I referred to when I quoted the "poor poor pitiful me"* quote.

I'm with Flyfishermanbob on this one. He summed things up well.

*Warren Zevon would not be happy right now... <_<

edit: typing

Edited January 12, 2005 by klaus23

22k · January 12, 2005

is your interest enough to warrant involvement in the ongoing situation that has been developing since last week?

Sorry for the delay - bad internet connection.

Is my interest enough to warrant involvement? Unfortunately yes.

The fallout is unfortunate as well.

============

As for being an ambassador, if I was in your country as an ambassador it might be different.

Right now I’m a cacher in the gc.com forums. So are you.

Edited January 12, 2005 by BlueDeuce

7.2k · January 12, 2005

Let's take a break here. Some of you might regret some of the things you are saying tomorrow. Easy does it, OK?

We need to let some of the wounds heal, not pour salt on them.

2.3k · January 12, 2005

Let's take a break here. Some of you might regret some of the things you are saying tomorrow. Easy does it, OK?

We need to let some of the wounds heal, not pour salt on them.

Exactly.

I have been checking this particular forum out for a few days now, ever since 'the incident'. There has been much mud slung around in this thread recently, from BOTH sides. None of it is helping.

I think it is very regrettable that the two approvers/mods for the UK have decided to step down. I hope they reconsider and go on doing the apparently good job they have been doing. Now, I say apparently because I have no firsthand knowledge of it but I do see the high regard in which they are held by people who do.

It is also with a heavy heart that I see Keystone Approver is stepping aside. I have met and cached with him and I daresay that anyone here would agree, if they did the same, that he is a good person. I also know from seeing him doing his duties on this site that he is a very good moderator. Others may of course have a different opinion, but that is understandable. People on the receiving end of moderation seldom like it. I believe he is held in the same regard as an approver in his area as the two approvers who are the topic of this thread. That anyone may have sent basically hate mail to him over such a silly thing as finding lunchboxes in the woods is beneath contempt.

Is it not enough that we may lose 3 mods/approvers because of this? How many will it take until it can be deemed 'settled'? I, for one, say stop now and don't take it down the path on which it seems to be sliding. This is not the end of the world. It is a game. We find lunchboxes/tupperware in the woods.

2.2k · January 12, 2005

this is going way out of hand. too many decisions being made that'll be very hard to back down from.

i wasn't involved in this at all but from my understanding it all started with the tsumani appeal sorrt of....

can we all just remember that people are suffering and dying still while this argument rages on. this is a hobby/sport not the end of the world, please all have some perspective. let the subject die. all sit down and have a drink or three of your favourite tipple, then try to let feelings settle.

i'm not saying anyone overreacted or that what was done was correct, but it's in the past. if we carry on like this we'll regret it later.

just my 2p worth.

January 12, 2005

Back at the ranch, thanks to both of you for all the hard work and effort you have put in over the years, and the help you have given me on and off on setting up new caches. I hope you will return after a short break. I wish you well whichever happens. MaxKim. <_<

1.7k · January 12, 2005

Let's take a break here. Some of you might regret some of the things you are saying tomorrow. Easy does it, OK?

We need to let some of the wounds heal, not pour salt on them.

Oh So true Thank you mtn-man for mirroring my exact views. Can we let all this drop? PLEASE <_<

1.4k · January 12, 2005

Let's take a break here. Some of you might regret some of the things you are saying tomorrow. Easy does it, OK?

We need to let some of the wounds heal, not pour salt on them.

Oh So true Thank you mtn-man for mirroring my exact views. Can we let all this drop? PLEASE

Supurb Moderation from both of you - well done:)

2.2k · January 12, 2005

Let's take a break here. Some of you might regret some of the things you are saying tomorrow. Easy does it, OK?

We need to let some of the wounds heal, not pour salt on them.

Oh So true Thank you mtn-man for mirroring my exact views. Can we let all this drop? PLEASE

Supurb Moderation from both of you - well done:)

Yep, now can we get back on Topic.

I for one do not want to see any of the moderators go. Mistakes have been made now it's time to move on.

An Important Message From Lactodorum And Eckington

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