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stugotz

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There are people who really can't justify spending $2.50 a month on pleasure. It just isn't in the budget. Believe it or not, there are people who make $100 or $200 LESS than that "really" need to get by on each month. Every decision to spend money is a matter of choosing what will be given up.

My wife and I fall into this group. We were given a membership as a gift from a very generous cacher that I met here in the forums. If it were not for this persons kindness we still would not be charter members simply because we can not afford it.

This thread specifically said over 200 finds, and that puts these people in the top 2-3 percentile of all the geocachers in the world.

 

That means you are probably also around the top few percentile in the resources you use. It also means your probably caching fairly regular. Trust me, I know all about being so poor ramen noodles are a special treat, but when money was that tight I certainly couldnt have afford to go geocaching. Not with the price of gas and batteries. The membership is less then the price of one gallon of gas and 2 AA batteries a month, if you can afford to go caching every week you can afford to help cover the costs of providing those caches for you to find.

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There are people who really can't justify spending $2.50 a month on pleasure. It just isn't in the budget. Believe it or not, there are people who make $100 or $200 LESS than that "really" need to get by on each month. Every decision to spend money is a matter of choosing what will be given up.

My wife and I fall into this group. We were given a membership as a gift from a very generous cacher that I met here in the forums. If it were not for this persons kindness we still would not be charter members simply because we can not afford it.

This thread specifically said over 200 finds, and that puts these people in the top 2-3 percentile of all the geocachers in the world.

 

That means you are probably also around the top few percentile in the resources you use. It also means your probably caching fairly regular. Trust me, I know all about being so poor ramen noodles are a special treat, but when money was that tight I certainly couldnt have afford to go geocaching. Not with the price of gas and batteries. The membership is less then the price of one gallon of gas and 2 AA batteries a month, if you can afford to go caching every week you can afford to help cover the costs of providing those caches for you to find.

I have over 200 finds and felt I fit the group being asked. We often carpool or walk or ride bikes to off set the cost of gas. Most caches we find are on the way to someplace we need to go anyway. As for the cost of batteries for the GPSr, that is where most, if not all, of our pocket change goes. That is our luxury money. Other caching cost mentioned before? Computer: $25 at a yardsale; GPSr: a gift; Internet access: paid through my work.

 

Edit: Spelling

Edited by cache_us_if_you_can
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As I see it, Geocaching.com is a business – this is quite “OK’ with me. They have kindly opted to provide a service with a range of options that I appreciate. And unlike many businesses today, they give you choices. If Geocaching.com were to tell me it was mandatory to pay a fee to participate or that they would go out of business without this fee, I would certainly pay a reasonable fee. Until then, I really do appreciate their business approach of providing optional services for a fee - an option I choose not to exercise at this time for whatever reason.

 

I do appreciate fellow cachers pointing out the benefits of membership from time-to-time. The site does a good job of doing just that and I believe the “business” should be the primary driver for this initiative.

 

Thanks Geocaching.com for providing a service that allows such diverse feedback.

 

– Miles Stone

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Thanks MOPAR for putting it out there in plain English...you hit the proverbial nail on the head...

 

CUIYC...what MOPAR is saying is that if you can afford to pay for the gas to drive 990.1 miles for 3 caches...you can probably afford a few $$ a month to support the site.

 

There is enough "smoke" out there in the world we live in...I simply prefer the honest truth. Those that have said that if its free they'll take it...fine. I don't like it...but at least its the truth...

 

Those that have said they would continue caching without GC.com...good luck...right now, there simply isn't another site that has the quantity and quality of info out there to sustain geocaching on the same level...

 

In fact, I would like to see those folks take a stand and go without using GC.com as a data/info source for a month...see how easy or difficult it would be. I've never tried...so it may be a breeze...but I would bet not...

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I was a non-paying member earlier this year. Geocaching was a new sport to me, having started in April of this year. I didn't even notice that being a premium member was an option for quite some time. I am now a premium member and do not wish to recount or relive the circumstances surrounding that switch. However, I do want to say this:

 

Everyone is entitled to their choice to pay or not pay. Everyone has their reasons for both, which are no one's business. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about why people make the choices they do. When some people choose to express those opinions, they sometimes make offensive comments, sometimes based on assumptions. I'm not sure what they hope to accomplish by this, but let me tell you, based on personal experience, they do NOTHING to cast a favorable light on geocachers in general and themselves in particular (not that they would care anyway). And they don't make the non-paying members want to become paying members.

 

If you have a point to make, make it, but please stop trying to shame people into paying. It's not attractive, and won't accomplish anything except to make the person making the comments feel better.

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$100-$500 on a GPSr

$500 on gas going from cache to cache this year (what I spent at least)

$500-$1500 for your computer.

$10-50/month for your internet connection.

 

BUT you can't afford $30/year to support the site that makes it all possible???????????

 

My point is that if you are so poor that you can't afford $30/year, you can't afford to geocache in the 1st place.

 

So if you don't want to pay the $30/year because you are a tightwad, fine. But don't lie about it by saying something ridiculous like "I can't afford it."

well , some people forget , There are geocachers out there that have children with there own accounts , so should you buy a premium membership for ever family member ? That would make one not be able to afford it . Or how about the person that has an account and takes along there friends they let them use there gps , they pay for the gas etc , because there friends simply cannot afford the cost. We know a couple of people in this situation and are happy to take them with us and give them access to a computer so they may log there caches. Its wrong to assume that anyone is lying about there financial status .

 

And we just gave one of our "friends" a premium membership for christmas.

 

Star

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Here are my final thoughts on this...

 

1. Theres too much political correctness out there and I am tired of people beating around the bush on this subject. There are simply people out there that are too cheap to pay for something that they can get for free. They choose to use a service that others pay for. Some folks admit that...others make statements that probably are not true...and, for once, I want to put my .02 out there...

 

2. MOPAR said it best...Gas + batteries = more than $2.50 a month. For that handful of folks who tag along with others because they don't have a car...can't afford the gas, etc...I am glad you are able to experience geocaching.

 

3. Check out some of the profile pages out there of folks who say they can't afford it...great pictures of beautiful, scenic cache locations that some of these folks have visited. You'll also see top of the line 4X4's decked out with all the accessories. I assume they borrowed the Jeep to get there...camera, film...got free developing...borrowed a scanner...use the local library or work for internet access...or maybe they borrowed a digital camera...so the pics could be posted .

 

If are one of those folks who choose to let everyone else pay (when you really can)...fine...just tell it like it is...but please don't insult my intelligence by saying you can't afford it.

 

I know that these comments do not apply to all non-paying cachers out there. But definitely to some...

 

I'd rather people just put the truth out there...

 

Signed...

 

Married father of three who chooses to use $30 a year to support a service that we use regularly for wholesome entertainment...

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5) Want to but can't for some reason.

6) Added up the value I get and it fell short of the fee.

I fall into the above 2 reasons. My wife is a tightwad (who luckily doesn't read the forums, or I'd be dead <_< ) I'd probably buy a premium membership if it was just me. I must say, however, that there's very little benefit to being a premium member, other than warm fuzzies. If Groundspeak would give me something to work with maybe I could con her into it. I suppose I could take a stand (THATS IT, honey! we're purchasing a premium membership or else!) but one thing I learned in 13 years of marriage is to pick your battles. tink tink

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Because I'm just starting (haven't even received my GPS in the mail yet) and I don't know if I will like it enough to commit precious monetary resources to it. If I find that I like it all that much, I will donate some $$, though not necessarily become a member.

 

I haven't looked into what is required to become a Premium Member yet, but I assume it is some set monetary donation.

 

I don't really like that idea, though I can see how it might be the necessary method.

 

What I do like is a big PayPal link and a kind message requesting that everyone donate what they can afford. Everyone can afford *something*. A dollar every other month from EVERYONE who posts here would go a long way...

 

Jeremy

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What I do like is a big PayPal link and a kind message requesting that everyone donate what they can afford. Everyone can afford *something*. A dollar every other month from EVERYONE who posts here would go a long way...

Tried that in the beginning. Didn't work. And the "dude, you could totally make bank on providing advertising" doesn't work either (and frankly, I don't like advertising more than most - unless it benefits the geocaching masses).

 

This is an interesting thread. I'd like to know what the threshold for folks in the reasoning behind "weighed options and it ain't worth it" need to become Premium Members. Please no "if you changed x policy" because we don't change our principles for monetary gain. More like "If you provided x feature I would join."

 

Granted, we provide a whole heck of a lot for free, but contributing members who place well thought out caches are just as valuable as folks who provide monetary support for the site, in my book.

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I didn't get a premium membership for the longest time, mostly because I don't like using my credit card for just about anything. I also dislike paypal (glad you don't have to use paypal anymore....)

I wonder if selling memberships through various places that sell geocaching merchandise would help? Maybe provide a little piece of card board with an activation code, and maybe a discounted travel bug as kind of a 'starter package'. Could then be easier to give it as a gift as well....

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I just like the word "premium". It implies that you have purchased something that is regarded to be the best. Kinda like how you buy premium hot dogs and they're bigger...but they're really just full of a bit more pseudo-meat that isn't good for you anyway. But dang, that premium packaging makes me feel at ease.

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wow <------- that says I'm a premium member, yet I can't access any of the perks?

 

I figure at $30 a head Groundspeak could reply within 72 hours - my opinion

Are you *sure* you can't access them?

As for the delay, I understand that non-paypal payments aren't processed automatically, and are somewhat new so there may be a few bugs left in the system.

 

Actually when it comes right down to it, the most probable reason for me eventually getting my premium membership was that everyone else I spoke to had one (even those with only 12 or so finds).

 

Anyways, thought of another thing that might help. Charging in local currency. I know it sounds silly, but I'm more likely to buy something if I know exactly how many Canadian Dollars its going to cost me, and I don't have to convert from USD first.

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wow <------- that says I'm a premium member, yet I can't access any of the perks?

What perks can't you access? Also, try logging out and back in to see if it sets you straight.

 

Email gets responded to pretty quickly. If it doesn't I need to know about it. Provide the tracking number of your email inquiry.

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Well, I believe that I more than get my membership fees back in the PQs and the extra caches and the extra mapping benifits but I also believe that when something works, a thank you is in order and $2.50 a month is a small thank you. I also paid for my GSAK after trying it and finding that it was really useful even when it was offered free and my cachemate. If the waitress serving your dinner really went all out to make it nice, you leave a tip and these services make my caching even better so I believe, even though I am far from rich, that a thank you is in order.

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I'm not a premium member because I refuse to utilize paypal. I've had too many people I know have their accounts frozen because Paypal didn't like them for whatever reason. If there is a way to use a CC without going through paypal I want to know about it. Otherwise it's just too much trouble.

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To those who love to geocache.

 

I became a Premium Member within two months of finding my first cache 18 months ago... and I did it to support those who make it possible for me to enjoy this wonderful game/hobby/sport.

 

I believe there are some who cannot afford the 8.2 cents/day to become a PM... and I believe those who say they don’t need/want/appreciate or use the PM services... or feel these services are worth the fee.

However, remember that the FREE STUFF does cost money... and a lot of it.

 

Being poor is not a crime... but being ungrateful is not nice.

 

If I used these free services and didn’t support those who made this all possible... I would be very humble and appreciative.

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If there is a way to use a CC without going through paypal I want to know about it.  Otherwise it's just too much trouble.

We always accepted checks, but more recently we have started to accept credit card payments directly through the http://store.Groundspeak.com web site. The link is also available from the subscribe page.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/subscribe/

Edited by Jeremy
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C'mon. Membership for a whole year costs about as much as a tank of gas.

Someone who can afford a GPS, not to mention afford driving an SUV, and who is using the site's features for free, is a parasite.

 

I can imagine many explanations. The only valid one is not being able to pay, for some technical reason, from outside the US.

Edited by bugel-shunra
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If GC.com goes under due to lack of finances I really don't care. There are enough people caching these days for another entity to set up a site and make money through voluntary purchase of goods rather than asking for people to pay a membership fee.

 

Of course you're entitled to your feelings but thankfully most folks don't feel that way.

Sure, if they go under there could be numerous sites started with similar features but what scares me is how it would be ran & how many pop-up's & redirects we'd have to go through. $30 is a bargain to not have to put up with that crap.

 

Groundspeak offers voluntary purchase also but I seriously doubt it makes a dent in operating cost.

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I guess I can reply as a Premium Member, at least until tomorrow when my subscription expires. I sent my $30.00 through PayPal on Dec 18th, and PayPal says Geocaching received the $$, but no subscription renewal number so far. As kayakingtwilbecks said, I figure 72 hours (or in my case 312 hours) is long enough to wait for my renewal. Is there something going on that I don't know about?

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I guess I can reply as a Premium Member, at least until tomorrow when my subscription expires. I sent my $30.00 through PayPal on Dec 18th, and PayPal says Geocaching received the $$, but no subscription renewal number so far.

Again, please post it in the appropriate forum. This topic is asking about why folks don't become premium members. If you have a question about your membership it fits in the Geocaching.com discussion forum in its own topic.

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I'm not a paying member and I never will be. I'm not interested in any of the premium benefits. If geocaching.com shut down their servers tomorrow, I'd still be out tramping around happily in the woods with my GPS and camera.

I'm mostly interested in finding caches that require at least a one mile walk one way into the woods, anything else is just boring. There ain't many caches like that around here.(people complain about my hide because they had to walk a mile to reach it) So i choose not to pay for something i don't enjoy all that much.

 

I realize that I'm in the minority here . Just my honest response to a simple question.

FWIW, there seem to be a lot of caches you would approve of in Texas. Maybe it is your location, not this site that is the problem.

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Tracy and I signed on for a premium membership to support the site. Back when the idea of a "premium membership" started, TPTB (Jeremy) took a lot of heat. People were afraid that Geocaching was becoming commercial. Since Geocaching was really starting to take off, but still slow near us, we would roadtrip to Geocache. Since we were already spending $100-200/trip, we were easily able to sacrifice one trip to support the site- the extra features are just a plus in my mind.

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As I said before - I had some problems getting my premium membership setup, but I think I really need to go back and say not only why I chose to pay for a premium membership, but also why I am glad that I did so.

 

Websites and any sort of organized activities will inevitably have difficulties and problems. This website as well as GC.com run quite smoothly in comparison. If my $30 can help keep that process going thanI am very glad to contribute.

 

Other reasons . . . Downloading to my palm pilot . . . the cool "Premium Member" next to my name . . . the feeling of knowing that I chose, of my own free will, to pay and support my habit.

 

It's cheaper than a good bottle of Single Malt Scotch.

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I became a "Premium Member" to help/support GC.com. Since I use their services exclusively, I wanted to help offset their costs by subscribing. Call it premium membership, dues, tipping.. whatever. It's a great service being provided to our community and it certainly is worth all of the $30 I paid. When my subscription is up next year, I'll have another round!

I am proud to be a Premium Member of GC.com and not the mooch.

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Paid our premium membership the second day we started Geocaching. We didn’t even know there were benefits for premium membership. Jeremy made a point about there are other ways to support Geocaching with out paying the membership, but there are still people with a significant amount of finds with out being premium members, who also have no hides.

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I have just got an etrex to try the hobby out and also to use in other hobbies of mine, While i am trying the hobby i thought a premium monthly membership via paypal would let me try all the features and help me to decide on whether it is for me or not.

 

If i was the only one paying for membership and others were getting the same level of service for free it wouldnt bother me in the slightest, As long as i am getting satisfaction from what i pay for i am happy and thats all that matters.

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I am not a Premium member because:

 

I don't own a Palm Pilot and don't need to download files. Period.

What else would I really benefit from if I had a Premium Membership?

 

The only thing I really miss was the scrolling map, so I could search along a highway route for caches, but paying $30 a year just so I could do that again doesn't justify the cost, in my opinion.

 

I recently ordered some goodies from the Groundspeak store. Interesting how that type of contribution wasn't mentioned in this thread as supporting the sport.

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This thread was about people with 200 or more finds. That is who I am talking about. To find 200 or more caches usually takes quite a bit of gas money. If someone has only spent $7.53 on geocaching and has 5 finds and they say that they can't afford the $30, I can accept that but those are not the people that we are talking about in this thread. The person you describe above probably has less than 20 finds.

Could also be lots of cache density and LOTS of walking, or maybe you really like your bicycle. However, just because its possiable that it could be done without lots of gas, doesn't mean it.

But if it is or not doesn't matter, you can't make someone who is not a paid member join (for whatever reason), join.

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I finally bought Premium membership because I wanted to go paperless. I also belong to Yahoo, for free, but have not decided to "support" them with "feature" payments as I don't need extra email or my own web site memory.

 

Groundspeak is a business. It decided like Yahoo on a two-tier membership system. I assume for business reasons too. For those who "urge" others to pay, stop trying to be Jeremy's [/i]consigliere. There's nothing stopping Groundspeak from charging everyone, or an introductory fee, or whatever. Since Groundspeak does not publish their Profit and Loss statement, onlly Jeremy knows the profits or losses from fees, t-shirts and ads from mfrs.

 

Those who go out of their way to embarrass non-paying members to become paying members are off base and insulting unless you happen to own Groundspeak stock. It's unfortunate that Jeremy allows personal attacks to go on in this topic where other topics are shut down for these kind of attacks. Notwithstanding what he says, there's a perception of benefit for Groundspeak by using some members to embarrass others to pay fees that acrue to Groundspeak. He has allowed this internecine warfare to go on for years ever since the two-tier system was instituted.

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I'll tell you why I'm not a Premium Member:

 

* I'm frustrated with watching my local government outlaw it at every opportunity.

* I'm tired of finding crappy caches (bad containers, bad locations, little effort, etc).

* I hate the fact that I can't download maps into my 60C from my Mac.

* Two words: Golf. Balls.

 

Oh, wait a second.. I am a Premium Member. In that case, here's why:

 

* Members Only Caches

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i became a premium member within a month of joining. i don't use any of the extras except for the off topic forums and i rarely use that. :D off topic didn't exist when i joined. i did it to help. if anyone can make a buck off it, fine. more power to them. i wish i had thought about it first, but i didn't. more power to those who did. :D

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I think he's referring to the continuing general insults which come in the form of judging other cachers, by calling them cheap or moochers. I know you already addressed that issue, yet it continues. I think that's what he means. Sorry if I misinterpreted that.

 

I have a question........ I play jigsaw puzzles at Shockwave.com. They have a free one every day. If you want more puzzles than that, or ones with special features, you have to pay to play those. I don't want to spend any more time per day doing puzzles other than just one, so for me, there is no need to pay anything. They provide the freebie as just that. Free. I wonder if anyone else here plays online games for free, or uses any other website for entertainment for free.

 

If you want to support the website by becoming a premium member, then that's great, but can we just stop with the criticism of those that choose not to? It's getting tiresome.

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I think he's referring to the continuing general insults which come in the form of judging other cachers, by calling them cheap or moochers. I know you already addressed that issue, yet it continues. I think that's what he means. Sorry if I misinterpreted that.

If that's the reference, it isn't a personal insult but a general opinion about users who don't become Premium Members. I haven't seen anyone post a direct insult about someone else.

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We became premium members soon after we started geocaching just because we wanted to support the site, Geocaching is the best form of entertainment we have found for our family. We have made more friends through geocaching than we ever thought possible. Thanks for a great service.

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