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stugotz
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I am just asking this question for my own curiosity.

 

I was wondering why cachers with more then 200 finds (totally arbitrary number I thought I would use) would choose not to get a premium membership? As that is an arbitrary number anyone with any number of finds should feel free to respond.

 

I do fully understand and totally agree that this should be optional. I’m not about to go into the benefits of becoming a Premium Member, that can be found on this website, in the discussions here, or when ever you log another find.

 

I am not judging anyone nor am I trying to convince anyone to buy a Premium Membership. Maybe some of your concerns will come to light and be rectified and you will choose to become a Premium Member.

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I'm a Charter member. I've never used any of the perks that are offered to members, I just want to support the site. However as you pointed out...don't judge. There are people out there that would love to be members but just can't afford it.

 

There are also those out there that disagree with the way the site is run, so they boycot it. Not sure what they accomplish...but it is their right.

 

El Diablo

Edited by El Diablo
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For me this is just one of my hobbies. I dont feel the need to spend the money (that I don't have at this time) right now when I can get all of the information I need for an ocasional cache with a basic membership. I plan to get a full membership someday but, right now I don't need all of the features a Premium Membership can bring.

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I did join after only about 25 finds. I enjoy many of the benifits without even being aware that some are extras. Commenting on the off topic forum, getting TB's, doing member caches without really knowing that they are special. I enjoy the pocket quaries and I am sure that I enjoy many other items. I joined because I found it fun and wanted to enjoy it to the fullest, much like some who like apple pie will add the ice cream to make it even more enjoyable.

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I am a premium member, so I can't speak directly to your question well. I do know that I became a premium member immediately upon discovering the site because I felt I wanted to support it and could afford it. Much later, I finally used pocket queries and now could also not live without those.

 

I do know of some people who are not premium members and their reasons.

 

(1) A family on a budget who has no need for premium features, but much need to pinch pennies.

 

(2) A family who simply feels that they do not want to pay for their hobby until or unless they need the premium features (so far they don't).

 

I also know of some who were not premium members and became so:

 

(1) A person who simply never noticed or thought about it and upon learning of it joined.

 

(2) People who never saw a need for premium features until they started traveling to cache and/or learned more about how pocket queries worked and then wanted to use those.

 

(3) People who joined in order to read the off-topic forum.

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As a non-member newbie, here's my reasons for not being a member:

 

I intend to 'try the "game" on for size' for a period of time before I dip into my Paypal account;

 

My GPS is older and doesn't connect directly to my computer, so I don't see much advantage in downloading software;

 

I don't see any real advantage in membership over non-membership. If I decide to continue playing the game, I will support it by getting a premium membership. [Not because I expect it to be of extra value to me, but simply to support the game]

 

Can't think of any other reasons right now...

 

Rat

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I am a premium member, so I can't speak directly to your question well. I do know that I became a premium member immediately upon discovering the site because I felt I wanted to support it and could afford it. Much later, I finally used pocket queries and now could also not live without those.

 

I do know of some people who are not premium members and their reasons.

 

(1) A family on a budget who has no need for premium features, but much need to pinch pennies.

 

(2) A family who simply feels that they do not want to pay for their hobby until or unless they need the premium features (so far they don't).

 

I also know of some who were not premium members and became so:

 

(1) A person who simply never noticed or thought about it and upon learning of it joined.

 

(2) People who never saw a need for premium features until they started traveling to cache and/or learned more about how pocket queries worked and then wanted to use those.

 

(3) People who joined in order to read the off-topic forum.

I did the same thing as CarleenP. signed up on the website, and payed for the premium mebership my first day. It was months before I ever downloaded a PQ, but I knew I was doing my part. I also like member's only caches.

 

I'm not an elitist, It makes me feel better that I chipped in $30.00 to enjoy this hobby.

 

If your too broke, and don't need the added benefits of the premium membership, I have no problem with that.

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I finally am! Thanks Santa. I just never felt that I had the extra money. It always seemed like the money shoud be going somewhere else, you know, bills and such.

 

I first joined GeoCaching.com in May of this year. I've had a blast and wanted to become a paying member just to support the site. Finally did.

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I became a premium member to support the site more than anything else. I think it's great that the hobby doesn't require membership to enjoy and am fortunate enough that I can pay and help support the site to keep it running.

 

It is an unfortunate economic reality that bandwidth and site maintenance are not free, but I also realize that not everyone is going to have the extra cash. This site does a good job of blending free and pay-for benefits and shoudl be commended.

 

Hopefully, we all choose to support the site -- either econonmically or otherwise (by placing caches, introducing others to the hobby, etc, etc)

 

One feature I would like to see as a premium member would be the ability to place my new caches on a members-only initial set-up and then have it automatically switch to a wide-open cache. This would give members the first chance to find the caches and then open it up to the general population. Maybe this is something that is already possible?

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I have been thinking about becoming a member for a while actually, and will probably do so soon. However...

 

One thing that has prevented me thus far and that really irks me is the MO caches. It's the exclusion of others that just doesn't sit right. For one, I don't like the idea of excluding people just because they can't afford the fee. Although it hasn't been about the money for Miles and I, I can understand that it IS about the money for some. ;)

 

The other thing is that everyone always says they want to "support the site". How do you know you are really supporting the site? Are TPTB sitting back and getting rich over this? If so, kudos to them, (yeah for free enterprise) but that doesn't mean I have to line their pockets. It's a business, and if I CHOOSE to buy the services, then I will. But the attitude that we are "keeping it alive" via joining bothers me (without numbers to back it up). I would really like to see some numbers as to how much my membership really helps improve the site, that's all. What percentage is reinvested, etc? Perhaps I just missed this information somewhere?

 

The reason that I will probably join at this point is that now that we are near 300, the services may benefit us, not to "support it" so to speak. I look at it as a business, that's all. If I want to "support" something, I have a few favorite charities. Maybe I am getting hung up on the words, but again, I have no information telling me how the money is used.

~katydid

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I agree -- I should have used the phrase "I choose to purchase a membership to ensure that the business of www.geocaching.com generates revenue to remain viable so that others and I may continue to partake of the services that it provides." (I'm not being sarcastic or anything, I hear what you are saying -- I do not see the site as a charity -- I see it as a business and should not have used the word support without clarification)

 

Business or charity -- revenues are required through some form. I notice few advertisements on the site, so I cannot imagine they are making millions. Not that it would matter to me -- they deserve to!

 

As for MO caches - I have a *slight* problem with them because they are exclusionary by nature -- but that is up to the cache owner to decide. It's like bringing beer to a party: you can drink it alone (boring), you can share with friends (nice), you can give beer to all! (please invite me!)

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One thing that has prevented me thus far and that really irks me is the MO caches. It's the exclusion of others that just doesn't sit right. For one, I don't like the idea of excluding people just because they can't afford the fee. Although it hasn't been about the money for Miles and I, I can understand that it IS about the money for some.

 

Some areas have big problems with cache vandals or maggots as we call them. By limiting the caches to members only, we can track who looks at and who logs caches. Although this isn't foolproof, it does reduce the number of caches vandalized. Sometimes vandals are premium members also and this method does not work. Some hiders invest large amounts of money on the caches they have made. I know of one micro my friend has that cost him over $80.00 to put together. It's too secret to mention on this thread though. By making the cache hard to find (puzzle), and a members only cache, he reduces the chance that his cache will turn up missing.

 

Sometimes, premium members want to "give back" to other premium members by hiding members only caches. To some non- premium members, this is interpreted as exclusionary. It's the right of the cache placer to determine who can find his caches. My argument to those that think this is exclusionary, is to pay dues for one month ($3.00) and go and find these caches.

 

The other thing is that everyone always says they want to "support the site". How do you know you are really supporting the site? Are TPTB sitting back and getting rich over this? If so, kudos to them, (yeah for free enterprise) but that doesn't mean I have to line their pockets. It's a business, and if I CHOOSE to buy the services, then I will. But the attitude that we are "keeping it alive" via joining bothers me (without numbers to back it up). I would really like to see some numbers as to how much my membership really helps improve the site, that's all. What percentage is reinvested, etc? Perhaps I just missed this information somewhere?

 

Every time someone hides a cache for our enjoyment, it costs money to host that cache page (memory, bandwith, etc).

 

Think of the picture gallery that we can fill with geocaching pictures. This bandwith has to be payed for by someone.

 

The reason that I will probably join at this point is that now that we are near 300, the services may benefit us, not to "support it" so to speak. I look at it as a business, that's all. If I want to "support" something, I have a few favorite charities. Maybe I am getting hung up on the words, but again, I have no information telling me how the money is used.

 

I don't worry about how the money is used, as long as the site works good for me. As long as I can go geocaching, I'm happy that I payed my $30.00. I have "good faith" that the money is spent well.

Edited by Kit Fox
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There are people out there that would love to be members but just can't afford it.

  I would very much like to be a Premium member, but my own financial situation is very bad at this time.  I suppose I could find $30 to squeeze out for a membership if I really tried, but this is, after all, just a hobby — just a luxury — and I have much more pressing demands on what money I have.

 

  I'm not sure I'd gain much from the Premium membership, but I do get a great deal of enjoyment out o fthis hobby, and would very much like to do what I can to support it.

 

 

As for MO caches - I have a *slight* problem with them because they are exclusionary by nature -- but that is up to the cache owner to decide.

  If MO caches made up a very substantial portion, I'd be bothered.  As it is, there are more than five thousands caches in my general area, and as far as I know, maybe three or four that are MO.  I can live with that.  The one thing that does bother me is that the owner of one of these MO caches recently used it to sequester a pair of travel bugs (not belonging to him) that bear clues to a puzzle cache (not his).  Not a direct problem for me, as I've already found both those bugs, and collected the clues therefrom (I have yet to go after the cache, but I'll get to that…); but it did seem to me like very bad form to use a MO cache as he did to interfere with someone else's puzzle cache.

 

 

  I may have an unexepected windfall coming soon.  Not enough to make a sizable dent in my general financial troubles, but perhaps if it comes, I'll queeze out the $30 for a Premium membership.

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I always find this topic interesting...it seems to pop up every now and then and I am always amazed at the variety of reasons given for why people choose to not support the site...and also the politically correct nature behind a lot of the comments...

 

Here are my thoughts (that I have felt for some time now)...sure to be unpopular with some...but most likely more honest than most...

 

- I appreciate RK's honesty...seemed to tell it like it is...

 

- "Can't afford it"...??...come on...$2.50 a month...(There I said it...come on...be real...be honest)

 

- There are simply some folks out there that will always take something for nothing...

 

- NO GC.com...geocaching would be a fraction of what it is today.

 

- Focus on the service you get...Jeremy's bank balance is not my concern as long as I value the service/access provided...and I do.

 

- A lot of the folks who literally live on this site (look at the post numbers)...and aren't supporters...and bash GC.com at every opportunity (the very hand that feeds them geocaching data, info, forum access, etc.) amaze me. Don't like TPTB...get off. Then see how the other sites serve your needs. Do they have major forums to spend countless hours?? Probably not on the scale of GC.com.

 

There it is...after months of reading a lot of comments on this subject, I had to get a few thoughts off my chest...

 

D-cachers

Oklahoma

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I was wondering why cachers with more then 200 finds (totally arbitrary number I thought I would use) would choose not to get a premium membership?

 

Because it costs money that some people might want to spend elsewhere?

 

Why do you care?

Why the agressive tone from you and some others? He made it very clear that he was just curious, and was not being confrontational. :rolleyes:

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I'm not a paying member and I never will be. I'm not interested in any of the premium benefits. If geocaching.com shut down their servers tomorrow, I'd still be out tramping around happily in the woods with my GPS and camera.

I'm mostly interested in finding caches that require at least a one mile walk one way into the woods, anything else is just boring. There ain't many caches like that around here.(people complain about my hide because they had to walk a mile to reach it) So i choose not to pay for something i don't enjoy all that much.

 

I realize that I'm in the minority here . Just my honest response to a simple question.

Edited by Larry H
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One feature I would like to see as a premium member would be the ability to place my new caches on a members-only initial set-up and then have it automatically switch to a wide-open cache. This would give members the first chance to find the caches and then open it up to the general population. Maybe this is something that is already possible?

There isn't (as far as I know) an automatic feature, but you can do this manually. When you've given it enough time as a MOC, just edit the cache page and change it.

 

I'm a charter member, and I did so to support the site - i.e. give money to the site operator so that it will continue to supply me with the info to hunt caches. What's wrong with that? There are a lot of orginizations that you pay money to belong to that you don't have to, just so you can enjoy their activities. I can think of the Mountaineer's - I'm a member so I can go climbing (just one activity they have), but I don't NEED the Mountaineer's to go climbing. I can get the info on climbs anywhere. But do people whine about them charging a membership fee? No! And most all their activities are member only.

 

A side comment about MOC's: There are many cache that are exclusionary - SCUBA caches, rock climbing caches (though, there was that one group who used a balloon...) & such - why aren't you whining about those also? "I don't want to join because they have SCUBA caches that are exclusionary!" Sounds silly to me.

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Remembering back...I realized that I became a Charter Member before ever doing a cache! Since then my reasons are many, and my belief in, and use of the Premium site and features, are much stronger and fact based. Yes, I love being able to load 500 area caches with today's data in a few seconds, but I'd still support the site without any of those type of perks.

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One thing that has prevented me thus far and that really irks me is the MO caches.  It's the exclusion of others that just doesn't sit right.  For one, I don't like the idea of excluding people just because they can't afford the fee.

 

I think this is called "Life 101"

 

Doesn't just about everything in life exclude you if you can't afford it?

 

Less than 1% of the people using this site can't afford it.

 

Here are some of the costs of geocaching:

 

$100-$500 on a GPSr

$500 on gas going from cache to cache this year (what I spent at least)

$500-$1500 for your computer.

$10-50/month for your internet connection.

 

BUT you can't afford $30/year to support the site that makes it all possible???????????

 

My point is that if you are so poor that you can't afford $30/year, you can't afford to geocache in the 1st place.

 

So if you don't want to pay the $30/year because you are a tightwad, fine. But don't lie about it by saying something ridiculous like "I can't afford it."

Edited by GrnXnham
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Hey now, wait a minute. It is entirely possible for someone to not be able to a afford membership. (I don't buy the MOC 'exclusionary' bit though).

 

It is entirely possible for someone to receive a GPS for a present, hand-me-down or otherwise, be too young to work, be OUT of work for extended periods, whatever.

 

I do not know anyone who bought a PC and internet connection ONLY to go geocaching. These things have much more value outside geocaching, and thus generally a justifiable expense.

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I have to say it. I have resisted so far, because I know that you won't really understand, but I can't keep turning a blind eye...

 

Every time this thread turns up, some folks say something like "Don't tell me you can't afford $2.50 a month---give up a Coke or two"

 

There are people who really can't justify spending $2.50 a month on pleasure. It just isn't in the budget. Believe it or not, there are people who make $100 or $200 LESS than that "really" need to get by on each month. Every decision to spend money is a matter of choosing what will be given up.

 

The car needs a repair? Well you have to have the car to get to work to pay the rent, so no lunch this month--or next.

 

The kids needs new shoes? Well, there goes that new coat that you needed.

 

It isn't a matter of just giving up something they don't need, because they aren't even getting the basics covered. They don't buy soft drinks, they don't smoke cigarettes, and they don't waste money on on frivolous things because they just don't have it to waste.

 

And before you say, well someone like that won't have a GPSr anyway---true, maybe, unless they already had it and then misfortune fell on them (Like the major breadwinner in the family walked out, or lost their job). Or as others have pointed out, you don't really need a GPSr to hunt geocaches and the library has free Internet.

 

Every time I read that, I cringe, thinking that somewhere out there is some poor young mother, divorced from her husband, and living with her sister, using Sis's computer to hunt up a few geocaches to hunt down on her way to the college classes that she is taking in the evening after she works two shifts in the local diner---Who reads that she is a loser with a capitol L painted on her forhead because she can't cough up that measley amount of cash so she can run PQs.

 

Hey, I am not there now, thank goodness, but except for a few of the details, that could have been me at one time. Trust me, there are times when you just can't afford even $2.50 no matter how much you would like to be able to do so. Yeah, premium services are a bargain if you can afford it---and if you can afford it be thankful, just please don't sneer at those who can't.

 

Thank you. Off the soapbox now. I feel better.

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So if you don't want to pay the $30/year because you are a tightwad, fine. But don't lie about it by saying something ridiculous like "I can't afford it."

Well now. This thread is about to go down in flames I suspect.

 

If you had just called ME a liar. I'd be ripping you a new one right about now. <_<

 

This thread has outlived it's usefulness, I think. :huh:

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We have been geocaching for nearly 4 years now, and are not Premium Members.

 

We prefer to channel our money and support for the hobby in different ways.

 

As a pioneering team of the sport, and the leading cache "placers" in Australia, our money has gone toward placement and filling of our over 120 caches. These caches are for others to hunt down and enjoy. In financiial terms, we estimate we have spent over $1500 on cache items in the years we have been caching. This suppoprts geocaching.com just as much as membership fees.

 

In Australia, their seems to be very few usable benefits of Premium Membership anyway.

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One thing that has prevented me thus far and that really irks me is the MO caches.  It's the exclusion of others that just doesn't sit right.  For one, I don't like the idea of excluding people just because they can't afford the fee.

 

I think this is called "Life 101"

 

Doesn't just about everything in life exclude you if you can't afford it?

 

Less than 1% of the people using this site can't afford it.

 

Here are some of the costs of geocaching:

 

$100-$500 on a GPSr

$500 on gas going from cache to cache this year (what I spent at least)

$500-$1500 for your computer.

$10-50/month for your internet connection.

 

BUT you can't afford $30/year to support the site that makes it all possible???????????

 

My point is that if you are so poor that you can't afford $30/year, you can't afford to geocache in the 1st place.

 

So if you don't want to pay the $30/year because you are a tightwad, fine. But don't lie about it by saying something ridiculous like "I can't afford it."

Directed to no one in particular. Just a reminder.

 

Respect: Respect the guidelines for forum usage, and site usage. Respect Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, yourself, fellow community members, and guests on these boards. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they deserve the same respect.

 

Foul Language and obscene images will not be tolerated. This site is family friendly, and all posts and posters must respect the integrity of the site.

 

Personal Attacks and Flames will not be tolerated. If you want to praise or criticize, give examples as to why it is good or bad, general attacks on a person or idea will not be tolerated.

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Every time I read that, I cringe, thinking that somewhere out there is some poor young mother, divorced from her husband, and living with her sister, using Sis's computer to hunt up a few geocaches to hunt down on her way to the college classes that she is taking in the evening after she works two shifts in the local diner---Who reads that she is a loser with a capitol L painted on her forhead because she can't cough up that measley amount of cash so she can run PQs.

 

This thread was about people with 200 or more finds. That is who I am talking about. To find 200 or more caches usually takes quite a bit of gas money. If someone has only spent $7.53 on geocaching and has 5 finds and they say that they can't afford the $30, I can accept that but those are not the people that we are talking about in this thread. The person you describe above probably has less than 20 finds.

Edited by GrnXnham
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So if you don't want to pay the $30/year because you are a tightwad, fine. But don't lie about it by saying something ridiculous like "I can't afford it."

 

I can afford it, but I am a tightwad.

 

I see no personal value in the stuff I get for paying and am quite content with what is offered to all for free.

 

Forget about whether I have 2 finds or 2,000, it makes no difference to me. The service is free. I like what is offered for free, but I could care less about what is offered for $30/yr.

 

If GC.com goes under due to lack of finances I really don't care. There are enough people caching these days for another entity to set up a site and make money through voluntary purchase of goods rather than asking for people to pay a membership fee.

 

I can understand those who find a sense of community based around GC.com wanting to support it, but I don't find that sense of community so don't really care about it.

 

Just my 2 cents.

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There are people who really can't justify spending $2.50 a month on pleasure. It just isn't in the budget. Believe it or not, there are people who make $100 or $200 LESS than that "really" need to get by on each month. Every decision to spend money is a matter of choosing what will be given up.

My wife and I fall into this group. We were given a membership as a gift from a very generous cacher that I met here in the forums. If it were not for this persons kindness we still would not be charter members simply because we can not afford it.

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